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Some things you need to know at this time about the Extended Cut (Updated 4/23/12).


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#76
Darth_Trethon

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DangerousPuddy wrote...

OP,

You don't know anything. Just like the many posts saying "ME3 will be great, mark my words I saw the demo!" look at them now...

I'll reserve judgement for myself, when it is released.


Everything he says makes sense and quite frankly BioWare AND EA would have to be complete idiots if they didn't realize what's at stake and don't take it seriously.

Of course there's always a chance they'll blow it but there's a lot more at stake than riding out the storm....it's about not losing most of their hardcore fans, about not having the market further flooded with another massive wave of returned copies and just as important it's about making good as much as they can with the casual audience less interested in talking and compromising and more interested in finding another game to play after they return ME3.....making good with customers is extremely crucial for repeat business and they'd be stupid to underestimate the power of the word of mouth of their hardcore fans and the return of the casual fans.

They have A LOT of motivation to make this free DLC good, large and expensive....their future depends on it and they'd be idiots if they didn't appreciate the seriousness of the situation....if Hudson had a free hand to do whatever before with little to no supervision I GUARANTEE you that this is now closely watched by a hundred people that all want to ensure it doesn't get screwed up a second time.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 23 avril 2012 - 09:46 .


#77
Guest_Dominus Solanum_*

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Taboo-XX wrote...

Dominus Solanum wrote...

Just going to quote myself since I already commented in this kind of thread recently:

Dominus Solanum wrote...

They said straight up before the game was released your choices made through out the game will affect the ending.

They said straight up in the release announcement for the Extended Cut your choices made through out the game will affect the ending.

They said straight up they believe in the artistic vision of the ending and that they won't be changing it.

Which of these statements do you think will prove to be accurate? What exactly are you expecting from the EC? Because if it's something monumental, ground breaking or satisfying I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment.


What I "expect" is for it to simply be more palatable. What we have right now gags me before it reaches my mouth.


Then I applaud your persistent optimism about the whole thing. Even that meager expectation for something swallowable is a hope I would not reserve for myself. While completely on board to be wrong and to have a megaton bomb of awesome go off when the EC comes out, I have the feeling that if that was going to happen it would have happened a week after 3/6/12. 

#78
Taboo

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Darth_Trethon wrote...

DangerousPuddy wrote...

OP,

You don't know anything. Just like the many posts saying "ME3 will be great, mark my words I saw the demo!" look at them now...

I'll reserve judgement for myself, when it is released.


Of course there's always a chance they'll blow it but there's a lot more at stake than riding out the storm....it's about not losing most of their hardcore fans, about not having the market further flooded with another massive wave of returned copies and just as important it's about making good as much as they can with the casual audience less interested in talking and compromising and more interested in finding another game to play after they return ME3.....making good with customers is extremely crucial for repeat business and they'd be stupid to underestimate the power of the word of mouth of their hardcore fans.


Pretty much. It is entirely possible that they will botch it. I won't deny that. But given the Mass Effect teams success in the past I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Four or five months is MORE than enough time to work on the endings.

#79
Creston918

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Taboo-XX wrote...

 I do have time to post this because I'm waiting for funding to come through on a documentary I'll likely be doing for someone like PBS. I've got some down time.


I didn't mean it negatively. Your posts are very well constructed and enjoyable to read. :)

Yes, I do believe that they realize the capacity of the error simply based on the apparent evidence. **** went down and the implications are unpleasent (Prices drops! Price drops everywhere!).


I'm sure they see it, I just don't know whether they believe it's their fault, or whether they just feel unjustly targeted by a "vocal minority" as they undoubtedly still see us. As for the price drops, eh, they sold like 3 million copies, which is undoubtedly the bulk they will sell, so I don't know that they really care about price drops all that much.


 Yes, I do believe that this will hang over Casey Hudson's head in some capacity. Why? Because as you proably already know gamers don't forger being slighted nor do they foget peoples names. People are going to be wary of anything that has Mr. Hudson's name on it. That's a fact. I've seen people talk about it on the forum.


SOME gamers don't. Those gamers won't buy anything with EA(ware) on it anymore, so that already excludes Casey Hudson anyway. The large, large, large majority of potential EA customers has no clue who Casey Hudson is, and they'll happily buy the next dumbed-down EAware RPG which features even bigger swords, bigger t*ts, bigger 'splosions, and more of EA's "It's the new sh*t!" advertising.



That goddawful email comes from an EA email addres NOT a Bioware one. That tells me something.


What email are we talking about?


Hiding behind reviews scores is something that happens in MY line of work. Do you realize that they plaster that on bad movie too? Using words such as "Totally Rad" and "Jaw-Dropping".


I know, and it's again evidence of how badly Bioware has been tainted by EA's nonsense. Using the whole "ME3 has caused a bigger fan reaction than any other game in videogame history!" line as a positive was just disgusting. That said, Muzyka himself was quick to grab that "WE HAVE 75 PERFECT SCORES!" (thereby implying that those of us who didn't like it are a bunch of retards that don't understand his precious art.) So it's definitely something both groups like reaching for.


The people who were most interesed in buying Mass Effect 3 and haven't already are most likely aware of the nightmare that hangs over it now. We do not live in a dark age. Information spreads quickly. Anyone with a connection to the gaming world knows in some capacity about this debacle if they have been listening to the gaming news.


Yeah, but again, how many sales are they going to lose over it? I doubt it's going to be very many. on the flipside, EA does want the negative publicity to go away (Bad game sites! No more review copies for you!), so I guess that's why they caved on the EC DLC.

About my typo there, I too am human and make mistakes and typos are one of them. What I meant to say is that you don't have to "like" anyone or anything at Bioware but they deserve your respect as human being simply because all people have that right.


Sorry, didn't realize it was a typo. I just didn't really get the sentence. In the same vein, Bioware could have respected their customers by NOT lying to them before the game was released, but apparently that respect was too much to ask for? So where that's concerned, eh, they're not getting anything they didn't bring on themselves. *shrug*

#80
Cazychel

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Makrys wrote...

YES. Actually I DO think they care. You know why? Because they have cared since the beginning. The changes made to ME2, those were asked for by the FANS. The better combat, simpler inventory (though they scrapped it entirely which I was fine with), and more focus on relationships, ALL were met in ME2. Then people wanted more of the RPG elements in ME3. Bioware delivered with a good mix between the first and second game. People also wanted more guns and customization options... so, Bioware put in gun modding as well as numerous weapons. Bioware has also listened to the fans regarding their DLC. Many people wanted to see a DLC for Liara in ME2 considering her character got a short end of the stick, and had no opportunity to continue a romance with Shepard. Bioware listened and followed suit with the best DLC I have ever played to date. 

There are numerous other occasions, but for sake of time, and my fingers burning because of how fast I am typing this, I will end there. Bioware has been known listening to their fans and taking their input. To somehow suggest that all of the sudden now they simply don't care, is both ludicrous and pathetic. If they didn't care they wouldn't even bother with an ending DLC. Maybe it was planned from the beginning, maybe it wasn't. But the fact is they ARE doing it for the fans. So please, take your pessimistic view somewhere else. Bioware has always tried to listen to their fanbase. I have not lost faith in them yet, even though the ME3 endning was absolutely atrocious. I trust they have some sort of plan in all of this. If not, then my opinion of them will greatly change. But until then I will CHOOSE to hold on to hope. Like Shepard.


They have cared, does not mean they still care. While all what you said is true for ME2 and the input they took for ME3, the game itself has a different feel to it than everything before. The passion is gone. The passion for detail, the passion for the characters and their smaller stories are gone. Some missions are outright monotonous shooting galleries, feeling more like Gears of War than ME. Compare that to ME2 with all the variety in missions, scenarios and character moments. Even the scanning mini game requiered a bit of patience and intuition. And you could find side quests, too.
All the weaknesses in ME3 were overlooked by players, because the story was always good, the emotions were sometimes heart breaking and we wanted to see the ending - but not this ending.

There are glimpses of passion, though: Tuchanka was the prime example of what was right in this game. Rannoch was very good (though killing the Reaper by foot was rather silly). Jarvik was pretty good and informative. (though making him Day 1 DLC was really questionable, to say the least)

I hope as well, but what lies before us is more than a broken ending! It's a game with many cracks in it, but the miserable ending tore these cracks apart for everyone to see them. No DLC can ever fix that, it cannot make the flaws of the game unseen. It can salvage the story, perhaps. But I have doubts and a little bit hope.

#81
ThisOneIsPunny

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Easier to remain indifferent until dlc arrives than outright trust or vehemently distrust Bioware. Too many lies, contradictions, and, for lack of a better word, speculation on how this may go based on past games as examples. Not willing to bet either way, but not willing to walk away yet.

#82
Taboo

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The email in question (the one that erroneously quotes Entertainment Weekly) comes directly from EA. It's appalling to think about but Bioware has no control over what EA does. Production companies where I come from use things like that to simply make sales. And I know that it makes directors, actors angry etc but they can't do anything. I would go into about how I prefer to work independently simply because I refuse to work under someone else. That would require quite a bit of time and would derail the topic.

I have seen the sales reports data that has been released and the results are shocking. Three millions units sold in the first week and only one hundred thousand in the next and then ten thousand the next week. Where I come from that's BAD news. To make a profit you need to have consistent sales. I make no claim to knowing what the budget was but the implications caused by twenty dollars price drops are not good. Also EA's share has dropped from sixty dollars a share to fifteen. The fanbase really rustled those shareholders.

#83
Unschuld

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OP, thank you for making a rational criticism thread, rather than the usual vitriol. I may not agree with everything, but at least it's rational.

#84
Taboo

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Unschuld wrote...

OP, thank you for making a rational criticism thread, rather than the usual vitriol. I may not agree with everything, but at least it's rational.


Thank you for the kind words. 

Anyway I saw a comment about caring and such. When you create something, no matter how much you love it, someone will dislike it. It's just the way art is. Only the worst artists believe that their art is infallible and I haven't encountered much (The films of Andy Warhol make me :sick:) though.

Now when they announced this extended cut I could only venture to guess that they indeed conceded, simply because if they believed their art was infalliable they wouldn't be trying to do something about it. If Casey Hudson hated us and thought his game was peerless he wouldn't be involved with this.

Yeah, the situation sucks hard but only time will tell what will happen.

#85
clarkusdarkus

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Taboo-XX wrote...

Darth Asriel wrote...

OP- where was it proved false? That was an FAQ on THEIR website? Were they hacked? And more dialogue doesn't help the situation. Unless the added dialogue is the ability to tell starchild to kick rocks. I get your optimism but to me it's misplaced. "Clarificatio"n implies I simply didn't understand what occurred. I understood it just fine. It was garbage! BW says we can rebuild relays using dead reapers. How? A dead reaper is capable of indoctrinating people? The relays exploded, we all saw it. Now they say no they didn't. You can't correct your story over twitter! And if you correct something you must admit it was wrong. They aren't doing that. Nothing is wrong in their eyes. Hence clarification instead of retconning. They would rather retcon better story elements to save their broken ending.


I gather my information from the people who can offer direct insight to the devolpment process. Michael Gamble, the co-producer has direct insight into the final product and dropping direct hints on twitter saying implicitly that the relays being disabled in control means they are retconning.

You have to understand the the announcment was made by someone who probably doesn't have a direct link to the production team. They are given topical information only and with only topical information available we shouldn't be surprised.


i said this to the OP last night about it being on there website and all taboo said he didnt have time for people that listen to PR talk. It's on there website what there doing with the EC not someone leaking info on twitter. so i'll respectfully disagree and we can all wait for what the EC will be like.

#86
Kreid

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Makrys wrote...
YES. Actually I DO think they care. You know why? Because they have cared since the beginning. The changes made to ME2, those were asked for by the FANS. The better combat, simpler inventory (though they scrapped it entirely which I was fine with), and more focus on relationships, ALL were met in ME2. Then people wanted more of the RPG elements in ME3. Bioware delivered with a good mix between the first and second game. People also wanted more guns and customization options... so, Bioware put in gun modding as well as numerous weapons. Bioware has also listened to the fans regarding their DLC. Many people wanted to see a DLC for Liara in ME2 considering her character got a short end of the stick, and had no opportunity to continue a romance with Shepard. Bioware listened and followed suit with the best DLC I have ever played to date. 

There are numerous other occasions, but for sake of time, and my fingers burning because of how fast I am typing this, I will end there. Bioware has been known listening to their fans and taking their input. To somehow suggest that all of the sudden now they simply don't care, is both ludicrous and pathetic. If they didn't care they wouldn't even bother with an ending DLC. Maybe it was planned from the beginning, maybe it wasn't. But the fact is they ARE doing it for the fans. So please, take your pessimistic view somewhere else. Bioware has always tried to listen to their fanbase. I have not lost faith in them yet, even though the ME3 endning was absolutely atrocious. I trust they have some sort of plan in all of this. If not, then my opinion of them will greatly change. But until then I will CHOOSE to hold on to hope. Like Shepard.

100% agreed and quoted for great justice.

#87
Taboo

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clarkusdarkus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Darth Asriel wrote...

OP- where was it proved false? That was an FAQ on THEIR website? Were they hacked? And more dialogue doesn't help the situation. Unless the added dialogue is the ability to tell starchild to kick rocks. I get your optimism but to me it's misplaced. "Clarificatio"n implies I simply didn't understand what occurred. I understood it just fine. It was garbage! BW says we can rebuild relays using dead reapers. How? A dead reaper is capable of indoctrinating people? The relays exploded, we all saw it. Now they say no they didn't. You can't correct your story over twitter! And if you correct something you must admit it was wrong. They aren't doing that. Nothing is wrong in their eyes. Hence clarification instead of retconning. They would rather retcon better story elements to save their broken ending.


I gather my information from the people who can offer direct insight to the devolpment process. Michael Gamble, the co-producer has direct insight into the final product and dropping direct hints on twitter saying implicitly that the relays being disabled in control means they are retconning.

You have to understand the the announcment was made by someone who probably doesn't have a direct link to the production team. They are given topical information only and with only topical information available we shouldn't be surprised.


i said this to the OP last night about it being on there website and all taboo said he didnt have time for people that listen to PR talk. It's on there website what there doing with the EC not someone leaking info on twitter. so i'll respectfully disagree and we can all wait for what the EC will be like.


The people I don't have time for are the ones who are not willing to have a legitimate discussion without railroading everyone in the thread. The original PR statement is vague and isn't very well written. Seeing as the statement was made before production has occured I cannot believe that all the info should be derived from it. Things change in production to better suit the product. If anything, please understand that.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 23 avril 2012 - 10:16 .


#88
richard_rider

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The ending was strike 1, I'm viewing this DLC with suspicious skepticism, and I get a nagging feeling it'll be strike 2, but for now I'll reserve judgment; also there's no strike 3.

Most products only get 1 strike in my book, BW is lucky the first 2 games were good, and I actually care about the characters.

P.S. Stop trying to do the "PR spin, damage control" You messed up, BW, own your mistake, and make it right, people respect that a lot more then PR garbage. Only idiots fall for PR garbage.

#89
Creston918

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Taboo-XX wrote...

The email in question (the one that erroneously quotes Entertainment Weekly) comes directly from EA. It's appalling to think about but Bioware has no control over what EA does.


Oh, you mean that advertisement? Okay, I was confused there for a second. But in any case, yeah, it just shows how pathetic EA really is. That said, there's no real distinction between Bioware and EA anymore. For all intents and purposes, the Bioware of old is now just EA Canada. Heck, there's like, what, six studios now with the name Bioware? EA is raping that good name for all it's worth. In three years they'll release an iPhone app with the name Bioware on it, like they did with Origin.


I have seen the sales reports data that has been released and the results are shocking. Three millions units sold in the first week and only one hundred thousand in the next and then ten thousand the next week. Where I come from that's BAD news.


Really? Don't movies generally fall by like 70% to 95% in the next two weeks? Most games do. There's a reason publishers put all kinds of insane DRM on games just to thwart day one piracy, because it's where the most sales occur.



To make a profit you need to have consistent sales.


Errr, this is the games industry. Most sales are done in week 1. Yes, some games keep on selling (Call of The Same Game Over and Over again comes to mind, as well as the indomitable Skyrim) but for most games it's week 1 and week 2, and after that they slow to a trickle.


I make no claim to knowing what the budget was but the implications caused by twenty dollars price drops are not good. Also EA's share has dropped from sixty dollars a share to fifteen. The fanbase really rustled those shareholders.


It was 25, not 60. But yeah, their stock price dropped fairly badly. Whether that was because of the endings thing, eh, nobody really knows anyway. ME3 sold 3 million copies, which is more than ME1 and ME2 sold, so by that measure, the game's a pretty good success.

#90
Creston918

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richard_rider wrote...
P.S. Stop trying to do the "PR spin, damage control" You messed up, BW, own your mistake, and make it right, people respect that a lot more then PR garbage. Only idiots fall for PR garbage.


But if they stopped doing PR spin, there'd be like 500 EA-peons who wouldn't have anything to do? Those poor peeps need work too, you know! :whistle:

#91
clarkusdarkus

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Taboo-XX wrote...

clarkusdarkus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Darth Asriel wrote...

OP- where was it proved false? That was an FAQ on THEIR website? Were they hacked? And more dialogue doesn't help the situation. Unless the added dialogue is the ability to tell starchild to kick rocks. I get your optimism but to me it's misplaced. "Clarificatio"n implies I simply didn't understand what occurred. I understood it just fine. It was garbage! BW says we can rebuild relays using dead reapers. How? A dead reaper is capable of indoctrinating people? The relays exploded, we all saw it. Now they say no they didn't. You can't correct your story over twitter! And if you correct something you must admit it was wrong. They aren't doing that. Nothing is wrong in their eyes. Hence clarification instead of retconning. They would rather retcon better story elements to save their broken ending.


I gather my information from the people who can offer direct insight to the devolpment process. Michael Gamble, the co-producer has direct insight into the final product and dropping direct hints on twitter saying implicitly that the relays being disabled in control means they are retconning.

You have to understand the the announcment was made by someone who probably doesn't have a direct link to the production team. They are given topical information only and with only topical information available we shouldn't be surprised.


i said this to the OP last night about it being on there website and all taboo said he didnt have time for people that listen to PR talk. It's on there website what there doing with the EC not someone leaking info on twitter. so i'll respectfully disagree and we can all wait for what the EC will be like.


The people I don't have time for are the ones who are not willing to have a legitimate discussion without railroading everyone in the thread. The original PR statement is vague and isn't very well written. Seeing as the statement was made before production has occured I cannot believe that all the info should be derived from it. Things change in production to better suit the product. If anything, please understand that.


Things can change during the next couple of months your right and i hope the fire they had and passion they had for ME1/2 and half of ME3 returns during the process, as id love nothing more than to play the game again and maybe play the trilogy again.

#92
Taboo

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I can only make an assessment based off of film sales. But a box office smash can make top billings weeks in a row. Mass Effect 3 isn't Avatar but when something STOPS making money it's a bad sign. Consistency is what companies look for. Mass Effect has most likely earned back it's budget but has not earned back it's dissatisfied fanbase. Conservative estimates put the amount of protesters at something like 1.6 million. That's over half of three million (barely). If half of you customers don't like something. You have a problem. Furthermore we have to take into consideration all the people who have returned their copies of the games (a very small amount obviously). These are the people who are most disgruntled, the most angry, the most defiant. These people are the ones that will tarnish the game with word of mouth. Word spreads quickly. Let's say Bioware loses ten thousand customers ( a very liberal estimate) that's still a big deal.

#93
AcesRedd

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richard_rider wrote...

The ending was strike 1, I'm viewing this DLC with suspicious skepticism, and I get a nagging feeling it'll be strike 2, but for now I'll reserve judgment; also there's no strike 3.

Most products only get 1 strike in my book, BW is lucky the first 2 games were good, and I actually care about the characters.

P.S. Stop trying to do the "PR spin, damage control" You messed up, BW, own your mistake, and make it right, people respect that a lot more then PR garbage. Only idiots fall for PR garbage.


Me thinks you should use an analogy other than baseball.
Strike 1: Any mistake
Strike 2. There is no strike two for most games.
Strike 3. No strike three either.
What?

Also, the ending sucks. They're liars, and while I hope the EC is good I doubt it.

#94
TheOptimist

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I earnestly want to believe that everything in the OP is true, and I think the endings can be fixed in the manner described. We are simply going to have to wait and find out. Anyone can make a mistake. Having been told so clearly what the breakdown of that mistake was, I find it hard to believe the folks that created the rest of ME3 would make it twice. I await the EC with hope.

#95
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Lies are a part of the industry. Of course what you're told to say doesn't make you a liar in a mean sort of way. It's just unethical. That's the world we live in.

#96
Mad-Hamlet

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I like your optimistic point of view and the sound logic behind the arguments thereof. I'll get the EC pack regardless and, yes thanks to you, have a little more hope behind the doing of it.

On the other hand I do not have to respect anyone simply because they exist. Respect, like trust, is earned, not given. Bioware had, than they lost it. I'm not foolish enough to go off on a direct, expletive spewing jag but I don't feel any sense of affection or anticipation when viewing the label anymore.

Can that be rectified? Well, that's where your hope comes in I guess.

#97
Legbiter

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Eh, the EC will be a few more lines of dialogue some minor cutscene variations added in and epilogue cards explaing how the various squadmates and races fared after Shepard stopped the Reapers.

#98
Taboo

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Mad-Hamlet wrote...

I like your optimistic point of view and the sound logic behind the arguments thereof. I'll get the EC pack regardless and, yes thanks to you, have a little more hope behind the doing of it.

On the other hand I do not have to respect anyone simply because they exist. Respect, like trust, is earned, not given. Bioware had, than they lost it. I'm not foolish enough to go off on a direct, expletive spewing jag but I don't feel any sense of affection or anticipation when viewing the label anymore.

Can that be rectified? Well, that's where your hope comes in I guess.


Well, my view reflects my political and moral views. This however is not a place to discuss politics.

Bioware has lost my trust, that I am sure of but I refuse to dehumanize them in the process. I find the thought petty and childish. No I really don't like whats on my plate but at least Bioware is planning applying some sort of sauce to make the dish easier to swallow.

It sucks.

#99
Taboo

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Legbiter wrote...

Eh, the EC will be a few more lines of dialogue some minor cutscene variations added in and epilogue cards explaing how the various squadmates and races fared after Shepard stopped the Reapers.


Not a good mindset to have. An unlikely scenario simply because it shouldn't take four or five months to write some texts.

But mostly it doesn't make business sense.

No it won't be the greatest thing ever but it can't possibly get worse.

#100
Darth_Trethon

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Taboo-XX wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

Eh, the EC will be a few more lines of dialogue some minor cutscene variations added in and epilogue cards explaing how the various squadmates and races fared after Shepard stopped the Reapers.


Not a good mindset to have. An unlikely scenario simply because it shouldn't take four or five months to write some texts.

But mostly it doesn't make business sense.

No it won't be the greatest thing ever but it can't possibly get worse.


I don't think they are willing to understand what you're trying to explain or maybe they can't....it's kind of a hit or miss...you either have some knowledge about how business and the politics of the gamings industry work or you don't.