249 réponses à ce sujet

[Peranor]

Where did the OP go? Did he pull a Joker and bravely ran away?

Oh and btw, Destroy is the only truth!

[ArchDuck]

anorling wrote...

Where did the OP go? Did he pull a Joker and bravely ran away?

Yeah, back on page 6 was the last sighting.

[Cgrissom]

Steelgrave wrote...

Helm505 wrote...

Only if you believe that conflict between Organics and Synthetics is inevitable. And the only reason you have to believe that is the Catalyst told you it was.

And the fact that it happens over & over again in every cycle throughout time.  Javik's cycle had the same problem. And the one before that, and the onebefore that..  You have to be completely out of touch with reality to believe it won't happen again. An optimistic daydreamer that believes in fairytales & happy endings. In other words, a complete IDIOT!

Read this far and lost any and all respect for OP.

[leapingmonkeys]

Have to disagree. None of the "solutions" that vent-boy proposes resolve the original premise.

Control - this option completely destroys you (as per vent-boy's information). So you cannot "control" anything since you no longer exist. It somehow makes the Reapers fly away (no idea how since you no longer exist) but certainly have done nothing to prevent the creation of more synthetic life forms.

Synthesis - again, there is nothing that stops the newly created species from creating new synthetic species - again, it does not resolve the original premise.

So none of the "solutions" actually resolve the premise, and all of them involve gratuitous space magic.

[flexxdk]

I am deeply sorry for not understanding the true purpose of the Mass Effect games. I'm terribly ashamed of myself for not having figured out that the actual story was about the conflict between organics and synthetics. As a result, I will retreat from the forums, sell all my possessions, move to the mountains, become a hermit and live in shame until I die.

I will also take your feedback into account. I still believe in my artistic integrity though, and do not believe anything should be changed about my post since it will compromise my beautiful piece of art. But I'll listen anyway.

P.S.:
Thanks for calling me an idiot. Yes, I love you too.

[aj2070]

The stated purpose of the reapers in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 was to cull/ harvest/ control (in Mass Effect 1 anyway) intelligent organic life. Sovereign stated that organics would be allowed to develop to the point where they could use the mass relays then they would be wiped out. Liara also mentions civilizations before the protheans. The reapers were never an anti-AI tool.

Anything said about how Shepard could control the reapers is pure speculation based on information not presented (not a slam against the OP but still the case).

[lordofdogtown19]

Well OP, even though your not here anymore, you can go ahead believe the kid. Just so you know he lied though cause I can live even though he said I wouldn't.

Also there was that thing where I made peace with the geth and quarians, so it's proven synthetics and organics can coexist peacefully. But what do I know?

Modifié par lordofdogtown19, 24 avril 2012 - 07:43 .

[ElSuperGecko]

LOL @ all the assumptions in the OP's post.

It's all guesswork. All hypothesising. And all fundamentally flawed observations based on the Catalyst's own self-serving arguments. And do you trust the Catalyst, a being that's ultimately directly responsible for the deaths of billions of innocent lives, the extinction of entire civilisations and the very mess the galaxy is in to start with?

If you do, then more fool you.

You cannot concern yourself about what may or may not happen in the distant reached of the far future. That's up to galactic civilisation to determine, from the decisions it makes.

All you can concern yourself with is the present, and doing what you set out to do - save your friends, your allies, your loved ones and all the individual races of the galaxy who are giving their lives for you.

And the only way to secure their future, to save them, as they are, is to choose "Destroy", and end the Reaper threat once and for all. Do that, and the galaxy is free to choose it's own fate, it's own destiny, for the first time since the cycle of extinction began. It's amazing how many players don't get it.

[Fearloc]

It makes no difference what color of explosion you have, all mass relays explode, destroying all life.

[Ice Cold J]

Cause, you know, the Geth are impossible to defeat, like we did in ME1 and potentially in ME3...

[sammysoso]

We only have Starkid's word on that, what reason do we have to believe the person who created the Reapers?

I refuse to believe in the notion that synthetic life will ALWAYS kill organic life, look at the Geth, look at EDI. I call BS

[IUDEX99]

The discussion about synthesis just brought me new topic I was thinking about....

All organic and synthetic life will be restructured, "mixed together" and now have one common DNA.

Okay, so far, but what about machines?
Machines are no synthetical lifeform so it applies to them that they are not "synthezized".
If you build a computer it would obviously the same. But when you improve the computer into an VI and further into an AI, what happens then?
It is still a machine and then suddenly space magic hits, it makes "poof" and the former computer which is an AI now has an DNA?

Or, to ask the question in a different way:
The apex of evolution is building AIs, those AIs intend to kill the "synthezizedes" and so someone (Catayst²) is creating synthetics that kill the "synthezizedes" so that the synthetics cannot kill the "synthezizedes".

Okay, there might be a problem with my spelling, I'm tired and not a natural speaker so I don't get the "Synthezizedes"-thing. But I am sure, you know what I mean.

[KDD-0063]

IUDEX99 wrote...

The discussion about synthesis just brought me new topic I was thinking about....

All organic and synthetic life will be restructured, "mixed together" and now have one common DNA.

Okay, so far, but what about machines?
Machines are no synthetical lifeform so it applies to them that they are not "synthezized".
If you build a computer it would obviously the same. But when you improve the computer into an VI and further into an AI, what happens then?
It is still a machine and then suddenly space magic hits, it makes "poof" and the former computer which is an AI now has an DNA?

Or, to ask the question in a different way:
The apex of evolution is building AIs, those AIs intend to kill the "synthezizedes" and so someone (Catayst²) is creating synthetics that kill the "synthezizedes" so that the synthetics cannot kill the "synthezizedes".

Okay, there might be a problem with my spelling, I'm tired and not a natural speaker so I don't get the "Synthezizedes"-thing. But I am sure, you know what I mean.

Well, forget about space magic.

Talking about synthesis's outcome. Two possibilities:
a) Free will still exists. Everyone just becomes a cyborg. Which means it doesn't solve the problem; what's to stop them from creating new pure synthetics? A better question, what's to stop them from killing each other off?
Free will ceases to exist. Then it's just the most evil option.

[Sgt.Catman]

I picked destroy because it shuts starkid up for good. That and red is my favorite color.

[Xeranx]

wright1978 wrote...

Should i believe a word that comes out of the mouth of an insane genocidal maniac? No thanks, listening to crazy people is silly. That's why we lock lunatics up rather than making them head of state.

Are you sure about that?  Sometimes I think the crazies will be better at political jobs than the politicians themselves.  

[KDBANKS]

ArchDuck wrote...

anorling wrote...

Where did the OP go? Did he pull a Joker and bravely ran away?

Yeah, back on page 6 was the last sighting.

I don't agree with him, at all, but isn't it possible he had something else to do?

[Superstarsage]

Uh so, someone WAYYYY back there brought up resources are finite.

I agree. But uh, Destroy actually helps us out there. Check it.

Every time reapers do their 50k universe tour, they take TONS OF RESOURCES to make a NEW REAPER, sometimes more than ONE (presumed, not supported by evidence). (the more than one thing anyways). So uh, the reapers are slowly bleeding the universe dry. GG.

Also, by destroying all synthetics, you are indeed doing the mass genocide, but hey new synthetics will be made, and what's more; we (the galactic community) could probably use the dead reaper corpses as materials (and if possible) tech to work towards re-producing the previously destroyed mass relays.

Note: this last paragraph is speculation. Key point is simple. Choose destroy? Reapers no longer bleeding universe dry of resources. Also opens up future in terms of evolution. Having a 50k World tour is really detrimental when it's not so much music and more dubstep (lol).

[ThinkIntegral]

KDD-0063 wrote...
Well, forget about space magic.

Talking about synthesis's outcome. Two possibilities:
a) Free will still exists. Everyone just becomes a cyborg. Which means it doesn't solve the problem; what's to stop them from creating new pure synthetics? A better question, what's to stop them from killing each other off?
Free will ceases to exist. Then it's just the most evil option.

The problem was the conflict between organics and synthetics. Two life forms that are so different in creation that the only way to truly understand the other is to experience things as the other does.  It's the same with people. If you've never eaten chocolate ever at all in your life and I try to tell you what it tastes like till I was blue in the face you still wouldn't know until you actually tasted it for yourself. 

It's similar to when EDI experienced the vista on Sur'Kesh.  She's got as close as a synthetic could get, but could she still understand pleasure the way Joker does? She said she has no material wants or desires.  Would she understand lust the way Joker does?

So yeah it'll stop the problem.  Will it stop them from creating new pure synthetics no but at that point it's hard to say they even would because synthetic and organic life has been so integrated.

Free will still exists because each life still can dictate the purpose for its life.

[LKx]

Steelgrave wrote...

 If you choose the "destroy" ending synthetic life like the Geth will rise up again in the future & destroy all organic life. The Reaprs were created to prevent that from happening. If you choose "destroy" you're not just destroying the Reapers, you're destroying all organic life in the future.  You're killing your grandchildren & great grandchildren. Erasing their future.  The Catalyst even tells you this right out.  It's amazing how many players just don't get it.

If you choose "control" Shepard can bring the Reapers in to keep the synthetics under "control'. When they rise up agsint their creators Shepard can stop them.

If you choose "synthesis" there won't be any conflict between organics & synthetics anymore. The Reapers & the whole Mass Effect series is about the conflict between organcs & synthetics. If you combine the 2 you remove the conflict. No need for the Reapers or the cycle anymore. You achieve universal peace. 

Oh, of course, because the Catalyst sounds a lot trustworthy and its logic is foolproof.

[ThinkIntegral]

LKx wrote...

Steelgrave wrote...

 If you choose the "destroy" ending synthetic life like the Geth will rise up again in the future & destroy all organic life. The Reaprs were created to prevent that from happening. If you choose "destroy" you're not just destroying the Reapers, you're destroying all organic life in the future.  You're killing your grandchildren & great grandchildren. Erasing their future.  The Catalyst even tells you this right out.  It's amazing how many players just don't get it.

If you choose "control" Shepard can bring the Reapers in to keep the synthetics under "control'. When they rise up agsint their creators Shepard can stop them.

If you choose "synthesis" there won't be any conflict between organics & synthetics anymore. The Reapers & the whole Mass Effect series is about the conflict between organcs & synthetics. If you combine the 2 you remove the conflict. No need for the Reapers or the cycle anymore. You achieve universal peace. 

Oh, of course, because the Catalyst sounds a lot trustworthy and its logic is foolproof.

Doesn't mean his point is wrong.  All depends on what you presuppose as the truth based on everything leading to that point.

[Breakdown Boy]

Let's say the Turians/ Asari/ Salarians/ Krogan/ Humans live on for a long time, there apposing military power stops each other from trying something stupid (like genocide), also the same thing if an AI race would be created and rebelled. If the Citadel races could destroy the reapers they sure as hell could kill any upstart synthetic race before it tried to the same to organics.

Genocide only happens when a wastly more powerfull group (eg. **** Germany Army) moves with a clear purpose to wpie out a vastly inferior or more powerless group (eg. unarmed Jewish people).

Why was Germany stopped, more powerfull groups where present and acted accordingly.

Same situation in the galaxy after Reaper threat, too many strong organic groups to appose possible synthetic threat, especially with Krogan genophage cured.

[tvman099]

I have no reason to believe a single thing the Catalyst says. It's the leader of the Reapers and is responsible for hundreds of trillions of murders and many thousands of genocides, and it justifies its "solution" by claiming inevitability of an even that has obviously never happened and for all we know will never happen.

It can take its logic and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Modifié par tvman099, 25 avril 2012 - 06:01 .

[tvman099]

Steelgrave wrote...

Helm505 wrote...

Only if you believe that conflict between Organics and Synthetics is inevitable. And the only reason you have to believe that is the Catalyst told you it was.

And the fact that it happens over & over again in every cycle throughout time.  Javik's cycle had the same problem. And the one before that, and the onebefore that..  You have to be completely out of touch with reality to believe it won't happen again. An optimistic daydreamer that believes in fairytales & happy endings. In other words, a complete IDIOT!

Humans have been fighting and killing each since the beginning of our existence, and there's no evidence to suggest that we'll stop. Should we all kill ourselves to prevent more violence?

Conflict is a part of life. Welcome to the real world.