449 réponses à ce sujet

[Abreu Road]

For that, you have to see Starchild as a godlike, benevolent being, which we cannot confirm. Bioware staff themselves said to not take everything he said into consideration. They kind of imply that Starchild could be lying.

You said yourself "this is the only interpretation that would make sense", and let me tell you, it is. It's probably one of the few interpretations of Synthesis that are good ones. The rest are bad. The rest are Hitler pressing a Space Magic button.

Seeing Synthesis the way you claim, really, it's not a bad thing. It's still a cluster****ing retarded thing (the synthesis, not your theory), but not a bad one.

**** is, Walters and Hudson, in all their wisdom, wanted us to speculate. So, taking that into consideration, Synthesis still could be a good thing like you said, or a terrible, dictatorial, almost-genocidal one.

People believing that it's a bad thing doesn't means that they want to keep whining. Bioware wanted speculations. That's what they got. Alongside whining, raging, hatin', and people complaining that the others did not understand the ending.

But one thing we know for sure: every information we had in the series pointing to an amalgam of synthetic and organic form leads to something know as husks, banshees, brutes, and other beautiful lifeforms. They do not lead to a good thing.

[lx_theo]

Navasha wrote...

theo... let me ask you a question.

Lets say you go to a doctor for a cold. He gives you a pill and you pass out. You wake up a few days later in a hospital. The doctor comes in and says, "Great news". We have fundamentally changed you. We have removed all of your gastrointestinal system. You no longer can eat, and must now take nourishment through these IVs, but its for the best. This way you have no chance of getting stomach, throat, or colon cancer."

"But I didn't ask for this... ", you say, "I enjoy eating.. I like tasting food. I don't want to have to shove a needle in my arm to get nourishment".

To which the doctor replies, "I know you didn't know about this or ask for it... But I am your doctor and I know what is best for you.".

How would that make you feel?

What is synthesis taking away? Without that, the comparison is null and void.

[viperabyss]

lx_theo wrote...

Its plenty valid of a rebuttal. You're assuming everything is replaced with machinery or something else a bit out there, it seems like. 

While I agree they probably haven't went in depth in explaining synthesis (That'd take a lot of time/resources itself), it's definitely possible.

Ehh.... no. Wolverine is not a synthesis. He's a human with replaced bones. To say he's a combination of organics and synthetics is like saying people who has bone replacement surgery is also a combination of organics and synthetics.

And you know why they didn't go in depth with the explanation? Because it cannot be explained. Synthesis means a full combination of organics and synthetics, even down to the molecular level. Except the fact that organics and synthetics cannot be combined, because those two are fundamentally different. Take the logic process for instance. Organics based their logic process on emotions and moral. Synthetics based their logic process on 0 and 1. You cannot combine the both of them, and expect it to work. It either has to be a synthetic mind controlling an organic body, or vice versa.

And don't give me "well, you don't know what will happen in the future". When the difference exist at a fundamental level, there's nothing you can do.

[Saul Iscariot]

Maybe I should try sleeping with the radio on?

[Zuka999]

Zuka999 wrote...

Synthetics don't have DNA

I guess I'll just leave this here again, since you're all carrying on this conversation even though its literally not even possible in the slightest. Its not possible in this universe, its not possible in the Mass Effect universe. Its just. not. possible.

[Comguard2]

It's useless discussing about this because you're trying to make sense out of something that was never supposed to make sense.

The writers didn't have a clue what they were doing. What I'm not sure: if they can realize in retroperspective what they've done wrong. And, if they do so, they can admit their mistake and fix it.

[Cobretti ftw]

CDHarrisUSF wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

You're an idiot. Of course I know how DNA works. I'm not in grade school.

Ever think that a cross would be a combination of DNA and the synthetic method of existence that doesn't require DNA?

You can say that you know it all you want, but it doesn't make it true. You have yet to demonstrate any understanding of these concepts. You just keep asserting that it works as if we're supposed to accept such a huge pile of bulls#!t presented as one throwaway line in the last couple of minutes of the story. Enlighten us, oh mighty lx_theo, as to exactly how this one pulse of energy works its magic.

How does it create organic matter where there is none? How does it create synthetic parts where there are none? How does one single pulse understand how to cope with every possible variation of DNA (and any alien equivalents) it will encounter? How does it modify DNA such that the reproductive process will produce cyborg offspring (otherwise they'll be back to organics in one generation)? How does it do this all flawlessly when one random mutation in the wrong gene can cause fatal birth defects? How will the resulting beings still look and act like the races they came from when a 2% difference is all that separates us from chimps? How will the offspring's body intake synthetic "food," then break it down and use it to build synthetic parts (otherwise they would be all organic)? How does all of this happen in the blink of an eye? Even if you could come up with a cross between synthetics and human DNA, how does modifying the DNA in the cells of already existing humans not screw up the delicate and heavily interdependent processes which are necessary to continue living... which depend on reading instructions from human DNA? When an important bodily function goes looking for instructions in the cells' DNA and finds something else in their place, how is the organism going to cope with that?

Feel free to go into as much detail as possible... since you say you understand how it all works. I eagerly await an explanation as to how this ending is anything more than a patently ridiculous idea which was supposed to come off as high-minded and philosophical... but fell flat on its face.

haha this will be fun

[Cadeym]

lx_theo wrote...

Navasha wrote...

theo... let me ask you a question.

Lets say you go to a doctor for a cold. He gives you a pill and you pass out. You wake up a few days later in a hospital. The doctor comes in and says, "Great news". We have fundamentally changed you. We have removed all of your gastrointestinal system. You no longer can eat, and must now take nourishment through these IVs, but its for the best. This way you have no chance of getting stomach, throat, or colon cancer."

"But I didn't ask for this... ", you say, "I enjoy eating.. I like tasting food. I don't want to have to shove a needle in my arm to get nourishment".

To which the doctor replies, "I know you didn't know about this or ask for it... But I am your doctor and I know what is best for you.".

How would that make you feel?

What is synthesis taking away? Without that, the comparison is null and void.

It's not about what it's taking away, it's about what it's actually altering. How have the Geth changed now that they have been exposed to synthesis. What about organics. Does synthesis alter how plants work. What about animals. Is to cannibalism to eat animals now. Do we even need to eat, drink or sleep. How do Geth eat.  How do Geth reprogriate now that they are aparently organic beings.

[DJBare]

lx_theo wrote...
Because the kid is your only outlet of knowledge. If you don't trust him, its like picking where the coin is under from three differently colored cups. 

If you don't trust him on that, why trust that destroy will even destroy the reapers and not just send the paralyzation stasis the collectors used against every organic in the galaxy?

If you're not going to trust him, you can't pick and choose based on how you want to see the ending. 

Why don't I trust him?

Catalyst: you can destroy all synthetics if you want, even you are part synthetic.

And then my Shepard takes a breath

I have plenty of reason not to trust him.

[nitefyre410]

Comguard2 wrote...

It's useless discussing about this because you're trying to make sense out of something that was never supposed to make sense.

The writers didn't have a clue what they were doing. What I'm not sure: if they can realize in retroperspective what they've done wrong. And, if they do so, they can admit their mistake and fix it.

 

The answer to both of your question is...

no they can not. 

[Qutayba]

I have two problems with the synthesis ending, one thematic and one logical.

Thematically, the strength of the Mass Effect universe is its diversity. There are different kinds of DNA bases, there are synthetics, and there are hybrids of organic and synthetic processes (such as almost every single major character in ME2). It's all wildly chaotic, and it's wonderful. In the world we have many different languages with many different writing systems. If you force everyone to use a single writing system, sure you will still have a diversity of languages, but the level of that diversity has been diminished. Homogenization, even if it's not complete, moves in the opposite direction of so many of the central themes of Mass Effect.

But if that's not enough, there's the simple logical silliness of it. Organic life grows and reproduces through chemical processes (DNA replication). Synthetic life grows and reproduces through mechanical processes (they are designed, constructed, and modified). Suddenly making everyone have a new kind of DNA simply makes them all organic. Assuming the basic laws of physics and chemistry have not been changed as well, nothing prevents building more synthetic lifeforms.

The theme of transhumanism is a strong one in the Mass Effect series, and so many of the characters are already transhuman, incorporating both synthetic and organic elements. And isn't this EXACTLY what the Reapers already are, constructs built with the raw material of the genetic slurry of entire species?

Synthesis makes about as much sense as being able to control the Reapers by dying (I assume that Shepard "ascends" to higher state in the blue ending, even though the Catalyst does say that you will "die and lose everything.")

[lx_theo]

Cobretti ftw wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Cobretti ftw wrote...

THe funny thing is, you dont know what a DNA is ¬¬

WTH is the "synthetic equivalent of DNA"? Wtf does it do?

I know how DNA works, jackass.

Adn if you want your answer, feel free to scour the thread to find this discussion that was already had.

I HIGHLY doubt that you know the absics. Since the definitions of a DNA is contradictory to your argument.

And no, you didnt answer WTH does a "synthetic equivalent of DNA" do?

No, no it isn't. As a top of my class senior in high school, I'd be very dissapointed in myself if I didn't understand how DNA works. You know, acing Biology and all that.

I'll say it one last time. By equivalent, I'm referring to the life sustaining method in which synthetics use like how DNA is the life sustaining method for organics. Synthesis would combine the best of both worlds, and yada, yada yada (Not saying it again)

I can say I don't have any single thing to point to being a single object equivalent of DNA, only methodology.

[lx_theo]

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...
Because the kid is your only outlet of knowledge. If you don't trust him, its like picking where the coin is under from three differently colored cups. 

If you don't trust him on that, why trust that destroy will even destroy the reapers and not just send the paralyzation stasis the collectors used against every organic in the galaxy?

If you're not going to trust him, you can't pick and choose based on how you want to see the ending. 

Why don't I trust him?

Catalyst: you can destroy all synthetics if you want, even you are part synthetic.

And then my Shepard takes a breath

I have plenty of reason not to trust him.

Yay blue! Part only means parts wil be destroyed. Shepard can easily be severely injured in that scene because of it.

[Norrax]

lx_theo wrote...

 Why do people think that Synthesis would make organics cyborgs or something along those lines? It makes no sense that people would be forced into a cyborg form. In fact, it makes so little sense that it also doesn't make sense that anyone would think that's what it meant. A bit... perplexing, I must say.

The Catalyst told of how synthesis would create a new DNA. He said nothing about how it would alter the physical forms of anyone. What does make sense is that if Synthesis only effects DNA and Sythetic's equivalent. They would be merged to create one fundamental building block of life rather than the two distinctly different ones that were there before. A Geth would simply be another species, like a Human is to a Turian. This is actually the only way it can make sense. If people were transformed into synthetics or cyborgs or something along those lines, it destroys the ability to write a future story coming after because of the huge variation it would force. People still have their free will. They still have their individuality. They are still who they are. The only logical interpretations of synthesis would be ones that change species at such a fundamental level that it can put them on the same playing field without changing the uniqueness of each species and individual. Any interpretation that does not take this in account will not make sense. I don't really understand why anyone would think those to be true. Maybe they are so bitter at the ending they choose to look for the interpretation they can hate on the most?

So please, stop making the silly threads attacking the Synthesis option.

please dont op dont post idiotic posts, when you understand abosulty nothing about biology and/or cybernetics.

[Muhkida]

Seeing how there's no such thing as an end to evolution, I'm going to assume that synthesis won't completely end the ongoing battles between synthetics and organics. At some point, one or the other is going to progress and change enough to the point where diversity will be an issue again...as if they weren't diverse enough to begin with.

Therefore, I see synthesis as moot.

Modifié par Muhkida, 23 avril 2012 - 11:03 .

[DJBare]

lx_theo wrote...
Yay blue! Part only means parts wil be destroyed. Shepard can easily be severely injured in that scene because of it.

Fine, you win, you are obviously a very smart and intelligent individual with a god complex, enjoy your thread.

[Aaleel]

I haven't read through this entire thread, but I'm shocked it's actually gone on this many pages.

A cyborg is something that has organic and synthetic parts, the video of Joker at the end shows this to be exactly what the case is. Joker is a cyborg, so how are people jumping to conclusions by saying the result would be cyborgs?

[Pockydon]

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...
Yay blue! Part only means parts wil be destroyed. Shepard can easily be severely injured in that scene because of it.

Fine, you win, you are obviously a very smart and intelligent individual with a god complex, enjoy your thread.

LOL! I agree with you mate, this just isnt even worth the effort...

[lx_theo]

Mouseraider wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Navasha wrote...

theo... let me ask you a question.

Lets say you go to a doctor for a cold. He gives you a pill and you pass out. You wake up a few days later in a hospital. The doctor comes in and says, "Great news". We have fundamentally changed you. We have removed all of your gastrointestinal system. You no longer can eat, and must now take nourishment through these IVs, but its for the best. This way you have no chance of getting stomach, throat, or colon cancer."

"But I didn't ask for this... ", you say, "I enjoy eating.. I like tasting food. I don't want to have to shove a needle in my arm to get nourishment".

To which the doctor replies, "I know you didn't know about this or ask for it... But I am your doctor and I know what is best for you.".

How would that make you feel?

What is synthesis taking away? Without that, the comparison is null and void.

It's not about what it's taking away, it's about what it's actually altering. How have the Geth changed now that they have been exposed to synthesis. What about organics. Does synthesis alter how plants work. What about animals. Is to cannibalism to eat animals now. Do we even need to eat, drink or sleep. How do Geth eat.  How do Geth reprogriate now that they are aparently organic beings.

In my interpretation, everything is basically the same, except for minor changes that make it so that synthetics are naturally part of the organic group. People are the same, Geth are the same. Very minor differences physically are brought about by a new DNA. The code of the new DNA still makes the same organisms, with the same sentience and such, only that the new DNA is also apart of synthetic and etc.

[ArchDuck]

You must have missed this reply before (again): <_<

ArchDuck wrote...

If this isn't a cyborg what is?

Notice the circuitry?

[lx_theo]

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...
Yay blue! Part only means parts wil be destroyed. Shepard can easily be severely injured in that scene because of it.

Fine, you win, you are obviously a very smart and intelligent individual with a god complex, enjoy your thread.

Lovely, it's like you didn't listen to a word I said, Mr. God of Destruction.

[RShara]

lx_theo wrote...

In my interpretation,

This is the problem with all of the endings

[Cadeym]

lx_theo wrote...

Mouseraider wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Navasha wrote...

theo... let me ask you a question.

Lets say you go to a doctor for a cold. He gives you a pill and you pass out. You wake up a few days later in a hospital. The doctor comes in and says, "Great news". We have fundamentally changed you. We have removed all of your gastrointestinal system. You no longer can eat, and must now take nourishment through these IVs, but its for the best. This way you have no chance of getting stomach, throat, or colon cancer."

"But I didn't ask for this... ", you say, "I enjoy eating.. I like tasting food. I don't want to have to shove a needle in my arm to get nourishment".

To which the doctor replies, "I know you didn't know about this or ask for it... But I am your doctor and I know what is best for you.".

How would that make you feel?

What is synthesis taking away? Without that, the comparison is null and void.

It's not about what it's taking away, it's about what it's actually altering. How have the Geth changed now that they have been exposed to synthesis. What about organics. Does synthesis alter how plants work. What about animals. Is to cannibalism to eat animals now. Do we even need to eat, drink or sleep. How do Geth eat.  How do Geth reprogriate now that they are aparently organic beings.

In my interpretation, everything is basically the same, except for minor changes that make it so that synthetics are naturally part of the organic group. People are the same, Geth are the same. Very minor differences physically are brought about by a new DNA. The code of the new DNA still makes the same organisms, with the same sentience and such, only that the new DNA is also apart of synthetic and etc.

Then what is the purpose of it, and how can it be classified as the final stage in evolution. The Geth and organics will still be two entirely different species. By using the Catalysts own logic, neither have been altered from their original form nor the way their "body" works, which leaves us at the beginning where they will eventually wage war on one another.

Modifié par Mouseraider, 23 avril 2012 - 11:03 .

[Zix13]

Pockydon wrote...

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...
Yay blue! Part only means parts wil be destroyed. Shepard can easily be severely injured in that scene because of it.

Fine, you win, you are obviously a very smart and intelligent individual with a god complex, enjoy your thread.

LOL! I agree with you mate, this just isnt even worth the effort...

[Cobretti ftw]

lx_theo wrote...

Cobretti ftw wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Cobretti ftw wrote...

THe funny thing is, you dont know what a DNA is ¬¬

WTH is the "synthetic equivalent of DNA"? Wtf does it do?

I know how DNA works, jackass.

Adn if you want your answer, feel free to scour the thread to find this discussion that was already had.

I HIGHLY doubt that you know the absics. Since the definitions of a DNA is contradictory to your argument.

And no, you didnt answer WTH does a "synthetic equivalent of DNA" do?

No, no it isn't. As a top of my class senior in high school, I'd be very dissapointed in myself if I didn't understand how DNA works. You know, acing Biology and all that.

I'll say it one last time. By equivalent, I'm referring to the life sustaining method in which synthetics use like how DNA is the life sustaining method for organics. Synthesis would combine the best of both worlds, and yada, yada yada (Not saying it again)

I can say I don't have any single thing to point to being a single object equivalent of DNA, only methodology.

And you REALLY cant see why that is absurd? and makes no sense?

What exaclty is the "synthetic life sustaining" method? HOW does it work? Something that coordinates the "creation" of new synthetic components?

what exactly is "the best of both worlds?" since theya re tottaly diferent, and with different purpuses?