156 réponses à ce sujet

[Shock n Awe]

I've seen them played well and I've seen them played badly (like the one who died every 20 seconds and still charged groups of enemies just to die again, or the drell vanguard who did the same in the exact same game).

Myself and the other infiltrator were still beneficiaries by way that they drew some aggro, but they would die within a minute of each round (and the other infiltrator continuously revived them, presumably for the medal and so they could continue drawing aggro).

This was Gold; I realized I didn't mention that.  A Drell and Krogan Vanguard who were constantly charging into enemies and dieing, just to do it again the instant they got revived/a new wave started.

Modifié par Shock n Awe, 23 avril 2012 - 07:23 .

[Count Dante]

Dookie no jutsu wrote...

HellbirdIV wrote...

I did just fine as Kroguard on Gold by charging in and using melee combined with my Claymore for anyone I couldn't be arsed to walk up to. Barrier up all the time, using Charge whenever it's off cooldown and I pretty much never die.

Yeah, again, on Gold. I was surprised, because the other Krogan are terrible on Gold if you try to stick to melee and I expected to get my tail handed to me.

Vanguards can be absolutely devastating if you know how to use them, which I do not. It does not matter what difficulty you play. I have seen this on bronze, silver, and gold.

Agree. A solo of Bronze and Silver is easy with KV. I dont even use the KV on bronze fun games. On silver I can solo the 8-10 waves depending on intel, hacking etc, which is not always possible, at least for me.

The survivablility of KV on all levels is the best of any class/race. Even more so with some basic awareness and knowledge of the mobs. There are times where I will pull off a fight and be shocked that I even lived. This is assuming you dont spec for melee (outside of Martial Artist) and run 1600/1600 and 50% increase to shields is a must.

[Count Dante]

tvih wrote...

hippojoe wrote...
no.  you charge, heavy mele pyro twice, its dead, charge is back up, repeat till all pyros are dead, then repeat on the primes

With the listed enemies, you charge, heavy melee twice, and you're dead from the other 4 guys melting your face with impunity. I don't get people saying things like being unkillable during heavy melee animation - that's not at all my experience, I've died during Krogan heavy melee animations many times. Three pyros I could attack survive just fine, but unless the Primes are AFK, not with them in the mix. Similarly I can attack a big pile of Cannibal and come through just fine, but there's a limit to everything. Especially with Rage not working right.

There are frames of immunity while you are in motion. Doesnt mean you are unkillable, but it does mean you can stagger, in this case Pyros since that is the mob focus of discussion at this point.

[jotun04]

Well, sometimes you charge what looks like 1 or 2 enemies just for the fun of it, but then 3 more fly up from below, or come from around a corner, and you're kind of screwed. As a krogan you can't roll around to get away, so trying to stay and fight, as futile as it is, is often the only choice.

[LeandroBraz]

I predicted the creation of this topic weeks before:
http://social.biowar.../index/11244642


but I'm a little disappointed, I thought would have a lot more, but I wasn't counting on batarians melee skills..

[humes spork]

Just remember, if a vanguard of any kind is out there drawing fire and you're standing there watching him die, you're the problem.

[Count Dante]

jotun04 wrote...

Well, sometimes you charge what looks like 1 or 2 enemies just for the fun of it, but then 3 more fly up from below, or come from around a corner, and you're kind of screwed. As a krogan you can't roll around to get away, so trying to stay and fight, as futile as it is, is often the only choice.

Dont underestimate the run of a Krogan. Sure, he moves like he is in cement, but the run is fast and if done early enough (or as I do right after a charge for the extra shields), most times the shield and health will hold for you to retreat. Although it did take some getting used to to charge just to retreat.

Also, it is not like I dont ever die. I do. But more times then not, if I do die, it was unavoidable and just a back spawn as you mention, or I did something stupid. Stupidity is usually the cause of my deaths though

[Shock n Awe]

humes spork wrote...

Just remember, if a vanguard of any kind is out there drawing fire and you're standing there watching him die, you're the problem.

Like the time when they're all the way across the map from the entire team, in a building (so walls prevent you from providing covering fire), with a horde of enemies between them and every other member of the team.  It's the rest of the team's fault for not having Biotic Charge, and it's not the vanguard's fault for being across the map in a location where the rest of the team can't cover him and might not even be able get to him quick enough for a revive.

Modifié par Shock n Awe, 23 avril 2012 - 07:21 .

[Wesus]

Ain't that the life of a krogan?

[Homey C-Dawg]

Ever since I unlocked the justicar I loooove playing with krogans, especially battlemasters. I follow them into the fray, throw up my bubble, and we proceed to wreck whatever is nearby in a fury of flying bodies.

[Count Dante]

humes spork wrote...

Just remember, if a vanguard of any kind is out there drawing fire and you're standing there watching him die, you're the problem.

Very true as well. As I have mentioned in other KV threads, I play like the squad bodyguard in Gold. I can pull off crazy rezzes and can keep a ton of mobs busy. But the support fire/abilities is also needed. Give me a Stasis, Overload, Reave, Stagger, or a healing-ish geth bot and you will be shocked what the squad can live through with the Krogan leading the way.

[Count Dante]

Shock n Awe wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Just remember, if a vanguard of any kind is out there drawing fire and you're standing there watching him die, you're the problem.

Like the time when they're all the way across the map from the entire team, in a building (so walls prevent you from providing covering fire), with a horde of enemies between them and every other member of the team.  It's the rest of the team's fault for not having Biotic Charge, and it's not the vanguard's fault for being across the map in a location where the rest of the team can't cover him and might not even be able get to him quick enough for a revive.

Nope, that is a crappy vanguard. As I mentioned earlier, if I make a stupid charge into death (which happens to even real good vanguards), it is my responsibility to rez myself and get myself out of the problem. If I cant, I have failed and will feel shame.

But this situation is not special to Vanguards...I have seen a TON of other class/races get into situations they have no reason being in. Soldiers that get greedy without cover, batarians melee'ing because they think it is sexy, infilators who dont know when to break of the scope, etc.

[Count Dante]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Ever since I unlocked the justicar I loooove playing with krogans, especially battlemasters. I follow them into the fray, throw up my bubble, and we proceed to wreck whatever is nearby in a fury of flying bodies.

PREACH IT! You have NO idea how strong KV is with Reave/Statis/Bubble behind him until you have seen it. It is just blue bomb madness. I LOVE when a biotic is right behind me and playing that role. It is insane!

[Shock n Awe]

Count Dante wrote...

Shock n Awe wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Just remember, if a vanguard of any kind is out there drawing fire and you're standing there watching him die, you're the problem.

Like the time when they're all the way across the map from the entire team, in a building (so walls prevent you from providing covering fire), with a horde of enemies between them and every other member of the team.  It's the rest of the team's fault for not having Biotic Charge, and it's not the vanguard's fault for being across the map in a location where the rest of the team can't cover him and might not even be able get to him quick enough for a revive.

Nope, that is a crappy vanguard. As I mentioned earlier, if I make a stupid charge into death (which happens to even real good vanguards), it is my responsibility to rez myself and get myself out of the problem. If I cant, I have failed and will feel shame.

But this situation is not special to Vanguards...I have seen a TON of other class/races get into situations they have no reason being in. Soldiers that get greedy without cover, batarians melee'ing because they think it is sexy, infilators who dont know when to break of the scope, etc.

I've seen the same; my primary classes are Vanguard (I can generally go a Silver game with 0-3 deaths, depending on how many deceptive situations occur), and if I die in a situation that I deem "no hope", I will either medigel ASAP (because I've noticed teammates often brave the stupidest situations to revive me if I so much as attempt to let the area clear a little) or try to blead out ASAP if I'm out of medigel to keep teammates from doing the aforementioned.

As an Infiltrator, I'm constantly zooming in and out and keeping spacial awareness.  Otherwise, on Giant (Gold), I've seen squishy Adepts taking cover in the middle of the map, vanguards into whatever building is on the opposite side, soldiers in the alleys connecting the "upper" and "lower" areas, etc.

One game an Asari Adept was being downed 3 times a round until I not-so-politely sent a message: "Please stay in the ****ing building" [text message on XBox].  After that message, he/she listened, and died one more time in the rest of the 6 rounds (it was a 3 man gold game, someone left early on).

Back to Vanguards though, there are good and bad vanguards.  If a good vanguard (has died few times, has been wiping out the enemies) dies where I can reach him, I'll revive him.  If it's a dangerous situation, I'll try to wait a little bit to see if the enemies clear out, and if they clear out enough or I deem it "safe enough to try" I'll make a go at reviving them.

Modifié par Shock n Awe, 23 avril 2012 - 07:33 .

[Count Dante]

The problem is that when some make mistakes, those mistakes are not as evident and more easy to fix. A guy didnt cover when he should or lost the squad or the like. When a vanguard makes a mistake, it is SO clearly a mistake that people get mad. And rightfully so. When vanguards are more concerned with kill counts and points at the end, they suck harder then others that suck and make these mistakes more often.

I am rarely in the top 2 for Gold pickup runs. And I figure if I am doing my job right, I shouldnt be.

[tvih]

Count Dante wrote...
Not at all. This is very possible and I have done many times. It is important though to do a few things:
1. You have to be spec'd for 2 mobs with charge. This breaks up the fire stream.
2. Make sure you stay close to the Primes
3. Heavy melee on the a pryo (on the third if you can) breaks up the damage even more.
4. Shottie will also help stagger (although not always reliable)

Yes, Charge will break the flamer stream. But when there's three of them, unless it's the perfect positioning, most likely not all within range of the AoE of the Charge (especially once you start meleeing the first one around), then no, it does not break up the fire stream entirely. And even if the Charge catches all three, they won't all stay staggered for as long as it takes to get Charge off cooldown.

And the Primes. Either they do their three-shot blast, which in itself isn't that bad especially given the recharge time - unless of course one shoots first, and the other just as the other one stops which would ruin your day - but it is when combined with the pyros. Or if you "stay close" it's quite easy to get meleed which does nasty damage, but also staggers you (one of the few things that staggers the Kroguard).

Basically, you might survive if Lady Luck as well as the game loves you, pyros decide to roast sausages instead of you, and primes are busy sipping beer. But that's pretty much it. I mean hey, I've seen Asari Adepts survive dashing through the entire enemy team in late waves of the game, entirely in the open. But can't count on that happening consistently - because the next moment a Krogan Sentinel with Rage going can get mowed down by those very same enemies before even properly getting into their line of fire.

[Count Dante]

Man, since this is the thread atm, I wish I had a video to demonstrate exactly how I personally do it. Most of the time, at least 2 of the Pyros are close to either other. I also use 200% and Disciple most times on Gold geth.

And I agree with your points. It is a subtle game to keep the Primes close but without melee (the melee is slow as well and can be avoided with 2 step back from a charge for range idea). And sometimes, you are right, you cant get it lined up as you need in which case I will maintain until I can bug out.

But commonly I will actually charge the Prime with a Pyro close, that staggers them both, 2 steps back, heavy melee the second pyro. As a KV, you can eat most of a third Pyros flame or more ideal, heavy melee the third Pyro. Shottie a pyro, staggers, charge the Prime, staggers a pyro and Prime again, try to heavy melee the third. Sometime I will circle the prime and get off a shot or two of the shottie and the prime will get nothing off while he follows, rinse repeat.

I hope that make sense... so hard to describe without video. And of course, I am not always successful. Most times I am keeping them busy while support comes and it usually not far behind since I am not a charge across map kinda guy unless I am speed travelling for a rez or it is toward the end with trash mobs.

But I will also say that I played (and still do) a lot of solo runs. More so I could learn the limits of the KV, what I can handle, when to run away, frame rates of the insta-killers, etc.

[Delta 57 Dash]

If you are on Silver, and you are playing Kroguard, and if you are using Charge + Melee, and you die... You are either:
A: Bad.
B: Unlucky
C: Lagging

Seriously, you CAN'T DIE as long as you are halfway smart about it. (Yes, I've died on Silver. I was being dumb. Like charging a Brute right after it swings. That's dumb. It will instant kill you.)

Now, on GOLD... Yeah, that Kroguard had better just sit back and wait until they fix Kroguard Rage. THEN he can go ballistic around the map.

[tvih]

Count Dante wrote...

Man, since this is the thread atm, I wish I had a video to demonstrate exactly how I personally do it. Most of the time, at least 2 of the Pyros are close to either other. I also use 200% and Disciple most times on Gold geth.

Well, I'm not saying it's not possible per se even if it might seem so... but it's more about being able to do it with consistency. Personally I'd rather not get into a situation like that to begin with, unless there's no other option.

Personally I roll almost exclusively with a Geth Plasma Shotgun X for additional range and firepower - Disciple does have the stagger but it really lacks damage. I also carry a Geth SMG for when the Shotgun runs out of ammo - after all, with ULM the SMG literally only takes 3% off of cooldown modifier. So as end result my cooldown modifier is 157%. It'd indeed be nicer to be at 200%, but honestly I think in the end having a powerful gun is worth it more.

[TheLostGenius]

If you know what you are doing you can a bit of that, and then tank for the team when it matters. Unfortunately I've easily cleared Reaper Gold with the Kroguard, with the highest score.

[Scorpgul]

Charge only to stagger a cluster of mobs and regen Barrier(if you are talking about Krogan Vanguard) then blast them to bits with gun. I rarely melee on gold only when there are very few enemies left and I know I can activate Rage without dying

[D Wrecks]

 To be fair, it's fun as hell, and as long as you're on Bronze, why not?

[squidney2k1]

People think that's the job of ALL Krogan, not just the Krogan Vanguard.