266 réponses à ce sujet

[Liefglinde]

It amuses me how people refuse to read my posts. I never said "at once." Putting words into my argument to make your argument right doesn't work.

I'm fine with you being screwed if a Phantom gets close to you. My one and ONLY issue with the Phantom is that incredibly broken palm blaster. Massive damage, infinite range, 600% accuracy. Yeah, that's completely balanced.

[RazRei]

lolspawn wrote...
if u have stasis or a krogan van u need not worry about phantoms.  

Krogan Vanguards....keep that **** away from my team. 

Stasis works or Stasis bubble but if you don't kill them in the time they drop you have a high chance that they'll bug the **** out where they become stuck in the ground hitting you where ever you go and being invincible. 

[adrenaline1983]

Liefglinde wrote...

It amuses me how people refuse to read my posts. I never said "at once." Putting words into my argument to make your argument right doesn't work.

I'm fine with you being screwed if a Phantom gets close to you. My one and ONLY issue with the Phantom is that incredibly broken palm blaster. Massive damage, infinite range, 600% accuracy. Yeah, that's completely balanced.

Wrong.  That's completely awesome.

[tetsutsuru]

Phantoms aren't overpowered. It's simply rock-paper-scissors. What class are you playing? Asari have no problem with Phantoms as they are easily stopped with Stasis, it's such a non-issue. Human Vanguards are able to charge in and play with Phantoms at their own game.  Krogan?  Hell, I stop and watch for the sheer entertainment.

I play a human Infiltrator. Only 1 out of 5 times do I survive against those in CQC. And that's on a good day AND with teammates backing me up and also shooting at it.  And BTW, this is on Gold.

But I'm a sniper, CQC is NOT my game. When a Phantom is across the map, it's then playing MY game. And at that time, only 1 out of 5 times does it make it across.

Play to YOUR strengths, NOT theirs.

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 23 avril 2012 - 08:56 .

[Liefglinde]

adrenaline1983 wrote...

Liefglinde wrote...

It amuses me how people refuse to read my posts. I never said "at once." Putting words into my argument to make your argument right doesn't work.

I'm fine with you being screwed if a Phantom gets close to you. My one and ONLY issue with the Phantom is that incredibly broken palm blaster. Massive damage, infinite range, 600% accuracy. Yeah, that's completely balanced.

Wrong.  That's completely awesome.

And I believe that ends your argument.

[adrenaline1983]

Liefglinde wrote...

adrenaline1983 wrote...

Liefglinde wrote...

It amuses me how people refuse to read my posts. I never said "at once." Putting words into my argument to make your argument right doesn't work.

I'm fine with you being screwed if a Phantom gets close to you. My one and ONLY issue with the Phantom is that incredibly broken palm blaster. Massive damage, infinite range, 600% accuracy. Yeah, that's completely balanced.

Wrong.  That's completely awesome.

And I believe that ends your argument.

If you can't find a way to get into cover or shoot accurately/use your powers appropriately, you're clearly incapable of playing on Gold matches.

[jotun04]

The palm blaster is yet another inconsistent element of phantoms.. Sometimes they'll just shoot it occasionally, as an annoyance, but sometimes they'll pretend to be sneaky ravagers and just non-stop blast the crap out of you.

Like the palm shield, I just wish they were more consistent about using it.

Sometimes phantoms are laughably weak. Sometimes they decide to be invulnerable demigods of death. On average they're fairly balanced, maybe even a little weak.

[Omega-202]

Liefglinde wrote...

I don't recall ever saying I had problems with them. Oh, and you can kill them with the Salarian Infiltrator? Tell me more about how you can kill enemies with 1 out of 31 playable characters and that makes that enemy perfectly balanced.

I already listed all of the classes that I find they're not a problem for but you like cherry picking posts.

Let me relist with some reasons:

Asari Adept and Vanguard: Stasis + Carnifex

Human and Turian Soldiers: Concussive Shot lockdown, I've actually juggled multiple Phantoms this way without an issue.  They either keep getting staggered or they get locked in "Absorb powers crouch" and can't shoot back.

Krogan anything: Heavy melee + GPS/Falcon/Revenant keeps them perma staggered.  As long as you know when they've used their last melee attack and avoid them for 5ish seconds afterwards you can prevent getting insta-killed.  Despite what people say, it works even on Gold.

Batarian anything: Blade armor insta-gibs them back.  Sub Net is a poor man's Stasis but still works well if you hit them at the right time.  I don't yet have the Soldier but I've played with enough of them to know that Ballistic Blades do enough damage to cripple and stagger them, setting up for the easy kill.

Human Vanguards : no explanation needed
Drell Vanguards: not as good, but can still Charge+Heavy Melee+shotgun them into oblivion if you're quick about it.

Geth Infiltrator : sees right through their cloak, can kill in a single cloak cycle with the GPS

Salarian Infiltrator : Cloak+Drain+Valiant makes short work of everything in the game

Let me be clear, this is all from personal experience on Gold.  What I stated works for me and I've had success with it.  I don't have experience with my Salarian Engineer on Gold vs Cerberus so I will not state anything conclusive, but I can bet that I'd find that he could hand them on Gold as well as he's handled them on Silver (or more aptly, manhandled them).

[SinerAthin]

It's kind'a hilarious how people claim the hand gun is okay when it is in fact more precise and more deadly than a bloody Nemesis' sniper rifle.

I know how to beat Phantoms, but hell if I find it strange for them to snipe me with 100% accuracy from far away.

They're supposed to be scary melee opponents. If we fear their palm gun more than their blade, something is wrong.

[Liefglinde]

SinerAthin wrote...

It's kind'a hilarious how people claim the hand gun is okay when it is in fact more precise and more deadly than a bloody Nemesis' sniper rifle.

I know how to beat Phantoms, but hell if I find it strange for them to snipe me with 100% accuracy from far away.

They're supposed to be scary melee opponents. If we fear their palm gun more than their blade, something is wrong.

Exactly my point.

[Omega-202]

Liefglinde wrote...

It amuses me how people refuse to read my posts. I never said "at once." Putting words into my argument to make your argument right doesn't work.

"If you have any less than 10 Phantoms coming at you then I'm sorry to inform you, but you're not on Gold."

You're either trolling or your just damned stupid.  In what other context would that statement have made any sense than to say "at one time"?  

You were trying to argue that our plan for dealing with 3-4 simultaneous Phantoms was irrelevant because that situation doesn't happen on Gold.  Either the post I'm currently quoting is you pathetically trying to play damage control or the one you made on the last page that I quoted above is a lame attempt at boasting that backfired all over you.  

[Omega-202]

SinerAthin wrote...
They're supposed to be scary melee opponents. If we fear their palm gun more than their blade, something is wrong.

Who said that they're only supposed to be scary melee opponents?  They're nearly worth as many points as an Atlas and they have a spawning alottment that puts them in the "boss" category.  

They're supposed to be scary opponents in general.  They're meant to be the scariest thing that Cerberus can throw at you, not some melee only ninja.  If all they were supposed to be was a scary melee opponent, then they would have the same point alottment as a Geth Hunter and would only attack from point blank.  But as I said, they're not and they don't.  

[NegativZero]

Whenever I play Asari adept I just stasis them like no tomorrow. And after I got the Quarian engineer, watching a Phantom dance around a flame-spewing turret has become one of my favorite past times.

[adrenaline1983]

Another strategy I keep forgetting to bring up is throwing Stasis in choke points/entry areas -- this allows you about five to eight seconds of fighting other enemies. Taking a quick look to see if you have ensnared a Phantom or a Nemesis isn't taxing to do.

[Liefglinde]

Omega-202 wrote...

Liefglinde wrote...

It amuses me how people refuse to read my posts. I never said "at once." Putting words into my argument to make your argument right doesn't work.

"If you have any less than 10 Phantoms coming at you then I'm sorry to inform you, but you're not on Gold."

You're either trolling or your just damned stupid.  In what other context would that statement have made any sense than to say "at one time"?  

You were trying to argue that our plan for dealing with 3-4 simultaneous Phantoms was irrelevant because that situation doesn't happen on Gold.  Either the post I'm currently quoting is you pathetically trying to play damage control or the one you made on the last page that I quoted above is a lame attempt at boasting that backfired all over you.  

Your condescending tone really doesn't help your argument at all. I've played more than a few matches where I've had a constant stream of Phantoms coming at me because they literally spawned right there. Just because you assumed that I meant "at precisely the same time" does not mean that is what I was insinuating.

I'd highly suggest you calm down before attempting to make and/or counter an argument. Trying to downplay my argument by calling my efforts "pathetic", "lame attempts at boasting", and calling me "damned stupid" really just downplay your own arguments. Those losing an argument generally go for the insults, after all.

[adrenaline1983]

Liefglinde wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

Liefglinde wrote...

It amuses me how people refuse to read my posts. I never said "at once." Putting words into my argument to make your argument right doesn't work.

"If you have any less than 10 Phantoms coming at you then I'm sorry to inform you, but you're not on Gold."

You're either trolling or your just damned stupid.  In what other context would that statement have made any sense than to say "at one time"?  

You were trying to argue that our plan for dealing with 3-4 simultaneous Phantoms was irrelevant because that situation doesn't happen on Gold.  Either the post I'm currently quoting is you pathetically trying to play damage control or the one you made on the last page that I quoted above is a lame attempt at boasting that backfired all over you.  

Your condescending tone really doesn't help your argument at all. I've played more than a few matches where I've had a constant stream of Phantoms coming at me because they literally spawned right there. Just because you assumed that I meant "at precisely the same time" does not mean that is what I was insinuating.

I'd highly suggest you calm down before attempting to make and/or counter an argument. Trying to downplay my argument by calling my efforts "pathetic", "lame attempts at boasting", and calling me "damned stupid" really just downplay your own arguments. Those losing an argument generally go for the insults, after all.

And posting non-sequiturs or exaggerating the difficulties isn't helping your argument(s) at all.

[Liefglinde]

adrenaline1983 wrote...
And posting non-sequiturs or exaggerating the difficulties isn't helping your argument(s) at all.

I'd like to point out that your previous post mentioned using.... wait for it.... wait for itttt.... the ASARI ADEPT. Again. You aren't even making an argument at this point. Just saying that yeah, you can use the class that can freeze Phantoms so they aren't overpowered.

[astheoceansblue]

Phazael wrote...

The biggest issue with the Phantom is that it requires specific powers to deal with. Being nimble and damaging as all hell is fine, even with their ludicrously high barrier value. The fact that only three specific powers contain them reliably makes having those classes a must in any gold endeavor where phantoms might turn up. With enemies like Banshees or Hunters, most classes can combat them without having to resort to Stasis Bubble or Decoy type shennanigans, even if its not optimal. Below Gold, their gun damage could be toned down a touch, but Gold they are just ridiculous unless you bring the right race/class person to deal with them. I mean, they can practically run straight at someone and instagib them before the person can drop them, which is rough for any class reliant on guns. Banshees and Atlases are at least easily spotted and give descent visual cues to clue you in on when to dodge, but Phantoms just randomly pew pew you for absurd damage with no descent visual clue on when it is ok to pop up and return shots.

I'm not following this.

I can reliably stagger and Headshot Phantoms with my SI.
I can reliably stagger and punch/shoot them with my Batarian Soldier.
HVs take them to pieces...
Etc...

And if you can't take them down on your own, working as a team co-ordinating efforts makes them a cake walk. The problem most people have with this game is lack of communication and not prioritising targets, I wish more people used their mics...

Anyway, certain powers make Phantoms EASY as hell, the rest you can take them down with without too much trouble if you're practised enough as an individual or team player.

[crushcrushcrush]

Omega-202 wrote...

SinerAthin wrote...
They're supposed to be scary melee opponents. If we fear their palm gun more than their blade, something is wrong.

Who said that they're only supposed to be scary melee opponents?  They're nearly worth as many points as an Atlas and they have a spawning alottment that puts them in the "boss" category.  

They're supposed to be scary opponents in general.  They're meant to be the scariest thing that Cerberus can throw at you, not some melee only ninja.  If all they were supposed to be was a scary melee opponent, then they would have the same point alottment as a Geth Hunter and would only attack from point blank.  But as I said, they're not and they don't.  

It seems  a little odd then that the tooltip for Phantoms is that you can shoot their sword to disarm them. That kinda implies this will be beneficial for you. It really isn't.

DON'T SHOOT THE PHANTOM'S SWORD

[Hyunsai]

Nerf the hand nuclear gun of doom of the phantoms, and you'd better remove Cerberus from the game.

[Kittstalkur]

Liefglinde wrote...

Which new location? The one with the Phantom, the one with the Phantom, or the one with the Phantom? Let's make the scenario even more fun and say you don't have an Asari with Stasis.

How is being surrounded by Phantoms fundamentally different from being surrounded by anything else? No matter what, you're pretty much doomed unless you get out of there or fire off a missile. The difference is, when you're surrounded by phantoms, it's usually JUST the phantoms, instead of a small pack of units.

[Star fury]

Yet another "nerf phantom" thread... People use your brains and skills, if you have them of course. Phantoms are easiest elite enemies.

[2leggywillow]

Star fury wrote...

Yet another "nerf phantom" thread... People use your brains and skills, if you have them of course. Phantoms are easiest elite enemies.

This.  Phantoms really aren't hard.  Some classes are capable of dealing with them entirely on their own, and some classes may need to cooperate with teammates, but there are quiet a few viable strategies to deal with them.  They're challenging but they aren't that bad (and that's speaking as a self-admitted mediocre player here).

[Omega-202]

Liefglinde wrote...

Your condescending tone really doesn't help your argument at all. I've played more than a few matches where I've had a constant stream of Phantoms coming at me because they literally spawned right there. Just because you assumed that I meant "at precisely the same time" does not mean that is what I was insinuating.

I'd highly suggest you calm down before attempting to make and/or counter an argument. Trying to downplay my argument by calling my efforts "pathetic", "lame attempts at boasting", and calling me "damned stupid" really just downplay your own arguments. Those losing an argument generally go for the insults, after all.

My argument doesn't need help, it stands on the facts.  

I don't need to downplay your "argument" with my ad hominem because your statements have no validity to begin with.  My tone is one of exasperation due to dealing with someone that amounts to an exaggerating, entitled, whining child.  And like arguing with a child, I've given up any semblance of trying to reason with you because your perceptions of reality are so far ingrained in simply "winning" the argument that you don't actually care about the facts of the situation.  

The fact is, you've provided no "proof" that anything is amiss with Phantoms.  Your lack of knowledge about how the game actually works just shows how out of touch you are with the situation at hand.  Your declarations of "10 phantoms" and then your feeble backpedalling reeks of desperation.  

[OblivionDawn]

Liefglinde wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

Liefglinde wrote...

It amuses me how people refuse to read my posts. I never said "at once." Putting words into my argument to make your argument right doesn't work.

"If you have any less than 10 Phantoms coming at you then I'm sorry to inform you, but you're not on Gold."

You're either trolling or your just damned stupid.  In what other context would that statement have made any sense than to say "at one time"?  

You were trying to argue that our plan for dealing with 3-4 simultaneous Phantoms was irrelevant because that situation doesn't happen on Gold.  Either the post I'm currently quoting is you pathetically trying to play damage control or the one you made on the last page that I quoted above is a lame attempt at boasting that backfired all over you.  

Your condescending tone really doesn't help your argument at all.

Implying his argument is the one that needs help, lol.