449 réponses à ce sujet

[Eyeshield21]

Katherine wrote...

"No glands, replaced by tech. No digestive system, replaced by tech. No soul, replaced by tech."

— Dr. Mordin Solus

This^ Infinitely this. 

[Cobra's_back]

DJBare wrote...

*sighs* The fundamental is that you are playing god by choosing synthesis, it does not matter the outcome, you are choosing the destiny for an "entire" galaxy, humanoids, aliens, plants, you are playing god, So please, stop making the silly threads about the Synthesis option.

This well said

[Tim_H]

soulprovider wrote...

basically Synthesis is suggesting that everyone becomes like the geth and reapers and all of the sudden has a new synthetic frame work that goes completely against the laws of evolution. And Peace is not an option.

QFT.....

Basically, ME3's ending is preaching a mystic philosophy to us.

If you don't buy the philosophy, then it's like sitting through somebody else's church service....

That's why a nice ending with the reaper's in full retreat and Shephard and Liara buying a villa in Spain would have left us "Synthesis Atheists" in such a better mood....

That's why my Shepherd chose to blow the Reapers up... he didn't buy any of that nutty religious stuff the catalyst tried to sell...

[webhead921]

DJBare wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

*sighs* The fundamental is that you are playing god by choosing synthesis, it does not matter the outcome, you are choosing the destiny for an "entire" galaxy, humanoids, aliens, plants, you are playing god, So please, stop making the silly threads about the Synthesis option.

Pretty much ^this^

I have no problem if he wants to play his Shepard as a god, that's role play, but anyone supporting synthesis should at least admit to this.

This is true.  Synthesis is a valid option, but you have to admit that in this situation Shepard is walking along dangerous territory by "playing god."  One of my pure paragon shepards does have a huge ego bit of a god-complex sometimes.  She rewrote the geth, something that I personally would not do, but it fit with her character.  She would be willing to change the galaxy on such a huge level if she thought it meant peace.  In her mind, it's the "greater good."   Still, synthesis does not work for a lot of Shepards.  My main femshep and my main dudeshep shot the pipe, and blew the reapers and catalyst to kingdom come.

[humes spork]

Sisterofshane wrote...

I've had enough life experience to humbly understand that ideaology can be just as deadly as any weapon.  It's also something that isn't just "waved" away.

And, another point on the Geth, while many chose to continue to serve the Quarians (which I believe that many here could equate to general good will, or rather choosing to be involved in a positive way), there were many who chose to side with destruction (the Reapers), and chose to believe themselves to be superior to organics.  So while it is highly possible that some Reapers may choose to work towards  bettering the galaxy and themselves. it is just as likely that others will choose to go down a darker path.

Yay free will.

Indeed. The question with synthesis is whether the potential bad outweighs the potential good. Personally, I believe the potential good outweighs the bad, but I fully recognize that to be subjective and as a result can't speak for anyone's opinion on the matter but my own.

Though, I would attribute the geths' desire to continue to serve the quarians during their exile as more self-serviing than appears at face value. So long as the geth could rationalize their existence as one of continued service despite being independent, they needn't confront the question of purpose until having the processing power to answer it for themselves. I believe (the majority of) the geth "turning out right" was serendipity rather than good will. Really, I would be inclined to say the same, given the codex's commentary on AI and how blue boxes and their particular subatomic arrangement colludes with the AI's coding to produce its unique personality and outlook, about EDI as well.

Either way, as an aside I think the initial events leading up to the Reapers and the cycle itself was actually mediated upon that very need for purpose you discuss. The Catalyst was involved in a conflict with its creators, won, and faced with the prospect of confronting the possibility it may exist without ultimate purpose invented the cycle to justify its existence. That's just my take on it, and off-topic anyhow.

[Jedifan421]

lx_theo wrote...

 Why do people think that Synthesis would make organics cyborgs or something along those lines? It makes no sense that people would be forced into a cyborg form. In fact, it makes so little sense that it also doesn't make sense that anyone would think that's what it meant. A bit... perplexing, I must say.

The Catalyst told of how synthesis would create a new DNA. He said nothing about how it would alter the physical forms of anyone. What does make sense is that if Synthesis only effects DNA and Sythetic's equivalent. They would be merged to create one fundamental building block of life rather than the two distinctly different ones that were there before. A Geth would simply be another species, like a Human is to a Turian.
This is actually the only way it can make sense

.

First of all, Pure Synthethics like Geth have NO DNA EQUIVALENT. Because they are SYNTHETICALLY MADE ENTIRELY OUT OF MACHINE PARTS THAT HAVE NO AMINO-ACID BASES IN THEM. Second of all, imagine evey species in the galaxy that has DNA, all the way down to the most basic of bacteria and anaerobes, being rewritten in a matter of seconds by space magic . How does this rewritten DNA not totally mess with every function of every organic process. Every living cell has DNA but if their DNA now included a random programming equivalent from synthetics, all synthetics which includes everything that is synthetically made like cyborgs such as Shepard or Garrus, because the Starchild never says just the Geth or just the Reapers or just A.I. and V.I. or whatever. How could this forced genetic engineering not screw up everything that has DNA permanently? If DNA is altered so drastically in such short time, it could maybe cause a mass genocide or severe problems in terms of reproducing, motor functions, just basic cellular activity really.

If people were transformed into synthetics or cyborgs or something along those lines, it destroys the ability to write a future story coming after because of the huge variation it would force. People still have their free will. They still have their individuality. They are still who they are.

No, not if their DNA, the fundamental building blocks of what makes them who they are, is changed in such a drastic manner. Not to mention a lot of organics like Javik and the Rachni would be pissed they have parts of Synthetics as their DNA.

The only logical interpretations of synthesis would be ones that change species at such a fundamental level that it can put them on the same playing field without changing the uniqueness of each species and individual. Any interpretation that does not take this in account will not make sense. I don't really understand why anyone would think those to be true. Maybe they are so bitter at the ending they choose to look for the interpretation they can hate on the most?

The only logical (or in reality, illogical) interpretation of synthesis is exactly the one they give us. Every species in the galaxy has one type of DNA now through space magic:wizard:. Every organic has parts of synthetic programming in them and every Synthethic some how has organic DNA in them. So, with organic DNA running through them now with no explanation as to how or what processes would be affected, wouldn't they be prone to the same tendencies of organics now? Like, all those really bad ones too like the ability to commit murder and genocide? Or is it conveinently only the good ones? Once again, the only logical interpretation is the one they gave us and the one they gave, until they maybe "clarify" it in the summer is nonsensical at best, world-breaking at worst. And people think it's the best ending. What a riot.

[webhead921]

Also, it's important to note that when you choose control or destroy, the soldiers cheer when the reapers die/leave. With synthesis, they just stand there.

[Cobra's_back]

Eterna5 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

*sighs* The fundamental is that you are playing god by choosing synthesis, it does not matter the outcome, you are choosing the destiny for an "entire" galaxy, humanoids, aliens, plants, you are playing god, So please, stop making the silly threads about the Synthesis option.

I'm pretty sure using a space ship/biotics/medi gel is also playing god. 

No. A doctor takes care of a patient. The patient gave him the right to do it. This is not the same. Your doctor will not perform surgery unless it is needed and he has your consent. This was not a life and death situation. I really don’t see the need for the green option. Check out an example that fits.


1942
In Skinner v. Oklahoma, the U.S. Supreme Court rules unanimously against an Oklahoma law targeting some felons for sterilization (the plaintiff, Jack Skinner, was a chicken thief) while excluding white-collar criminals. The majority opinion, written by Justice William O. Douglas, rejects the broad eugenic mandate previously outlined in Buck v. Bell (1927). If you are interested check the link: http://en.wikipedia....ner_v._Oklahoma
 
States have tried to cross the line and the Supreme Court had squashed it. Remember everyone that played the game has a prior background. Some players don’t care some do. If you want to pick green pick it. I perfectly understand where DJBare is coming from. This green option is not a medical emergency. If you feel it is please take it.

[humes spork]

webhead921 wrote...

Also, it's important to note that when you choose control or destroy, the soldiers cheer when the reapers die/leave. With synthesis, they just stand there.

Well I can only speak for myself, but if I were there holding the line in the last stand against the omnicidal menace, then green, and my weiner suddenly had a BIOS my response sure as **** wouldn't be "YAAAAAAY!".

Let's start with "dafuq?" and go from there.

Modifié par humes spork, 24 avril 2012 - 02:20 .

[webhead921]

humes spork wrote...

webhead921 wrote...

Also, it's important to note that when you choose control or destroy, the soldiers cheer when the reapers die/leave. With synthesis, they just stand there.

Well I can only speak for myself, but if I were there holding the line in the last stand against the omnicidal menace, then green, and my weiner suddenly had a master boot record my response would sure as **** be "dafuq?".

Same here.  I would drop a synthetic deuce in my undies made out of synthetic cotton.

[Balek-Vriege]

DJBare wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

*sighs* The fundamental is that you are playing god by choosing synthesis, it does not matter the outcome, you are choosing the destiny for an "entire" galaxy, humanoids, aliens, plants, you are playing god, So please, stop making the silly threads about the Synthesis option.

Pretty much ^this^

I have no problem if he wants to play his Shepard as a god, that's role play, but anyone supporting synthesis should at least admit to this.

I will.  The great thing to me about the Synthesis ending is that it's an opportunity to change the galaxy, most likely for the better, forever.  You give organics the intellect and processing power of AI/synthetics so they no longer build them.  You most likely give Synthetics a true sense of identity and organic empathy.  Unfortunately the sacrifice is rewiting the fates and the very makeup of every single lifeform in the galaxy without their consent (save for post synthesis primordial goo).  Although the term is a bit harsh (actually not really), it is "genetic" rape on a galactic scale.  Actually it's destiny rape as well.  Shepard chooses to "patch" all organic and synthetic life so they not only get along and survive, but thrive next to one another.  A Synthesis galaxy is probably going to be much more successful and a better place to live than Control/Destroy.

Even with the ethical questions, if I was in Shepard's position and the Catalyst made the same case, I would most likely pick synthesis.  I don't think I pick destroy (even though I did ingame once) because I believe in AI technological singularities and rebellions occuring.  It's basically proven in the ME universe.  Would it be morally/ethically wrong?  More or less yes to the umpth degree.  Would it be for the greater good long term over hundreds of thousands of years?  Better chance than leaving it up to evolution and the current problems of civilization/progress.  Does the ethical questions make the "solution" any less valid?  No.  Ends definitely justify the means in this case.

If you can get over playing messiah, lifegiver and god by makling a decision that will change everything, then Synthesis is a great ending.  If you believe Synthesis is morally wrong and the races of the galaxy should choose their own destiny, for better or worse, then Destroy is your ending (even though you purge the Galaxy of all AI/Synthestics).  If you think Synthesis is morally wrong but Destroy leaves too much to chance, then Control is your ending.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 24 avril 2012 - 02:41 .

[Cobra's_back]

Tim_H wrote...

soulprovider wrote...

basically Synthesis is suggesting that everyone becomes like the geth and reapers and all of the sudden has a new synthetic frame work that goes completely against the laws of evolution. And Peace is not an option.

QFT.....

Basically, ME3's ending is preaching a mystic philosophy to us.

If you don't buy the philosophy, then it's like sitting through somebody else's church service....

That's why a nice ending with the reaper's in full retreat and Shephard and Liara buying a villa in Spain would have left us "Synthesis Atheists" in such a better mood....

That's why my Shepherd chose to blow the Reapers up... he didn't buy any of that nutty religious stuff the catalyst tried to sell...

+1

[RShara]

Okay I just have to point out
If you want to see how to do Synthesis, and how to evolve Empathy correctly, please read a series called Hyperion by Dan Simmons. In particular, the last book, The Rise of Endymion, really goes into co-evolution, Technological Singularity, and human choice.

[MrFob]

Besides everything that has already be discussed,I just want to point out that synthesis (just like the other options) is not really a new solution to the catalyst's "problem".
The fundamental problem he postulates is that "the created will always rebel against their creators". He illustrates that on the case of organics and synthetics. Shepard can even prove to him that this is not an issue at the moment because the quarians and the geth actually just made peace. This leaves us with the paradigm that this rebellion will happen with some other creation sometimes in the future. Fair enough, in an infinite time frame everything that can happen will happen eventually right?
So the synthesis solution is that organics and synthetics are mingled together so that they are one and that there is no rebellion.
BUT, if what the OP says is true and those new beings are not changed in their free will and overall nature, they will still have the desire to improve their situation, to make life easier for them. In the end, they may just create another form of labor force - synthetic or something else - and the initial problem will just be repeated.
Sine the underlying problem goes beyond the distinction between organics and synthetics as such, synthesis is not a solution at all. (Neither are Destruction or Control but let's not go into that right now.)

[Balek-Vriege]

MrFob wrote...

Besides everything that has already be discussed,I just want to point out that synthesis (just like the other options) is not really a new solution to the catalyst's "problem".
The fundamental problem he postulates is that "the created will always rebel against their creators". He illustrates that on the case of organics and synthetics. Shepard can even prove to him that this is not an issue at the moment because the quarians and the geth actually just made peace. This leaves us with the paradigm that this rebellion will happen with some other creation sometimes in the future. Fair enough, in an infinite time frame everything that can happen will happen eventually right?
So the synthesis solution is that organics and synthetics are mingled together so that they are one and that there is no rebellion.
BUT, if what the OP says is true and those new beings are not changed in their free will and overall nature, they will still have the desire to improve their situation, to make life easier for them. In the end, they may just create another form of labor force - synthetic or something else - and the initial problem will just be repeated.
Sine the underlying problem goes beyond the distinction between organics and synthetics as such, synthesis is not a solution at all. (Neither are Destruction or Control but let's not go into that right now.)

Remember the Quarians and Geth make peace days/weeks before the ending.  So it remains to be seen how long that actually lasts (remember, it's the Quarians that cause the conflict in most cases, not the Geth).  But like you say given time anything is possible.  AIs and Organics could live in peace for thousands of years.  However...

All it takes is one AI technological singularity, which decides all organic life is a threat, to happen once.  At that point the likelyhood of there ever being intelligent organic life left to evolve ceases in this Galaxy.

The free will thing is more or less confirmed by Joker and EDI acting exactly the same as they do in Control.  They're still "in love" and show feelings/emotion about their new surroundings and towards eachother.  That hints they're still the same individually, but different physically (and most likely mentally as well).

Synthesis is a solution if it does the following:

If Synthesis gives organics the "perfect" AI-like abilities/processing, what's the point of bettering yourself by making lesser, synthetic AIs?  What Synthesis does is take away the neccessity of needing AI to progress past a certain technological point.  If Organics can do this on their own and interface themselves with technology like Synthetics, AI/VI creation becomes mute.  The problem is different for Synthetics.  They lack self identity, empathy (usually) and have a clear sense of purpose or function.  Making them more like organics would make them act more like EDI/Post-Legion Geth than Skynet from Terminator.

So in a way it does solve the overarching problem the Catalyst is trying to solve.  Does it solve everything?  Most like not.

At the end i'm pretty sure when Shepard asks "And there will be peace?," the Catalyst actually avoids answering the question directly and says "The Cycles will end..."

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 24 avril 2012 - 03:29 .

[palician]

lx_theo wrote...

 Why do people think that Synthesis would make organics cyborgs or something along those lines? It makes no sense that people would be forced into a cyborg form. In fact, it makes so little sense that it also doesn't make sense that anyone would think that's what it meant. A bit... perplexing, I must say.

The Catalyst told of how synthesis would create a new DNA. He said nothing about how it would alter the physical forms of anyone. What does make sense is that if Synthesis only effects DNA and Sythetic's equivalent. They would be merged to create one fundamental building block of life rather than the two distinctly different ones that were there before. A Geth would simply be another species, like a Human is to a Turian. This is actually the only way it can make sense. If people were transformed into synthetics or cyborgs or something along those lines, it destroys the ability to write a future story coming after because of the huge variation it would force. People still have their free will. They still have their individuality. They are still who they are. The only logical interpretations of synthesis would be ones that change species at such a fundamental level that it can put them on the same playing field without changing the uniqueness of each species and individual. Any interpretation that does not take this in account will not make sense. I don't really understand why anyone would think those to be true. Maybe they are so bitter at the ending they choose to look for the interpretation they can hate on the most?

So please, stop making the silly threads attacking the Synthesis option.

The problem for me is that there is no synthetic equivalent of d.n.a.
So the only way they could force this into the game is with MAGIC.(Talk about a square peg in a round hole).
And when people say that its beyond our comprehension,that does not meen that its possible.
Why not have a white button that turns the entire fabric of space into milk.(& then we can have milk effect).Or introduce an unrealistic form of time travel in the last ten minutes of the story to destroy the reapers before they can start the cycle.Not that any of these would be any worse than the ending that we currently have.
Leonardo da vinci had a concept along similar lines to a helicopter.How it would function was beyond his conprehension but he knew that it was a plausible theory.Merging organics & synthetics is pure fantasy & nothing more.Stuff like biotics is extremely unlikely,but seeing as dark energy is a form of energy its not entirely impossible that something along similar lines to biotics could be discovered.But hybridizing all organics & synthetics,or controling machines after your dead for that matter is pure fantasy.

[MrFob]

@Balek:
You are only thinking in the way that AIs are created at the moment as in organics create synthetics. Think bout WHY they do it. They do it to overcome difficulties. Like Mordin says in ME2 "can't carry load, build wheel; can't hunt prey, build spear"
Under synthesis condition this will continue, just the problems will shift and so will the inventions. I have no doubt, the new synthetic races will still use and create tools to perform tasks. It's only a matter of time until these creation again reach a level of complexity that will pose a threat.
I guess my point is that if you need to stretch out the time-line for the problem to occur ti infinity (which is what the catalyst has to do because the problem clearly does not occur at the moment), then there can't be a definite solution (ironically besides the one the reapers represented which is to keep things as static as possible).
At that point the synthesis solution becomes even more absurd as you are forcing a change on everyone without a defined purpose of why you are actually doing it. It's really kind of an arbitrary decision and you might as well leave everybody alone and see ho things play out.

Modifié par MrFob, 24 avril 2012 - 03:41 .

[Balek-Vriege]

MrFob wrote...

@Balek:
You are only thinking in the way that AIs are created at the moment as in organics create synthetics. Think bout WHY they do it. They do it to overcome difficulties. Like Mordin says in ME2 "can't carry load, build wheel; can't hunt prey, build spear"
Under synthesis condition this will continue, just the problems will shift and so will the inventions. I have no doubt, the new synthetic races will still use and create tools to perform tasks. It's only a matter of time until these creation again reach a level of complexity that will pose a threat.
I guess my point is that if you need to stretch out the time-line for the problem to occur ti infinity (which is what the catalyst has to do because the problem clearly does not occur at the moment), then there can't be a definite solution (ironically besides the one the reapers represented which is to keep things as static as possible).
At that point the synthesis solution becomes even more absurd as you are forcing a change on everyone without a defined purpose of why you are actually doing it. It's really kind of an arbitrary decision and you might as well leave everybody alone and see ho things play out.

I thought I was pretty clear in my last post that Organics create AIs to overcome difficulty.  Technology in of itself isn't the problem.  Progress and it's ultimate end is.  That end is AI.  Why do organics create AI?  Because like you say, it overcomes difficulty and performs task we can't do on our own.

Now Synthesis occurs the way I stated.  We still need the wheel, we still need the spear.  However, we no longer need AI/VIs.  Why?  Because the problems in which AI/VIs correct (processing of data at quick speeds, accuracy, dealing with complicated tasks) can now be done by each individual.  You won't need a ship computer to compute things.  A Synthesis Organic could do all of that.  Lesser computing technologies will not make things easier.  Instead they would most likely make things more inefficient by adding a middle man of sorts.  No one picks up a calculator to compute 1+1=2.

Using the spear as an example.  Would we ever build a spear again if we could magically summon a spear into our hands.  Not just any spear, but the sharpest and most balanced spear one could imagine?  Most likely not.

Although this isn't implied at all by the endings, imagine the abilities of Protheans/Javik, but able to commune with technology etc. and were super intelligent.  Would you really need a computer to do anything for you?  Probably not.

Even if AIs/VIs were created, would they be able to compete with Synthesis lifeforms?  If technological singularity occured in a Synthesis universe, it would most likely be Sythesis lifeforms achieving it, rather than Synthetics in which there wouldn't be a real problem with said ascendance.

Like I said before it most likely ends the cycles and the fateful problem of Synthetics eliminating all Organic life.  What the Catalyst doesn't know is what such a transorganic/transynthetic Galaxy would look/act like.  For all it knows bigger problems could arise.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 24 avril 2012 - 04:04 .

[MrFob]

Ok, apparently I wasn't clear enough here, sorry.
What I mean is that synthetic AIs are not necessarily the force of destruction. It might be something else which the new race that exists after the synthesis ending will build eventually.

In fact, contrary to what you say, it could even still be the traditional AIs. Remember the AI on the citadel in ME1? When you ask about it's creator, it states that it was created by another AI. The geth also still use and develop new non-sapient tech and who knows how that might evolve.

That was not even my point however, my point is that the catalyst wants to preserve organic life. With the reapers he does so by preventing progress which as you say is the fundamental problem

Technology in of itself isn't the problem. Progress and it's ultimate end is.

Now, you say that this end is AIs. I say that is not necessarily the case and thus, the synthesis ending is not a solution.

[Deepo78]

 
Other than no analogue for synthetic DNA being presented in the geth or EDI it's also silly because it makes the bizarre assumption that everyone has to be the same to get along and that we can never rise above of our differences.

So instead of being the most altruistic choice, Synthesis it's actually the most limited and defeatist of the multi-colored bummer choices. 

[Balek-Vriege]

MrFob wrote...

Ok, apparently I wasn't clear enough here, sorry.
What I mean is that synthetic AIs are not necessarily the force of destruction. It might be something else which the new race that exists after the synthesis ending will build eventually.

In fact, contrary to what you say, it could even still be the traditional AIs. Remember the AI on the citadel in ME1? When you ask about it's creator, it states that it was created by another AI. The geth also still use and develop new non-sapient tech and who knows how that might evolve.

That was not even my point however, my point is that the catalyst wants to preserve organic life. With the reapers he does so by preventing progress which as you say is the fundamental problem

Technology in of itself isn't the problem. Progress and it's ultimate end is.

Now, you say that this end is AIs. I say that is not necessarily the case and thus, the synthesis ending is not a solution.

No problem the fault may lie with me since i'm getting a bit tired and doing some modding atm which isn't going so well.


To keep this short I will agree Synthesis goes against the Catalyst's, or more specifically the creators of the Catalyst's, vision of preserving organic life.  That's probably why such an option wasn't executed in the first place (or the Catalyst/it's creators just didn't have the technology/means to do so).  The Catalyst only presents the ways forward to Shepard (opened up by the Crucible), since its own plan is proven to fail and it can't make a decision by itself.  In a way that's a whole different issue of what exactly "is" the Catalyst.

Most technology doesn't evolve, only that which is written to make itself better.  A toaster will not become to super AI.  A VI that accidently was coded with "improve self" programming could become an AI.  What i'm saying is that the likelyhood of Organics/Synthetics post Synthesis creating an AI, much less a VI, is much, much lower than before if not gone completely (if the Crucible did its job right in creating perfect hybrids).  Even if Synthesis races do create rebel Synthetics , they're much less of a threat to the super beings that populate the universe since Synthesis lifeforms have all the AI advantages and more.

Also Geth technology isn't a good example but I understand your point.  Geth tech will never rebel because it's actually Geth.  They don't use independent computers.  They pretty much pilot all their technology with Geth programs (themselves).

Your last point is a matter of opinion.  If you believe the Catalyst's concerns are true, significant or think they can be solved, Synthesis is a solution for that Shepard.  If you don't believe in the Catalyst philosophy, logic or believe its futile, than Destroy is the obvious choice.  No one is forcing Synthesis on you, not even the Catalyst.

Edit:

Deepo78 wrote...


Other than no analogue for synthetic DNA being presented in the geth or EDI it's also silly because it makes the bizarre assumption that everyone has to be the same to get along and that we can never rise above of our differences.

So instead of being the most altruistic choice, Synthesis it's actually the most limited and defeatist of the multi-colored bummer choices.

How well has overcoming our differences gone in Human history or the ME universe so far?  How will we ever overcome our differences with finite resources and the same thought processes which make us human today?  The fact is based off most evidence is that were doomed to failure at some point because of the demands of progress/civilization.  You can't rise above human nature, without somehow changing human nature or making resources infinite thereby eliminating the need for conflict.

It's not so much that everyone has to be the same on an individual by individual basis, but more about Synthetics and Organics being on the same page so they don't try to wipe eachother out.  I keep coming back to the last lines dealing with Synthesis:


Shepard: "...And there will be peace?"

Catalyst: "...The cycle will end. Synthesis is the final evolution of life, but we need eachother to make it happen."

Notice the Catalyst doesn't say everyone will get along and live happily ever after.  Only that the cycles will end.  Again other problems could arise or the same old stuff, different actors.  But the cycles, dealing with AI rebellion will likely no longer be an issue.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 24 avril 2012 - 05:08 .

[MrFob]

I agree with Balek, this whole debate becomes very philosophical but then, it is supposed to cover very long periods of time, I don't see a way around it.
As you say, most technology doesn't evolve but all the catalyst's arguments are based upon is the one instance when it does.
I also agree that geth tech is not a good example as far as hardware is concerned but what about software? What if the geth one day contemplate the issue of subjective reality and design an independent AI in order to get input from a different perspective? What if they don't even realize what they are building until it is too late (like the quarians with the geth themselves, they were never meant to be AIs, too)
What if the synthesis people create new molecular tools to maintain themselves that are supposed to replicate into tissue forms and at some point they start to evolve on their own? (sorry for the total rip off of the stargate replicants here)
Of couse, I am just making up wild stuff here but you know how things can go. Also, these examples are probably not perfect and full of holes because I just came up with them as I took these 3 minutes to write them down.
The point however is, that the system, the catalyst tries to control is too complex to predict (the catalyst even admits that).
The catalyst might prolong the time, reduce the chances of a culminating crash but he will never solve his "problem" and therefore, the reapers as well as all three endings are a joke.



Oh, another (but related) topic, if the synthesis option comes true and those guys live happily ever after, what about all the new organic life that will develop eventually? What if in some primordial muck, amino acids come together and form new organic DNA that is not altered? I am talking about planets that might not even exist yet by the time the crucible goes off and changes all the existing DNA. Will that be "synthesized" by the more advanced races? Will it be allowed to evolve on it's own? You know because in that case you have the same problem as before.
Just a funny little nitpick there.

[Peranor]

Even if you disregard the moral aspect of the synthesis choice. The whole thing is just ridiculous.
Sending out a green beam that rewrites the DNA on every orcanic being, including the plants in the whole galaxy in the matter of seconds and turning them in to cyborgs?

It is just unrealistic!

And yes, I know that Mass Effect is sci-fi.
But even In science fiction there is set laws that dictate what's possible in that universe.
And the story in that universe then has to follow those laws, otherwise the story gets unrealistic in a different, bad-writing kind of way.
And synthesis most definitely do not follow those rules. It's so far out there it's not even funny. And that is why people call it "space magic".

[III_wAR]

Synthesis....

[ArchDuck]

Eyeshield21 wrote...

Katherine wrote...

"No glands, replaced by tech. No digestive system, replaced by tech. No soul, replaced by tech."

— Dr. Mordin Solus

This^ Infinitely this. 

Though I like the quote I can't really agree with it. I don't believe in souls (no evidence) so a hybrid or synthetic isn't automatically less than an organic as long as it has intelligence and free will.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 24 avril 2012 - 07:16 .