139 réponses à ce sujet

[clipped_wolf]

There is evidence to suggest that a human's thoughts could have an effect on the way that certain genes manifest. Again, the DNA isn't changed, but the proteins, hormones, and other chemicals that are attached to the strand can suppress or enhance the manifestation of genes. The way this process works is already written into human DNA. The study of this is called Epigenetics.

The instructions for a mutagenic hormone could be within the Asari's DNA. Not sure what the codex says, but as we understand genetics it's in the realm of possibility.

[Madecologist]

AlanC9 wrote...

Madecologist wrote...
As for the Asari they are a species that reproduces via parthenogenesis while using some sort of neurostimulation to encourge cross gene mixing. I am assuming they are a diploid species. For a complex lifeform as a humanoid species, this is highly unlikely but it does manage to skit within the realm of maybe possible on some alien planet. So suspension of disbelief is not broken.

Unless you start thinking about the "father" in the relationship being meaningful. What, the asari reproductive system can analyze the psyche of the "father" and then select the appropriate assortment of genes to activate?

The problem is we enter the realm of Xenobiology (which doesn't exist as a real field IRL, for obvious reasons) which most certainly will change a lot of concepts. I am pretty sure the defination of sex, sexual reproduction, sexual recombination, and parthogenesis will change a bit.

It is like how Evolution had a few minor revision to its defination and now we have two variant. Macro and Micro evolution. But they do share a common defination for the most part.

By today's broad defination (since we don't need to worry about Asari), what the Asari do can be considered a form of Parthogenesis. Pretty sure if this was to really happen (we encounter an Asari like race), the boys and girls at Oxford and other fine human institutions will hit the books and redine what Parthogenesis means.

Will the new defination clear it up so the Asari can be included easily, or will it properly define what asexual means now that we met the Asari (and thus probably change our scientific defination of sex as well) and still consider them a form of sexual reproduction because we expanded the meaning of that one.

Honestly from a thought excercise point of view... I totally would love to be there in that conference room having heated debates about the nature of sexual reproduction and having an Asari guest speaker smiling coely at us as we debate it, afterwards she offers us the Asari's views on the matter.

Too bad it isn't real. Would be fun stuff.

Modifié par Madecologist, 26 avril 2012 - 03:43 .

[AlanC9]

Epigenetics is fine --- the problem I have is with the system determining which genes to activate based on the telepathy through a non-conscious and automatic process. This is supposed to have evolved?

Plus telepathy is space magic too, but let's not get into that.

[graaahhhh]

hhgttg which is arguably scifi with a comic bent would like to introduce you to the infinite inprobablity drive .. ok extreme example but the majority of sci-fi does just fine without 101 consultants
remeber its scienceFICTION

Modifié par graaahhhh, 24 avril 2012 - 11:11 .

[Psychlonus]

The bottom line to all sci fi that employs FTL is that it is either grounded in existing theoretical possibilities, or it posits the discovery of a system of physics that is more general than what we currently accept. SR and GR are a system of physics that is more general than Newtonian physics, in that Newtonian physics is a mathematical approximation of SR and GR under special conditions. Likewise; SR, GR and quantum are all mathematical approximations under special conditions of some more general system presented in the sci-fi. Therefore there is a lot of room for plausible stuff, even without the consultation of a scientist.

If someone wrote some sci-fi in the 1800's that presented things that resemble SR, GR or quantum, incredulous people would be asking why the author didn't consult a real scientist.

Modifié par Psychlonus, 25 avril 2012 - 12:05 .

[CompositeGNR]

vania z wrote...

When creating new game setting, should they consult professionals? I think ME would have greatly benifited if they actually used help from scientists to create codex and maybe fix some plot twists, which require something to be possible IRL.  

actually they somewhat did, look in the credits of ME and ME2 for Chris L'toile (sp), he wrote noveria and most of Thane in ME2, but quit halfway through ME2's development, he occassionally helps out on the mass effect wiki, example on the Biotics talk page.

[Madecologist]

Well as discussed earlier, I think the bigger issue is the lack of consistency. Some believe a consultant would help with that. But the truth is just writers doing their homework (yes writers need to do 'homework' you don't just whip any old story out), and keeping consistence would be enough.

In the case of a commitee writen story, make sure the lead is on top of things and not just doing his own thing while almost every part of the story goes through the peer review process to make sure each piece is consistant with the other pieces written by the other writers.

Some feel at some places Bioware lost its consistency.

[Psychlonus]

Madecologist wrote...

Well as discussed earlier, I think the bigger issue is the lack of consistency. Some believe a consultant would help with that. But the truth is just writers doing their homework (yes writers need to do 'homework' you don't just whip any old story out), and keeping consistence would be enough...

.

agreed

[HBC Dresden]

To OP, uhhh the ending everyone hates is based off astrobiological theories, so I don't think making it more sciencey would do any good for the fanbase around here.

[clipped_wolf]

Madecologist wrote...
Some feel at some places Bioware lost its consistency.

Yup.

[IanPolaris]

tractrpl wrote...

mmm buddah23 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

mmm buddah23 wrote...

If they consulted scientis, FTL would never be in any game, if you travel FTL speeds and collide with a marbel sized object, the resulting explosion would be larger than 100 nuclear bombs. SO no.

That's just not true.  FTL is necessary for a lot of cluster or galaxy spanning Sci-Fi.  Futhermore there is at least some cutting edge science (notably areas of GR and Quantum Theory in Curved space) that allow at least the shred of some sort of "Global" FTL drives existing (there are phenonma well known today such as gravitational lensing that are globally FTL but don't violate relativity).  The classic example is the wormhole.  In fact wormholes have recently become somewhat more plausible since apparently energy with a negative stress-energy tensor seem to exist (Dark Energy) but are currently poorly understood.

The point is that a casual "sci-fi" series like Mass Effect doesn't (and probably shouldn't) go into this in any depth, but if you can at least appeal to general plausibility and get the reader to say, "OK,I can roll with this" then you are most of the way there.

-Polaris

So you are tlling me the leading scientist for astronomy and astro physics in germany is wrong? Good show. What happens when a meteor hits our planet going 50 thousand miles per hour, yeah, massie explosion, now imagine a dreadnought going FTL hitting a small object in space, that equals a giant explosion. Its simple physics. And space is full of small to large objects that are very uncharted. Wormholes are the only feasible way to travel the galaxy.

There are two types of theoretical FTL, one's a wormhole (Mass Relay) the other is an an Alcubierre Drive (Conventional FTL drive the Normandy uses to travel from star to star within a cluster, without using a Relay). In the first, you don't have to worry about object in your way, you just connect two distant points. For the second, you also probably don't have to worry about objects in your way as much. In an Alcubierre Drive, the ship actually sits motionless in a moving warp field. When the field encounters another object, hmmm, it looks like an Alcubierre drive would have some sort of lensing affect, causing anything in front of it to move or flow around the bubble. It appears that the ship itself would be safe from damn near anything while within its bubble, but the things that it runs into could be ripped apart. Two Alcubierre equipped ships would just slip past each other, more than likely, or alter course, or even go into some sort of crazy FTL orbital spin, creating insane gravitational waves. 

Polaris, is this what you're getting? I haven't seen any articles explaining in detail what would happen if an Alcubierre Drive runs into external object. Perhaps my idea with the control ending with sending the Reapers into the nearest star was a bad idea...

Sorry was busy today.  Yes, this is actually a very good description of both types at least as I understand it.

-Polaris

[vania z]

AlanC9 wrote...


Hell, even the ME lore gets this right, since you only get FTL in ME by reducing the ship's mass.

That's one of the things I'm talking about. This is absolutely stupid and has nothing to do with science. 

[vania z]

Uriko128 wrote...


I agree with you, but truth is I have never expected ME to give a "real" scientific explanation about its events, because if they wanted to do such a thing, they should start by re-launching the three games with that "mass effect" thing erased, because as far as I know, "mass", like energy, can not be destroyed, and even if it could, the idea of "a relay that makes the mass of the ships equals to zero" must sound very funny to a physicist.

If it were not mass, but gravity(which I think they ment all along, since mass effect core creates gravity in ships) it is fine. But They can't go FTL by changing ships weight or mass. Creating some space-time curvatute they can.

[Swordfishtrombone]

clipped_wolf wrote...

There is evidence to suggest that a human's thoughts could have an effect on the way that certain genes manifest. Again, the DNA isn't changed, but the proteins, hormones, and other chemicals that are attached to the strand can suppress or enhance the manifestation of genes. The way this process works is already written into human DNA. The study of this is called Epigenetics.

Um. No.

Epigenetics is the name for processes that regulate gene expression without changing the DNA sequence of genes. This tends to happen in response to environmental change, changes in the circumstances that the organism finds itself in. That conscious thoughts could affect gene expression is pretty out there. It is conceivable, and I might perhaps even consider it probable, that things like whether you are crhonically stressed or not, or how highly you are stressed, could, through the presense of stress hormones in your body, result in temporary changes in gene expression through epigenetic mechanisms, but this is a far cry from thoughts changing gene expression.

There is some evidence for multi-generational epigenetic changes, mainly in plants and microbes, but they tend not to be permanent, and are often reversed in later generations. It seems that these sorts of epigenetic changes allow for the expression of a few varieties of alternative phenotypes from the same genome, depending on environment.

The Asari reproduction would require conscious thoughts to alter DNA, not just epigenetic changes in DNA expression. Further, to get some "essense" of the being they mated with, they would have to somehow cognitively decode the inheritable material in the individual of the other species, translate it into something equivalent for their own genetic material, and then somehow re-write their genetic material in the egg to include this new information.

This, really goes far, far beyond what epigenetics even at it's most extreme interpretations, proposes.

[Uriko128]

 

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

clipped_wolf wrote...

There is evidence to suggest that a human's thoughts could have an effect on the way that certain genes manifest. Again, the DNA isn't changed, but the proteins, hormones, and other chemicals that are attached to the strand can suppress or enhance the manifestation of genes. The way this process works is already written into human DNA. The study of this is called Epigenetics.

Um. No. 

Epigenetics is the name for processes that regulate gene expression without changing the DNA sequence of genes. This tends to happen in response to environmental change, changes in the circumstances that the organism finds itself in. That conscious thoughts could affect gene expression is pretty out there. It is conceivable, and I might perhaps even consider it probable, that things like whether you are crhonically stressed or not, or how highly you are stressed, could, through the presense of stress hormones in your body, result in temporary changes in gene expression through epigenetic mechanisms, but this is a far cry from thoughts changing gene expression.

There is some evidence for multi-generational epigenetic changes, mainly in plants and microbes, but they tend not to be permanent, and are often reversed in later generations. It seems that these sorts of epigenetic changes allow for the expression of a few varieties of alternative phenotypes from the same genome, depending on environment. 

The Asari reproduction would require conscious thoughts to alter DNA, not just epigenetic changes in DNA expression. Further, to get some "essense" of the being they mated with, they would have to somehow cognitively decode the inheritable material in the individual of the other species, translate it into something equivalent for their own genetic material, and then somehow re-write their genetic material in the egg to include this new information.

This, really goes far, far beyond what epigenetics even at it's most extreme interpretations, proposes.

True, but I think the guy was suggesting that "it could be possible, because it shares some similarities with epigenetics process". We are discussing from a theorical point of view.

Plus I'm not so sure that conscious thoughts can't alter DNA expression. For example, if you start thinking about sad things, you will get depressed, and if you are depressed... Could that alter gene expresion? I'm quite sure it can.

I think the dificult thing here is in the way asari can understand the DNA sequence of their mates through a nervous conection (is it telepathy? Or is it actually phisical? I can't remember). Maybe this isn't conscious but automatical, maybe they automaticaly copy the dominant alleles of their mate, which often offer more survival capability than recesive ones. Although this sounds quite odd and random, because not every species are multiallelic and not all dominant alleles offer advantages.
Well, who knows. But as madecologist said, I would also love to be in that future debate about asari 

Modifié par Uriko128, 25 avril 2012 - 11:37 .