167 réponses à ce sujet

[tractrpl]

Well you got the smashing part right.

[zarnk567]

babachewie wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Sparse wrote...

Navasha wrote...
But apparently, many people now hate having to "think" about things... just want to be told the story outright.

A good story leaves the audience pondering the themes it covers, it doesn't leave the entire audience trying to work out what actually happened. 

That isn't some new feature of stories, it has always been that way.

tell that to inception 

......Was not really much to work out from that movie ending..... either he is in a dream or not...... Not really at all the same thing we got here, which is speculation for everything and I mean everything..... and we were not given enough information to come to any good conclusions unlike in Inception.... in other words....

Inception ending = good writing  ME3 ending = Bad writing.

I''m not just talking about the ending of inception. Theres plenety more to speculate than just that, buts to much to get into. There is no speculation in ME3 if pay close attention to what happened. If you don't know something its because they probably dont want you to know it yet. Thats not bad writing. 

It is when its the end of a trilogy...... That would be like Tolkien only adding more information when people started complaining about it. and he went "don't worry there is another book coming that fills in all the information you are missing".... except that never happend since Tolkien knew how to not break the Narrative cohesion of the entire story with an ending, and break people's suspesion of dis-belief in the universe he created.  And you are telling me that I bought an incomplete product.... thats not much better.... And there is not enough information about just what each choice is, and how all these things happend during the ending (Normandy on random planet with my crew). Since the Narrative cohesion of the entire story broke down during the ending.

Modifié par zarnk567, 23 avril 2012 - 05:22 .

[Rhazeal]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Navasha wrote...

Never understood this hatred for speculation.

Mordin, one of the better loved characters, in Mass Effect owes everything he is to speculation.

His entire thought process is about speculating until "theory fits evidence".

But apparently, many people now hate having to "think" about things... just want to be told the story outright.

This.  I thought it was very clever that, at the end of the trilogy, we're left here on Earth looking out at the stars and wondering what we'll find - just as we were right at the start when it was all new to us.  I think it's really disappointing that so many BioWare fans need everything spoon fed to them.

Wait a sec... there were fleets of operational ships in orbit around earth in every ending. The final scene was on a different planet. Maybe you need to make sure you actually understand what happened before being condescending towards those that do.

[The Protheans]

zarnk567 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Sparse wrote...

Navasha wrote...
But apparently, many people now hate having to "think" about things... just want to be told the story outright.

A good story leaves the audience pondering the themes it covers, it doesn't leave the entire audience trying to work out what actually happened. 

That isn't some new feature of stories, it has always been that way.

tell that to inception 

......Was not really much to work out from that movie ending..... either he is in a dream or not...... Not really at all the same thing we got here, which is speculation for everything and I mean everything..... and we were not given enough information to come to any good conclusions unlike in Inception.... in other words....

Inception ending = good writing  ME3 ending = Bad writing.

Nothing adds up and you don't get any answers, it  is the complete opposite of what Bioware advertised ME3 as.

[Kunari801]

zarnk567 wrote...

Nope, I just hate the ending cause it broke the narrative cohesion of the entire story and broke people's suspension of dis-belief in the universe. I like endings that make you think, just hate endings that are badly written.  

Totally that!  

[ed87]

Aweus wrote...

You forgot to post the green and blue explosions

[Abreu Road]

But the ending makes you think.

Think about Bioware, at least.

[babachewie]

zarnk567 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Sparse wrote...

Navasha wrote...
But apparently, many people now hate having to "think" about things... just want to be told the story outright.

A good story leaves the audience pondering the themes it covers, it doesn't leave the entire audience trying to work out what actually happened. 

That isn't some new feature of stories, it has always been that way.

tell that to inception 

......Was not really much to work out from that movie ending..... either he is in a dream or not...... Not really at all the same thing we got here, which is speculation for everything and I mean everything..... and we were not given enough information to come to any good conclusions unlike in Inception.... in other words....

Inception ending = good writing  ME3 ending = Bad writing.

I''m not just talking about the ending of inception. Theres plenety more to speculate than just that, buts to much to get into. There is no speculation in ME3 if pay close attention to what happened. If you don't know something its because they probably dont want you to know it yet. Thats not bad writing. 

It is when its the end of a trilogy...... That would be like Tolkien only adding more information when people started complaining about it. and he went "don't worry there is another book coming that fills in all the information you are missing".... except that never happend since Tolkien knew how to not break the Narrative cohesion of the entire story with an ending, and break people's suspesion of dis-belief in the universe he created.  And you are telling me that i bought an incomplete product.... thats not much better....

Tolkien wasn't perfect and his books had unanswered questions as well. So its an end of a trilogy. Doesn't mean there wont be anymore games after it. They've said from the beginning that this was the end of Shepards story. Not Mass Effect in general. I say Shepard got his end and whatever comes next is up for grabs. I for one look forward to it. 

[sparkyo42]

babachewie wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Sparse wrote...

Navasha wrote...
But apparently, many people now hate having to "think" about things... just want to be told the story outright.

A good story leaves the audience pondering the themes it covers, it doesn't leave the entire audience trying to work out what actually happened. 

That isn't some new feature of stories, it has always been that way.

tell that to inception 

......Was not really much to work out from that movie ending..... either he is in a dream or not...... Not really at all the same thing we got here, which is speculation for everything and I mean everything..... and we were not given enough information to come to any good conclusions unlike in Inception.... in other words....

Inception ending = good writing  ME3 ending = Bad writing.

I''m not just talking about the ending of inception. Theres plenety more to speculate than just that, buts to much to get into. There is no speculation in ME3 if pay close attention to what happened. If you don't know something its because they probably dont want you to know it yet. Thats not bad writing. 

It is when its the end of a trilogy...... That would be like Tolkien only adding more information when people started complaining about it. and he went "don't worry there is another book coming that fills in all the information you are missing".... except that never happend since Tolkien knew how to not break the Narrative cohesion of the entire story with an ending, and break people's suspesion of dis-belief in the universe he created.  And you are telling me that i bought an incomplete product.... thats not much better....

Tolkien wasn't perfect and his books had unanswered questions as well. So its an end of a trilogy. Doesn't mean there wont be anymore games after it. They've said from the beginning that this was the end of Shepards story. Not Mass Effect in general. I say Shepard got his end and whatever comes next is up for grabs. I for one look forward to it. 

Given the situation at the moment I will be surprised if we see a future game for a long time, their attitude towards the fanbase as well won't help them with new products.

[GreyLycanTrope]

zarnk567 wrote...

Navasha wrote...

Never understood this hatred for speculation.

Mordin, one of the better loved characters, in Mass Effect owes everything he is to speculation.

His entire thought process is about speculating until "theory fits evidence".

But apparently, many people now hate having to "think" about things... just want to be told the story outright.

Nope, I just hate the ending cause it broke the narrative cohesion of the entire story and broke people's suspension of dis-belief in the universe. I like endings that make you think, just hate endings that are badly written.

I'd say we hate the ending because we actually thought about it. We thought about the themes that got discarded at the end along with the massive plot holes that made the endings downright nonsensical. Also I did not pay $80
for someone to tell me to use my imagination, I'm quite capable of doing that for free.

CaptainZaysh wrote...

This.  I thought it was very clever
that, at the end of the trilogy, we're left here on Earth looking out at
the stars and wondering what we'll find - just as we were right at the
start when it was all new to us.  I think it's really disappointing that
so many BioWare fans need everything spoon fed to them.

Since when does Earth have two visible moons?

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 23 avril 2012 - 05:32 .

[babachewie]

sparkyo42 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Sparse wrote...

Navasha wrote...
But apparently, many people now hate having to "think" about things... just want to be told the story outright.

A good story leaves the audience pondering the themes it covers, it doesn't leave the entire audience trying to work out what actually happened. 

That isn't some new feature of stories, it has always been that way.

tell that to inception 

......Was not really much to work out from that movie ending..... either he is in a dream or not...... Not really at all the same thing we got here, which is speculation for everything and I mean everything..... and we were not given enough information to come to any good conclusions unlike in Inception.... in other words....

Inception ending = good writing  ME3 ending = Bad writing.

I''m not just talking about the ending of inception. Theres plenety more to speculate than just that, buts to much to get into. There is no speculation in ME3 if pay close attention to what happened. If you don't know something its because they probably dont want you to know it yet. Thats not bad writing. 

It is when its the end of a trilogy...... That would be like Tolkien only adding more information when people started complaining about it. and he went "don't worry there is another book coming that fills in all the information you are missing".... except that never happend since Tolkien knew how to not break the Narrative cohesion of the entire story with an ending, and break people's suspesion of dis-belief in the universe he created.  And you are telling me that i bought an incomplete product.... thats not much better....

Tolkien wasn't perfect and his books had unanswered questions as well. So its an end of a trilogy. Doesn't mean there wont be anymore games after it. They've said from the beginning that this was the end of Shepards story. Not Mass Effect in general. I say Shepard got his end and whatever comes next is up for grabs. I for one look forward to it. 

Given the situation at the moment I will be surprised if we see a future game for a long time, their attitude towards the fanbase as well won't help them with new products.

I'd say the attitude towards bioware won't help as well. Both sides might be at fault which might ultimately destroy the ME universe. Which is a shame.

[The Protheans]

Abreu Road wrote...

But the ending makes you think.

Think about Bioware, at least.

It surely does, I thought to myself "WTF were they thinking".

[AnImpossibleGirl]

oblique9 wrote...

Navasha wrote...

Never understood this hatred for speculation.

Mordin, one of the better loved characters, in Mass Effect owes everything he is to speculation.

His entire thought process is about speculating until "theory fits evidence".

But apparently, many people now hate having to "think" about things... just want to be told the story outright.

Fox news. Why are they successful as a media outlet? Because people are too lazy to think.

Perfectly rational conclusion. Except people are better off not watching Faux News. Not only is it dumbed down, it dumbs it's viewers into Husk's...or worse.

[Aetas Mutuo]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Navasha wrote...

Never understood this hatred for speculation.

Mordin, one of the better loved characters, in Mass Effect owes everything he is to speculation.

His entire thought process is about speculating until "theory fits evidence".

But apparently, many people now hate having to "think" about things... just want to be told the story outright.

This.  I thought it was very clever that, at the end of the trilogy, we're left here on Earth looking out at the stars and wondering what we'll find - just as we were right at the start when it was all new to us.  I think it's really disappointing that so many BioWare fans need everything spoon fed to them.

Clever? From the way I define that word it did not fit. To be sure, I went and looked at all the various definitions of the word "clever" and I could not find out that fit the old man and the child scene.
 
The same problem arose with your use of "spoon fed."
 
Lastly, where on earth is this supposed to be?

My take away from all that is that I will be able to buy DLC at some point.

[The Protheans]

babachewie wrote...

sparkyo42 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Sparse wrote...

Navasha wrote...
But apparently, many people now hate having to "think" about things... just want to be told the story outright.

A good story leaves the audience pondering the themes it covers, it doesn't leave the entire audience trying to work out what actually happened. 

That isn't some new feature of stories, it has always been that way.

tell that to inception 

......Was not really much to work out from that movie ending..... either he is in a dream or not...... Not really at all the same thing we got here, which is speculation for everything and I mean everything..... and we were not given enough information to come to any good conclusions unlike in Inception.... in other words....

Inception ending = good writing  ME3 ending = Bad writing.

I''m not just talking about the ending of inception. Theres plenety more to speculate than just that, buts to much to get into. There is no speculation in ME3 if pay close attention to what happened. If you don't know something its because they probably dont want you to know it yet. Thats not bad writing. 

It is when its the end of a trilogy...... That would be like Tolkien only adding more information when people started complaining about it. and he went "don't worry there is another book coming that fills in all the information you are missing".... except that never happend since Tolkien knew how to not break the Narrative cohesion of the entire story with an ending, and break people's suspesion of dis-belief in the universe he created.  And you are telling me that i bought an incomplete product.... thats not much better....

Tolkien wasn't perfect and his books had unanswered questions as well. So its an end of a trilogy. Doesn't mean there wont be anymore games after it. They've said from the beginning that this was the end of Shepards story. Not Mass Effect in general. I say Shepard got his end and whatever comes next is up for grabs. I for one look forward to it. 

Given the situation at the moment I will be surprised if we see a future game for a long time, their attitude towards the fanbase as well won't help them with new products.

I'd say the attitude towards bioware won't help as well. Both sides might be at fault which might ultimately destroy the ME universe. Which is a shame.

It's not shame, Bioware ruined the story and a lot of people would rather not knowing what is next because it is ruined and Bioware is defending their A*tistic Integrity.
Anything next is a milked rushed game like ME3.

Modifié par The Protheans, 23 avril 2012 - 05:34 .

[sparkyo42]

Snip

Given the situation at the moment I will be surprised if we see a future game for a long time, their attitude towards the fanbase as well won't help them with new products.

 I'd say the attitude towards bioware won't help as well. Both sides might be at fault which might ultimately destroy the ME universe. Which is a shame.

Cetainly but if they had moved smarter/quicker the rage could have been avoided/deminished. I got Hearts of Iron 3 when it came out, like all Paradox games it was buggy. Some were major How the hell did they release this bugs. The forums went mad and within 24 hours the project lead was on saying yes there are bugs we know this and we will deal with them and work through the problems with you the fans, But we just finished the project and we're all taking a few weeks off but we are listening. And that was enough to calm the anger and the fans helped fix the game.

At this point I agree that the continuation of ME is in doubt, but the ending for me left me feeling like I don't care about the universe anymore.

Modifié par sparkyo42, 23 avril 2012 - 05:36 .

[babachewie]

The Protheans wrote...

babachewie wrote...

sparkyo42 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Sparse wrote...

Navasha wrote...
But apparently, many people now hate having to "think" about things... just want to be told the story outright.

A good story leaves the audience pondering the themes it covers, it doesn't leave the entire audience trying to work out what actually happened. 

That isn't some new feature of stories, it has always been that way.

tell that to inception 

......Was not really much to work out from that movie ending..... either he is in a dream or not...... Not really at all the same thing we got here, which is speculation for everything and I mean everything..... and we were not given enough information to come to any good conclusions unlike in Inception.... in other words....

Inception ending = good writing  ME3 ending = Bad writing.

I''m not just talking about the ending of inception. Theres plenety more to speculate than just that, buts to much to get into. There is no speculation in ME3 if pay close attention to what happened. If you don't know something its because they probably dont want you to know it yet. Thats not bad writing. 

It is when its the end of a trilogy...... That would be like Tolkien only adding more information when people started complaining about it. and he went "don't worry there is another book coming that fills in all the information you are missing".... except that never happend since Tolkien knew how to not break the Narrative cohesion of the entire story with an ending, and break people's suspesion of dis-belief in the universe he created.  And you are telling me that i bought an incomplete product.... thats not much better....

Tolkien wasn't perfect and his books had unanswered questions as well. So its an end of a trilogy. Doesn't mean there wont be anymore games after it. They've said from the beginning that this was the end of Shepards story. Not Mass Effect in general. I say Shepard got his end and whatever comes next is up for grabs. I for one look forward to it. 

Given the situation at the moment I will be surprised if we see a future game for a long time, their attitude towards the fanbase as well won't help them with new products.

I'd say the attitude towards bioware won't help as well. Both sides might be at fault which might ultimately destroy the ME universe. Which is a shame.

It's not shame, Bioware ruined the story and a lot of people would rather not knowing what is next because it is ruined and Bioware is defending their A*tistic Integrity.
Anything next is a milked rushed game like ME3.

And a lot of people would rather know. Nothing you said is proven fact. You say its ruined. I say it's not. 

[NS Wizdum]

Navasha wrote...

Never understood this hatred for speculation.

Mordin, one of the better loved characters, in Mass Effect owes everything he is to speculation.

His entire thought process is about speculating until "theory fits evidence".

But apparently, many people now hate having to "think" about things... just want to be told the story outright.

I actually enjoy speculation. Its how I define a good story. If the writers have given me enough background information for me to continue the story in my head, then it is an excellent story. The problem I have with speculating the ME3 ending, is that it makes no sense. I cannot rationalize anything after the return to the citadel. Every possible, rational, explanation involves everyone dieing slowly of starvation, or quickly in an explosion.

I'm in the minority in that I actually liked the ending to the "recent" BattleStar Galactica series. It made sense for their society to die out and rebuild because they had proven many times in the series that their technology kept leading them back to destruction. Mass Effect 3 was the opposite, we just proved that the Reaper's logic was wrong, by ending the Geth - Quarian war. The story went out of its way to show the Geth were not out to destroy organics.

[CaptainZaysh]

Rhazeal wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

This.  I thought it was very clever that, at the end of the trilogy, we're left here on Earth looking out at the stars and wondering what we'll find - just as we were right at the start when it was all new to us.  I think it's really disappointing that so many BioWare fans need everything spoon fed to them.

Wait a sec... there were fleets of operational ships in orbit around earth in every ending. The final scene was on a different planet. Maybe you need to make sure you actually understand what happened before being condescending towards those that do.

"We" as in "we, the audience", genius.

[babachewie]

sparkyo42 wrote...

Snip

Given the situation at the moment I will be surprised if we see a future game for a long time, their attitude towards the fanbase as well won't help them with new products.

 I'd say the attitude towards bioware won't help as well. Both sides might be at fault which might ultimately destroy the ME universe. Which is a shame.

Cetainly but if they had moved smarter/quicker the rage could have been avoided/deminished. I got Hearts of Iron 3 when it came out, like all Paradox games it was buggy. Some were major How the hell did they release this bugs. The forums went mad and within 24 hours the project lead was on saying yes there are bugs we know this and we will deal with them and work through the problems with you the fans, But we just finished the project and we're all taking a few weeks off but we are listening. And that was enough to calm the anger and the fans helped fix the game.

At this point I agree that the continuation of ME is in doubt, but the ending for me left me feeling like I don't care about the universe anymore.

I've never heard of Hearts of Iron 3, but its the same situation i have with most bethesda games. It's a process. Sometimes you have to be patient. I went dark before the game came out. I didnt read anything till I beat it. I really liked the ending and was caught off guard by the response from everyone else. I'm sure Bioware was too. I'm curious to see what this extended cut will include. 

[Peranor]

[Reorte]

People like to think. They don't like to have to guess and make stuff up to finish the story. That's the job of the author. If you find what we got satisfying then where do you draw the line between it and the entire trilogy being presented as "Stuff happened"? May as well end it in ME1 the minute you set foot on Eden Prime and let the players speculate about the rest.

Modifié par Reorte, 23 avril 2012 - 05:48 .

[sparkyo42]

babachewie wrote...

sparkyo42 wrote...

Snip

Given the situation at the moment I will be surprised if we see a future game for a long time, their attitude towards the fanbase as well won't help them with new products.

 I'd say the attitude towards bioware won't help as well. Both sides might be at fault which might ultimately destroy the ME universe. Which is a shame.

Cetainly but if they had moved smarter/quicker the rage could have been avoided/deminished. I got Hearts of Iron 3 when it came out, like all Paradox games it was buggy. Some were major How the hell did they release this bugs. The forums went mad and within 24 hours the project lead was on saying yes there are bugs we know this and we will deal with them and work through the problems with you the fans, But we just finished the project and we're all taking a few weeks off but we are listening. And that was enough to calm the anger and the fans helped fix the game.

At this point I agree that the continuation of ME is in doubt, but the ending for me left me feeling like I don't care about the universe anymore.

I've never heard of Hearts of Iron 3, but its the same situation i have with most bethesda games. It's a process. Sometimes you have to be patient. I went dark before the game came out. I didnt read anything till I beat it. I really liked the ending and was caught off guard by the response from everyone else. I'm sure Bioware was too. I'm curious to see what this extended cut will include. 

They may have been caught out but the tone of the responses from them has been at best passive agressive at worst straight out trolling the fanbase.If they had engaged quicker they could have reduced the anger just look what happened after the Pac interviews. The problem now is that the at least a chunk of the basse is and maybe longterm against the game. and I don't think the ME universe can recover from that.

[Daedalus1773]

anorling wrote...

lol winning

[Jassu1979]

Now, I'm someone who likes enigmatic, open endings - provided that they're well done.

But the ending to ME3 isn't just open, it's a giant, festering plot hole that sucks all the awesome straight out of the whole series.