139 réponses à ce sujet

[vania z]

When creating new game setting, should they consult professionals? I think ME would have greatly benifited if they actually used help from scientists to create codex and maybe fix some plot twists, which require something to be possible IRL.  

[metawanderer]

I believe it depends on the game. Star Wars obviously should not need much real science but something like Mass Effect or even Deus Ex needs to have their lore grounded in real science in order for the fiction of the world to be believable.

[vania z]

metawanderer wrote...

I believe it depends on the game. Star Wars obviously should not need much real science but something like Mass Effect or even Deus Ex needs to have their lore grounded in real science in order for the fiction of the world to be believable.

Well, we are in ME forums so I thought it's obvious I was talking about ME, sorry if I didn't make it clear:) 

[Sgt Stryker]

If those developers intend to advertise their game as incorporating elements of hard science-fiction, then yes, they should hire professionals to fact-check the science.

[AlanC9]

Nah. ME was supposed to be based on 70's-80's sci-fi; good science would have been all wrong for such a game.

Was ME ever advertised as a hard SF game? I don't remember that, and it was pretty obvious from the get-go that it wasn't trying to be such.

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 avril 2012 - 10:41 .

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Bioware did have a scientist kind of guy who they could consult regarding a lot of the ME physics/lore etc.so they're not too much of a stretch and are actually semi-realistic/possible.

[Madecologist]

They probably should also get a military consultant. If you are going to tell a story about a Commander of a special forces branch, while taking orders from Admirals, operating in a military-eque scenario. It wouldn't hurt to get your military jargon and methodology right.

Albiet you would not use the slang and still use common parlance, but it doesn't hurt to know the methodology and traditions.

Modifié par Madecologist, 23 avril 2012 - 10:43 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Madecologist wrote...

They probably should also get a military consultant. If you are going to tell a story about a Commander of a special forces branch, while taking orders from Admirals, operating in a military-eque scenario. It wouldn't hurt to get your military jargon and methodology right.

Albiet you would not use the slang and still use common parlance, but it doesn't hurt to know the methodology and traditions.

If I had a time machine, I would go back to 2005 or whenever they started development, and tell Casey Hudson to do three things.

Hire this guy as science consultant, hire this guy as military consultant, and write out the entire background, beginning, and ending for all three games before releasing the first one!

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 23 avril 2012 - 10:47 .

[vania z]

Madecologist wrote...

They probably should also get a military consultant. If you are going to tell a story about a Commander of a special forces branch, while taking orders from Admirals, operating in a military-eque scenario. It wouldn't hurt to get your military jargon and methodology right.

Albiet you would not use the slang and still use common parlance, but it doesn't hurt to know the methodology and traditions.

Still counts as scientist:lol: And I wouldn't mind some historians, who know how battles were fought. Because since DA:O they do all battles wrong. 

Modifié par vania z, 23 avril 2012 - 10:50 .

[vania z]

SKiLLYWiLLY2 wrote...

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Bioware did have a scientist kind of guy who they could consult regarding a lot of the ME physics/lore etc.so they're not too much of a stretch and are actually semi-realistic/possible.

In a year I will be bachelor in nuclear physics and can tell that anyone who studied well at schoold will find physics of ME silly. I consider this a problem. 

[_symphony]

Mass Effect's pseudo-science is pretty well done, until you get to the ending I guess ...

[Navasha]

Um... This is science fiction. By definition it is NOT realistic.

Any scientist today will tell you flat out that faster than light travel is NOT possible. EEzo doesn't exist. Biotics don't exist. None of that is possible.

[vania z]

Navasha wrote...

Um... This is science fiction. By definition it is NOT realistic.

Any scientist today will tell you flat out that faster than light travel is NOT possible. EEzo doesn't exist. Biotics don't exist. None of that is possible.

Do you know what sci-fi is? Here, let me copypaste this for you
"Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with imaginary but more or less plausible (or at least non-supernatural) content such as future settings, futuristic science and technology, space travel, aliens, and paranormal abilities. Exploring the consequences of scientific innovations is one purpose of science fiction, making it a "literature of ideas"."
The keyword is PLAUSIBLE. FTL is plausible, but not they way it is done in game. Element zero, which can manipulate gravity force, is also completely fine. Guns with it are not fine. Ftl using eezo is not fine. Something like 90% of codex is not fine. 

[Madecologist]

Navasha wrote...

Um... This is science fiction. By definition it is NOT realistic.

Any scientist today will tell you flat out that faster than light travel is NOT possible. EEzo doesn't exist. Biotics don't exist. None of that is possible.

The point of a scientific consultant is not to try to make things realistic. Since things in a science fiction is going to be unrealistic.

The point of a scientific consultant is to make sure where you do try to use real science to explain your stuff is still sound.

Basically most sci-fi will have what is called leap of reason, or 'distortion element'. The scientific consultant will help you smooth out the parts between so it sounds more legit. They will also point out where your 'leaps of reason' and 'distortion elements' are, so the writers can focus on either lampshading them better or puting them more into context.

There is a huge difference between saying we found element X which when alloyed into metal Y and proccess Z is run through it will produce a bubble of reality that proves Einstien wrong. Within this bubble we can do this... (start making sense again). Then saying we found element X: we now have Ninja Zombie Pirates riding Dinosaurs in space!

While a military consultant will make sure no one ever confused as to Kaidan's rank of Major and where he stands in the heirarchy. Heck you wouldn't have that jumbled mess of a rank struture people pull off of the Wikia website or that incomplete mess you had in ME1.

People really do need to learn the difference between Science Fiction and 'Space Fantasy'.

Modifié par Madecologist, 23 avril 2012 - 11:49 .

[The Razman]

You don't need scientists to make things believable. That's what writers do.

[LegendaryBlade]

One of the most successful Sci Fi franchises of all time, Star Trek, frequently ran information by Scientists. Even when blatantly stretched or incorrect science was used, they did their best to at least make it SEEM feesible.

What i'm getting at is, yes.

[The Razman]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

One of the most successful Sci Fi franchises of all time, Star Trek, frequently ran information by Scientists. Even when blatantly stretched or incorrect science was used, they did their best to at least make it SEEM feesible.

What i'm getting at is, yes.

And Star Trek's technobabble is legendary for making fans of the science-fiction genre social outcasts. Most modern sci-fi shows try to steer away from that stuff as much as possible.

Just because one show did something doesn't make it a positive thing to do for all sci-fi.

[vania z]

The Razman wrote...

You don't need scientists to make things believable. That's what writers do.

Writers should understand what they are writing about. Easiest way is to consult scientist, hardest - learn everything by yourself, but this will take years. 

[AlexMBrennan]

I think that a bit more effort could have been put into making lore and plot consistent and make sense. Scientists will probably have the basic understanding of logic that's necessary [a mathematician would be even better since we don't care if the axioms we build our theories on are actually true].

But you do not have to explain everything with real science.

Do you know what sci-fi is? Here, let me copypaste this for you
[Wikipedia quote]
The keyword is PLAUSIBLE.

Actually, it's "more or less plausible". The next sentence is

The settings for science fiction are often contrary to known reality,

So, you're relying on quote-mining Wikipedia... I think you're losing this argument rather fast.

At best, you can show that ME is not science fiction - which is irrelevant since the question at hand is whether or not developers should consult scientists. The answer remains no - basing the game on real science would not improve it.

[Madecologist]

The Razman wrote...

You don't need scientists to make things believable. That's what writers do.

Some writers can do that because they have a strong background in science. Probably did pay attention to the science classes they took in High School or College, or bothered to read a few books about the subject. Basically did their homework. Doesn't take a lot to make things believable, but you need a grasp of what you are writing about.

Some writers just rely on outside support to tell them the facts. That were the idea of consultants show up for a lot of writing. Usually common when you have a staff of writers working on the project. But if you don't have someone coach you or you don't do your own homework... it is hard to make something believable. Handwaving can only take you so far.

Also most good writers admit to going to outside sources or doing their own research before writing a story when they want to make things believable.

The writers of Deus Ex actually went and spoke with people in the field of limb replacement and with experts in field. They also interviewed people who are using prototype replacement limbs. The game designers actually spoke with firearm technicians and fired said guns in shooting ranges to get the feel of how weapons really worked.

[The Razman]

vania z wrote...

The Razman wrote...

You don't need scientists to make things believable. That's what writers do.

Writers should understand what they are writing about. Easiest way is to consult scientist, hardest - learn everything by yourself, but this will take years. 

They really don't. Nobody except nerds really cares about the science ... who watches Star Trek and is thinking about the scientific plausiblity that's being portrayed by the Heisenburg compensators? I mean really?

The writers write the story they want to. The "scientific plausibility" of it is written in after.

[vania z]

AlexMBrennan wrote...
But you do not have to explain everything with real science.

Actually, it's "more or less plausible". The next sentence is

The settings for science fiction are often contrary to known reality,

So, you're relying on quote-mining Wikipedia... I think you're losing this argument rather fast.
 

Am I? Really?
You see, science allows a lot of thing to work, it just happens they do not exist in real life. You can even create magic wich follows laws of physics, there is nothing wrong with that. It will be plausible and based on real science. It does not exist in real world. sure, but hey, it is a fiction. 

[Sgt Stryker]

The Razman wrote...

vania z wrote...

The Razman wrote...

You don't need scientists to make things believable. That's what writers do.

Writers should understand what they are writing about. Easiest way is to consult scientist, hardest - learn everything by yourself, but this will take years. 

They really don't. Nobody except nerds really cares about the science ... who watches Star Trek and is thinking about the scientific plausiblity that's being portrayed by the Heisenburg compensators? I mean really?

The writers write the story they want to. The "scientific plausibility" of it is written in after.

Haha, did you really just say "nerds"? How did I end up back in high school? 

[The Razman]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

The Razman wrote...

vania z wrote...

The Razman wrote...

You don't need scientists to make things believable. That's what writers do.

Writers should understand what they are writing about. Easiest way is to consult scientist, hardest - learn everything by yourself, but this will take years. 

They really don't. Nobody except nerds really cares about the science ... who watches Star Trek and is thinking about the scientific plausiblity that's being portrayed by the Heisenburg compensators? I mean really?

The writers write the story they want to. The "scientific plausibility" of it is written in after.

Haha, did you really just say "nerds"? How did I end up back in high school? 

... how is "nerd" a high-school term?

[Sgt Stryker]

It reflects an anti-intellectual attitude that most people grow out of after they finish high school.