110 réponses à ce sujet

[ABjerre]

Highlord Heian wrote...

ABjerre wrote...
The problem is that you assume that has unlimited time to farm credits, and that "playing the game" = "enjoying the game" for everyone.

I'm just going to stop your terrible, terrible logic right there.

You're saying you should spend money on a game you don't enjoy playing.

Go ahead and think about that now, because it's pretty clear you didn't think about it before typing it out.

I think its pretty clear that you didnt read my post, or perhaps you didnt understand it very well. Or more likely, that you will never be able to understand any reasons for doing something, besides your own. If you had read the entire post, or just the rest of the paragraph that you so kindly quoted the first half of, perhaps you would have understood the logic behind it.

"The problem is that you assume that has unlimited time to farm credits, and that "playing the game" = "enjoying the game" for everyone. I enjoy the game on silver when playing with friends and having a laugh. Credit farming on the other hand, is not something that i particularly enjoy, even though it still falls under the "playing the game"."

My point is, that i enjoy some aspects of the game (such as having fun with friends with the best weapons avalible), and there are other aspects, that i do not enjoy very much - grinding credits being to unlock said weapons being one.

I dont percieve $150 as the vast fortune that some people here does, and i very much enjoy my job. If spending that amount allows me to avoid an aspect of the game that i dont like, and would otherwise have to spend many many hours on, then i would personally rather go to work for just as long.

Modifié par ABjerre, 24 avril 2012 - 11:14 .

[withneelandi]

I don't quite understand why having an issue with "pay to win" automatically equals a lack of ability to pay to win. I can happily throw a few hundred pounds at spectre packs to have the best equipment in the game but as a consumer I want to play a game where victory is based on your ability to play the game not on how much money you are happy to throw at it.

A genuinely competitive experience is needed to make a game satisfying, similarly excluding people who can't sink 8 hours into the game is as much of a problem.

In my experience it is simply not the case that sinking hours a day into farming is needed to have a decent weapons load out and I worry that the more people that do as the op has done and sink three figure sums into weapons the more companies will see "pay to win" as a viable business model. If the game goes to far that way all players loose, not just the ones that don't have the disposable income to buy aditional in game weapons.

I could do what the op has done, but I worry about the long term impact it has on the gameplay experience we all have.

[AlexMBrennan]

OP has failed a spot check. The system is intentionally designed to be frustrating - you're not supposed to get the gear you want in a reasonable timeframe because they want you spend real cash instead.

[stysiaq]

why spend money on something you'll eventually unlock for free?

[Sacrificial Bias]

withneelandi wrote...

I don't quite understand why having an issue with "pay to win" automatically equals a lack of ability to pay to win. I can happily throw a few hundred pounds at spectre packs to have the best equipment in the game but as a consumer I want to play a game where victory is based on your ability to play the game not on how much money you are happy to throw at it.

A genuinely competitive experience is needed to make a game satisfying, similarly excluding people who can't sink 8 hours into the game is as much of a problem.

In my experience it is simply not the case that sinking hours a day into farming is needed to have a decent weapons load out and I worry that the more people that do as the op has done and sink three figure sums into weapons the more companies will see "pay to win" as a viable business model. If the game goes to far that way all players loose, not just the ones that don't have the disposable income to buy aditional in game weapons.

I could do what the op has done, but I worry about the long term impact it has on the gameplay experience we all have.

Don't misunderstand me.  I don't expect to be given a customized Revenant that one-hits everything I point it at.  Just saying overall gameplay could be improved if everything was more progressive.  I also think an ideal situation would be having more people(maybe 50 in 1000) take out maybe 10 bucks for packs "just for giggles" rather than only have an occasional oddball shell out $100 for packs at a rate of 1/1000.  One way to do this would be to make low damage weapons easy to get ahold of, and high damage weapons more out of reach, and keep the "balance" as such rather than stupidly buffing the Mattock to the point where it vastly outdamages the Saber.  Really no incentive there to shoot for an N7 AR.

The store system could be more rewarding with less punishment.  People would be more willing to spend an occasional $3 on limited time PSPs if they didn't have the looming prospect of being completely screwed over by getting 2 character cards they already have maxed out for 3 out of 5 packs.  There would also be less credit farming and more actual PLAYING THE GAME for whatever suits their fancy if players didn't feel rushed to grind credits while the limited packs are still available in the store.

Having unlocked all the characters and most of the weapons(that I want anyway), you'd think I might've shot myself in the foot because now what?  Well now I try mixing various combinations of classes, builds, and weapons.  Even if all my weapons are unlocked with everything at X, the game would still have replay value because at this point I'm less obsessed about getting weapons and more on getting better at various classes.  

[Sacrificial Bias]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

OP has failed a spot check. The system is intentionally designed to be frustrating - you're not supposed to get the gear you want in a reasonable timeframe because they want you spend real cash instead.

Supposedly yes, yet they never fixed the repeat Wave 10 exploit, so I have some doubts about that, as all they seem to be doing is driving people towards cheating and grinding.

I also never mentioned anything about improving ultra rare weapon drop rates.  Just to make it worth the while to actually buy packs to obtain them.  What would be my incentive to buy packs because I supposedly want the Saber, but the Mattock I already have outdamages it by a rather large margin?

You can leave the timeframe where it is.  Again, I just think it's better to make it appealing to more people to buy the packs in small amounts rather than rely on a few idiots to buy them en masse.

[JasonSovereign]

So many mad people lol. If 150$ is a lot for you, get a job and stop leeching off your parents.

[Hyunsai]

It is when you're leeching off your parents that 150$ is nothing.

When you're on your own, things are quite different.

[ABjerre]

JasonSovereign wrote...

So many mad people lol. If 150$ is a lot for you, get a job and stop leeching off your parents.

All day, every day...
"Would you like fries with that sir?"

Later...
"Moooom, i'm hoooome!" or "Moooom, i'm down heeeere!"

Later...
"Not now mom, i'm on wave 9!"
"Moooom, can i borrow $150 to pay for... stuff?"

But on the interweb...
"Bow before me mortals! My logic is perfect and my word is law. I say $150 is many moneys"

Modifié par ABjerre, 24 avril 2012 - 12:15 .

[Sacrificial Bias]

ABjerre wrote...

JasonSovereign wrote...

So many mad people lol. If 150$ is a lot for you, get a job and stop leeching off your parents.

All day, every day...
"Would you like fries with that sir?"

Later...
"Moooom, i'm hoooome!" or "Moooom, i'm down heeeere!"

Later...
"Not now mom, i'm on wave 9!"
"Moooom, can i borrow $150 to pay for... stuff?"

But on the interweb...
"Bow before me mortals! My logic is perfect and my word is law. I say $150 is many moneys"

Speaking from experience;)?

My wage is $11.65/hr and still rising.  I figure 2 days worth of pay is worth it to take the stress off of wiping my coworkers asses all day long.

Grinding FB:W Geth with an Adept, a class I don't much like outside of the Drell is not really my idea of stress relief.  If anything, it just feels like MORE WORK.

Again, I'm not asking for rank X N7 weapons to be guaranteed to me.  Just make it worth the $150 worth of PSPs to get them in the first place, or the 33 hours of grinding Gold for the next guy.  Whichever route you pick.  No wait, screw that.  Actually make the prospect of HAVING a rank X N7 weapon an appealing proposition:police:.

[withneelandi]

Don't get me wrong op i'm not a 100% dead against any form of store system and I can see some good in a more sensible system but I do worry about the end point that this model of gaming gets us to.

I can see an argument for example for the much criticised battle field "unlock every thing" dlc, from the point of view that as a new player it can be difficult to jump into a game 6 months after release in which everyone has amazing guns and you have a pee shooter, oddly I think that has a role in levelling the playing field, which I think is in everyone's intererest, player an developer alike.

I generally fear where we might be in five years time, I don't want the only people with good in game stuff to be people with graduate jobs like me, and frankly even with a decent income I think £65.99 is a price point at which I shouldnt have to be pushed towards paying to unlock.

Paying for content based dlc is one thing, but I don't want gaming to be a rich mans hobby even if I am lucky enough to be the proverbial rich man.

[ABjerre]

Sacrificial Bias wrote...
Again, I'm not asking for rank X N7 weapons to be guaranteed to me.  Just make it worth the $150 worth of PSPs to get them in the first place, or the 33 hours of grinding Gold for the next guy.  Whichever route you pick.  No wait, screw that.  Actually make the prospect of HAVING a rank X N7 weapon an appealing proposition:police:.

Nah, it was merely a witty comment - not directed at anyone in particular, and definantly not at you. If you feel ripped that your $150 got you nothing, i am completely on your side, and i appreciate that you posted it on the forums. I see it as a warning not to repeat your mistake, more than i see it as a complaint.

There are probably many people with no rare weapons, that would feel that they got great value for money, but as soon as rares are maxed, the value of each pack is drastically reduced as character cards are being used as "fillers" to keep the chance of getting Ultra Rares at a constant level, regardless of what other unlocks you have.

[Dr-Rai1]

Not to be a jerk or anything, but you make $11.65 an hour and are willing to spend $150 on pixels that you won't ever get to actually own? I mean the online features of this game will be gone in a few years unlike the disc of the single player game you bought.

JasonSovereign keeps saying "lol mad they don't have money" etc but I don't think it's that, people just have a hard time understanding that you could waste that much money on....well, pixels. I make far more than you and wouldn't dare, I mean with that I could buy my girlfriend some nice Tiffany's earrings or something at the very least! So yeah I find it ludicrous.

Oh and you mentioned that this will help people not spend money and make BW lose revenue on that end...well you are a perfect example of that not happening, people have complained here before that they spent X amount of dollars and got crap, yet you rolled by and dropped $150 so yeah....and also I noticed you changed the title from spending $150 to just buying 50 PSPs, so again not really "helping" other people now is it? Lol.

[Relix28]

I guess someone had to find out the hard way. Can't say I feel sorry for him.

[Descy_]

Dr-Rai1 wrote...

Not to be a jerk or anything, but you make $11.65 an hour and are willing to spend $150 on pixels that you won't ever get to actually own? I mean the online features of this game will be gone in a few years unlike the disc of the single player game you bought.

JasonSovereign keeps saying "lol mad they don't have money" etc but I don't think it's that, people just have a hard time understanding that you could waste that much money on....well, pixels. I make far more than you and wouldn't dare, I mean with that I could buy my girlfriend some nice Tiffany's earrings or something at the very least! So yeah I find it ludicrous.

Oh and you mentioned that this will help people not spend money and make BW lose revenue on that end...well you are a perfect example of that not happening, people have complained here before that they spent X amount of dollars and got crap, yet you rolled by and dropped $150 so yeah....and also I noticed you changed the title from spending $150 to just buying 50 PSPs, so again not really "helping" other people now is it? Lol.

And how much money have you spent on discs that show you pixels? I mean, that's all a game is. just pixels, right? Who cares about entertainment, cause games are just pixels.

[SumthingStupid789]

i dont understand how it is their fault, if you read the descriptions of the packs it clearly tells you what you should be expecting to receive from them. And if you spent 150$ and didn't realize earlier that you were being "ripped off" that seems a little weird.

[Highlord Heian]

ABjerre wrote...

Highlord Heian wrote...

ABjerre wrote...
The problem is that you assume that has unlimited time to farm credits, and that "playing the game" = "enjoying the game" for everyone.

I'm just going to stop your terrible, terrible logic right there.

You're saying you should spend money on a game you don't enjoy playing.

Go ahead and think about that now, because it's pretty clear you didn't think about it before typing it out.

I think its pretty clear that you didnt read my post, or perhaps you didnt understand it very well. Or more likely, that you will never be able to understand any reasons for doing something, besides your own. If you had read the entire post, or just the rest of the paragraph that you so kindly quoted the first half of, perhaps you would have understood the logic behind it.

"The problem is that you assume that has unlimited time to farm credits, and that "playing the game" = "enjoying the game" for everyone. I enjoy the game on silver when playing with friends and having a laugh. Credit farming on the other hand, is not something that i particularly enjoy, even though it still falls under the "playing the game"."

My point is, that i enjoy some aspects of the game (such as having fun with friends with the best weapons avalible), and there are other aspects, that i do not enjoy very much - grinding credits being to unlock said weapons being one.

I dont percieve $150 as the vast fortune that some people here does, and i very much enjoy my job. If spending that amount allows me to avoid an aspect of the game that i dont like, and would otherwise have to spend many many hours on, then i would personally rather go to work for just as long.

So no, you didn't think about what you typed before you typed it, because you had to completely modify what you said. And it's still rubbish.

Nothing is squeezing your throat "making" you grind. That is your perception. Nothing pressures you to have X weapons, especially considering most of the classes function perfectly fine without including their weapons. But you constantly allude to some ethereal "requirement" to grind that doesn't exist.

I have my rare weapons capped out, and I've never had to buy packs, and I've never had to "grind". I lobby-hop, I get credits incrimentally, and I'd occaisonally spend them on packs and collect weapons. I didn't even have to stay in gold, I promoted and did some bronze and silver, played with some lower-level friends, and aquired my weapons. The packs were rewarding because they were a reward. So I know for a fact, you don't have any obligation to "grind", and if you feel you do, that is your own fault.

This "need" to grind or buy is your creation. Your attitude. Your perception. Your personal choice in how to approach the game. Don't rationalize or try to blame the game structure. Don't. It's pathetic. You made a decision, you made a choice, you did it. Nobody twisted your arm, nobody influenced you, nobody but you was involved in it.

If somebody decides to take a shortcut and then complains about their own goddam choice, there is no sympathy to be had. I could apply all this same, flimsy rationale to steroid use in sports. Nobody's going to feel bad for your shriveled testicles, and nobody's going to weep for somebody who bought their way through reward packs and doesn't like what they got.

A fool and his money were parted.

[Transairion]

You'd think you might be a tad more certain of what you're actually buying/paying for before actually making the decision to do it...

I mean, if there was a big ? box in the grocery store that had a random product in it, and you buy 20, it'll be your own damn fault is there's no bread or milk (which you wanted) inside.

The fact you spent that much on something you can get for FREE as well is just... no sympathy, sorry. Rushed waaaaaaay too quick into spending your moolah.

[mrcanada]

Kastrenzo wrote...

0 sympathy

Spending Real life money does not get you treated differently

To be fair, neither does playing the game.  I've opened well over 150+ spectre's and premium spectres and have only one N7 at level 2 and am still missing the Paladin.  It's completely garbage that the amount of time you put into playing the MP does not equal a better chance at the store.  I've encountered people who have only opened 20 spectre packs total that have a Black Widow V and a Javelin 3.  It's ridiculous.

[sydsyrious]

Sacrificial Bias wrote...

TheChosen0ne wrote...

Man you could have used up that $150 to feed 10 starving children in Africa

My personal opinion is that the general population of Africa should be castrated for their stupidity in having more kids when they can't feed them.

Wow.....just wow.  This statement actually made me want to throw up.  I'm sure all the women who lack access to birth control/facilities/food/choices would really appreciate that. 

[ABjerre]

You must be trolling. Either that, or you are severely retarded. Like "Creationists" -> "Downs' Syndrome" -> "Highlord Syndrome"-retarded.

Highlord Heian wrote...
So no, you didn't think about what you typed before you typed it, because you had to completely modify what you said. And it's still rubbish.

I didnt change anything.

Highlord Heian wrote...
Nothing is squeezing your throat "making" you grind. That is your perception. Nothing pressures you to have X weapons, especially considering most of the classes function perfectly fine without including their weapons. But you constantly allude to some ethereal "requirement" to grind that doesn't exist.

I never said that i felt forced in any way. I said that i didnt enjoy it, so it is naturally an aspect of the game i'd rather avoid. You are reading a lot into (and missing even more of) what people are writing.

Highlord Heian wrote...
I have my rare weapons capped out, and I've never had to buy packs, and I've never had to "grind". I lobby-hop, I get credits incrimentally, and I'd occaisonally spend them on packs and collect weapons. I didn't even have to stay in gold, I promoted and did some bronze and silver, played with some lower-level friends, and aquired my weapons. The packs were rewarding because they were a reward. So I know for a fact, you don't have any obligation to "grind", and if you feel you do, that is your own fault.

Riveting tale, chap. By the looks of it, you have plenty of time to play games - lifes pretty good in moms basement.

Highlord Heian wrote...
This "need" to grind or buy is your creation. Your attitude. Your perception. Your personal choice in how to approach the game. Don't rationalize or try to blame the game structure. Don't. It's pathetic. You made a decision, you made a choice, you did it. Nobody twisted your arm, nobody influenced you, nobody but you was involved in it.

I never mentioned that i have said need, nor that it is a requirement for me. That would be your creation. I would like to see the full potential of my characters yes, but thats pretty far from the picture that you are painting.

Please stop commenting on my posts, as you clearly are unable to understand what i write, let alone my point of view.

My previous point still stands: That you, based upon what you are posting and what it displays about your way reasoning, will never be able to understand any reasons for doing something, besides your own.

Modifié par ABjerre, 24 avril 2012 - 03:45 .

[Jerrod89]

Yeah.....the game is kinda broken with the packs......I've sent a little real money but mainly in game credits and dont have ALL the characters but have gotten like 10 gold cards for my Krogen Solider when he is already fully upgraded

[Dr-Rai1]

Descy_ wrote...

And how much money have you spent on discs that show you pixels? I mean, that's all a game is. just pixels, right? Who cares about entertainment, cause games are just pixels.

Those games have longevity, the discs will be with me till i decide otherwise, online gameplay items will not. You're argument is invalid, those discs I bought, I knew exactly what I was getting from them, to compare it to a random lottery pack is a huge fallacy I don't even care to go into.

Bottom line is it's all about investment, there are those satisfied with short term pleasures and those who strive for things that will be around for the long run. I am the latter, suffice to say it's worked out pretty well so far, successful relationship, career and life and I still have time to play games *shrug*

Modifié par Dr-Rai1, 24 avril 2012 - 04:35 .

[Merchant2006]

Kastrenzo wrote...

0 sympathy

Spending Real life money does not get you treated differently

[Resante]

Time = money, why is it so hard for some people to see that? Maybe the guy who spent $150 doesn't have all day to spend playing video games like some of you, and wanted to see if he could get some cool stuff. To each his own. Personally I think if BW wants us to spend real money we should be able to choose which weapons / characters we're buying, but whatever.

Modifié par Resante, 24 avril 2012 - 04:48 .