449 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobretti ftw]

lx_theo wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

*facepalm*

No, you just are incapable of reading what I've wrote across here.

Oh, I can read.

"You're an idiot. Of course I know how DNA works. I'm not in grade school.

Ever think that a cross would be a combination of DNA and the synthetic method of existence that doesn't require DNA?"

When your assertions that you a. understand DNA and b. have a potential solution to this issue was challenged you retreated and backtracked saying:

"I never claimed to know how Synthesis would work in detail. In fact,
IU have repeated on NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS THAT I HAVE NOT DONE THAT."

Then why claim you understand how DNA works or offer up your own solution? Even the most basic understanding of DNA and or, more importantly, fundamental physics, would show you that Synthesis is not possible under any circumstances. Least of all ones presented to us previously in the course of the Mass Effect IP!

I know how DNA works. If you really are suggesting I'm so stupid I don't... Feel free to meet up with me some time and I'll gladly punch your face in.

DNA is a coding for genetic information. It stores information on genetics, and passes them on to children (life sustaining method). It uses mRNA to bring to ribosomes to construct proteins to build the body out of from amino acids. Robots and AI use codes too. Its a matter of combining the two things. The details of how exactly would be a WIP at best for me, but the important part is the emphasis on that it would effect each species as minimally as possible in their free will adn change in lifestyle.

And maybe you forget, but this is sci-fi. You can't walk 10 feet in ME without coming across omething that isn't actually possible.

My god i cant believe you said such a thing ¬¬
That prooves you dont uderstand it as well is you like to think.
Understand something, the closest thing that a machine would have to a "synthetic method of existence" is a battery.


The DNA sustains the hardware of organiccs, because, as implied in the series WE ARE HARDWARE. THe synthetics are purely software. YOu're ideia dont fit and doesnt make sense.
Not to mention that "method of existence" by itself is a good way to tell that you dont know what u're saying.

Modifié par Cobretti ftw, 24 avril 2012 - 12:02 .

[lx_theo]

Since I've spent way too much time on here, and feel that many of these debates have gone in their expected circle, I'll be on my way. If you have anymore questions, please refer to the last fourteen pages.

Good day all.

[KingKhan03]

lx_theo wrote...

Since I've spent way too much time on here, and feel that many of these debates have gone in their expected circle, I'll be on my way. If you have anymore questions, please refer to the last fourteen pages.

Good day all.

lol

[ElSuperGecko]

I will sum up the reason why I will never choose Synthesis in three very simple, very straightforward sentences.

1: Synthesis is the Catalyst's new "solution".

2: The Catalyst's "original" solution was the Reapers.

3: The only problem that requires a "solution" from the Crucible is the Reapers.

Done.

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 24 avril 2012 - 12:01 .

[Cobretti ftw]

lx_theo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

And maybe you forget, but this is sci-fi. You can't walk 10 feet in ME without coming across omething that isn't actually possible.

Ah, the "It's sci-fi so anything goes" argument as an excuse to ignore a really ridiculous idea.

It is a bit exuberant, yes, but that doesn't make it stupid or anything.

nah it is just ridiculous. When something is PLAUSIBLE enough, you can say that its "exuberant". When it isnt...well.. you know...

[Pockydon]

lx_theo wrote...

Since I've spent way too much time on here, and feel that many of these debates have gone in their expected circle, I'll be on my way. If you have anymore questions, please refer to the last fourteen pages.

Good day all.

I was enjoying that...I got popcorn and everything.

Well, i'm looking forward to the thread in which someone tries to argue that Control was the paragon ending because "it was blue"

Modifié par Pockydon, 24 avril 2012 - 12:03 .

[lx_theo]

Cobretti ftw wrote...


My god i cant believe you said such a thing ¬¬
That prooves you dont uderstand it as well is you like to think.
Understand something, the closest thing that a machine would have to a "synthetic method of existence" is a battery.


The DNA sustains the hardware of organiccs, because, as implayed in the series WE ARE HARDWARE. THe synthetics are purely software. YOu're ideia dont fit and doesnt make sense.
Not to mention that "method of existence" by itself is a good way to tell that you dont know what u're saying.

One last because this guys strikes me as an idiot.

DNA is nothing like a battery. Batteries provide energy for which synthetics to operate. the organic equivalent is food.

The synthetic equivalent of sustaining live is code. All those 0's and 1's.... Its why they can jump around to different platforms. Legion could have still been Legion in a different body. DNA is the code to organic uniqueness. the 0's and 1's of computer code give the uniqueness to AI.

Modifié par lx_theo, 24 avril 2012 - 12:03 .

[Peranor]

lx_theo wrote...

Since I've spent way too much time on here, and feel that many of these debates have gone in their expected circle, I'll be on my way. If you have anymore questions, please refer to the last fourteen pages.

Good day all.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out

[Eterna]

DJBare wrote...

*sighs* The fundamental is that you are playing god by choosing synthesis, it does not matter the outcome, you are choosing the destiny for an "entire" galaxy, humanoids, aliens, plants, you are playing god, So please, stop making the silly threads about the Synthesis option.

I'm pretty sure using a space ship/biotics/medi gel is also playing god. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 24 avril 2012 - 12:05 .

[lx_theo]

KingKhan03 wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Since I've spent way too much time on here, and feel that many of these debates have gone in their expected circle, I'll be on my way. If you have anymore questions, please refer to the last fourteen pages.

Good day all.

lol

I love you too

[Peranor]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

I will sum up the reason why I will never choose Synthesis in three very simple, very straightforward sentences.

1: Synthesis is the Catalyst's new "solution".

2: The Catalyst's "original" solution was the Reapers.

3: The only problem that requires a "solution" from the Crucible is the Reapers.

Done.

I agree

[Sisterofshane]

lx_theo wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

Just reposting this, hoping for a response.

I assume he means the pinnacle of evolution for genetic material. Which in my mind only means that there are two possible forms of life, organic and synthetic, and that this would combine them to emcompass everything, or the pinnacle of what it can do.

The ultimate issue with your second point is that i cannot answer it. While everything is changed, there isn't any indication whether the previous methods of making each will be possible.

There is no pinnacle of evolution for genetic material - as the universe is always changing, so then is the need to adapt to it.  Mordin says so in so many words in response to Avina talking about social class engineering on the citadel in ME2.  He believes in the struggle of "life" to promote growth.  So Synthesis can mean one of two things:

When merged, the ability for all life (this synthetic-organic hybrid) to adapt to it's environment is gone (no more evolution).  This would lead to stagnation and ultimately the demise of all life within the galaxy, as we would be incapable of adapting in any meaningful way to changes within the environment.  Loss of food/power sources through changes in planets would almost certainly spell doom.

Or, perhaps what it does is allow for all life to "evolve" the same way as organics do now.  How exactly does this promote "peace"?  There will still be struggles for resources, different factions interpreting rights of individuals in different ways (and we know how easy it is to war over ideaology).  Old conflicts will still exist, as well as old grudges.  we should know with more certainty than anything else, that human history has shown us that sharing DNA does not necessarily lead to acceptance.

For the Synthesis ending to make any difference at all, what would need to occur would be a complete and total re-writing of the ideas and concepts that every being (synthetic and organic) held before the synthesis occurred.  Basically brainwashing everyone into accepting each other.  It would have to be completely pervasive and continuous in order to maintain any peace by preventing any future conflicts.  Doesn't sound so "idyllic" now, does it?

[DJBare]

Eterna5 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

*sighs* The fundamental is that you are playing god by choosing synthesis, it does not matter the outcome, you are choosing the destiny for an "entire" galaxy, humanoids, aliens, plants, you are playing god, So please, stop making the silly threads about the Synthesis option.

I pretty sure using a space ship/biotics/medi gel is also playing god. 

Well, I might agree with you on the biotics and maybe medigel, but space ship?, Buzz Aldrin is God?

[KingKhan03]

lx_theo wrote...

KingKhan03 wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Since I've spent way too much time on here, and feel that many of these debates have gone in their expected circle, I'll be on my way. If you have anymore questions, please refer to the last fourteen pages.

Good day all.

lol

I love you too

Haha this thread has been interesting.

[RShara]

Yep, it's either useless or amoral. Take your pick

[Eterna]

DJBare wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

*sighs* The fundamental is that you are playing god by choosing synthesis, it does not matter the outcome, you are choosing the destiny for an "entire" galaxy, humanoids, aliens, plants, you are playing god, So please, stop making the silly threads about the Synthesis option.

I pretty sure using a space ship/biotics/medi gel is also playing god. 

Well, I might agree with you on the biotics and maybe medigel, but space ship?, Buzz Aldrin is God?

If humans were intended to fly we'd have wings. 

[TreguardD]

lx_theo wrote...

 Why do people think that Synthesis would make organics cyborgs or something along those lines? It makes no sense that people would be forced into a cyborg form. In fact, it makes so little sense that it also doesn't make sense that anyone would think that's what it meant. A bit... perplexing, I must say.

The Catalyst told of how synthesis would create a new DNA. He said nothing about how it would alter the physical forms of anyone. [What does make sense is that if Synthesis only effects DNA and Sythetic's equivalent.

Dude. STOP there. Synthetics do not have DNA, nor anything like it. They are artificial. They have software.

They would be merged to create one fundamental building block of life rather than the two distinctly different ones that were there before. A Geth would simply be another species, like a Human is to a Turian. This is actually the only way it can make sense.

Or it can look like the Borg, with the inviduality upgraded out of them. See also Dr. Who's Cybermen.

If people were transformed into synthetics or cyborgs or something along those lines, it destroys the ability to write a future story coming after because of the huge variation it would force.

Dude. That's the POINT.

People still have their free will. They still have their individuality. They are still who they are. The only logical interpretations of synthesis would be ones that change species at such a fundamental level that it can put them on the same playing field without changing the uniqueness of each species and individual.

You saying this doesn't make it true. Personally, I find the only logical mixture of the two to be very Borg like.

Any interpretation that does not take this in account will not make sense. I don't really understand why anyone would think those to be true. Maybe they are so bitter at the ending they choose to look for the interpretation they can hate on the most?

No. We're looking at the one that is easiest to explain from a mostly hard Science Fiction viewpoint.

So please, stop making the silly threads attacking the Synthesis option.

We are the Borg. You will assimilate with us.

Modifié par TreguardD, 24 avril 2012 - 12:09 .

[Iakus]

Eterna5 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

*sighs* The fundamental is that you are playing god by choosing synthesis, it does not matter the outcome, you are choosing the destiny for an "entire" galaxy, humanoids, aliens, plants, you are playing god, So please, stop making the silly threads about the Synthesis option.

I'm pretty sure using a space ship/biotics/medi gel is also playing god. 

If you are kidnapping people and  forcing them to settle on  another world, you're playing god with a spaceship
If you are exploding drive cores of unsuspecting settled areas, you're playing god with biotics
If you are using medigel on people against their express wishes, you're playing god with medigel

If you're forcing Synthesis on people without their knowledge or consent, you're just plain playing god

Modifié par iakus, 24 avril 2012 - 12:11 .

[Sisterofshane]

Eterna5 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

*sighs* The fundamental is that you are playing god by choosing synthesis, it does not matter the outcome, you are choosing the destiny for an "entire" galaxy, humanoids, aliens, plants, you are playing god, So please, stop making the silly threads about the Synthesis option.

I pretty sure using a space ship/biotics/medi gel is also playing god. 

Well, I might agree with you on the biotics and maybe medigel, but space ship?, Buzz Aldrin is God?

If humans were intended to fly we'd have wings. 

Ok, wait, so using biotics and medigel and flying around in my space ship allows me to supercede the free will of other beings in the universe?

[Nobrandminda]

lx_theo wrote...

anorling wrote...

So what lx_theo is trying to say is forcing synthesis on an entire galaxy is ok because it changes nothing?

No, because it changes one very important thing. It creates empathy.

Physical differences are completely irrelivent, so even if the lack of "empathy" was the problem, and it's not, then synthesis does nothing to help.  The problem is the unavoidable hierarchy between the created and the creator.  It doesn't matter whether the created is made from flesh or steel, or whether it is the product of DNA or software.

Javik actually does a really nice job of explaining it:

"They are more alien than you and I are to eachother... Organics do not know how we were created.  Some say by chance.  Some say by miracle.  It is a mystery.  But synthetics... know we created them, and they know we are flawed... Above all, machines know the reason they were created.  They serve a purpose, while we seach aimlessly for ours.  In their eyes, organics have no reason to exist."

That divide still exists in the Synthesis ending, and it will continue to exist when the new synthesized life forms start creating synthetic life.  Maybe the blueprint for that synthetic life will be on the "Synthetic/DNA hybrid" instead of traditional software, but it doesn't matter.  The creator/created relationship will still exist.  No amount of empathy is going to change that fact.  

It's unclear whether offspring are "born" or "manufactured" in the Synthesis ending.  The idea that all newborns are made is unsettling enough.  Even in the real world, we're starting to develop the technology that lets parents choose traits for their children, and the morality of that is all kinds of gray.  If they are "made" I'd predict that there would immediately be a war between the old life forms, and the first generation born after Synthesis, just like what happened with Miranda and her father in that subplot.

Modifié par Nobrandminda, 24 avril 2012 - 12:14 .

[DJBare]

Eterna5 wrote...

If humans were intended to fly we'd have wings. 

But we do not, so evolution gave us the ability to build wings, we don't have wheels either, so we should not be able to drive.

[Zuka999]

lx_theo wrote...

Since I've spent way too much time on here, and feel that many of these debates have gone in their expected circle, I'll be on my way. If you have anymore questions, please refer to the last fourteen pages.

Good day all.

Trolled softly.

[Eterna]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

*sighs* The fundamental is that you are playing god by choosing synthesis, it does not matter the outcome, you are choosing the destiny for an "entire" galaxy, humanoids, aliens, plants, you are playing god, So please, stop making the silly threads about the Synthesis option.

I pretty sure using a space ship/biotics/medi gel is also playing god. 

Well, I might agree with you on the biotics and maybe medigel, but space ship?, Buzz Aldrin is God?

If humans were intended to fly we'd have wings. 

Ok, wait, so using biotics and medigel and flying around in my space ship allows me to supercede the free will of other beings in the universe?

I never said that. I just meant that saying Synthesis isn't a viable ending because it plays god is rather silly considering the universe it takes place in. 

[Peranor]

DJBare wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

*sighs* The fundamental is that you are playing god by choosing synthesis, it does not matter the outcome, you are choosing the destiny for an "entire" galaxy, humanoids, aliens, plants, you are playing god, So please, stop making the silly threads about the Synthesis option.

I pretty sure using a space ship/biotics/medi gel is also playing god. 

Well, I might agree with you on the biotics and maybe medigel, but space ship?, Buzz Aldrin is God?

Don't feed the troll. He is only trying to add fuel to the flames. 
I remember that obnoxious salarian from another thread.