226 réponses à ce sujet

[nomoredruggs]

MattFini wrote...

More than likely, OP.

People don't understand that the PR release about the "extended cut" addresses the issue without addressing the issue. It had to be this way lest the public perception of the game go further into the toilet.

If they admitted, "yes, most people hate our ending and we messed up. We'll fix it" then the value of the game drops even more because BioWare admitted they messed up.

By saying that some fans were upset and they're adding to it, it makes them look good in the public eye, while saving face for their game.

We'll have to wait and see how the Extended Cut shapes up, but I think there's truth/value to what the OP says.

That's pretty much how it is, I believe. We'll know soon enough anyway. 

[Taboo]

nomoredruggs wrote...

MattFini wrote...

More than likely, OP.

People don't understand that the PR release about the "extended cut" addresses the issue without addressing the issue. It had to be this way lest the public perception of the game go further into the toilet.

If they admitted, "yes, most people hate our ending and we messed up. We'll fix it" then the value of the game drops even more because BioWare admitted they messed up.

By saying that some fans were upset and they're adding to it, it makes them look good in the public eye, while saving face for their game.

We'll have to wait and see how the Extended Cut shapes up, but I think there's truth/value to what the OP says.

That's pretty much how it is, I believe. We'll know soon enough anyway. 

I want people to know that you don't have to believe what I say. You are more than entitled to your own opinion. The only advice I do hope people take is that they need to be patient.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 23 avril 2012 - 11:23 .

[ReXspec]

Whether predictions of what the EC will look like are accurate or not, in the end, it comes down to baseless theories and eye-rolling speculation.

What we NEED is for Bioware to explain what the hell is going on with the EC.

We don't need Bioware to go into siege-mode and remain silent while fans flounder and their company leaks customer loyalty from dozens of holes.

THEY NEED TO TALK TO US. PERIOD.

I sincerely think the disconnect came when Bioware forgot that staying with reporters that you drank with, big CEO's that have given you obscene amounts of money, and game critics that will come riding to your defense only has one conclusion:

EVERYBODY LOSES.

The fans didn't win because we (according to Bioware's official statement on the EC) are not getting the ending we want.

Bioware didn't win because they are on the precipice of placing their creative reputation on a potential debacle and are now bleeding customer loyalty.

I can understand for not wanting to talk to the vast, unwashed, anonymous masses of the internet (especially after seeing the particularly nasty threats that spawned from the crowd) but there are still those in this community who are perfectly willing to be civil and talk about an alternative to their current "solution" to the ending.

[Taboo]

ReXspec wrote...

Whether predictions of what the EC will look like are accurate or not, in the end, it comes down to baseless theories and eye-rolling speculation.

What we NEED is for Bioware to explain what the hell is going on with the EC.

We don't need Bioware to go into siege-mode and remain silent while fans flounder and their company leaks customer loyalty from dozens of holes.

THEY NEED TO TALK TO US. PERIOD.

I sincerely think the disconnect came when Bioware forgot that staying with reporters that you drank with, big CEO's that have given you obscene amounts of money, and game critics that will come riding to your defense only has one conclusion:

EVERYBODY LOSES.

The fans didn't win because we (according to Bioware's official statement on the EC) are not getting the ending we want.

Bioware didn't win because they are on the precipice of placing their creative reputation on a potential debacle and are now bleeding customer loyalty.

I can understand for not wanting to talk to the vast, unwashed, anonymous masses of the internet (especially after seeing the particularly nasty threats that spawned from the crowd) but there are still those in this community who are perfectly willing to be civil and talk about an alternative to their current "solution" to the ending.

No one is winning in this debacle. No one. As I have stated previously communication from Mr. Hudson and Walters would have..............unplesent implications. More than likely they are under some agreement stating that they cannot say anything bad against the game. It's not hubris, it's corporate politics.

Bioware cannot give us anymore information because they don't have any. I addressed this concern in my original post. Please read if you feel so inclined.

[ShaneP]

I'm not going to criticise Bioware, I'm not going to heap praise on them, I'm not going to threaten to boycott them, I'm going to do the only thing that seems logical at this moment in time... and that's to sit and wait to see what they deliver before passing judgement.

It's nice that a lot of people with big egos can sit around telling everyone what Bioware are, and are not going to do with Extended Cut, but I am going to decide it's merits on my own.

[ReXspec]

Taboo-XX wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

Whether predictions of what the EC will look like are accurate or not, in the end, it comes down to baseless theories and eye-rolling speculation.

What we NEED is for Bioware to explain what the hell is going on with the EC.

We don't need Bioware to go into siege-mode and remain silent while fans flounder and their company leaks customer loyalty from dozens of holes.

THEY NEED TO TALK TO US. PERIOD.

I sincerely think the disconnect came when Bioware forgot that staying with reporters that you drank with, big CEO's that have given you obscene amounts of money, and game critics that will come riding to your defense only has one conclusion:

EVERYBODY LOSES.

The fans didn't win because we (according to Bioware's official statement on the EC) are not getting the ending we want.

Bioware didn't win because they are on the precipice of placing their creative reputation on a potential debacle and are now bleeding customer loyalty.

I can understand for not wanting to talk to the vast, unwashed, anonymous masses of the internet (especially after seeing the particularly nasty threats that spawned from the crowd) but there are still those in this community who are perfectly willing to be civil and talk about an alternative to their current "solution" to the ending.

No one is winning in this debacle. No one. As I have stated previously communication from Mr. Hudson and Walters would have..............unplesent implications. More than likely they are under some agreement stating that they cannot say anything bad against the game. It's not hubris, it's corporate politics.

Bioware cannot give us anymore information because they don't have any. I addressed this concern in my original post. Please read if you feel so inclined.

I aggree with what your OP said completely, but I honestly don't think there would be anything wrong with giving fans simple blurbs such as:

"The EC is still in the works right now and nothing is concrete.  Anyone have any input on what they'd like to see in the EC?"

Or something along those lines.  While I'm aware that coporate politics essentially bar employees from saying anything, I'm also aware that there are certain things they can say, and that they can still refer to their fans rather then stay silent.

That is what Bioware was about in the first place.  Fans had a sense that what they said made a difference and that Bioware needed money to make games, not makes games to make money.

[Pelle6666]

You seem to know what you're talking about, hope you're right.

[lillitheris]

I definitely would need to know this. Do you know any reliable source that could tell us this?

[Taboo]

PR is a funny thing. Ethics become much more grey as what Bioware is doing is trying to save their hides, which is a human response but it is also one that has garnered a great deal of scorn.

This is why the debacle is so awful because everyone is in the wrong at some point.

I'll make an update tomorrow about a personal experience doing PR for one of the most controversial films in the last ten years. THAT was not fun.

[Taboo]

lillitheris wrote...

I definitely would need to know this. Do you know any reliable source that could tell us this?

Could you be a bit more clear with what you want? I'd like to help.

[Kunari801]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

Eh, the EC will be a few more lines of dialogue some minor cutscene variations added in and epilogue cards explaing how the various squadmates and races fared after Shepard stopped the Reapers.

Not a good mindset to have. An unlikely scenario simply because it shouldn't take four or five months to write some texts.

But mostly it doesn't make business sense.

No it won't be the greatest thing ever but it can't possibly get worse.

Taboo, some people are still at the anger/bitter stage.  No matter how good the DLC will be, some people will not be satisified.  I would like them to redo everything after Anderson dies, but I know they aren't, so I've accepted that the endings as-seen can at least be improved by three things: 
- Fix the illogical arguments from star-kid- Expand on the differences and consequences of the three choices.  If they can pull in changes based on your prior decisions and war assets even better.  - Epilogue of our Crew and friends. (I'd rather they delete the Normandy crash but...) 

[Leafs43]

Pre-production was probably close to an end when the announced the extended cut.


Why do I know this?

Because they gave some clear concise answers regarding the ending and how the endings are not changing.

[ReXspec]

Taboo-XX wrote...

PR is a funny thing. Ethics become much more grey as what Bioware is doing is trying to save their hides, which is a human response but it is also one that has garnered a great deal of scorn.

This is why the debacle is so awful because everyone is in the wrong at some point.

I'll make an update tomorrow about a personal experience doing PR for one of the most controversial films in the last ten years. THAT was not fun.

I don't mean to come off as sarcastic or a jerk, but I also have an honest question:

What facts or merits have allowed you to give information in what is happening in Bioware?  Is what your saying conjecture?  Or is there first-hand experience?

[Taboo]

Leafs43 wrote...

Pre-production was probably close to an end when the announced the extended cut.


Why do I know this?

Because they gave some clear concise answers regarding the ending and how the endings are not changing.

As much as I hate to burst your bubble Mr. Gamble came here and confirmed that they haven't started production yet. That's still pre-production.

Sorry.

[Taboo]

ReXspec wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

PR is a funny thing. Ethics become much more grey as what Bioware is doing is trying to save their hides, which is a human response but it is also one that has garnered a great deal of scorn.

This is why the debacle is so awful because everyone is in the wrong at some point.

I'll make an update tomorrow about a personal experience doing PR for one of the most controversial films in the last ten years. THAT was not fun.

I don't mean to come off as sarcastic or a jerk, but I also have an honest question:

What facts or merits have allowed you to give information in what is happening in Bioware?  Is what your saying conjecture?  Or is there first-hand experience?

I have first hand experience with PR and use that experience to make an educated guess. I can't claim to know exactly what is going on but I know what kind of things happen in these situations. A good thing to do is to scour for every bit of relavent information that you can take.

[ReXspec]

Taboo-XX wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

PR is a funny thing. Ethics become much more grey as what Bioware is doing is trying to save their hides, which is a human response but it is also one that has garnered a great deal of scorn.

This is why the debacle is so awful because everyone is in the wrong at some point.

I'll make an update tomorrow about a personal experience doing PR for one of the most controversial films in the last ten years. THAT was not fun.

I don't mean to come off as sarcastic or a jerk, but I also have an honest question:

What facts or merits have allowed you to give information in what is happening in Bioware?  Is what your saying conjecture?  Or is there first-hand experience?

I have first hand experience with PR and use that experience to make an educated guess. I can't claim to know exactly what is going on but I know what kind of things happen in these situations. A good thing to do is to scour for every bit of relavent information that you can take.

Ok, so, based on your experience in PR Bioware is in siegemode right now because they don't want to commit a sort-of "corporate suicide."  I get that.  But wouldn't limited communication with the fans be better in the long run rather then clamming up for God knows how long, at the very least?

What caused the problematic ending in the first place was Biowares disconnected not just from their peers, but also the fans in general.  I'm seeing a bloody disaster with the EC if they continue down a similar (if not the same) road.

[Reptilian Rob]

LucasShark wrote...

I have to disagree:

From where I sit, the extended cut is far from an appology: it's a stalling tactic. It's doubling down on the rubbish which currently exists without fixing the core problems. This is like painting over a crack in the hull of your space shuttle: it'll look nice for a while, but it will come right back arround to cause more damage than the original problem did. And you can bet whatever vital orgin you choose that the only reason it isn't being charged for is because they'd have people wanting to drink an EA executive's blood by the time that announcement went out.

This is highly true. 

[Reptilian Rob]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I do not believe that Casey Hudson has resemblance to Snidely Whiplash. Why do I think they care? Because someone who didn't wouldn't take four or five months to make something for you and not charge you for it.

Goodness.

Hudson is totally Snidely.

He just needs a nice stache. 

[Baramon]

Taboo-XX wrote...

 I'd like people for just a moment, just one, to sit back and think about the implications about what we have here. Truly. Sit back and take it in.

Yep, I did, for about 5 minutes, then decided that it's just speculation at this point and we can all wish and hope and want and whine all we want.  We know absolutely nothing, really, no matter what EA decides to "enlighten" us with at this point. Until it's on my hard drive and I have the chance to evaluate it, nothing else matters.

I'm glad you're so well-informed though. Let us know when you have something concrete to report.

[sth128]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I'll adress my thoughts on the matter and what is happening at the offices right now base purely upon what I know about the situation.

...

Here's the secret guys: Bioware is in pre-production, they are still writing scripts, dialouge, and are storyboarding things...

I'm sorry, did you just say "I will now speculate base on zero concrete evidence"? Because unless you work at the (Bioware) offices, you have just defeated your own logic.

Regardless, BW cannot fix the ending without changing the ending. There's a reason we are upset by the apparent destruction of the ME universe: Shepard's actions (be it red, green, or blue) have dire consequences. If BW gives even an ounce of what you called "moment of happiness" by explaining "oh the Citadel didn't blow up and crash into Earth causing an extinction level event" or "oh the dextros aren't gonna starve" or "who needs the relays everything will be fine", they are nullifying the dire consequences.

It will be like the openings of ME2 all over again: you see Shepard sacrificing himself (needlessly) to save Joker, and then two minutes later, yay Shepard's back! This renders the whole death pointless.

Without consequences, the actions have zero impact (just like Shep's actions throughout the series have no real impact because the same RGB bubbles happen no matter what). If the Extended Cut circumvents the apparent dire consequences, then it will nullify the impact of that ending.

So not only do we have a terrible ending to start with, the EC kills the ending altogether and we have a pointless ending... You say they can't drop the ball twice, I say anyone who picks up the ball after it was dropped, will inevitably drop it again.

Unless you want Bioware to hold on to their balls forever...

Modifié par sth128, 24 avril 2012 - 12:00 .

[Taboo]

 I've seen some **** in my time and I mean BAD ****. I've seen turds turned into gold with literal feats of Alchemy. You can fix things. It is possible. In what degree however is the biggest question. In the case of Blade Runner it made it a masterpiece instead of a middling ball of odness. That was fixed by removing dialouge VO and adding a scene with a Unicorn. A UNICORN.

Siege mode is a good term but not in the way you'd expect. Let's make Bioware a castle for a moment and imagine that the protestors are sitting around waving whatever they want. Bioware is foolish to no acknowledge our existence as is the King in the castle EA. You cannot bide time for five months with something like this and not have anything to show for it. It takes time to allocate resources and you can trust me on that because I've been waiting for quite a while to get funding myself. Anyway, in four or five months time Bioware had better have forged a damn good game in their forge...........because if they don't.

I make estimates based on work experience. It's my job and I refuse to lower myself to the level of caged animal in order to prove a point.

[Taboo]

sth128 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I'll adress my thoughts on the matter and what is happening at the offices right now base purely upon what I know about the situation.

...

Here's the secret guys: Bioware is in pre-production, they are still writing scripts, dialouge, and are storyboarding things...

I'm sorry, did you just say "I will now speculate base on zero concrete evidence"? Because unless you work at the (Bioware) offices, you have just defeated your own logic.

Regardless, BW cannot fix the ending without changing the ending. There's a reason we are upset by the apparent destruction of the ME universe: Shepard's actions (be it red, green, or blue) have dire consequences. If BW gives even an ounce of what you called "moment of happiness" by explaining "oh the Citadel didn't blow up and crash into Earth causing an extinction level event" or "oh the dextros aren't gonna starve" or "who needs the relays everything will be fine", they are nullifying the dire consequences.

It will be like the openings of ME2 all over again: you see Shepard sacrificing himself (needlessly) to save Joker, and then two minutes later, yay Shepard's back! This renders the whole death pointless.

Without consequences, the actions have zero impact (just like Shep's actions throughout the series have no real impact because the same RGB bubbles happen no matter what). If the Extended Cut circumvents the apparent dire consequences, then it will nullify the impact of that ending.

So not only do we have a terrible ending to start with, the EC kills the ending altogether and we have a pointless ending... You say they can't drop the ball twice, I say anyone who picks up the ball after it was dropped, will inevitably drop it again.

Unless you want Bioware to hold on to their balls forever...

Gamble............said so as has the other staff memebers when they attended their four hour meeting last week. I'm not speculating.

[Clumsy Astronaut]

I would say the presentation is a good 75% of a well done video game ending. Concurrent themes and a consistent conflict with a logical resolution are the other 25%. My problem is that the ending we have now fails on both accounts. We get 3 copy paste cutscenes with no closure, so a fail at presentation.
The addition of the Catalyst at the end and a pretty unimaginative way to shore up the Reaper's reasons to reap is also a fail.

A really well done EC can bring the ending to a 75% In my book, still a bad ending for a series that I would easily rank 95% before the ending, but it is… bearable.

[Taboo]

 Mr. Gamble just tweeted that he has spent eight hours in a meeting. That's...........my God.

[Sublyminal]

Taboo-XX wrote...

 Mr. Gamble just tweeted that he has spent eight hours in a meeting. That's...........my God.

eight hours in a pre-production meeting... ick.