53 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyne]

I didn't like her at first, when she blames you for the death of your sibling. That seemed out of character for a parent. Most parents I know would become MORE protective of their remaining children and blame themselves rather than blame THEM, at least openly. Then there was her entitled attitude regarding the family inheritance. I did like how she was happy her parents forgave her for marrying the mage. Overall, she was OK.

[Tommyspa]

She serves her purpose well. She's a bit like my mom.

Modifié par Tommyspa, 25 avril 2012 - 05:45 .

[berelinde]

Vendetta543 wrote...

Always did wonder why Gamlen was never invited to live in the Hawke estate XD Maybe he was and had too much pride to accept it.

That was my take on it.

He jokes about asking for a finder's fee, but in the end, he's too self-reliant to accept handouts. Think about the way he helps the Hawkes get into Kirkwall. He does so in a way that doesn't obligate Hawke to him. He helps Hawke retain his dignity.

I always want to tell Leandra off when she protests helping Gamlen out with the grocery bill. No wonder he drinks.

[esper]

Cyne wrote...

I didn't like her at first, when she blames you for the death of your sibling. That seemed out of character for a parent. Most parents I know would become MORE protective of their remaining children and blame themselves rather than blame THEM, at least openly. Then there was her entitled attitude regarding the family inheritance. I did like how she was happy her parents forgave her for marrying the mage. Overall, she was OK.

Actually that is in characther she is in sorrow and is lashing out at the person telling her to get a move on and grief later, it just happens to be Hawke (Even if you are diplomatic that is basically what you are saying). She apologize later if you bring it up again.  

[Arthur Cousland]

While she had her motherly qualities, I didn't like how she accused Gamlen of selling her children into servitude, when he got them jobs so they could get into Kirkwall, and that they should be nobility.  She is also upset when Gamlen asks her to pay rent, which I don't see a problem with him asking.

When Leandra left her family to be with Malcom, she shouldn't have expected that everything would be waiting for her when she returned 25 years later.  If not for the blight, the Hawkes would have never come to Kirkwall and her inheritance would have been sitting there, collecting dust if Gamlen did nothing with it.

After living in Lothering, constantly on the move to stay out of the reach of the templars, I wouldn't expect someone like Leandra to act like she's nobility.  The Hawkes should have been more grateful to Gamlen for letting them stay in his house until they could afford to live elsewhere.

[TEWR]

berelinde wrote...

Vendetta543 wrote...

Always did wonder why Gamlen was never invited to live in the Hawke estate XD Maybe he was and had too much pride to accept it.

That was my take on it.

He jokes about asking for a finder's fee, but in the end, he's too self-reliant to accept handouts. Think about the way he helps the Hawkes get into Kirkwall. He does so in a way that doesn't obligate Hawke to him. He helps Hawke retain his dignity.

I always want to tell Leandra off when she protests helping Gamlen out with the grocery bill. No wonder he drinks.

I always saw it as this: Would you really want the person that stole your mother's rightful inheritance and squandered it away on bad investments, sex, and Maker knows what else living in your estate? Where he might continue such a line of actions?

I mean, he certainly deserved an upgrade to maybe a better house -- if there is such a thing in Kirkwall that's not a part of Hightown -- but inviting him to the estate isn't all that wise IMO.

[Jessihatt]

Arthur Cousland wrote...

While she had her motherly qualities, I didn't like how she accused Gamlen of selling her children into servitude, when he got them jobs so they could get into Kirkwall, and that they should be nobility.  She is also upset when Gamlen asks her to pay rent, which I don't see a problem with him asking.

When Leandra left her family to be with Malcom, she shouldn't have expected that everything would be waiting for her when she returned 25 years later.  If not for the blight, the Hawkes would have never come to Kirkwall and her inheritance would have been sitting there, collecting dust if Gamlen did nothing with it.

After living in Lothering, constantly on the move to stay out of the reach of the templars, I wouldn't expect someone like Leandra to act like she's nobility.  The Hawkes should have been more grateful to Gamlen for letting them stay in his house until they could afford to live elsewhere.

I agree completely.
I love Gamlen so much, he is hilarious.

I also don't like how she blames Hawke for everything, namely the sibling's death(s) and new lifestyle.
I didn't dislike her, but she acted superior and a lot of the time she should have been grateful.

That said, I liked her enough to want to save her in Act 2.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I always saw it as this: Would you really want the person that stole your mother's rightful inheritance and squandered it away on bad investments, sex, and Maker knows what else living in your estate? Where he might continue such a line of actions?

I mean, he certainly deserved an upgrade to maybe a better house -- if there is such a thing in Kirkwall that's not a part of Hightown -- but inviting him to the estate isn't all that wise IMO.

 


If it were possible, I would have had him live at the estate. Like he said, Leandra wasn't going to return, she chose her life and he had cared for their parents.
She was moving all over Ferelden, he probably wouldn't have been able to contact her if he tried.
Should he have moved out and left the riches collecting dust? 

I admit he made bad choices but it's Uncle Gamlen! He meant well, I'm sure!

Modifié par CommanderJessica, 25 avril 2012 - 05:37 .

[Dutchess]

esper wrote...

Cyne wrote...

I didn't like her at first, when she blames you for the death of your sibling. That seemed out of character for a parent. Most parents I know would become MORE protective of their remaining children and blame themselves rather than blame THEM, at least openly. Then there was her entitled attitude regarding the family inheritance. I did like how she was happy her parents forgave her for marrying the mage. Overall, she was OK.

Actually that is in characther she is in sorrow and is lashing out at the person telling her to get a move on and grief later, it just happens to be Hawke (Even if you are diplomatic that is basically what you are saying). She apologize later if you bring it up again.  

Actually, she doesn't say "this is all your fault" when you choose the diplomatic option. She only says that when you choose sarcastic or aggressive. 

[TEWR]

If it were possible, I would have had him live at the estate. Like he said, Leandra wasn't going to return, she chose her life and he had cared for their parents.
She was moving all over Ferelden, he probably wouldn't have been able to contact her if he tried.
Should he have moved out and left the riches collecting dust?

I admit he made bad choices but it's Uncle Gamlen! He meant well, I'm sure!

We don't know whether Leandra would've returned or not. She was never informed that her parents left the entire estate to her. All she was told was that they had died, and this was roughly when Bethany and Carver were born. Considering she knew her parents had died, she must've been informed by Gamlen or someone associated with him.

Had she known they left the estate to her, I imagine she would've returned. Because she left for a few reasons: she didn't want to marry the de Launcet man she was being forced to marry and she was in love with Malcolm.

Hell, Gamlen even helped her to flee Kirkwall with Malcolm, somewhat.

[Jessihatt]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

If it were possible, I would have had him live at the estate. Like he said, Leandra wasn't going to return, she chose her life and he had cared for their parents.
She was moving all over Ferelden, he probably wouldn't have been able to contact her if he tried.
Should he have moved out and left the riches collecting dust?

I admit he made bad choices but it's Uncle Gamlen! He meant well, I'm sure!

We don't know whether Leandra would've returned or not. She was never informed that her parents left the entire estate to her. All she was told was that they had died, and this was roughly when Bethany and Carver were born. Considering she knew her parents had died, she must've been informed by Gamlen or someone associated with him.

Had she known they left the estate to her, I imagine she would've returned. Because she left for a few reasons: she didn't want to marry the de Launcet man she was being forced to marry and she was in love with Malcolm.

Hell, Gamlen even helped her to flee Kirkwall with Malcolm, somewhat.

The twins were a year old when they died, so that's still about 14 years before Malcolm's death I think.
Malcolm wouldn't have been able to return to Kirkwall, he needed his Templar friends and the Warden's to help him didn't he? If he'd returned, he'd be in the circle for sure.

So as for the estate, I believe she would have bestowed that upon Gamlen for sure.

[TEWR]

The twins were a year old when they died, so that's still about 14 years before Malcolm's death I think.

They were a week old actually.

Malcolm wouldn't have been able to return to Kirkwall, he needed his Templar friends and the Warden's to help him didn't he? If he'd returned, he'd be in the circle for sure.

Not if he had the money to keep him out of the Circle, which Leandra did.

They ran away originally because they feared her parents would never approve coupled with the fact that the Templars were hounding Malcolm.

But since everything was left to Leandra, neither was an issue anymore.

Having a crapload of money buys mages things they're not allowed to have. Like freedom from the Circle, as MotA's Mage Robes tell us.

So as for the estate, I believe she would have bestowed that upon Gamlen for sure.

I don't see her doing that.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 avril 2012 - 06:02 .

[Jessihatt]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The twins were a year old when they died, so that's still about 14 years before Malcolm's death I think.

A week actually.

Malcolm wouldn't have been able to return to Kirkwall, he needed his Templar friends and the Warden's to help him didn't he? If he'd returned, he'd be in the circle for sure.

Not if he had the money to keep him out of the Circle, which Leandra did.

So as for the estate, I believe she would have bestowed that upon Gamlen for sure.

I don't see her doing that.

I said "I think"  I've not played it in about a year.
I might be giving her too much credit, but I don't think she would risk it. The de Launcet's have money but Emile is in the circle. Hawke is discovered just prior to becoming Champion if a mage, and it's the people of Kirkwall and their respect for Hawke that stops them being thrown into the circle.

Again, maybe I look too kindly upon Leandra, but I think if she didn't come to Kirkwall (which I still don't think she would), she would give her brother the estate instead of throwing him out onto the streets.

[esper]

renjility wrote...

esper wrote...

Cyne wrote...

I didn't like her at first, when she blames you for the death of your sibling. That seemed out of character for a parent. Most parents I know would become MORE protective of their remaining children and blame themselves rather than blame THEM, at least openly. Then there was her entitled attitude regarding the family inheritance. I did like how she was happy her parents forgave her for marrying the mage. Overall, she was OK.

Actually that is in characther she is in sorrow and is lashing out at the person telling her to get a move on and grief later, it just happens to be Hawke (Even if you are diplomatic that is basically what you are saying). She apologize later if you bring it up again.  

Actually, she doesn't say "this is all your fault" when you choose the diplomatic option. She only says that when you choose sarcastic or aggressive. 

And my canon and most played Hawke is diplomatic (face palm.). Anyway then people have even less reason to **** about it.

 

[whykikyouwhy]

Faerunner wrote...

Leandra expects the benefits of nobility when she arrives in the city, and continues to complain about not having it a year after being told it's gone and even before her kids find the Will. Leandra and the Hawkes insist on getting into Kirkwall, and Gamlen tells them upfront the only way to do it is to work off a debt for a year. Even when they think it's their debt and not his, Leandra and the Hawkes balk at the idea of actually having to work. ("You're selling us into indentured servitude?!" Carver cries.) You would think he was selling them into slavery, which screams self-entitlement and ingrate attitude to me. 

Perhaps it wasn't about having to work, but who they had to work for - a smuggler or  a mercenary. Neither appear to be respectable or reputable. It would be one thing if Gamlen asked for rent money or hustled the Hawke family off to a factory or the docks, where different types of jobs could possibly be procured. But after escaping the Blight, outrunning darkspawn, making a deal with a dragon-witch, and traveling across the water, they arrive to find that they must smuggle goods or strong-arm some folks.

I never got the impression that they thought they were going to be clad in finery and put their feet up right when they got there and not have to work at all - rather that they were hoping for some sense of security in some form. It seemed to me that the circumstances involved with how they had to get into Kirkwall (deals made in back alleys and such) was just another blow.

[Ferretinabun]

Am I the only one who thought she had a weak voice actress? Maybe it shouldn't affect my opinion of her character, but it does.

Character-wise she didn't annoy me too much. But she hardly made a big impression either. Just a fairly bland, mumsy character, really. Had 'expendable' stamped on her from the word 'go'.

[Sharn01]

I didnt really like her, the whole, lets take my mage child to the city with the largest Templar population in the world, where Templars are known for being overly strict and abusive and mages have a tendency to go insane so I can have some money and an easier life bothered me.

[Vendetta543]

Off topic, but I gotta ask: Do you think Gamlen and Charade take over the Hawke estate by the endgame? I left Orana there and I don't think she'd go with Bodahn what with the whole "Never goes outside" thing.

[Arthur Cousland]

Is Mistress Selby Leandra's twin sister? Same voice, outfit, and similar face/hair.
http://dragonage.wik.../Mistress_Selby

[Gallimatia]

Faerunner wrote...

Gallimatia wrote...

I think you're exaggerating Gamlen's virtues. Athenril and Meeran agreed to forgive Gamlen's debts to their respective organizations in exchange for the siblings work something you have to learn from them because he himself neglects to mention it. Could be he charged his family quite a bit for his connections giving them reason to expect additional help such as free room and board. I doubt the going rate for being smuggled into Kirkwall was anything close to two years skilled labour. This is what Leandra is referring to when she goes "You sold my children into servitude [had them work off your debts]! Now you're asking me to pay rent?".

I don't think I am. I'm just not as offended by his faults. Maybe it's because I always play as an elf, but I always expect to work hard and earn the things I want when I this game. I don't expect other characters to roll out the red carpet and provide all the ease and luxury a noble name can buy.

Leandra expects the benefits of nobility when she arrives in the city, and continues to complain about not having it a year after being told it's gone and even before her kids find the Will. Leandra and the Hawkes insist on getting into Kirkwall, and Gamlen tells them upfront the only way to do it is to work off a debt for a year. Even when they think it's their debt and not his, Leandra and the Hawkes balk at the idea of actually having to work. ("You're selling us into indentured servitude?!" Carver cries.) You would think he was selling them into slavery, which screams self-entitlement and ingrate attitude to me. 

I was just happy to get into the city and have work, so I didn't mind paying off a debt with indentured servitude. If Leandra had shown any humility or gratitude to Gamlen for getting her family into the city and letting them stay in his house like she wanted (even if it wasn't how she wanted) before she learned they had to pay off his debts and not their own, or that it was her inheritence he spent and not his own, then I might have been more sympathetic toward her and less so to him.
But she never did, so I don't.

Leandra does expect the benefits of nobility when she arrives. That highly reasonable expectation is the reason they go to Kirkwall in the first place. If Gamlen had been in a position to offer such benefits I'm sure he would have as would Leandra to him in reversed positions. They are family and do appear to love eachother.

Having to work a combined two years without pay to get into Kirkwall is a terrible position to be in. It truly is something to cry about. Even a city elf with poor prospects would have to think twice about that. Servitude is fundamentally different from regular work. Having no freedom, no control, no option to quit and getting no money for your labour is disheartening. The Hawke siblings end up doing it for their mother and Gamlen. The older generation is the one benefitting from the arrangement. Gamlen is especially lucky if you ask me because let's face it once he's introduced the Hawkes to his contacts he's made himself useless. They could then negotiate directly with the competing employers and get payed a fair amount but they don't and instead honor the deals Gamlen made.

As for Leandra not being grateful humility and gratefulnes are not feelings that have any obvious roles in family life. It seems a sad day to me when one sibling is humble towards another and gratefulness in a relationship implies one is tracking what one has done for the other, how it measures up and what is owed because of it. A state of being which need not apply to two parties that have a deep bond. Leandra's bond to Gamlen transcends and doesn't allow for petty and materialistic greatfulness!

For the record I am not the least bit offended by Gamlen's faults. I like him a whole lot better than Leandra but I do like them both.

[Karlone123]

Sharn01 wrote...

I didnt really like her, the whole, lets take my mage child to the city with the largest Templar population in the world, where Templars are known for being overly strict and abusive and mages have a tendency to go insane so I can have some money and an easier life bothered me.

Haha yeah, they would had a much easier time hiding in Ferelden from the Templars with them acting as Guardians against the blight and the trouble in the Mage tower.

Really I would have prefered if Denerim would have served as the main location of Da2 while fighting the blight in the battle for Denerim and having a rebuilding process of Ferelden that spanned ten years.

[Vendetta543]

The thing that makes it bad is that she left for 25 years, give or take. If she left for a year or 2, fine, but she basically abandoned the entire thing for about half her life and now she expects it to be all there when she comes back and that she should get full benefits along with it. Granted, she seems more concerned about it being there for her children more than for her at times.

If she was complaining so much, they should've just moved further inland instead of nagging Gamlen about the situation. He was providing them room and board (No matter how crappy it may be), and Leandra never seems to do anything other than stand around and say she's petitioning the viscount.

[Lazy Jer]

I think Leandra's an okay character. I mean I wouldn't join a fan club or anything, but she's fine.

She intially blames Hawke for Carver/Bethany's death in the beginning, true, but it's not a constant thing, in fact she takes it back when you talk to her about it later. She said something that she didn't mean after seeing her child die. Understandable.

She does expect to come back to an estate and a name in Kirkwall but that's because she thought it was all still there. Gamlen sort of admits he didn't write, so to her knowledge everything should have been the same as it was after she left, save for her parents being dead. Most importantly, she wouldn't have even gone to Kirkwall if she had anywhere else to go. Lothering was torched, she felt that she needed to leave Ferelden because of the blight. Then she learns that Gamlen had money and an estate and lost both. I can understand her being frustrated.

Lastly I don't regard her as whining and moaning and expecting everyone else to get her estate back for her. She says in the game that it's enough to know that her parents didn't die hating her. She does petition to the Viscount to get the house back, but what would you do? If your parents house was sold to slavers, then gets awarded of the state because it's owners died without an heir wouldn't you write to the Viscount saying "Hey...I'm an Amell...we used to own this thing, can I have it back now?" Especially if you learned that the person that sold it didn't, technically speaking, have a right to? So she works to get it back.

Okay, she's harder on Gamlen then she needs to be I'll give that. She never says (on screen) says "thank you for helping us this far." and shows a lot of anger towards her. But first of all, he DID screw her out of her inheretence which is hard to get over and second of all I get the feeling that the feeling is mutual. Gamlen resents Leandra for being the favorite, even though he was there for their parents in their declining years. I can understand his frustration as well, truth be told. Especially after cleaning out their bed pans, helping to feed them and taking care of them when their at death's door and hearing one of them's last words be "Leandra". So yeah..there's bad blood between the Amell siblings on both sides. We do know, though, that he frequently visited the Hawke estate after Hawke got it back so they apparently were on speaking terms at the end.

Note: I don't hate Gamlen, just in case someone feels I'm coming down too much on the guy. I just don't have time to talk about him here...this post is already a wall of text.