649 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

But do you actually have to show the sex and skin to get the idea they're making love? A film cliché for instance is to show two characters in bed, covered with blankets, and clothes strewn around the room to show they were hastily taken off. If this shot comes up in the beginning, you know there's been sex but you don't really know the tone of the sex and that will have to be shown later through other means. But if the shot comes after, say, some sweet words, a kiss and a fade to black... then yeah I don't see what you've been missing aside from some graphic display of sex.

Of course, I'm the person who loves old adventure anime over the newer ones because I find the still images they use to portray combat instead of the fluid and detailed animation of today better convey the feelings of the scene instead of focusing on the details of sword swinging, so what do I know? =)

If they are not comfortable depicting sex then it should be avoided. There are plenty of ways to deepen the characters relationships that do not involve sex.
In Harvest Moon you date, you marry, you even have kids so sex must be in there somewhere. But you don't need to see it to watch the characters relationship evolve.

[ReallyRue]

I liked the romance in DA2. It wasn't perfect, but I don't think it crashed and burned or whatever. Nor do I think DAO romances should be held up as an example of a wonderfully done romance. Companion's interest rating going from 50% to 100% not far out of Lothering because you've plied them with gifts and dialogue? Uncanny sex in granny pants? Characters with completely opposing viewpoints apparently madly in love with your character, just because you've dumped a load of gifts on them?

I did like the fact that in the case of Alistair's romance, it could end up in different places. You could continue as Wardens together, get dumped when he becomes king, become his mistress (with or without Anora as queen), or even marry him if a female human noble.

I also really liked the idea of DA2's friendship/rivalry romances, and I'd like that to make a return, with a bit more fine-tuning.

I could care less about the actual sex in the sex scenes and whether we see them wearing nothing but their skin, or a fade-to-black while still clothed. I liked Liara's ME3 and the ME1 scenes, but I'm personally not bothered, so long as we don't go back to the cringe-inducing DAO sex scenes. I do think it's silly when it's over and the LI is suddenly kit out in full robes/armour, etc. I mostly like the talking. LI turned up at the Hawke mansion and chatted to Hawke, they had sex, and then more talking.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

David Gaider wrote...

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...
As for more skin showing in romance scenes, I'd rather not. It doesn't really bother me, but it isn't something I enjoy watching. I like scenes that are more focused on the emotional aspect of romance rather than the physical. It's enough for me to know that these characters I created got some action in the span of ten years. I don't need to see it happen.

Neither do I. I get that some people think we should show nudity in our sex scenes, or have multiple sex scenes... but the reason we shy away from that isn't because of ratings/censorship but because we're not keen on it. Often it just feels gratuitous (and someone can say whatever they like about the Witcher scenes, they were definitely gratuitous -- and that's not a reflection on the quality of the game itself, just the truth), particularly when used as the culmination of a romance... as if sex was the point of romance?

Some people might enjoy the "jackpot!" moment, I guess... but personally I'd rather get away from sex scenes completely instead of focusing on them even more heavily.

My favorite romance scenes have always been those that don't show the sex at all, so I'm a fan of this idea.

shootist70 wrote...

I think we're totally missing the point here. It isn't about the conventions of any particular genre, but just about good ol' fashioned adult entertainment, and what works for an audience by tapping in on universal themes to hit catharsis. Sex scenes go hand in hand with adult entertainment, whether it's a western movie, a historical fiction epic, or an action film.

There's a good reason for that - if the work in question isn't a full blown romantic fiction then there's a good chance that any romance within it won't be able to build up to a satisfying level of catharsis for the audience. An act of 'union' '(as it were) is a nice little shortcut to that that grants the necessary, um...release.

Without it a romantic element in non-romantic genre work tends to come off as somewhat unsatisfying and unfinished, as there's not really room for full treatment of the romantic development of the relationship.

Trying to get this sort of emotional response from the player can be a hit-or-miss. Some people like it, some people consider them unintentionally hilarious, some people want to see more... and then there are people like me who just find them awkward to watch. More often than not, I end up diverting my attention away from the screen to some conveniently-placed Mass Effect lithos above the TV.

I don't play the romances to get this kind of feeling from them. I play them when the character I created (Hawke, Shepard, Warden, etc.) would feel that way. Does that make sense? Not sure if I've worded it well enough, but that's the basic idea. I'm not interested in seeing the love interests the same way a character I'm playing might want to see them. So I prefer scenes that don't focus on the physical aspect of their romance, or fade to black.

[AkiKishi]

ReallyRue wrote...

I liked the romance in DA2. It wasn't perfect, but I don't think it crashed and burned or whatever. Nor do I think DAO romances should be held up as an example of a wonderfully done romance. Companion's interest rating going from 50% to 100% not far out of Lothering because you've plied them with gifts and dialogue? Uncanny sex in granny pants? Characters with completely opposing viewpoints apparently madly in love with your character, just because you've dumped a load of gifts on them?

Tends to conform to my real life experience. Flattery and gifts work very well.

Granny panties and clothed sex,not so much.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 26 avril 2012 - 10:42 .

[Dutchess]

nightscrawl wrote...

katiebour wrote...

Fenris- how does Hawke go from that one night to having him back in party? Did they try to discuss it with him? Did he shut them down? I can't believe three years went by with absolutely no discussion of what passed between them.

This is honestly the single greatest issue I have with the Fenris romance. Not including a minor party banter in Legacy, the one and only reference to this is a line that Fenris says in his post-Alone Questioning Beliefs where he says "We've never talked about that night," and Hawke responds with "You didn't want to talk about it," giving me the impression that Hawke attempted at one time. But that's all. *sigh* Granted, it does go along with his character, but it's still frustrating XD.

Agreed. This was what I missed the most when Fenris left. No matter what personality you choose, Hawke is not shy. After the way Fenris runs off, I kept clicking on him, hoping to get something more out of him. Fenris snapping "I don't want to talk about it" when you try to approach him would be enough, but without even that it was very abrupt, and it didn't make much sense from Hawke's point of view.

[Mmw04014]

My hope is that they get away from the rivalry romances or, exclude them from characters they don't make sense for. It makes just as little sense for a psychopathic killer Warden to be able to romance Alistair by plying him with gifts then it does for a staunchly anti mage Hawke to be able to romance Anders. For every single one of the rivalry romances, I could not understand whyany of these characters would ever be in a relationship with my Hawke because it usually meant they were going against their own fundamental belief system. I didn't mind the rivalry paths when they weren't connected to romance, but once they were, the relationship become unbelievable.

The only time I could see a rivalmance work is between two characters who are truly in a rivalry. You could possibly have a companion who thinks they are the leader of the group and you are constantly arguing and trying to one up each other. I can see that kind of relationship leading to respect and romance despite not getting along.

Modifié par Mmw04014, 26 avril 2012 - 12:51 .

[Kidd]

I dunno, I throught Fenris' and Merrill's rivalmances were both superior to the friendmances. Certainly made a lot of sense. Well, aside from a Hawke who nets rival points with Fenris by being pro-slavers of course - pro-mage works fine though.

[Wulfram]

Personally, I generally see the exchange of "I love you"s - or the equivalent, not every romance needs to be that blunt - as the culmination of the romance.

I saw the DA:O gifts as an abstraction of the Warden generally showing care and attention to his companions wants. Which, together with the shared experience of fighting together, would naturally bring them closer despite disagreements that might exist.

[Dutchess]

I really enjoyed Fenris rivalry romance, and I think it fitted very well when you romance him with a mage Hawke. In that way you show him not all mages are bad, and I find it a nice thought he eventually falls in love with a mage, after everything that Danarius has done to him. The only part of the rivalry system here I did not like was that you are not punished when supporting slavers. I see how Fenris could learn to accept a (pro-)mage Hawke, but pro-slavery seems out of the question.

[Dakota Strider]

What is missing with the romances, is not more sex scenes. What is missing is the building of the romance in the first place. In DAO, it took a little bit of effort to develop a romance with the LI, and because the player had to wait longer, before the romance fully developed with both sides reciprocating, the romance felt more complete and meaningful.

I am not talking about time, as in game hours. What I mean, is the number of conversations/dialogues that take place before reaching the point where it feels that the player character and the LI has "bonded". It seemed that there were far more buildup in the DAO romances. While in DA2, it seemed like only a handful of dialogues that were flagged with the obvious "hearts". And those hearts only cheapened the experience, since it basically made you feel that any other dialogue relating to that character was meaningless, in regards to romance.

Also, I think a degree of difficulty needs to return. What I mean, is that it should not be automatic, at least not with every companion. Each companion is different, has different circumstances, and some have histories that will make them resist and reject some of the player charactor's advances. In the Baldur's Gate games, you had a wide variety of choices, all with "different degrees of difficulty." Aerie, the winged-elf that you rescued from slavery, may be the easiest, except if she saw your character as evil. Jaheira becomes widowed, and takes a long time to develop a romantic bond with her, because of her grief, and also because she considered herself to be your mentor, not an equal. Viconia, the drow cleric, has many issues to make this a difficult LI as well, but is also very rewarding, if you can win her over to your way of thinking, instead of the ways of her drow heritage.

All of these, are not simply hitting the right response in a handful of conversations. Your actions with how you react to other things, besides courting the LI, makes a difference in how they perceive you. There are multiple different occassions throughout the game, where you can "score" points for or against their feelings towards you. And your romance has consequences within quests, and will cause antagonists to try to use them against you.

All the different ways, a romance within the game, can be used, makes the experience that much stronger, and more meaningful. It should not just be something that takes place within the camp, or tavern, but should be one of the factors that motivates your character, throughout game play.

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 26 avril 2012 - 02:52 .

[FieryDove]

CommanderJessica wrote...

As long as there are romance scenes, I'd be happy!
Sex scenes, or lack of, wouldn't bother me.

I am in this camp. I would have much rather have had more interaction with romantic partners (No I do not like living statues in my house) than *One night must have scene*.

Although since it was already there...a shirtless Fenris/Anders would have been nice. Sniff

[AkiKishi]

I think DA2 was the worst of the lot. Not so much because of what it did. But what it did in the setting of the game. That goes beyond romances and into design in general.

Was Hawke firing blanks/barren ?

Games which take place in a fixed setting over a long period require different things to games that are "on the move" and take place over a short period.

[wsandista]

Dakota Strider wrote...

What is missing with the romances, is not more sex scenes. What is missing is the building of the romance in the first place. In DAO, it took a little bit of effort to develop a romance with the LI, and because the player had to wait longer, before the romance fully developed with both sides reciprocating, the romance felt more complete and meaningful.

I am not talking about time, as in game hours. What I mean, is the number of conversations/dialogues that take place before reaching the point where it feels that the player character and the LI has "bonded". It seemed that there were far more buildup in the DAO romances. While in DA2, it seemed like only a handful of dialogues that were flagged with the obvious "hearts". And those hearts only cheapened the experience, since it basically made you feel that any other dialogue relating to that character was meaningless, in regards to romance.

Also, I think a degree of difficulty needs to return. What I mean, is that it should not be automatic, at least not with every companion. Each companion is different, has different circumstances, and some have histories that will make them resist and reject some of the player charactor's advances. In the Baldur's Gate games, you had a wide variety of choices, all with "different degrees of difficulty." Aerie, the winged-elf that you rescued from slavery, may be the easiest, except if she saw your character as evil. Jaheira becomes widowed, and takes a long time to develop a romantic bond with her, because of her grief, and also because she considered herself to be your mentor, not an equal. Viconia, the drow cleric, has many issues to make this a difficult LI as well, but is also very rewarding, if you can win her over to your way of thinking, instead of the ways of her drow heritage.

All of these, are not simply hitting the right response in a handful of conversations. Your actions with how you react to other things, besides courting the LI, makes a difference in how they perceive you. There are multiple different occassions throughout the game, where you can "score" points for or against their feelings towards you. And your romance has consequences within quests, and will cause antagonists to try to use them against you.

All the different ways, a romance within the game, can be used, makes the experience that much stronger, and more meaningful. It should not just be something that takes place within the camp, or tavern, but should be one of the factors that motivates your character, throughout game play.

Can't disagree with this at all. I really disliked how in DA2 labled all the flirt options(and every other conversation option as well) and how you could romance Anders even if you were a sociopathic anti-mage Templar supporter. I want Romance options not Sexmance options with the LI's, I want to have the Protagonist to deeply care about them, not just pick the "flirt" option to have sex.

Oh and please DO NOT look to the Witcher for inspiation for romance options. While I really like the Witcher, I don't feel that Geralt is actually in love with any of the many women he sleeps with, instead it just seems he is just using them for pleasure. While that may work with Geralt my main Warden and main Hawke were considerably different and wanted someone to love, not just have sex with. BG is a much better place to look.

[Cantina]

esper wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Cantina wrote...

I would like to know why is it if I choose to side with the mages and save Anders life, then choose to run away with him my character does not get that last “I love you” and a kiss? I felt like I was being punished and I chose the wrong side.

 

I suppose that's just how the scene plays out. Not all romances should do the same things at the same time, that's a good thing. And well, "Ten years, a hundred years from now, someone like me will love someone like you, and there will be no templars to tear them apart" is definitely one of my favourite lines ever. Oh the tears the first time I heard that line... I'd never trade that for a simple "I love you," myself =) Though of course, they're by no means exclusive.

It is also important to point out that Anders say 'I love you' times before that. He says it after the sex in act 2 and on friendship path he says it on his final question belief 'pillow talk'. There is no need to say it on friendship path in the Gallows pre-final fight talk, because that is not the issue. And I too would not trade Anders' final speech for something as simple as a kiss.

On rivalry path he doesn't say I 'love you' in question believe, but he does say it pre-final fight. I think it is a nice contrast.

And is characther is individuel so they shouldn't follow the same pattern.

Having contrast is nice and I understand the rivalry and friendship romances are different. Be rather silly if they were the same all around.

On the friendship path, Anders apologizes to Hawke for the events to come and believes he is going to die for his actions. Yes, he says he loves you (twice if you chose the right dialogue options), but for someone who thinks he is going to die, I would at least thought he want a kiss. That last moment of feelings expressed through physical contact.

However, aside from not getting a kiss in that scene, the fact is Anders believes this is the last time he will ever be able to express those feelings. In my case and the case of some other players, this is not true.

As far as I am aware if you rival Anders and chose the mage side, the ending stays the same. Were as if you side with Templars you have a different ending, the kiss etc.

Again, Anders expressed his feelings earlier simply because he assumed that was his final chance to do so. IF you chose to side with the Templars instead of mages, how then would he have known that you were going to spare his life and he have the opportunity to say and express his feelings? Contrast is nice to have, when it makes sense.


The final dialogues between Anders and Hawke could have been the same but different at the same time too. You do not need to remove the dialogue in order for it to happen.


This is a sample I wrote months back:


Hawke: Then we will be fugitives together

Anders: I should have seen it sooner. All you did for me,
for the mages. I never thought in my life that I would find someone who believes
as much as I do in this cause.

<Kiss>

<Pulls away and looks into Hawke’s eyes>

Anders: We will fight for a world, were are children can be
born mages and free. Ten years, hundred years from now, someone like me, will
love someone like you and there will be no Templars to tear them apart.

Anders: I love you
and always will. Please be careful for if you die tonight I will too.

May the Maker bring us victory or everything
else is meaningless.



If you chose to spare his life and stay with him, the conversation should come off with emotion and feeling. I just felt that not only saving his life but also staying with him, the conversation came off as wooden and shallow.

At any rate the dialogue should be different depending on the path you took, however just because you took a different path does not mean one side should get a kiss and the other should not, especially when the last conversation takes place.

Modifié par Cantina, 26 avril 2012 - 03:21 .

[brushyourteeth]

Dakota Strider wrote...

What is missing with the romances, is not more sex scenes. What is missing is the building of the romance in the first place. In DAO, it took a little bit of effort to develop a romance with the LI, and because the player had to wait longer, before the romance fully developed with both sides reciprocating, the romance felt more complete and meaningful.

I am not talking about time, as in game hours. What I mean, is the number of conversations/dialogues that take place before reaching the point where it feels that the player character and the LI has "bonded". It seemed that there were far more buildup in the DAO romances. While in DA2, it seemed like only a handful of dialogues that were flagged with the obvious "hearts". And those hearts only cheapened the experience, since it basically made you feel that any other dialogue relating to that character was meaningless, in regards to romance.

Also, I think a degree of difficulty needs to return. What I mean, is that it should not be automatic, at least not with every companion. Each companion is different, has different circumstances, and some have histories that will make them resist and reject some of the player charactor's advances. In the Baldur's Gate games, you had a wide variety of choices, all with "different degrees of difficulty." Aerie, the winged-elf that you rescued from slavery, may be the easiest, except if she saw your character as evil. Jaheira becomes widowed, and takes a long time to develop a romantic bond with her, because of her grief, and also because she considered herself to be your mentor, not an equal. Viconia, the drow cleric, has many issues to make this a difficult LI as well, but is also very rewarding, if you can win her over to your way of thinking, instead of the ways of her drow heritage.

All of these, are not simply hitting the right response in a handful of conversations. Your actions with how you react to other things, besides courting the LI, makes a difference in how they perceive you. There are multiple different occassions throughout the game, where you can "score" points for or against their feelings towards you. And your romance has consequences within quests, and will cause antagonists to try to use them against you.

All the different ways, a romance within the game, can be used, makes the experience that much stronger, and more meaningful. It should not just be something that takes place within the camp, or tavern, but should be one of the factors that motivates your character, throughout game play.

Couldn't have said it better!

[FaeQueenCory]

At first I was like: "Oh a thread about how the romances in DA2 were really minimal in interactions (pretty much only the sexin scene)."

Finds that the thread seems to be about the sexin scenes................


I, for one, would like for the romances to be a little more fleshed out. Like a couple of people have mentioned in their posts, the DA2 romances kinda fell apart during "act 3"... It would have been nice to have a little more to them in the final 4th of the game.

[Cantina]

FaeQueenCory wrote...

At first I was like: "Oh a thread about how the romances in DA2 were really minimal in interactions (pretty much only the sexin scene)."

Finds that the thread seems to be about the sexin scenes................


I, for one, would like for the romances to be a little more fleshed out. Like a couple of people have mentioned in their posts, the DA2 romances kinda fell apart during "act 3"... It would have been nice to have a little more to them in the final 4th of the game.

Its not all about the sex scenes hun, that was not my point of this thread. My point was to show the flaws and how the romance did not seem as smoothed out threw the game as it did in Origins. I brought up the sex scene simply because it is apart of the romance.

Exactly how I feel, I thought by Act 3 the romance seemed to fall off the face of the game.

Modifié par Cantina, 26 avril 2012 - 04:00 .

[BubbleDncr]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Dakota Strider wrote...

What is missing with the romances, is not more sex scenes. What is missing is the building of the romance in the first place. In DAO, it took a little bit of effort to develop a romance with the LI, and because the player had to wait longer, before the romance fully developed with both sides reciprocating, the romance felt more complete and meaningful.

I am not talking about time, as in game hours. What I mean, is the number of conversations/dialogues that take place before reaching the point where it feels that the player character and the LI has "bonded". It seemed that there were far more buildup in the DAO romances. While in DA2, it seemed like only a handful of dialogues that were flagged with the obvious "hearts". And those hearts only cheapened the experience, since it basically made you feel that any other dialogue relating to that character was meaningless, in regards to romance.

Also, I think a degree of difficulty needs to return. What I mean, is that it should not be automatic, at least not with every companion. Each companion is different, has different circumstances, and some have histories that will make them resist and reject some of the player charactor's advances. In the Baldur's Gate games, you had a wide variety of choices, all with "different degrees of difficulty." Aerie, the winged-elf that you rescued from slavery, may be the easiest, except if she saw your character as evil. Jaheira becomes widowed, and takes a long time to develop a romantic bond with her, because of her grief, and also because she considered herself to be your mentor, not an equal. Viconia, the drow cleric, has many issues to make this a difficult LI as well, but is also very rewarding, if you can win her over to your way of thinking, instead of the ways of her drow heritage.

All of these, are not simply hitting the right response in a handful of conversations. Your actions with how you react to other things, besides courting the LI, makes a difference in how they perceive you. There are multiple different occassions throughout the game, where you can "score" points for or against their feelings towards you. And your romance has consequences within quests, and will cause antagonists to try to use them against you.

All the different ways, a romance within the game, can be used, makes the experience that much stronger, and more meaningful. It should not just be something that takes place within the camp, or tavern, but should be one of the factors that motivates your character, throughout game play.

Couldn't have said it better!

I agree.

In Origins, my Dalish elf like dAlistair, and wanted to romance him. Sadly, she didn't always meet his moral standards - there was this thing that happened earlier on where she let a woman who hated Alistair be killed in order to save her son from a demon...that REALLY pissed Alistair off.

So what happened? Well, my Warden started to change. She always asked herself, "What would Alistair do?" It made her a better person - he was the reason she wasn't a total jerk to all the humans she met. He was the reason she tried to do good deeds instead of selfish ones - the reason she didn't defile the ashes of some crazy dead woman.

Because of that huge hit to my affection at the beginning of the game, I had to work my ass off to win Alistair back in time for the Landsmeet. Made the conscious choice to ignore raising the affection of my other companions so I could give more gifts to Alistair - which, I didn't realise until later playthroughs, was a sizeable sacrifice on my part. I missed out on some really nice friendships and companion quests with the rest of my party. But all that effort and sacrifice made finally romancing Alistair very satisying with a much bigger feeling of accomplishment than any of the DA2 romances - which, you can pretty much do without even trying.

Just, don't make the suceess of a relationship be based off of one line of dialog (hardenning Alistair). But it would be nice to have to work for it.

[BBK4114]

seraphymon wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
Neither do I. I get that some people think we should show nudity in our sex scenes, or have multiple sex scenes... but the reason we shy away from that isn't because of ratings/censorship but because we're not keen on it. Often it just feels gratuitous (and someone can say whatever they like about the Witcher scenes, they were definitely gratuitous -- and that's not a reflection on the quality of the game itself, just the truth), particularly when used as the culmination of a romance... as if sex was the point of romance?

Some people might enjoy the "jackpot!" moment, I guess... but personally I'd rather get away from sex scenes completely instead of focusing on them even more heavily.

its all about how you present it when it comes to nudity, thats the whole point we are trying to make. In DAO, it looked silly in the granny panties, especially when characters for example like Morrigan, in her braless dress, can go from that to wearing a granny bra during the romance. When you censor something like that, then it just looks silly. However I will take that over what you did in DA2. Like anything else, if your not gonna do things right and put forth enough effort, its a waste to do it at all. Its like with anything else, the hands on females, the weird way of stting on a chair with a staff on your back, the fading to black. What happened to your show, dont tell philosphy?
Doing fade to black on that can make the possibly of doing fade to black on other aspects, or other scenarios, like in battle, or visiting a shop, or in mid conversation.
Part of a romance, especially one that is supposed to last 7 years, invovles things like intimacy, you cant just shy away from it because you feel akward about it. Things like this and other even smaller stuff does indeed matter.

This! Especially when BW is shoving Isabella's tatas or Miranda's butt in my face all the time.

Say what you want about TW2's elven bath scene, it may be gratuitous but at least it's not just sexualization of women.

On top of that TW2's scene was creatively done - from Triss's magical undressing to Geralt hopping on one foot trying to yank his boot off - and beautifully animated. 

Modifié par BBK4114, 26 avril 2012 - 06:01 .

[Cedryn]

Honestly, I think TW2 has lots of sex but no romance. Triss disappears for a big portion of the game so Geralt can have sex with every willing creature. And don’t get me wrong I love this game and I think they created amazing characters but their approach to “romance “ is really pandering to a certain male audience. I vastly prefer DA2 .

[Miquel93]

David Gaider wrote...

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...
As for more skin showing in romance scenes, I'd rather not. It doesn't really bother me, but it isn't something I enjoy watching. I like scenes that are more focused on the emotional aspect of romance rather than the physical. It's enough for me to know that these characters I created got some action in the span of ten years. I don't need to see it happen.

Neither do I. I get that some people think we should show nudity in our sex scenes, or have multiple sex scenes... but the reason we shy away from that isn't because of ratings/censorship but because we're not keen on it. Often it just feels gratuitous (and someone can say whatever they like about the Witcher scenes, they were definitely gratuitous -- and that's not a reflection on the quality of the game itself, just the truth), particularly when used as the culmination of a romance... as if sex was the point of romance?

Some people might enjoy the "jackpot!" moment, I guess... but personally I'd rather get away from sex scenes completely instead of focusing on them even more heavily.

Like the exploding bodies with tones of blood in DA2?

If the game show gratuitous violence, why not gratuitous sex? At least the sex wouldn't be cartoonish and childish.
If the story is mature, there's no middle grown. The DAO scenes, for example, were lame. If you do it, then do it with all the consequences, or don't do it at all.

It's a little hard for me to make my point, because of the language, but what I try to say is if you go for a grown up audience, and you treat romances, and sex is involved, then nudity  or the actual sexual act is required. If not, gives the impression of being childish. Not because I want ******, but because I have a game that deals with a lot of controversial issues (like racism), and deals with violence without fear (hell, people exploding in DA2), but when it comes to sex, and show some... well, sex, the game simply fades to black or shows some lame scenes with people dressed. It's like the sex is more difficult to deal with, and it shouldn't.

[the_one_54321]

You know, he might not have a say in terms of how much blood is spewed or what happens to dead/dying body models.

[brushyourteeth]

I really didn't even want to have sex with any of my LI's in DAII. I just felt like the relationship wasn't *there* yet. And if you didn't agree to sleep with them? - relationship over.

I'd like the option to say "no" or "not yet" back.