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[Annie_Dear]

Here are some pictures of Stockholm's Old Town:

[Das Tentakel]

Begemotka wrote...

As many people mentioned before on this thread,more dynamic interplay of light / shadow could add tons of atmosphere...as would more immersive ambient sound /music. Thief was a stealth action game where the shadows were actually co-stars,whereas they are obviously less important in a game like DA.It was not bad in DAO (around the campfire comes to mind),but the effects still felt "detached" somehow,not part of the world.To me,anyway. I would still welcome some more of this: (Pics are from Thief 3 :Deadly Shadows,2004  - oh and the audio dept. was top-notch there,too).

Ah, Thief. Still a hell of an atmospheric game, and worth playing. Of course, DA comes from another direction entirely, the Neverwinter Nights I meets KOTOR direction, but still...

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

When I think of Nevarra I see a combination between the Tevinter and the Anderfells. They are though, unshakable people as I see them. Their architecture could look a bit like this maybe:



Strong, tough, but elegant like Cassandra and maybe a bit Russian?

Well, I'll place a slightly larger post tomorrow on the Nevarra thread, but my thoughts are slightly different. First, it is anybody's guess what Bioware will make of Nevarra. However, when you look at the map of Thedas, and assuming weather patterns and climate more or less follow sensible patterns, it's a good guess it's considerably warmer than Orlais, while Anderfels is going to be pretty hot.
If Orlais is (northern and central) France in terms of climate, then Nevarra will be somewhat like southern France and the northern parts of Spain, Italy, and the Balkans. Fairly green, but with very warm summers and some patches that get really hot and scorched. Summer forest fires and all that.

The Kremlin and Russian architecture are *mentally*  way too strongly linked to Russia, its culture and climate. Combining this with a country with a Spanish name (Navarra, a historical kingdom and modern region in what is now northern Spain, one letter difference), what should be a pretty warm climate and a weird accent (Cassandra's accent sounds neither particularly German nor French, what the hell is it supposed to be?) and you get a really odd combination.
That's the problem with easily recognisable architecture, accents etc. Their mental associations are so strong, that just mixing them up just feels wrong.

HOWEVER...

The Kremlin's fortifications, and its palaces, were actually designed by western (particularly Italian) architects. While the Moscow Kremlin itself is too well known and regarded as quintessentially 'Russian', there is a building that influenced it, but nevertheless looks distinctive. And was constructed in exactly what is likely to be analogous to Nevarra's 'climate zone'.

That building is the fortress palace of the Sforza Dukes of Milan. As you can see, it looks a bit like the Kremlin, but different. It therefore looks neither Italian (if people will even recognise distinctively 'Italian' fortification styles) nor Russian. It is...different.







Interior courtyard:




Note the galleries and the balcony, 'lightening' up what is actually a pretty grim and strong fortress on the outside.

Major corner tower:




Edit: Ooh, just recognised the relief on the Tower. If you look carefully, you'll see the arms of the Visconti, the predecessors and matrilineal ancestors of the Sforza Dukes.
It´s a big serpent devouring a man...Nice people, the Visconti;)

The thing is, if you try to envisage the city of Nevarra itself, think of this as its main wall (make it a bit higher, even).  Make it a nice even red, but lighter than the Kremlin. Like any self-respecting city, she should have more than one wall.  An outer wall could be a different colour even, or the same, but in this style:



If you look at the battlements of the Kremlin, these are actually in the same style. In northern Italy and environs, they are also used on fortified bridges, etc. They are often in a different colour (painted or coloured bricks) than the rest of the wall. And if you look at the pictures of the Castello Sforzesco, you will see the same type of battlements again, albeit covered by roofs.

So think of Nevarra (a possible and probably never-to-be-realised Nevarra) city like this: Walls like the Castello Sforzesco, but a bit higher, red and with white battlements, covered by brightly coloured tiled roofs; a lower outer wall surrounding this inner wall, with roofless battlements. Perhaps with red walls and white battlements too, or the reverse. Massive gate towers decorated with reliefs and paintings, celebrating past rulers, Andraste, and the slaying of dragons; fortified bridges crossing the Minanter River...





(biker for a sense of scale )
It's not going to happen, but hey, we can dream:unsure:

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 04 mai 2012 - 07:07 .

[Das Tentakel]

@ Annie Dear:
Beautiful pictures. As far as I know, Stockholm is one of the more beautiful cities of Europe. I once visited when I was five, on our way to visit Swedish relatives (in Norrbotten...).
Unfortunately, the family car made intimate contact with a Swedish tree a bit north of Stockholm:(.
Sweden had (and has) good hospitals, though:unsure:.

[TEWR]

Das Tentakel wrote...

Well, I'll place a slightly larger post tomorrow on the Nevarra thread, but my thoughts are slightly different. First, it is anybody's guess what Bioware will make of Nevarra. However, when you look at the map of Thedas, and assuming weather patterns and climate more or less follow sensible patterns, it's a good guess it's considerably warmer than Orlais, while Anderfels is going to be pretty hot.

I believe Nevarra is Egyptian in some respects. I know the way their dead are taken care of is reminiscent of Egypt. Elaborate tombs and such.

The Anderfels I believe were said to be a land of extremes, both hot and cold. I think Riordan said it's cold and that the Wardens there were shaped by the winter.

[Das Tentakel]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Das Tentakel wrote...

Well, I'll place a slightly larger post tomorrow on the Nevarra thread, but my thoughts are slightly different. First, it is anybody's guess what Bioware will make of Nevarra. However, when you look at the map of Thedas, and assuming weather patterns and climate more or less follow sensible patterns, it's a good guess it's considerably warmer than Orlais, while Anderfels is going to be pretty hot.

I believe Nevarra is Egyptian in some respects. I know the way their dead are taken care of is reminiscent of Egypt. Elaborate tombs and such.

The Anderfels I believe were said to be a land of extremes, both hot and cold. I think Riordan said it's cold and that the Wardens there were shaped by the winter.

There is talk of tombs, but these do not have to be architecturally Egyptian in any way. That would be highly unwise, anyway, because of popular mental associations. They might be more like Etruscan tombs, perhaps stylistically mixed up a bit with medieval Romanesque and Gothic elements.


(The Van Zuylen van Nijevelt family crypt in De Haar castle. Not Egyptian or Etruscan, but very, very pretty.)

As for Anderfels, if Weisshaupt is in the upland interior, they would face very hot summers and very cold winters, a continental climate. A bit like the interior of Turkey and Spain. Or the uplands of Armenia and Kurdistan.
But other areas would have a different climate, northern Anderfels might conceivably be more like Sicily or western Turkey.

Unless Bioware decides that climate and weather patterns that make sense is for losers who care about things like suspension of disbelief and so on, which is their right and prerogative of course.



The winter in Armenia is cold...



and bleak...Enjoy Armenia? Only in a hotel with modern central heating, thank you very much .

But if the area around Weisshaupt is like this, well, it's going to be fun. And, erm, very German-looking:whistle:.

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 03 mai 2012 - 10:25 .

[Vovea]

I love this thread so much. I'm just coming in to look at pretty pictures.

@sjpelkessjpeler
Pretty much exactly how I imagined Nevarra, just a little less lush.

[Vovea]

I thought of Nevarra as quite a bleak place, less bright vegetation and what not.

[Annie_Dear]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

@Annie_Dear the third picture is really great. If the path leading to the Viscount had looked like that it would have really been eye candy.

That is actually the Swedish House of Parlament. It's right next to the Royal Castle.

Das Tentakel wrote...

@ Annie Dear:
Beautiful pictures. As far as I know, Stockholm is one of the more beautiful cities of Europe. I once visited when I was five, on our way to visit Swedish relatives (in Norrbotten...).
Unfortunately, the family car made intimate contact with a Swedish tree a bit north of Stockholm.
Sweden had (and has) good hospitals, though.

I'm sorry to hear that. That's really a bummer.

Stockholöm is a beautiful city, especially the Old town. I'm jealous that they have such a beautiful capital city while we In Finland only have Helsinki...

[Das Tentakel]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Vovea wrote...

I thought of Nevarra as quite a bleak place, less bright vegetation and what not.

Assumptions are made because of the geografical location and what is known from the surrounding parts
Here is the map:



As described in posts above there are green and lesser green areas in Nevarra maybe desertlike even.

In this regard, I completely missed Brockololly's post much earlier in this thread....

Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, I wish the actual climate and geography of some of the regions in Thedas were more clearly specified. I mean, you can sort of guess how things are on the map, but the actual games don't seem to follow. As is, it all seems very hodgepodge. Like Ferelden is supposed to be kind of on the colder side since its in the far south, yet it never really seemed that way consistently in Origins.

Thats one thing I really liked about Skyrim was how they were able to make the various areas of the nation very unique, yet they all felt internally consistent under the notion that Skyrim was the northernmost area in Tamriel. In DAO many of the locations just felt like generic "Forest level" or "Snow level."

I agree. I don't have any sense of distance and scale either.
Bioware isn't bound by any expectations based on the map and real-world climates, but assuming they more or less follow these as guidelines, then you might get things like:

Par Vollen: tropical (Indonesia, Philippines)
Seheron: subtropical (Florida)
Rivain: anybody's guess really. Subtropical or perhaps a bit more Mediterranean. Think Florida meets coastal Queensland meets Sicily.
Tevinter, Antiva: Mediterranean: southern fringe of Europe (Andalusia, Greece, Turkey, Sicily) and coastal North Africa / Lebanon. Interior would be more continental, maybe even somewhat arid, like the interior parts of Spain and Turkey.
Anderfels: Possibly a bit subtropical or 'Mediterranean' in the north, and a somewhat extreme version of continental climate in the interior. Think Turkish and Spanish interior, uplands of Armenia and Kurdistan.

Ironically, actual Navarra might be a pretty good fit, in terms of landscape and climate, for Nevarra. It's extremely diverse, with parts looking pretty bleak. It can be really pretty, but it can be harsh, alright. It's no wonder its people were known as good soldiers in the medieval period, and that they played a key role in the early phases of the Spanish Reconquista.

Some landscape pictures:






















As you can see, huge variation depending on the area and the season.
For the Americans among us: Navarra is a region in Spain 2.5 times the size of Rhode Island...a bit over 10,000 square kilometres.

These lands and their vegetation know seasonal extremes, getting green and colourful in the spring, but scorched and brown (except where there's enough water) in the summer. You know, if I lived there, I would also get pissed, and go forth and conquer Moorish Spain. Or kill Orlesians and steal their fat land.

Of course, some parts of 'Nevarra' would be pretty green and well-watered, for instance mountain regions that catch enough rain and are cooler (less evaporation), and the basin of the Minanter river, of course. But if you want bleak, I think you can get bleak alright.

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 04 mai 2012 - 08:01 .

[Das Tentakel]

Begemotka wrote...

IIRC,Nevarra is an eclectic mixture of influences from Prussia,Egypt and Mesopotamia,and is rich in natural resources.However,nevarrans being famous for their dragonhunters,it makes me think of the nomadic tribes of Cental Asia.
Kazakhstan is the world`s ninth largest country in terms of land area and is extremely diverse in climate,terrain,culture and ethnicity - and was historically populated by nomadic tribes.You will find snow-covered mountains,deserts,steppes,canyons,and the like.

{snippity snip gorgeous pictures snip snip)

Very nice!

Some of that would be credible for Nevarra, but not necessarily all of it. The deserts could be reminiscent of the 'Silent Plains'.

Kazakhstan as a whole, though, is VERY continental. It's entirely landlocked (well, if you disregard a bit on the Caspian Sea and the shrinking Aral 'sea'), and far away from any ocean.
Far more than any region in Thedas, it seems.
I think Kazakhstan on the whole, is a lot harsher than Nevarra and even Anderfels would be. Most of it is steppe and desert steppe, it's the oases and the areas near Siberia and cooler, wetter upland areas that look at least somewhat nice. In spring.

Nasty winters and hot summers, though. Temperatures can vary from minus 40 to 40 degrees Celsius. Imagine a milder version ('moderately hellish') for Anderfels, mix it up a bit with inland Spain, Turkey and Armenia, and I think you have a credible Anderfels.

The more I think of it, Anderfels sounds like a horrible place, really. Wouldn't be surprised if the Darkspawn who erupted there were as much defeated by King Winter and Empress Scorching Hot Summer as the Grey Wardens and their allies.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Tevinters probably dumped disgraced nobles, drunken Magisters and outlaw scum there to garrison the place .



'The Kocari Wilds are GREAT! The day I was reassigned from Anderfels to here was the happiest day of my life...'

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 04 mai 2012 - 10:26 .

[ReallyRue]

Speaking of Nevarra, I'd quite like to see the Silent Plains. I think they're there. I'm not sure what it would look like though, but it'd probably be interesting and create one hell of an atmosphere with a lasting impression. It would also be a good place to tie in whatever secret thing the Wardens are up to, or if the consequences of Legacy will have a lasting impact.

[Das Tentakel]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
[/i]Hmmmm, I saw a very pretty tomb earlier in this thread. Nevarran style maybe?

Well, here's a Christian era tomb from Syria:



Here's the interior.



Imagine these kinds of buildings, but with an interior more like the De Haar crypt, or a medieval Gothic sarcophagus:



Or like this Etruscan one:



I can well imagine Nevarrans visiting the family crypt, with their nice sarcophagi, at certain events (the anniversary of the death of the people who lie there, or something like 'The Day of the Dead') and having a nice meal, toasting the beloved dead.
Probably also a popular place for young lovers to meet out of sight and having some fun:innocent: