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[Brockololly]

Das Tentakel wrote...
I agree. I don't have any sense of distance and scale either.
Bioware isn't bound by any expectations based on the map and real-world climates, but assuming they more or less follow these as guidelines, then you might get things like:

Going back to something like Skyrim, while its a sandbox, the thing I love is the sense of scale and connectedness everything has. So, even though you know its in Skyrim, the far northern province in all of Tamriel, its not all just one big snow level. The environments make sense and because you can travel every inch of it and see how the terrain and weather changes based on the area you're in, it makes it feel so much more real. Like you can go on foot from Riverwood in the more temperate forests and go through the plains by Whiterun up into the snowy mountains to Winterhold where its always snowing and up into the glaciers at the Sea of Ghosts.

So in DAO if you were in Redcliff and you looked west, you might see the  Frostbacks, whereas if you looked north, you'd see more of Lake  Calenhad.  Or looking further south from the Korkari Wilds, you see the  Uncharted Terrirtories, which are supposed to be some frozen wasteland.

But going beyond that, make sure each area makes sense geographically and makes sense climate wise. Try to convey temperature and weather better. The Korcari Wilds are in the far south of Ferelden and Thedas. According to the lore, Thedas is in the southern hemisphere of the world they're on, so south = cold and north= warm. Yet visually, the warmer colors of the Korcari Wilds never made me think it was a cold location; same with Ostagar which is likewise far south. Whether that means adding some dynamic snow events, show some banners flapping in the breeze, show the breath of people when they're talking- just do something to convey temperature and climate better.

Das Tentakel wrote...
Par Vollen: tropical (Indonesia, Philippines)
Seheron: subtropical (Florida)
Rivain: anybody's guess really. Subtropical or perhaps a bit more Mediterranean. Think Florida meets coastal Queensland meets Sicily.
Tevinter, Antiva: Mediterranean: southern fringe of Europe (Andalusia, Greece, Turkey, Sicily) and coastal North Africa / Lebanon. Interior would be more continental, maybe even somewhat arid, like the interior parts of Spain and Turkey.
Anderfels: Possibly a bit subtropical or 'Mediterranean' in the north, and a somewhat extreme version of continental climate in the interior. Think Turkish and Spanish interior, uplands of Armenia and Kurdistan.

Ironically, actual Navarra might be a pretty good fit, in terms of landscape and climate, for Nevarra. It's extremely diverse, with parts looking pretty bleak. It can be really pretty, but it can be harsh, alright. It's no wonder its people were known as good soldiers in the medieval period, and that they played a key role in the early phases of the Spanish Reconquista.

Yeah, I'd have to look at the big map of Thedas to think what kinds of climates all the locations might be. But generally, southern Thedas is supposed to be colder and as you go north it warms up. So something like the Donarks north of the Anderfels are supposed to be a jungle, I think?

So for areas like the Anderfels or the Silent Plains which are supposed to be blighted, I think, I'm guessing they'll look like a desert, since the beginning of DA2 was supposedly what land looks like after its been affected by the Blight. I'd hope they make a more visually interesting desert than DA2, but whatever.


Just another thought too, do we know what kind of seasons exist on Thedas? I'm guessing normal, but who knows if its not something crazy, like A Song of Ice and Fire where seasons can last for years and years. But considering BioWare hasn't really even done anything with any dynamic weather, going into seasonal changes is probably a bit much.

Modifié par Brockololly, 05 mai 2012 - 05:11 .

[Lady Lystra]

I picture Tevinter looking like ancient Rome for some odd reason, lol

Modifié par Lady Lystra, 05 mai 2012 - 05:51 .

[TEWR]

Brockololly wrote...

So for areas like the Anderfels or the Silent Plains which are supposed to be blighted, I think, I'm guessing they'll look like a desert, since the beginning of DA2 was supposedly what land looks like after its been affected by the Blight. I'd hope they make a more visually interesting desert than DA2, but whatever.

DAO had a soldier claiming that the Darkspawn turn the land black because of their presence. Whether that was mere exaggeration or the truth I don't know, but I always took it to be the truth considering they were on the edge of the Darkspawn horde and probably did see their fair share of tainted land within the Wilds.

[Das Tentakel]

Regarding the Silent Plains, the Blight and the Taint, it's hard to get a good idea of what it looks like. Sometimes the Taint is like HIV, it's going to kill you in the end. And sometimes it's a bit like radio-activity - the sci-fi kind, killing you either slowly or mutating you.

However, assuming that, as in parts of Anderfels, the plains are dead because of the Blight, that means the vegetation cover has gone. Desertification would have set in, and the winds would blow the topsoil away. Think of dust- and sandstorms, sometimes driving (still-tainted?) sand into the 'healthy' neighbouring lands.

Within the Plains themselves - ruins of towns, villages, fortresses, temples, tombs. Riverbeds and lakes choked with dust and sand, turned into muddy pools. Perhaps here and there life has returned, but has become warped. If Darkspawn roam there, it must be for some purpose. Food? Ancient artefacts?

It's also smack between Tevinter and Nevarra. I imagine there would be trade across the Silent Plains, with armed caravans. Fortified caravanserai, maybe even Tevinter and Nevarran forts, supplied all the way from their respective homelands. Maybe, like the Pharaonic Egyptian army supply depots they found in the Sinai, fresh water has been brought in bulk by foot, horse and pack-mule, stored in watertight, maybe even magically sealed cisterns of the kind Sjpellekesjpeler posted.



Beneath the lonely sands, the hand of a buried statue of a long-dead Archon...
Orlesian graffiti, damn Philistines...





A dead riverbed...



Life is returning, but having a hard time. And while it looks nice, don't drink the water...and by the Maker, don't swim in the lake...





A melancholy abandoned Tevinter fort...







The grass is returning, but don't let your horse eat it...











(Okay, she isn't pretty. But the beds in the inn inside those walls are comfortable, and they have a fine selection of Orlesian stinky cheeses. Just don't go outside after dark)

On the edges of the Silent Plains, the sand encroaches on still-healthy land...Maybe active measures are needed to prevent their spread. Perhaps, in the summer, when the Silent Plains are scorched, the sands blow, and the Darkspawn come in their wake, looking for food...and women...



http://blufiles.stor...06_1OVJJYkldB18





The last examples, believe it or not, are actually examples of what is left of a process of 'desertification' in the Netherlands. In the medieval period, in some areas the forests were cut and there was serious overgrazing, and large areas of sandy mini-deserts evolved. And then these began to spread. Entire villages were swallowed by the sands, and barriers were erected to keep their spread in check. These days, reforestation has rolled the sands back.
Perhaps the people of Tevinter are forced to do the same? Erect long lines of banks and ditches, plant trees and grass between them, perhaps turn them into a kind of green 'Hadrian's Wall' against the sands and the marauding Darkspawn?

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 06 mai 2012 - 06:55 .

[Brockololly]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
Regarding the silent plains, the first blight took place about 1300 years before the dragon age. Nobody knows how long it takes for the lands to recover. The darkspawn will not be very numerous above ground because of the
fact that there is no blight going on so not much more additional taint.
Food for thought I guess.

Yeah, even though the whole Blighted landscape thing is supposed to be permanent I think, I'd imagine you'd have some vegetation and life, but its all mostly stunted and really struggling to thrive.

So maybe some place similarly blighted, like most of the Anderfels would look something like the area around Mt St Helens after the big eruption:





Where everything is sort of frozen in time from when the Blight actually happened, with the ash coating everything. Maybe almost like Pompeii and Herculaneum where everything is sort of frozen in time. Or the area around Chernobyl where its just completely deserted and nature is sort of taking it back. So maybe the Anderfels have some old abandoned fortresses or areas still so heavily blighted they're still desolate but then, like the area around Mt St Helens, you have areas where nature is creeping back in.

[TEWR]

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, even though the whole Blighted landscape thing is supposed to be permanent I think, I'd imagine you'd have some vegetation and life, but its all mostly stunted and really struggling to thrive

Depends really. There are some plants that only grow in Blighted soil and thrive very easily. Ines the Botanist is researching the Northern Prickleweed in Awakening, which is rumored to grow in such soil.

I believe there were also a few others that do the same thing.

I imagine that the Taint warps vegetation just as much as it does animal life, so you may see trees that have changed considerably from what they originally looked like.

[Das Tentakel]

Brockololly wrote...

Going back to something like Skyrim, while its a sandbox, the thing I love is the sense of scale and connectedness everything has. So, even though you know its in Skyrim, the far northern province in all of Tamriel, its not all just one big snow level. The environments make sense and because you can travel every inch of it and see how the terrain and weather changes based on the area you're in, it makes it feel so much more real. Like you can go on foot from Riverwood in the more temperate forests and go through the plains by Whiterun up into the snowy mountains to Winterhold where its always snowing and up into the glaciers at the Sea of Ghosts.

So in DAO if you were in Redcliff and you looked west, you might see the  Frostbacks, whereas if you looked north, you'd see more of Lake  Calenhad.  Or looking further south from the Korkari Wilds, you see the  Uncharted Terrirtories, which are supposed to be some frozen wasteland.

But going beyond that, make sure each area makes sense geographically and makes sense climate wise. Try to convey temperature and weather better. The Korcari Wilds are in the far south of Ferelden and Thedas. According to the lore, Thedas is in the southern hemisphere of the world they're on, so south = cold and north= warm. Yet visually, the warmer colors of the Korcari Wilds never made me think it was a cold location; same with Ostagar which is likewise far south. Whether that means adding some dynamic snow events, show some banners flapping in the breeze, show the breath of people when they're talking- just do something to convey temperature and climate better.

The ‘sunny’ nature of the Kocari Wilds or Ostagar were not a problem to me. Even Scandinavia can be sunny, green and colourful in spring and summer. The real problem here for me, I think, was not the vegetation or the light, but the fact that the Tevinter architecture, with their white stones, felt somehow too ‘southern’. In Europe, that kind of stone is often associated with castles, manors and cathedrals in France, Spain and Italy, and Roman buildings. Just as irregularly shaped mortared stone is associated with, say, Scotland and many German castles, and red bricks with the Low Countries, Northern Germany and parts of Scandinavia and former German lands in Poland.
Moreover, that kind of ‘ white’  stone ruins, without any form of maintenance, would quickly turn ´green´ in a northern climate due to plants and mosses colonizing them. They were waaaaaaaay too clean.

The combination made the Kocari Wilds and Ostagar simultaneously ‘undefinable’ and ‘generic’ to me, while also feeling somewhat ‘off’.
Having snowcapped mountains in the distance would have helped creating that ´northern feel´. So would rainy weather conditions. And more evidence of the weather eroding ruins...Ostagar basically looked like a castle after an earthquake, not a fortress that has been abandoned for centuries. Ruins like that only survive in exceptional, generally arid circumstances, like rocky deserts. Places like Syria – the pictures I posted of the ruined buildings were from the so-called ‘Dead Cities’ of Syria.

Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, I'd have to look at the big map of Thedas to think what kinds of climates all the locations might be. But generally, southern Thedas is supposed to be colder and as you go north it warms up. So something like the Donarks north of the Anderfels are supposed to be a jungle, I think?

So for areas like the Anderfels or the Silent Plains which are supposed to be blighted, I'm guessing they'll look like a desert, since the beginning of DA2 was supposedly what land looks like after its been affected by the Blight. I'd hope they make a more visually interesting desert than DA2, but whatever.

Well, hah, I recently simply turned the map of Thedas upside down. Silly I did not recognize it before – it’s a warped, deformed version of the map of Europe. It becomes much easier to recognize what was supposed to resemble what, at least initially in Bioware’s plans, and where they, accidentally or on purpose, changed things.
Yes, I think the Donarks are jungle, or ought to be jungle.

The DA2 desert confused the hell out of me. I also think I saw Tevinter roads magically transformed into spiky architecture, as if somebody in the art department decided ‘Okay, the Tevinter Empire was evil, period, and its architecture should look evil’ Bring in the spikes! I want Mordor, not Gondor!’
Thing is, in DA:O the Taint did not seem to have affected the land – much. Not even parts of the Deep Roads that had been controlled by them for generations had been really warped. It was only near the Broodmother’s nests that things turned warped. Same in Awakening.
That was somehow more believable, because it made the Taint really feel like a kind of ‘sickness’ spreading from the actual dwelling places of the Darkspawn, and immediately signalled to the players that things were about to turn really sick and creepy.

It was very unfortunate that Bioware decided to abandon this and go for the DA2 Blight look, as it didn’t make sense coming from DA:O, and also created big logical problems. If the lands near Lothering had been this badly changed by the Blight, then how are things in Denerim? Is Ferelden even still inhabitable?
I guess the Continuity Police and the Narrative Logic Police were on strike during DA2’s development...

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Your last paragraph is an interesting one. If dynamic weather cannot be implemented and the climat in Tedas is like that as in The Song of Ice and Fire the scenery can be adjusted to that what is happening at that time. If it's a cold period, although we cannot see it snowing, trees, houses and the ground can be covered in snow. And if your thoughts apply on the klimat in Thedas it's a warmer period right now. This explains the greener surroundings in the Korcari Wilds where you would think it more cold.

I seem to remember it actually rained in Awakening. Dynamic weather should be implemented anyway, at least in the form of rain and lighting. If appropriate, snow and dust storms as well. Though I can understand it if these are only implemented in areas that are either covered in snow already or desert areas. One thing I’d like Bioware to do is, if they again use ‘forward jumps in time’, that they let you revisit earlier areas, but clearly in another season, like winter or autumn. Of course, it shouldn’t be a pure reuse of the area with another ‘seasonal skin’, but there should also be some actual changes (different NPC’s, some buildings destroyed or new ones constructed etc.). That would also help creating the illusion of a ‘living world’.

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 06 mai 2012 - 08:06 .

[Das Tentakel]

Okay, for the second part I collected these comments...

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
Regarding the silent plains, the first blight took place about 1300 years before the dragon age. Nobody knows how long it takes for the lands to recover. The darkspawn will not be very numerous above ground because of the fact that there is no blight going on so not much more additional taint.

{snip}

The lore is really vague about the taint and there is no proof that it will last for ever. If that would be the case Ferelden would be tainted for the most part because of the blight that took place there.

Correct me please if I'm wrong here but in Awakening the warden returns to Ostagar and the landscape looks pretty simular after the arch demon is slain. Although he emerged somewhere near there.

The silent plains as I understand it is the place the arch demon Dumant was slain but the battle covered a big part of Thedas at that time. Thedas has recovered from the darkspawn but only the silent plains where the taint was the most still wear the scarves.

The Taint and the Blight seem to be suffering somewhat of ‘inconsistency disease’, and I expect ‘retcon syndrome’ occurring anytime. Sometimes it looks like a infectious disease; at other times as some kind of radiation. Its effects and nature seem to vary depending on what the plot demands. I wonder if even Bioware’s writers know...or made up their minds.
That means that any speculation, no matter how clever or compatible with existing lore etc., is probably going to be ‘wrong’. Including mine, heh.

But...it seems to me the ‘Silent Plains’ are called that for a reason. They are probably still largely empty, and even if life is slowly returning, I imagine this would be patchy, precarious and often misshapen.

Speculation is cheap, even if it probably will turn out to be wrong, so my guess is going to be that the severity of the corruption/degradation of an area depends on the intensity and the duration of the Darkspawn presence. The Silent Plains lie more or less between two main centres of human settlement, the Minanter river basin and the Tevinter heartland. Maybe the centre of Dumat’s ‘ Blight’ was here, and the Grey Wardens and their allies did not so much stop him here, but actively sought him out in the centre of his expanding domain. The continuing devastation of the area would then, indeed, be the result of a particularly long and intense Darkspawn occupation here, not the battle itself.

Of course, any magics used by both sides during the battle, and the many deaths, may have caused the boundary between Thedas and the Fade to get thin here. And that, in turn, would complicate any ‘normal’ recovery.
Maybe not only armed trader caravans and Tevinter and Nevarran patrols and occasional bands of Darkspawn linger here, but demons as well. Not to mention apostate Mages in hiding (hmmm...Silent Plains as a fun place for Abominations?).
And as for warped animals...well, of course they do roam around!

Although we’re speculating here, I am thinking of Old Ashos in the game Two Worlds II. In that game, New Ashos is the location of the wizards’ university, Old Ashos having been destroyed in a magical catastrophe. When your character enters that area, you find an area where most life has perished, and what is left consists of warped monstrosities, which are actually pretty well-designed and original (if sometimes badly animated...better next time, Zuxxez!).

Brockololly wrote...
...maybe some place similarly blighted, like most of the Anderfels would look something like the area around Mt St Helens after the big eruption

[snip]

Where everything is sort of frozen in time from when the Blight actually happened, with the ash coating everything. Maybe almost like Pompeii and Herculaneum where everything is sort of frozen in time. Or the area around Chernobyl where its just completely deserted and nature is sort of taking it back. So maybe the Anderfels have some old abandoned fortresses or areas still so heavily blighted they're still desolate but then, like the area around Mt St Helens, you have areas where nature is creeping back in.

I thought the first picture very fitting. Not sure about the rest, though they are great and haunting pictures. Thing is, Mt. St. Helens was a blast, and the dead trees are evidence of this.
Then again...if explosive magics were used, there might be areas where trees – possibly already dead – were blown over in exactly the kind of way you are seeing.

The Pompeii and Herculaneum bodies are the results of a volcanic eruption, not sure anything analogous would be credible for the Silent Plains. But the idea of ‘life frozen’ is a nice one. Perhaps there are places where magics turned combatants to stone. Places were people and Darkspawn were vapourized, creating shadows on the walls of ruins.
Also, corpses might never have rotted completely, at least where they were protected from moisture (the Silent Plains are a fairly continental location, but I think not without rain).
There might be places were fallen soldiers, Darkspawn, maybe even refugees hiding out in caves or isolated, strong fortresses holding out against the Darkspawn – perished but their bodies were preserved.
If so, maybe they look like these ancient bodies:

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Depends really. There are some plants that only grow in Blighted soil and thrive very easily. Ines the Botanist is researching the Northern Prickleweed in Awakening, which is rumored to grow in such soil.

Perhaps that these plants will grow first in areas that are the most lightly affected by the Blight – perhaps the margins of the Silent Plains? Perhaps they even have a useful function, slowly ‘purifying’ the land? Maybe they were even magically created exactly for that purpose? Wild speculation, I know, but fun:).

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 06 mai 2012 - 08:51 .

[Das Tentakel]

A few small additions regarding Nevarra and the Silent Plains:



As the surface dries out completely during the summer, the dust starts to stir...



...and there goes the summer harvest in the northern borderlands of Nevarra.

After the Silent Plains speak, the Darkspawn follow...

[M0RD3CA1 VII]

No pix, but I'm interested in seeing Orlais, the Tevinter Imperium, and a Qunari city ...

What would a Qunari city look like? It'd probably be blander than Kirkwall lol ...

[deuce985]

All I know is...Bioware hopefully finds some serious professional VOs to do Orlais accents in DA3 because they're annoying in both games. All the great VOs in these two games and Orlais characters sound completely fake...and annoying. Mark of the Assassin DLC was driving me nuts.

If we sit in Orlais for the next game...I hope it isn't long...or Bioware found some serious talent...

I'm more interested in Tevinter Imperium than any other place personally.

Modifié par deuce985, 07 mai 2012 - 06:40 .

[Das Tentakel]

A final batch of ‘Nevarra pictures’.
I had these still lying around, so here they are without further ado…
It’s a mix of architecture and landscapes.

















(Yes, it can snow in Nevarra, I suppose…the natives are also very friendly:)



Here's a pleasant place to relax from some dragon slayin’. And still somewhat defensible:





A place somewhat reminiscent of Orlais? Perhaps a disputed border town?





This doesn't look too shabby as, say, the family seat of a clan of pious dragonslayers:





Well, the last time the Orlesian army passed this way...well, you get the picture...





Of course, it can get warm in Nevarra, I suppose:



The interior of a royal fortress-palace – or noble manor – doesn’t have to look as Spartan. Thick walls on the outside – to keep dragons and pesky Orlesian out – but nice things on the inside…









Of course, what would a Nevarran fortress-palace be without the obligatory dragon slayin’ scene?

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 07 mai 2012 - 08:00 .

[Das Tentakel]

And the final final part

Some Nevarran civilian architecture?









Landscapes:











Nevarra appears to have some big lakes. Yes please!



http://www.villavill...&type=lgallery3