449 réponses à ce sujet

[Skirlasvoud]

I can assure you, that most of us are not under the assumption that the universe turns into cyborgs. You have messed up the interpretation of our complaints.


Simply put and no matter how you will state it: Synthesis messes around with the building blocks of life. It is supposed to CHANGE something.
How do I know this? Well, there wouldn't be much point to synthesis if it wouldn't. If you change something, but all its tangible qualities stay the same, than that means you haven't changed anything after all. While I don't know what exactly synthesis does, it is supposed to "resolve" organic - synthetic conflicts. Oh, and it gives everyone a green glow apparently. How this is accomplished isn't clear, but we must draw the conclusion that Organic life is no longer able to war on the Geth or Reapers, and vice versa. 


And there you have it: Synthesis' ugly truth. It robs people of free will and their identities on a genetic level. How it does it is not clear, but where before the Quarians were defined by warring on Synthetics and the Geth by  their quest for true intelligence, these things are now taken away from the by a green beam fired from the Citadel. You might say that this is not so bad, but I sure like to disagree. No matter how ugly war is, it is an expression of sentient kind and a bad decision that people have the right to make. No matter how impossible the Geth's search for true intelligence, their desire for SELF-improvement makes them human. 
Synthesys takes away freedom of choice by imposing the Starchild's view on evolution on the galaxy.  Maybe the the Quarians and Geth could have figured out a solution on their own that was much beter than the starchild's, but we'll never know. Synthesis has robbed us of self-improvement by forcing another state. 


There's only one name for that. Nay, there's several:
- It's fascism with a luminescent, 12 year old despot at the helm.
- It's mass rape with pregnancy as a consequence, when you force genetic change on an unaware populace.
- It's performing a galaxy wide lobotomy in the same line as clockwork orange, to supress violent tendencies.


What's more: The Reapers were already doing the very thing in their own way, absorbing organics into a synthetic framework. This dogma has seen them cause unmentionable suffering, which we tried our hardest to fight. Yet in the end, we're forced to accept they may be right and we STILL carry out this dogma, but in a different way.


Walters and Hudson can slice it, dice it, tie a ribbon around it and slap a mystic GCI sequence on top, but Synthesis is a horrible, horrible thing to do. If you endorse it, you're no better than some of the worst names in WW2 history.

Casey can keep his ubermensch, genetic salvation and forced evolution. I'd rather shoot the damn tube than put up with his fascism.

Modifié par Skirlasvoud, 23 avril 2012 - 11:31 .

[lx_theo]

anorling wrote...

So what lx_theo is trying to say is forcing synthesis on an entire galaxy is ok because it changes nothing?

No, because it changes one very important thing. It creates empathy.

If organics and synthetics are one in the same (through minor changes), it makes species like the Geth become more like just another species out there in space like the Asari and Turians and such. 

A person will feel much more emphathy and willingness to collaborate when they they don't have that fundamental difference that makes each life worlds more alien than even aliens.

Of course, there will always be people who hate others for being different like some already do in humanity against aliens, but that will be there in any scenario. This is about as big of a step as one can do.

[Cobretti ftw]

Subguy614 wrote...

The Geth aren't actually machines. Tali says it (again) on the Geth destroyer. The Geth are SOFTWARE.

How do you get DNA from software???

Exaclty.. thats one of the problems that he cant understand.

There is no such a thing as" synthetic equivalent of DNA". Its not a matter of " it is fiction so it is possible", there would be NO NEED FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AT ALL.

[chuckles471]

iakus wrote...

chuckles471 wrote...

iakus wrote...

chuckles471 wrote...

Sorry, but changing human DNA (all DNA) is horrendous.

DNA makes you as a person, you are the product millions and millions of years of generations of animals conquering nature(making new niches), just to pass on their DNA just to make you.  And for Shepard to survive all that crap and go "yes let's give up every thing that makes us human", is just BS.

"Is submission not preferable to extinction?"  

It is extinction, your DNA will not be passed on to a new genertion but the catalysts ideal DNA will be put into you like some kind of sex parasite.  Yes, that means they win at "survival of the fittest" and we as a race are weeded out.

Just thought I'd toss that Saren quote out there since he thought that having the strengths of both and the weaknesses of neither woiuld be a good idea too.

Of course, he was indoctrinated at the time, and never met the ollectors.

reapers.  Collectors.  Synthesis.  Hmm...

Yeah ,  but who believes a guy who can easily be convinced to blow his own brians out.

[sth128]

Cobretti ftw wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

I never claimed to know how Synthesis would work in detail. In fact, IU have repeated on NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS THAT I HAVE NOT DONE THAT. Yeah, I'm the troll...

The point was never that I could show an in depth explanation of Synthesis, but that any reasonable way that Synthesis could be explained is if the change made as minute difference as possible, in contrast to others who claim outrageous changes as facts.

So take that stick out your butt and beat yourself with it, because you seem to be out of ammo.

So you actually have no answers and Synthesis does make no sense! Okay, thanks for more or less admitting it. I guess we're done here.

*facepalm*

No, you just are incapable of reading what I've wrote across here.

in fact he is right because what you have written makes noo sense at all.

I concur. Theo isn't making much sense. He just said he "doesn't know how Sythesis works", but "it only makes minute changes"...

And also, when he runs out of ammo, he has a backup melee weapon stored in his rear compartment.

Dude, use your omni-blade.

Modifié par sth128, 23 avril 2012 - 11:31 .

[ArchDuck]

ArchDuck wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...
Because the kid is your only outlet of knowledge. If you don't trust him, its like picking where the coin is under from three differently colored cups. 

If you don't trust him on that, why trust that destroy will even destroy the reapers and not just send the paralyzation stasis the collectors used against every organic in the galaxy?

If you're not going to trust him, you can't pick and choose based on how you want to see the ending. 

Why don't I trust him?

Catalyst: you can destroy all synthetics if you want, even you are part synthetic.

And then my Shepard takes a breath

I have plenty of reason not to trust him.

Yay blue! Part only means parts wil be destroyed. Shepard can easily be severely injured in that scene because of it.

Another reason not to trust him is because you tells you other falsehoods right in his statements. The easiest on to see is the "pinnacle of evolution" BS he spews.

The catalyst logic is wrong. Evolution by definition has no pinnacle.
Also if it did, you could not know what form that would be unless you also knew, with 100% certainty, the exact course of the future.

So, can the reapers/catalyst know the future with 100% certainty?
If the answer is "no" then they have no clue what the pinnacle of evolution is.
If the answer is "yes" then there is nothing to discuss because they can do and know the impossible so reapers win, the end.

Another one is the lie about this solving the problem of organics and synthetics.

To quote myself from earlier in this thread (since I didn't see a response to that post):

ArchDuck wrote...
What is stopping the organic/synthetic hybrids from making more pure synthetics or organics (or both)?

The synthesis ending does not actually stop the reason that the reapers say they are doing this for. After all, pure synthetics and organics can be made in the future and eventually pure organic life will evolve again.


This ending also destroys the current path of evolution across the galaxy, is being based off of a false idea of evolution having a pinnacle and presents forcing it on others with no thought to whether they want to be genetically rewritten as right...

But you can continue being an apologist of the ending if you like, that is your right.

If you enjoy it then please continue to do so, but please stop trying to say that the rest of us need to start enjoying it or stop explaining why we don't enjoy it.

Just reposting this, hoping for a response.

[DJBare]

lx_theo wrote...


Of course, there will always be people who hate others for being different like some already do in humanity against aliens, but that will be there in any scenario. This is about as big of a step as one can do.

You just utterly destroyed your entire argument in one sentence.

Modifié par DJBare, 23 avril 2012 - 11:32 .

[Cadeym]

You don't see humans back here in real life getting along all that well do you? apart from minor differences we are almost always at war with eachother. Why? because of what we believe in.

If synthesis doesn't dramatically alter everyone to be of the same species then there will be another war. Because synthetics can still exist efter the use of synthesis, that means that it is possible to create new AI. That means that not using the crucible would have accomplished the exact same thing as using it.

Modifié par Mouseraider, 23 avril 2012 - 11:35 .

[stevefox1200]

Will a Synthesis Chicken have the same DNA? If so, if I eat it is that cannibalism?

Will there be little metal parts in a Synthesis burger?

How will we be able to breed? Are infants just formed with synthetic parts or is there like a machine in the womb that would like "instal" them? If so how does that work?

[lx_theo]

Zuka999 wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

*facepalm*

No, you just are incapable of reading what I've wrote across here.

Oh, I can read.

"You're an idiot. Of course I know how DNA works. I'm not in grade school.

Ever think that a cross would be a combination of DNA and the synthetic method of existence that doesn't require DNA?"

When your assertions that you a. understand DNA and b. have a potential solution to this issue was challenged you retreated and backtracked saying:

"I never claimed to know how Synthesis would work in detail. In fact,
IU have repeated on NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS THAT I HAVE NOT DONE THAT."

Then why claim you understand how DNA works or offer up your own solution? Even the most basic understanding of DNA and or, more importantly, fundamental physics, would show you that Synthesis is not possible under any circumstances. Least of all ones presented to us previously in the course of the Mass Effect IP!

I know how DNA works. If you really are suggesting I'm so stupid I don't... Feel free to meet up with me some time and I'll gladly punch your face in.

DNA is a coding for genetic information. It stores information on genetics, and passes them on to children (life sustaining method). It uses mRNA to bring to ribosomes to construct proteins to build the body out of from amino acids. Robots and AI use codes too. Its a matter of combining the two things. The details of how exactly would be a WIP at best for me, but the important part is the emphasis on that it would effect each species as minimally as possible in their free will adn change in lifestyle.

And maybe you forget, but this is sci-fi. You can't walk 10 feet in ME without coming across omething that isn't actually possible.

[lx_theo]

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...


Of course, there will always be people who hate others for being different like some already do in humanity against aliens, but that will be there in any scenario. This is about as big of a step as one can do.

You just utterly destroyed your entire argument in one sentence.

No, I didn't. But please, go ahead and ignore the rest of the post.

[Skirlasvoud]

lx_theo wrote...

anorling wrote...

So what lx_theo is trying to say is forcing synthesis on an entire galaxy is ok because it changes nothing?

No, because it changes one very important thing. It creates empathy.

If organics and synthetics are one in the same (through minor changes), it makes species like the Geth become more like just another species out there in space like the Asari and Turians and such. 

A person will feel much more emphathy and willingness to collaborate when they they don't have that fundamental difference that makes each life worlds more alien than even aliens.

Of course, there will always be people who hate others for being different like some already do in humanity against aliens, but that will be there in any scenario. This is about as big of a step as one can do.

You can't force people to have empathy!

That's liberal fascism.

You end up with this scene from Clockwork Orange:




Only, way more harsh since you're doing it on a galactic scale to EVERYONE. Make peace or I'll rewrite your DNA!

Modifié par Skirlasvoud, 23 avril 2012 - 11:41 .

[sth128]

Cobretti ftw wrote...

There is no such a thing as" synthetic equivalent of DNA". Its not a matter of " it is fiction so it is possible", there would be NO NEED FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AT ALL.

Well, that's not technically true. DNA is the biological equivalent of a digital recording. The molecular structure serve as a storage for genetic instructions (eg. how to grow limbs, organs, etc.).

A synthetic DNA would probably be software instructions for nanites which serve similar functions as organic cells. Within each micro-synthetic cell there would be digital storage of instructions for repairs, adaptation, mutation, etc.

The problem comes in the fact that DNA is inherently flawed. Every time a cell copies itself there's a chance for an error to occur. This is the driving force behind evolution (along with radiation and other influences). There's really no "middle ground" between synthetic digital and organic digital. Any mixture of the two will simply consist of two separate structures.

Modifié par sth128, 23 avril 2012 - 11:41 .

[DJBare]

lx_theo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...


Of course, there will always be people who hate others for being different like some already do in humanity against aliens, but that will be there in any scenario. This is about as big of a step as one can do.

You just utterly destroyed your entire argument in one sentence.

No, I didn't. But please, go ahead and ignore the rest of the post.

Thanks, it was quite easy to ignore the rest after reading that sentence, if you backpeddle anymore you will end up falling off.

[Aweus]

I am too dumb to understand what OP is trying to say. This is too deep and/or artistic to me. I am however not affraid to admit that. I shall let OP bask in his glory of intelectual superiority but I will also remember that in democracy even a voice of an idiot does matter. A legion of idiots can elect a president. A legion of idiots can convince Bioware to do something about those endings. Carry on.

[lx_theo]

ArchDuck wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...
Because the kid is your only outlet of knowledge. If you don't trust him, its like picking where the coin is under from three differently colored cups. 

If you don't trust him on that, why trust that destroy will even destroy the reapers and not just send the paralyzation stasis the collectors used against every organic in the galaxy?

If you're not going to trust him, you can't pick and choose based on how you want to see the ending. 

Why don't I trust him?

Catalyst: you can destroy all synthetics if you want, even you are part synthetic.

And then my Shepard takes a breath

I have plenty of reason not to trust him.

Yay blue! Part only means parts wil be destroyed. Shepard can easily be severely injured in that scene because of it.

Another reason not to trust him is because you tells you other falsehoods right in his statements. The easiest on to see is the "pinnacle of evolution" BS he spews.

The catalyst logic is wrong. Evolution by definition has no pinnacle.
Also if it did, you could not know what form that would be unless you also knew, with 100% certainty, the exact course of the future.

So, can the reapers/catalyst know the future with 100% certainty?
If the answer is "no" then they have no clue what the pinnacle of evolution is.
If the answer is "yes" then there is nothing to discuss because they can do and know the impossible so reapers win, the end.

Another one is the lie about this solving the problem of organics and synthetics.

To quote myself from earlier in this thread (since I didn't see a response to that post):

ArchDuck wrote...
What is stopping the organic/synthetic hybrids from making more pure synthetics or organics (or both)?

The synthesis ending does not actually stop the reason that the reapers say they are doing this for. After all, pure synthetics and organics can be made in the future and eventually pure organic life will evolve again.


This ending also destroys the current path of evolution across the galaxy, is being based off of a false idea of evolution having a pinnacle and presents forcing it on others with no thought to whether they want to be genetically rewritten as right...

But you can continue being an apologist of the ending if you like, that is your right.

If you enjoy it then please continue to do so, but please stop trying to say that the rest of us need to start enjoying it or stop explaining why we don't enjoy it.

Just reposting this, hoping for a response.

I assume he means the pinnacle of evolution for genetic material. Which in my mind only means that there are two possible forms of life, organic and synthetic, and that this would combine them to emcompass everything, or the pinnacle of what it can do.

The ultimate issue with your second point is that i cannot answer it. While everything is changed, there isn't any indication whether the previous methods of making each will be possible.

[lx_theo]

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...


Of course, there will always be people who hate others for being different like some already do in humanity against aliens, but that will be there in any scenario. This is about as big of a step as one can do.

You just utterly destroyed your entire argument in one sentence.

No, I didn't. But please, go ahead and ignore the rest of the post.

Thanks, it was quite easy to ignore the rest after reading that sentence, if you backpeddle anymore you will end up falling off.

Says the person who says Synthesis is playing God adn it is horrible to do it, but then goes on to play God while commiting Genocide. Lovely.

[KingKhan03]

lx_theo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...


Of course, there will always be people who hate others for being different like some already do in humanity against aliens, but that will be there in any scenario. This is about as big of a step as one can do.

You just utterly destroyed your entire argument in one sentence.

No, I didn't. But please, go ahead and ignore the rest of the post.

Thanks, it was quite easy to ignore the rest after reading that sentence, if you backpeddle anymore you will end up falling off.

Says the person who says Synthesis is playing God adn it is horrible to do it, but then goes on to play God while commiting Genocide. Lovely.

But in the end destoys the reapers which we will ignore completely right?

[ArikadOdakirA]

lx_theo wrote...
I know how DNA works. If you really are suggesting I'm so stupid I don't... Feel free to meet up with me some time and I'll gladly punch your face in.

Synthesis: Serious business.

[lx_theo]

Skirlasvoud wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

anorling wrote...

So what lx_theo is trying to say is forcing synthesis on an entire galaxy is ok because it changes nothing?

No, because it changes one very important thing. It creates empathy.

If organics and synthetics are one in the same (through minor changes), it makes species like the Geth become more like just another species out there in space like the Asari and Turians and such. 

A person will feel much more emphathy and willingness to collaborate when they they don't have that fundamental difference that makes each life worlds more alien than even aliens.

Of course, there will always be people who hate others for being different like some already do in humanity against aliens, but that will be there in any scenario. This is about as big of a step as one can do.

You can't force people to have empathy!

That's liberal fascism.

You end up with this scene from Clockwork Orange:




Only, way more harsh since you're doing it on a galactic scale to EVERYONE. Make peace or I'll rewrite your DNA!

It doesn't force anything outside of the actual synthesis part (which should do little to nothing to people themselves). It creates a similarity that will naturally lead to a much greater emphathy.

Modifié par lx_theo, 23 avril 2012 - 11:45 .

[DJBare]

lx_theo wrote...

Says the person who says Synthesis is playing God adn it is horrible to do it, but then goes on to play God while commiting Genocide. Lovely.

There is a difference between playing god and choosing a difficult path, you took the easy way out.

[RShara]

lx_theo wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

*facepalm*

No, you just are incapable of reading what I've wrote across here.

Oh, I can read.

"You're an idiot. Of course I know how DNA works. I'm not in grade school.

Ever think that a cross would be a combination of DNA and the synthetic method of existence that doesn't require DNA?"

When your assertions that you a. understand DNA and b. have a potential solution to this issue was challenged you retreated and backtracked saying:

"I never claimed to know how Synthesis would work in detail. In fact,
IU have repeated on NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS THAT I HAVE NOT DONE THAT."

Then why claim you understand how DNA works or offer up your own solution? Even the most basic understanding of DNA and or, more importantly, fundamental physics, would show you that Synthesis is not possible under any circumstances. Least of all ones presented to us previously in the course of the Mass Effect IP!

I know how DNA works. If you really are suggesting I'm so stupid I don't... Feel free to meet up with me some time and I'll gladly punch your face in.

DNA is a coding for genetic information. It stores information on genetics, and passes them on to children (life sustaining method). It uses mRNA to bring to ribosomes to construct proteins to build the body out of from amino acids. Robots and AI use codes too. Its a matter of combining the two things. The details of how exactly would be a WIP at best for me, but the important part is the emphasis on that it would effect each species as minimally as possible in their free will adn change in lifestyle.

And maybe you forget, but this is sci-fi. You can't walk 10 feet in ME without coming across omething that isn't actually possible.

Because name caling and threatening physical violence is such great proof of intelligence.

[lx_theo]

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Says the person who says Synthesis is playing God adn it is horrible to do it, but then goes on to play God while commiting Genocide. Lovely.

There is a difference between playing god and choosing a difficult path, you took the easy way out.

No, both are playing God. Playing god is when you choose the fate of the galaxy for them. All the choices do this, whether you want to flail and try to claim your choice isn't or not.

[lx_theo]

RShara wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

*facepalm*

No, you just are incapable of reading what I've wrote across here.

Oh, I can read.

"You're an idiot. Of course I know how DNA works. I'm not in grade school.

Ever think that a cross would be a combination of DNA and the synthetic method of existence that doesn't require DNA?"

When your assertions that you a. understand DNA and b. have a potential solution to this issue was challenged you retreated and backtracked saying:

"I never claimed to know how Synthesis would work in detail. In fact,
IU have repeated on NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS THAT I HAVE NOT DONE THAT."

Then why claim you understand how DNA works or offer up your own solution? Even the most basic understanding of DNA and or, more importantly, fundamental physics, would show you that Synthesis is not possible under any circumstances. Least of all ones presented to us previously in the course of the Mass Effect IP!

I know how DNA works. If you really are suggesting I'm so stupid I don't... Feel free to meet up with me some time and I'll gladly punch your face in.

DNA is a coding for genetic information. It stores information on genetics, and passes them on to children (life sustaining method). It uses mRNA to bring to ribosomes to construct proteins to build the body out of from amino acids. Robots and AI use codes too. Its a matter of combining the two things. The details of how exactly would be a WIP at best for me, but the important part is the emphasis on that it would effect each species as minimally as possible in their free will adn change in lifestyle.

And maybe you forget, but this is sci-fi. You can't walk 10 feet in ME without coming across omething that isn't actually possible.

Because name caling and threatening physical violence is such great proof of intelligence.

Good to know you got past the first paragraph.