449 réponses à ce sujet

[ronnok]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

inb4 speculations

Wrong, there were speculations in the OP's origional post

[Madecologist]

DJBare wrote...

*sighs* The fundamental is that you are playing god by choosing synthesis, it does not matter the outcome, you are choosing the destiny for an "entire" galaxy, humanoids, aliens, plants, you are playing god, So please, stop making the silly threads about the Synthesis option.

Indeed, I agree. A lot of people don't like the Synthesis option not because of the reasons behind what it does and how it is possible (which is its own can of worms), Many object to it on a rudementary ethical level.

Shepard single handedly without consent of anyone decides to rewrite all life in the galaxy. Even if it is just at the DNA level. This is a direct violation of a person's individuality.

One arguement I heard someone toss out was, "the galaxy appointed Shepard as their champion." Two errors, 1) they didn't, he broked peace to unite several oppossing faction into a huge armanda and carried the hopes of many for being such a natural leader. People follow Shepard. This is very different than saying "change our DNA as you see fit."

2) I am pretty sure no one assumed Shepard would have that power, it is not like something they can even fathom at the time. So when Shepard does get the power to do so, he was never appointed that right by anyone. He is acting on his or her own, and his or her decision will effect everyone. Even those that never met Shepard. Heck they expect him to stop or destroy the Reapers. Not rewrite their very DNA.

Only one being gives you the option to choose and that is the Catalyst, and he too is not representative of the Galaxy's will. Synthesis is pretty much the Catalyst's new ultimate goal now that it is merged with the Crucible, the new solution, it just needs Shepard's final consent to enact it. Since Shepard does choose, the moral choice is yours. This is a moral choice I will not take.

Modifié par Madecologist, 23 avril 2012 - 10:19 .

[crimzontearz]

lx_theo wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...lx_theo wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...lx_theo wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...you.....you do realize HOW DNA works right?Yes. Don't patronise me. This is under the assumption that synthesis works and does actually do as the starchild says... Make a single type of genetic coding that works for both syntheitics and organics.Synthetics have no DNA because their bodies have no need to store a case to tell their cells how to build proteins or how to regulate double negative feedbacks or to pass on their traits to future generations...so NO you do NOT know how DNA works or you would know a synthetic has no use for it

You're an idiot. Of course I know how DNA works. I'm not in grade school.Ever think that a cross would be a combination of DNA and the synthetic method of existence that doesn't require DNA?I know that synthetics don't need DNA or have it... This argument is under the assumption that it puts together the best of both worlds from each method of sustaining life.

which is.....SPACE MAGIC unless you have an explanation for it that fits within the boundaries given by the universe in question. Also there is no sense in creating a new DNA if it is basically not needed at all. That also rises the issue of procreation amongst the remaining populace and so on and so forth....

Space Magic is a term stupid fans made up to try and make an excuse for their being technology beyond what the current galaxy has discovered and them not liking that it hasn't been discovered in univese yet.

oh right the technology that is a patch work of technologies added by inferiorily advanced species that somehow, someway manage to give extra options to an insanely more advanced being to do something it could not before and magically fuse a whole galaxy of beings using a base code that is not only non universal but non existant in some because they are merely software riding custom made platforms





yeah....no done arguing here

[Bfler]

lx_theo wrote...

Cyborg distinctly implies that the biological and artificial parts are distinctly separate, even if they work together. 

You use cyborg to describe it, you'll have a bunch of rabid people clamoring about how life is like ... This

Please describe a way to merge organic and mechanic parts so that they aren't separate.

[MisterJB]

Bfler wrote...
Please describe a way to merge organic and mechanic parts so that they aren't separate.

You combine the Crucible with the Citadel and then jump into the green beam of light.

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 avril 2012 - 10:22 .

[lx_theo]

eddieoctane wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

 Why do people think that Synthesis would make organics cyborgs or something along those lines? It makes no sense that people would be forced into a cyborg form. In fact, it makes so little sense that it also doesn't make sense that anyone would think that's what it meant. A bit... perplexing, I must say.

The Catalyst told of how synthesis would create a new DNA. He said nothing about how it would alter the physical forms of anyone. What does make sense is that if Synthesis only effects DNA and Sythetic's equivalent. They would be merged to create one fundamental building block of life rather than the two distinctly different ones that were there before. A Geth would simply be another species, like a Human is to a Turian. This is actually the only way it can make sense. If people were transformed into synthetics or cyborgs or something along those lines, it destroys the ability to write a future story coming after because of the huge variation it would force. People still have their free will. They still have their individuality. They are still who they are. The only logical interpretations of synthesis would be ones that change species at such a fundamental level that it can put them on the same playing field without changing the uniqueness of each species and individual. Any interpretation that does not take this in account will not make sense. I don't really understand why anyone would think those to be true. Maybe they are so bitter at the ending they choose to look for the interpretation they can hate on the most?

So please, stop making the silly threads attacking the Synthesis option.

The choice to be something other than synthetic or organic is not left to the individual. It was forced upon the entire galaxy. Forcing such a fundamental change on anyone is a terrible crime deserving of the 9th ring of Hell. It would be the equivalent of releasing an engineered virus that turns your skin purple, your eyes orange, and leave you with the altered facial features so that you look the exact same as the other 7 billion victims...I mean humans exposed to the virus. Because skin color is why everyone on Earth wants to kill each other.

See how retarded that sounds? That is exactly what synthesis does. Hence, it is a retarded option, written by a couple of complete freaking morons. If you think there is an upside to it, you;re kidding yourself. The Reapers are still around. Purely synthetic beings can still be created, unless the green wave somehow animated sub-atomic particles the same way it altered basic physiology on a galactic scale. Yep, that's right. The problem of us vs the robots still occurs, unless electrons are now alive. And the Reapers are still around, so who knows what they are going to do in another 50,000 years.

Your opinion.

I personally don't think that is a such a horrible thing. Much better than destroying a certain race people don't like, or enslavement on a massive scale.

[AtlasMickey]

Hey, this weekend, let's all go get Synthesized.

My treat!

[Comguard2]

From the ending we know that everything is covered with circuits (skin, eyes, leafs, even Joker's cap) - so, well, that's what we've got.

[Ck213]

I doubt the "free will and individuality" angle because that doesn't solve the Catalyst's problem of these free willed individuals going off and creating Pure Synthetics that will only turn around and wipe out their creators. To the Catalyst, free will and individuality is Chaos, the very thing it's working to destroy.

Modifié par Ck213, 23 avril 2012 - 10:34 .

[T-Raks]

lx_theo wrote...

T-Raks wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

I hate synthesis because you're pretty  much giving the reapers what they want.  It's been their goal the whole game.  You have been fighting against that.  Also, the catalyst says that synthesis is the "final evolution".  This is incorrect.  Darwinism has taught us that there is no final evolution.  Evolution is constant.  For their to be a apex or end, is completely contrary to the deffinition of evolution in general.

They have a similar goal, yes, but what you are fighting against is how they do it, not their goals, right? Their goals aren't really even known until the end. You are fighting against ebing harvested more than anything, imo.

As for evolution... I think it means more of a evolution of genetic material than evolution in general.

Man, you really live in your own ME world! Shepard states that he despises the goal of the reapers for example when he states that it's better for the protheans to be dead than collectors. He asks if there is still anything prothean besides the look left in them etc. 

Giving in to the reapers in the end because you think they will finally do this synthesis **** right if they can use Shepard's DNA instead of all the DNA they reaped over all the cycles before is a logical conclusion to Mass Effect. Right! Shepard is all about freedom and everyone making their own choices and not about merging to climb to the so called (by the reaper leader) highest step of evolution. Shepard says directly to Harbinger that he/she and all humanity will fight the reapers goal to dictate the evolution of organics until they succeed or die trying "because this is what humanity does"...

So he/she would never let them decide our fate. So no synthesis! 

No... Synthesis is nothing like the Collectors. Synthesis doesn't take away free will and systematically create a species solely their for enslavement.

Synthesis is deciding the galaxy's fate just as much as the other two... so if you really have a problem with it, you shouldn't have played a game based on choice and expect the end to not do that itself.

IMO you don't seem to understand what Shepard fights for. Just because there are three choices presented doesn't mean that all three choices are equally right. "Crucible" stands for "crucial test". Choosing an evil choice is a fail in my book. You can stay happy with it, because everyone is entitled to his own opinion and I respect that, but please, don't tell me that I shouldn't have played the game. That's poor sport.

[ArchDuck]

What is stopping the organic/synthetic hybrids from making more pure synthetics or organics (or both)?

The synthesis ending does not actually stop the reason that the reapers say they are doing this for. After all, pure synthetics and organics can be made in the future and eventually pure organic life will evolve again.

This ending also destroys the current path of evolution across the galaxy, is being based off of a false idea of evolution having a pinnacle and presents forcing it on others with no thought to whether they want to be genetically rewritten as right.

The catalyst logic is wrong. Evolution by definition has no pinnacle. Also if it did, you could not know what form that would be unless you also knew, with 100% certainty, the exact course of the future.

But you can continue being an apologist of the ending if you like, that is your right.

If you enjoy it then please continue to do so, but please stop trying to say that the rest of us need to start enjoying it or stop explaining why we don't enjoy it.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 23 avril 2012 - 10:27 .

[Madecologist]

AtlasMickey wrote...

Hey, this weekend, let's all go get Synthesized.

My treat!

Sweet. Is upgrade Mandatory?

[stevefox1200]

A hat is synthetic

Is it now partially alive?

If I build a robot out of spare parts does it suddenly get organic DNA when I turn it on?

A computer VI is synthetic, is it now alive?

how does this work?

[DJBare]

lx_theo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Not accepted, I want to remain precisely as I am, getting older and one day to die of  old age hopefully.

I choose to not let the Geth die and not let genocide happen. Your counter argument is?

As much as it pains me, I choose organics freedom of choice over synthetics, that includes my favorite EDI.

Not accepted. I refuse to allow genocide and allow a person to play god with their lives, reating them like pawns ready to be thrown away.

It goes any which way. It's all playing god. 

I don't believe the lying little toad when he states ALL synthetics will be destroyed, I don't believe him because I believe that max EMS causes the crucible to only target reaper tech, and before you mention the upgrades to the geth, the reaper upgrades can be disabled while the geth remain functional, same with EDI.

But you obviously do believe him, so he's got you by the balls doing his dirty work for him *thumbs up*

[Cadeym]

Bfler wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Cyborg distinctly implies that the biological and artificial parts are distinctly separate, even if they work together. 

You use cyborg to describe it, you'll have a bunch of rabid people clamoring about how life is like ... This

Please describe a way to merge organic and mechanic parts so that they aren't separate.

The only way would be to deconstruct everything into some sort of gooey mess just like what can happen to the normandy crew in ME2. And then reconstruct everything once more using this new "DNA" schematic which is aparently a mix of everything. But DNA defines everything about our physical form. That means that every animal and sentient being should have looked exactly the same after using synthesis.

[Sepharih]

MisterJB wrote...

malakim2099 wrote...
Evolution is a natural process over millions of years.
Shepard is choosing to change everything in an instant flash of green light.

See? We're saving time and everything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

[Stalker]

Even if they aimed for a legitimate explanation on how Synthesis would be possible, it is ridiculously shown in what we have so far: Leafs with glowing electric circuits? Really?! That's like the imagination of a kid!

You can't tell me that they haven't aimed for the term 'cyborg' when they drew electric circuits on every living being.
Oh wait, they haven't thought about it at all...

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 23 avril 2012 - 10:31 .

[lx_theo]

Bfler wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Cyborg distinctly implies that the biological and artificial parts are distinctly separate, even if they work together. 

You use cyborg to describe it, you'll have a bunch of rabid people clamoring about how life is like ... This

Please describe a way to merge organic and mechanic parts so that they aren't separate.

Like I said before, it'd be a big challenge to create an in depth method way of describing how it could work. I have doubts even the Bioware writers made an attempt to do this.

So I'm going to go the lazy, but still true route. Wolverine.


EDIT Mouseraider above made a good comment about it.

Modifié par lx_theo, 23 avril 2012 - 10:30 .

[TheCrazyHobo]

lx_theo wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

 Why do people think that Synthesis would make organics cyborgs or something along those lines? It makes no sense that people would be forced into a cyborg form. In fact, it makes so little sense that it also doesn't make sense that anyone would think that's what it meant. A bit... perplexing, I must say.

Cyborg: short for "cybernetic organism", is a being with both biological and artificial (e.g. electronic, mechanical or robotic) parts.

:blink:So yes, it makes everything into cyborgs. Otherwise how do you explain combining synthetic and organic?

Cyborg distinctly implies that the biological and artificial parts are distinctly separate, even if they work together. 

You use cyborg to describe it, you'll have a bunch of rabid people clamoring about how life is like ... This

Umm, no, all cyborgs do not look like the 80's "Terminator" model, sorry.  A cyborg is a cybernetic organism aka an organism that has been enhanced in some way by artifical parts.  That means when Joker gets off the Normandy with his glowing skin, he is now a cyborg.        

[Cobretti ftw]

ANOTHER one claiming that everybody just couldnt understand the greatness of the endings? Specially synthesis that is the worst of them by far.

[element eater]

my take on the synthesis ending is that it is

-forcing change on others
-corrupting all forms of life (with no understanding of its effect)
-no possible way to assume this would effect meaningful change
-is entirely dependant on trusting the star child im not entirely sure the reapers were on the level
-final form of evolution? give me a break

Modifié par element eater, 23 avril 2012 - 10:33 .

[ArchDuck]

lx_theo wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

Cyborg: short for "cybernetic organism", is a being with both biological and artificial (e.g. electronic, mechanical or robotic) parts.

:blink:So yes, it makes everything into cyborgs. Otherwise how do you explain combining synthetic and organic?

Cyborg distinctly implies that the biological and artificial parts are distinctly separate, even if they work together. 

You use cyborg to describe it, you'll have a bunch of rabid people clamoring about how life is like ... This

If this isn't a cyborg what is?

Notice the circuitry?

Modifié par ArchDuck, 23 avril 2012 - 10:32 .

[DJBare]

Cobretti ftw wrote...

ANOTHER one claiming that everybody just couldnt understand the greatness of the endings? Specially synthesis that is the worst of them by far.

He needs to justify all the effort he put in to get that option, forget saving earth with high EMS, synthesis FTW!

[Alent]

lx_theo wrote...
 Why do people think that Synthesis would make organics cyborgs or something along those lines? It makes no sense that people would be forced into a cyborg form. In fact, it makes so little sense that it also doesn't make sense that anyone would think that's what it meant. A bit... perplexing, I must say.

 

The ending cinimatic seemed to imply this though honestly it could be some poor animator trying his best to convey what the writers have just done.

lx_theo wrote... 
The Catalyst told of how synthesis would create a new DNA. He said nothing about how it would alter the physical forms of anyone. 
What does make sense is that if Synthesis only effects DNA and Sythetic's equivalent.

 

Ok, what?  Do you know how DNA works?  Since no one really explains how synthesis works, lets make an assumption: somehow the green light knows about the genetic makeup of every living organism in the galaxy that already has DNA and can somehow manipulate it without causing adverse effects, since in most cases if you alter the DNA even in the slightest you can get horrible defects and unintended consequences.   In what way does synthesis change the DNA to provide a merging of synthetic and organic?  You can't just start replacing protiens or things just cease being who or what they are.  Also, what exactly is the syntetic equivalent to DNA, might I ask?  These robots are made of metal and silicone.

lx_theo wrote...  
 They would be merged to create one fundamental building block of life rather than the two distinctly different ones that were there before. A Geth would simply be another species, like a Human is to a Turian. This is actually the only way it can make sense. If people were transformed into synthetics or cyborgs or something along those lines, it destroys the ability to write a future story coming after because of the huge variation it would force. People still have their free will. They still have their individuality. They are still who they are. The only logical interpretations of synthesis would be ones that change species at such a fundamental level that it can put them on the same playing field without changing the uniqueness of each species and individual.

This whole rant is so compeletly misinformed that I'm not even sure where to start.  What are the so called fundamental building blocks of organic life?  DNA?  Are you telling me this thing futzed with viruses, bacteria, and other single celled organisms?  If it is DNA, how did it take Geth, which seem to be some collection of highly advanced electronics (silicone wafers and various metals) stuffed inside some light up tubes and a metal body.  Does the metal suddenly have DNA?  Do they breath now, do they eat?  How do Geth eat?  they don't have mouths!  Do people have to start plugging themselves in?  I thought you said synthesis didn't change anyone physically.  Does all metal have DNA now?

Lets talk individuality.  what makes you you?  Your DNA does!  It determines the chemical processes that govern your body, and your body is the environment that your psyche grows up in.  If your DNA is that of a superstar athelete you are going to grow up feeling empowered and strong, if it decides you are a fat nerdy kid you are probably going to end up with a few emotional issues (it's ok, thearpy helps).  My main point is the second your DNA is changed, you stop being you.  You are now something different.  Also, just a point: star brat never makes any claims that "everyone you know and love will stay as they currently are mentally and physically".

lx_theo wrote...  
So please, stop making the silly threads attacking the Synthesis option.

no u

tl;dr: 

Modifié par Alent, 23 avril 2012 - 10:35 .

[lx_theo]

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Not accepted, I want to remain precisely as I am, getting older and one day to die of  old age hopefully.

I choose to not let the Geth die and not let genocide happen. Your counter argument is?

As much as it pains me, I choose organics freedom of choice over synthetics, that includes my favorite EDI.

Not accepted. I refuse to allow genocide and allow a person to play god with their lives, reating them like pawns ready to be thrown away.

It goes any which way. It's all playing god. 

I don't believe the lying little toad when he states ALL synthetics will be destroyed, I don't believe him because I believe that max EMS causes the crucible to only target reaper tech, and before you mention the upgrades to the geth, the reaper upgrades can be disabled while the geth remain functional, same with EDI.

But you obviously do believe him, so he's got you by the balls doing his dirty work for him *thumbs up*

Don't insult me. I work with the info given to me. If you choose not to believe the one person who actually would have an idea what may happen for each, feel free to trust your instincts and try to explain them without any prior knowledge of how they work. 

Trusting your gut has always been the smart way to find out how things work, rather than first hand sources.