649 réponses à ce sujet

[Dakota Strider]

Nighteye2 wrote...

Just one more question on that: what's wrong with following Hollywood's lead in depicting sex scenes? Especially considering the trend towards a more cinematic approach...:innocent:

Uggh.... the less a game is like Hollywood the better.  Including cinematics.  While there is still an occassionally well done movie, it is not that great of a standard to shoot for.  And some of the best movies, with some of the best love stories, show next to no skin at all.  The Lord of the Rings Trilogy comes to mind, with the love of Aragorn and Arwen, and you could include Eowyn, as a "love-triangle."    Now if that was the standard you wish DA3 to attempt to follow, then I am all for it. 

[RosaAquafire]

I'm going to bring up the subjective sexuality thing being talked about the in G&S thread to keep things where they should be:

I agree that Fenris and Merrill's sexualities were fine as they were. You can interpret them as gay, straight, or bi depending on your playthrough and your preferences for their characters, and it doesn't make a difference, because it doesn't change anything about them. Isabela is, of course, bisexual no matter what you do, which is also very suited for her.

The problem here is Anders. Saying his sexuality doesn't matter is not true, because of Karl. I REALLY, REALLY would have liked to have discussed his first love with him as a female Hawke, and to me, the nature of his relationship with Karl makes a huge difference. His slow descent into madness makes a lot more sense to me if he'd lost his first love than if they were just friends, even good friends.

Basically, I am TOTALLY fine with Fenris and Merrill's subjective sexualities because no matter how you code those two characters, it doesn't make any difference at all. But in situations like Anders, where the sexuality makes a huuuuuge difference in how you interpret the character and actually affects in-game events, I think their sexuality can't be subjective.

My two cents, going forward.

[Pasquale1234]

I find it odd that people continue to refer to LIs as bisexual, because I don't remember a single one of them ever labeling themselves as such.

Not to mention that the very concept of sexual orientation might not even exist in Thedas.  We've certainly seen no indication that it does.

Curlain wrote...

I just don't understand people saying how they hated the gift system in DA:O because spamming gifts at companions made the relationships trivial, as if the game forced them do it, when such actions are purely optional and in the player's hands alone.  If it was making the game less enjoyable for them, why do they keep doing it?

I feel the same way about dialogs, and those who complain that they blew through all of the available conversations ASAP.  So, in DA2 simple conversations with followers are metered, and Hawke gets some new convo at the beginning of each act, presented as a quest to catch up with them 3 years later.

[MrsMime]

dracuella wrote...

MrsMime wrote...

Also, I thought you could get more of a feeling for the character's interest in you as well; when talking to them, whether at camp or out and about, their speech was often peppered with remarks that revealed their intentions. I also would have liked to see in DA2 something like what happened with Alistair, where he gives you the rose..in DA2, you just give the other characters gifts. They're like "thanks", you get to flirt, and that's it. Didn't feel very reciprocal. It would have been nice to see some gestures from Hawke's love interests.

This. I completely agree with this. One of my fondest memories from DAO is -still- my Alistair romance where he gives me the rose. Not becoming queen, not slaying an archdemon and ending a blight while being revered by an entire nation. No, it's that silly rose. It's so sweet and he's so damn awkward and.. *sigh*. I would have loved for my LIs to do something completely in character to show their affection to your PC: Like Isabella bringing over, oh I don't know, a dress, a suit for you telling you how smashing you'd look in it? Or Fenris bringing over a book of poems (totally stealing the idea of some fanfiction I've read here) as thanks for you teaching him how to read.. I don't know, I just like to get that heartpounding experience that was Alistair's rose or Zevran's earring.

Agreed. I'd like more cutscenes with LIs in general, but definitely, especially this.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Sutekh wrote...
I learned the hard way that having someone in your party isn't enough to reach those magical 50 R / F (Isabela, I'm looking at you).

Indeed. My average F/R with the companions is 5-20 except with Varric, Aveline and Bethany.  As you can see.. I'm in no man's land position with the companions. So nothing happens beside events surrounding Varric, Avelina and Bethany.

Isabela is even harder to get much points. She's missing a lot in ACT 2. I don't seem to have any problem with Bethany eventhough she was inactive after ACT I.

Funny thing is despite lack of interaction and development, Fenris and Sebastian never turn against me. I'm not sure if choosing to kill Anders in ACT III has anything to do with it.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 02 mai 2012 - 12:43 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Double post]

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 02 mai 2012 - 12:40 .

[Maria Caliban]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I find it odd that people continue to refer to LIs as bisexual, because I don't remember a single one of them ever labeling themselves as such.

I don't recall Aveline ever labeling herself as human or Fenris ever stating he was a man. I don't remember Morrigan or Alistiar ever saying they're straight either.

Yet no one ever brings up that element X isn't explicitly stated by the characters save when it comes to bisexuality.

[brushyourteeth]

Dakota Strider wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

Just one more question on that: what's wrong with following Hollywood's lead in depicting sex scenes? Especially considering the trend towards a more cinematic approach...:innocent:

Uggh.... the less a game is like Hollywood the better.  Including cinematics.  While there is still an occassionally well done movie, it is not that great of a standard to shoot for.  And some of the best movies, with some of the best love stories, show next to no skin at all.  The Lord of the Rings Trilogy comes to mind, with the love of Aragorn and Arwen, and you could include Eowyn, as a "love-triangle."    Now if that was the standard you wish DA3 to attempt to follow, then I am all for it. 

I agree. It's not that I don't appreciate stunning visuals in games -- I do. But when it comes especially to romance (let's be real, most everyone means sex scenes when they bring this up) let movies be movies and let games be games.  I just find sex to be a very silly thing to use time and resources on.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 02 mai 2012 - 01:16 .

[Quill74Pen]

David Gaider wrote...

Filament wrote...
I know you talk about how people saw rivalry as a penalty and how that was a great misconception about the system, but I don't know if that's really the case (it being a misconception). It can be both an alternate path and a penalty, depending on which path you're trying to achieve. Most people are probably going to go for friendship generally, so getting rivalry points would be a loss for them.

I suspect there's two ways that people play.

For some, they try to imagine where they want the character to end up (ie. "I want Anders at full Friendship") and then try to game all their responses to achieve that end. For others, they pick the responses that are most appropriate to the situation or their character and deal with the consequences as they unfold.

We write with the second playstyle in mind, and that sometimes butts up against the first. Getting a few Rivalry points with Anders is only a problem if you absolutely cannot stand the idea of "falling behind" where you want Anders to end up-- despite the fact that there's plenty of opportunities to do so.

It's possible there's others who just thought "rivalry = bad"... as in "this character doesn't like me, so it must be a bad thing". Complicated by the fact that this was how Origins did it. I mentioned this before, but I don't know how true it is. Just an observation of some responses I've seen.

Regardless, the level of panic some players exhibit at the prospect of getting some unwanted Rivalry points with a character is certainly interesting.

This might sound silly, but a huge factor in why I "panic" at rivalry points in DA2 ties directly into Isabella. Whether or not my character is romancing her, I always worry that if I don't cross a certain threshold for friendship or rivalry points, she will permanently leave the party. So I find myself striving for 100 percent friendship or 100 percent rivalry points, becasue if I get a mix of both, odds are I will not have crossed the threshold to keep her in the party.

This also holds true for other party members, but to a lesser degree because I know they won't just up and leave (although they still might turn on me during the final confrontation).

Sometimes, you almost need a degree in psychology to really understand gamers' motives — and even then that's no guarantee of success.

Quill74Pen

[Cantina]

RosaAquafire wrote...

I'm going to bring up the subjective sexuality thing being talked about the in G&S thread to keep things where they should be:

I agree that Fenris and Merrill's sexualities were fine as they were. You can interpret them as gay, straight, or bi depending on your playthrough and your preferences for their characters, and it doesn't make a difference, because it doesn't change anything about them. Isabela is, of course, bisexual no matter what you do, which is also very suited for her.

The problem here is Anders. Saying his sexuality doesn't matter is not true, because of Karl. I REALLY, REALLY would have liked to have discussed his first love with him as a female Hawke, and to me, the nature of his relationship with Karl makes a huge difference. His slow descent into madness makes a lot more sense to me if he'd lost his first love than if they were just friends, even good friends.

Basically, I am TOTALLY fine with Fenris and Merrill's subjective sexualities because no matter how you code those two characters, it doesn't make any difference at all. But in situations like Anders, where the sexuality makes a huuuuuge difference in how you interpret the character and actually affects in-game events, I think their sexuality can't be subjective.

My two cents, going forward.

Exactly. I was well, pissed to say the least finding out that if you play a male Hawke you find out about Anders and Karl. If you choose to play a female Hawke he does not tell you. It makes it feel as though it never happened, but it did happen.

Truthfully I don't care who prefers what sex, like you said, with Anders, this information would have made a difference. I honestly have no idea why the writers felt the need to shy away from letting a female Hawke know about Anders and Karl.

I am fine with female and male romances being written differently. But when you remove important dialogue and then treat the female Hawke like a delicate flower just makes the romance tasteless.

[Dakota Strider]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I find it odd that people continue to refer to LIs as bisexual, because I don't remember a single one of them ever labeling themselves as such.

I don't recall Aveline ever labeling herself as human or Fenris ever stating he was a man. I don't remember Morrigan or Alistiar ever saying they're straight either.

Yet no one ever brings up that element X isn't explicitly stated by the characters save when it comes to bisexuality.

I....agree...with Maria....again????  Twice in two days?  I had better see a doctor.

[Cantina]

Dakota Strider wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I find it odd that people continue to refer to LIs as bisexual, because I don't remember a single one of them ever labeling themselves as such.

I don't recall Aveline ever labeling herself as human or Fenris ever stating he was a man. I don't remember Morrigan or Alistiar ever saying they're straight either.

Yet no one ever brings up that element X isn't explicitly stated by the characters save when it comes to bisexuality.

I....agree...with Maria....again????  Twice in two days?  I had better see a doctor.

Doctor Anders is in Darktown

[Dakota Strider]

Cantina wrote...

Dakota Strider wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I find it odd that people continue to refer to LIs as bisexual, because I don't remember a single one of them ever labeling themselves as such.

I don't recall Aveline ever labeling herself as human or Fenris ever stating he was a man. I don't remember Morrigan or Alistiar ever saying they're straight either.

Yet no one ever brings up that element X isn't explicitly stated by the characters save when it comes to bisexuality.

I....agree...with Maria....again????  Twice in two days?  I had better see a doctor.

Doctor Anders is in Darktown

I seem to recall that Bethany had healing sphere...and she had a much higher survival rate than Anders in my games....so...I will seek out the sane one.   Especially since Justice may hold a grudge.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I feel the same way about dialogs, and those who complain that they blew through all of the available conversations ASAP.  So, in DA2 simple conversations with followers are metered, and Hawke gets some new convo at the beginning of each act, presented as a quest to catch up with them 3 years later.

I don't mind having dialogue spread evenly througout the game. But if it's spread too thin then yes it's an  issue to me too. It made worst by the fact that I always played nice sensible middle ground character ( neutral diplomatic - that's why I can't get into Shepard binary character. Playing neutral Shepard is disaster. All your squadmates die due to lack of loyalty. It's not fair. So I quit playing as Shepard. She/he is just not my type of character ). And since my F/R constantly floating around 5% to 20% leaning toward friendship path, I do not benefit much viable dialogues and companion's development. In DAO I could rig it with gift just to unlock Morrigan's Black Grimoire personal quest. If there's any other way to make things up with the companion due to disagreement I would do that. But there's none. Therefore, the companion's character development remain static and felt limited. . 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 02 mai 2012 - 02:14 .

[In Exile]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I feel the same way about dialogs, and those who complain that they blew through all of the available conversations ASAP.  So, in DA2 simple conversations with followers are metered, and Hawke gets some new convo at the beginning of each act, presented as a quest to catch up with them 3 years later.

Some people, shocking though it may be, play games as games. And what they like is not to intentionally weaken themselves for a challenge, but rather to be challenged.

Making companion interactions superflous is just like simplifying combat. Saying "you can just take damage until it becomes harder" is not a response to those complaints, any more than "don't use the gift system" is a response to complaints about DA:O's system.

[In Exile]

Maria Caliban wrote...
I don't recall Aveline ever labeling herself as human or Fenris ever stating he was a man. I don't remember Morrigan or Alistiar ever saying they're straight either.

Yet no one ever brings up that element X isn't explicitly stated by the characters save when it comes to bisexuality.

The complaint just comes down to normative expectations. The majority of gamers - being hetereosexual - assume the same of the in-game characters. So when the expectation is unexpectedly shattered, there's pushback. Objectionable though it may be in principle (why should people assume some thing about sexuality in this way), the reality is that they do, and so there are complaints.

If there's a romance scene with Fenris and his body is suddenly that of a woman, you'd hear a lot of complaints, even if he never stated that he was a man. It's not about the epistemology here, basically.

[Maria Caliban]

Dakota Strider wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

Just one more question on that: what's wrong with following Hollywood's lead in depicting sex scenes? Especially considering the trend towards a more cinematic approach...:innocent:

Uggh.... the less a game is like Hollywood the better.  Including cinematics.  While there is still an occassionally well done movie, it is not that great of a standard to shoot for.

Sex scenes and nudity have become far less common in movies since the creation of the PG-13 rating, and the majority of films are now rated PG-13. If you were going to follow the lead of films, you'd get rid of most sexual content.

[brushyourteeth]

Cantina wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

The problem here is Anders. Saying his sexuality doesn't matter is not true, because of Karl. I REALLY, REALLY would have liked to have discussed his first love with him as a female Hawke, and to me, the nature of his relationship with Karl makes a huge difference. His slow descent into madness makes a lot more sense to me if he'd lost his first love than if they were just friends, even good friends.

Exactly. I was well, pissed to say the least finding out that if you play a male Hawke you find out about Anders and Karl. If you choose to play a female Hawke he does not tell you. It makes it feel as though it never happened, but it did happen.

Truthfully I don't care who prefers what sex, like you said, with Anders, this information would have made a difference. I honestly have no idea why the writers felt the need to shy away from letting a female Hawke know about Anders and Karl.

I am fine with female and male romances being written differently. But when you remove important dialogue and then treat the female Hawke like a delicate flower just makes the romance tasteless.

I could be completely wrong (and it wouldn't be the first time) but I was under the impression that Anders' sexuality was subjective based on Hawke's gender. So that in fact, if you played as a female Hawke, Anders' relationship with Karl never happened.

I can't remember where I picked that information up, but it does make sense when one considers that playing as a male Hawke does require some kind of story to explain how Anders went from being a clearly straight character in Awakening to being into guys in DA:II. He tells male Hawke that Karl was his "first."

If anyone can confirm or deny that for me I'd be seriously obliged!

[In Exile]

brushyourteeth wrote...
I could be completely wrong (and it wouldn't be the first time) but I was under the impression that Anders' sexuality was subjective based on Hawke's gender. So that in fact, if you played as a female Hawke, Anders' relationship with Karl never happened.

It doesn't get mentioned, yes. Which is really annoying.

[Iakus]

Chalk me up as another person who's no fan of "Shrodinger's Sexuality" To my mind, the games are all alternate universes, but the only point of divergence is the player.

That being said, I also feel the need to point out that Mass Effect 3 did a really good job in letting the player initiate or avoid a romance dialogue (yes, it's true, this is a compliment about something in ME3!) Conversations start out friendly, and the player gets a really obvious choice to initiate a romance or deflect the relationship into the friendzone. In almost all cases, sticking to friendship paths felt really natural, no awkward passes, no fawning henchmen, no Shepard being a jerk shutting them down. Romance dialogue, of course leads to, well,  obviously romance dialogue. And... other stuff... use your imagination.

Anyway, my two cents. If people don't want half the party clamoring for their character's affections, it can definitely be avoided, I've seen proof.

Modifié par iakus, 02 mai 2012 - 06:50 .

[dracuella]

In Exile wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Cantina wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...
The problem here is Anders. Saying his sexuality doesn't matter is not true, because of Karl. I REALLY, REALLY would have liked to have discussed his first love with him as a female Hawke, and to me, the nature of his relationship with Karl makes a huge difference. His slow descent into madness makes a lot more sense to me if he'd lost his first love than if they were just friends, even good friends.

Exactly. I was well, pissed to say the least finding out that if you play a male Hawke you find out about Anders and Karl. If you choose to play a female Hawke he does not tell you. It makes it feel as though it never happened, but it did happen. 

Truthfully I don't care who prefers what sex, like you said, with Anders, this information would have made a difference. I honestly have no idea why the writers felt the need to shy away from letting a female Hawke know about Anders and Karl. 

I am fine with female and male romances being written differently. But when you remove important dialogue and then treat the female Hawke like a delicate flower just makes the romance tasteless.

I could be completely wrong (and it wouldn't be the first time) but I was under the impression that Anders' sexuality was subjective based on Hawke's gender. So that in fact, if you played as a female Hawke, Anders' relationship with Karl never happened.

I can't remember where I picked that information up, but it does make sense when one considers that playing as a male Hawke does require some kind of story to explain how Anders went from being a clearly straight character in Awakening to being into guys in DA:II. He tells male Hawke that Karl was his "first."

If anyone can confirm or deny that for me I'd be seriously obliged!

It doesn't get mentioned, yes. Which is really annoying.

I have seen no mention of it either but I do recall David Gaider saying something along the lines of  "each playthrough is like a parallel universe". What that means to me is that depending on situation, the character layout of your companions differ. Despite what happened in previous ones, each playthrough is to be considered unique and as such able to bring different aspects of your companions into light. 

It makes great sense to me, really. To me, 
telling your female PC about his first love, Karl, is pointless unless the NPC is bi (or gay and only on a friendship route rather than a romance). In that case, he would speak of Karla. Oh and the mage we would then attempt to rescue would, indeed, also be named Karla.

That's the sort of consistency that I would like. Same story, just different. 

Modifié par dracuella, 02 mai 2012 - 07:25 .

[nightscrawl]

FDrage wrote...

Isabella did the "vanishing" act on me ... and I was kind of "quite a bit surprised". Consequence of my actions probably or the lack of metagaming knowledge. So yes I can understand it, so I wouldn't call it "panic" ... in most games "being neutral" doesn;t do much "good for you" and being a bit between "rivalry" and "friendship" can have the same effect ... in teh end you "lose" out.

--- uh... minor SPOILER for some companions and The Choice in Act 3 ---


I think the solution here would be to have systems that either reward both types of play, or systems where the type of play (metagaming vs traditional/organic gaming) does not matter except for player preference. Do I think that there are people who feel punished by not metagaming the friendship/rivalry in DA2? Yes I do. The form of the "punishment" is being abandoned by your party members half way (Isabela) or at the end of the game. It is entirely possible to cultivate max friendship or rivalry with every single companion, thereby ensuring their participation in the final battle, but you must make the conscious effort to do so. The only exceptions to this rule are Anders and Sebastian, since you can only have one or the other, never both.

I don't think that "being neutral" leading a follower to potentially take the other side is necessarily a bad thing, story wise. It works the same in real life. You know someone and have a relationship with them. Whether it's a casual (neutral) relationship or a closer one will have consequences for the decisions that each party makes. In the case of games like DA2 where your PC is basically the "leader" of a group of people, that leadership only goes to a point. Whether friendship, rival, or romance, the follower has to be persuaded by your own actions to go against what is their initial response. Fenris would fight for the templars, Merrill would fight for the mages. But because they believe in you, or trust you, owe you for saving their life, or even care about you too much to leave you, they go against their instinct for you.

Cantina wrote...

Exactly. I was well, pissed to say the least finding out that if you play a male Hawke you find out about Anders and Karl. If you choose to play a female Hawke he does not tell you. It makes it feel as though it never happened, but it did happen.

...

I am fine with female and male romances being written differently. But when you remove important dialogue and then treat the female Hawke like a delicate flower just makes the romance tasteless.

How do we know it happened if he doesn't tell us?

I can infer a lot of things. From Fenris's extreme reaction ("Shut your mouth Danarius!") when Danarius says "He's quite talented, isn't he? (chuckle)," I have inferred the Danarius raped him at some point, but that is never mentioned or suggested by Fenris himself or anyone else, in all the vast amount of dialogue that Fenris has with both male and female Hawke, both as friend/rival and romance.

So too I can say that nothing of the kind is ever hinted at with female Hawke as friend/rival or romance about, from, or by Anders. E V E R.

Really, the whole tone of a m/m Anders romance is completely different than m/f, which I did not find to be the case with Fenris m/m vs m/f. I found his whole thing about breaking my (female) heart a bit melodramatic if you flirt with him in Act 1, so I never do that. It also seemed ridiculous to me that he would even carry on so when we only just met, and my telling him he's hot really doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. On the other hand, if playng a male, you get the sobering story about Karl, some well placed grief over killing him (sadly lacking in the female version), and a cute interested smile in response to your own interest in him.

For pure unadulterated sap, sure, do a female friendmance. For a relief from all that, do a male friendmance. The difference is astounding.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 02 mai 2012 - 08:44 .

[nightscrawl]

5trangeCase wrote...

So I was reading the Geek and Sundry interview thread that evolved into the "why is everyone bisexual?" thread but suitably, that divergence was halted and this thread was referenced for the discussion, before I had a chance to quote a Dev:

David Gaider wrote...

It's not something that comes up because it's private-- and also because there are no terms that exist in that era.

Ok, are you saying here, that everyone in Thedas is bisexual? Because I was confused.

No, that's not what he means. "It's private" means just that, it's a personal detail about the NPC that the whole world doesn't need to know. Characters like Isabela and Zevran put themselves out there; it's part of their personalities. That's fine for them. The one and ONLY reason that Anders mentions Karl to you is because (playing a male Hawke) you have shown interest in him. He "tests the waters" by talking about his relationship with Karl, then you have the option to question him about it to which he specifically states his view that someone's appearance (ie male/female) shouldn't matter when it comes to love, and outright asks you if it bothers you that he's "been with men." If you hadn't flirted with Anders, it would have remained a "private" matter.

I'll also use the above example to point out that since Anders asks you directly about your opinion, that everyone in Thedas is probably not in agreement on such matters. I've seen it hopefully stated in other threads that perhaps Thedas is beyond such prejudices. I highly doubt it.

"No terms that exist in that era" I assume also means exactly that. Terms like straight, gay (referring to homosexuality, not happiness), and bisexual are relatively new terms and labels. Someone like Isabela, if you asked her preference, would probably just say she has no preference. When meeting Zevran for the first time and talking about the Crows, he mentions that one of the benefits is being supplied with men, women, whatever you like. Such phrases are probably what people in that "era" (even as such an era doesn't exist in real life but has parallels with our own history of development) would use. Zevran in DAO has been with men and women, but he would not call himself bisexual because that term has no meaning for him. Similarly, Alistair would not call himself straight or heterosexual because those terms have no meaning for him.

For the record, coming from surroundings in which people are heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual, I am obviously on the side of: people are so, and our companions should be so.

Games don't have to reflect reality in every way. In reality, only one or usually even none of our followers would be homosexual because of the small percentage of people who are such (surveys vary widely from study to study because of the great stigma in responding affirmatively).

IMO one of the great benefits that Bioware has about this issue is that because it is their fictional world, they can make the social norms whatever they wish. If Bioware is a progressive company, being in a progressive country, and want to make all LI available to everyone regardless of gender they have the freedom to do so because there is not a precedent in their world regarding it.

I'll also point to David's comments about Bioware's progression of romances in the Geek & Sundry interview (9:10 min in). From the 3:1 male/female ratio of LI in their first full-fleged romances in BG2, to the varied romances we had in DAO, to the "everyone available to everyone" style we had in DA2, Bioware itself is still growing and changing as a company in their view on romances and how to have them in their games.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 02 mai 2012 - 09:45 .

[fchopin]

If they make the romances using the opposite way of how they were done in DA2 it would be nice.

The DA2 way of how romances were done is about the worst i have ever played.

[nightscrawl]

fchopin wrote...

If they make the romances using the opposite way of how they were done in DA2 it would be nice.

The DA2 way of how romances were done is about the worst i have ever played.

Can you elaborate? Now is the time (DA3 development) to make your opinion known about the issues and to offer suggestions. Do you want them to go back to DAO style, or is there something else?