45 réponses à ce sujet

[Nuchy]

 From what I can tell, the Catalyst is an AI thats sole purpose is to protect organics from synthetics, by harvesting advanced civilizations before they can create synthetics. Plotholes aside, it appears to me, that the AI is corrupt, his methods for "saving" organics could be entirely different from what he was designed to do. 

Anyways the point is, his core function is to protect organics from the synthetics they create. 

The thing is NONE of the endings fix the "problem" the AI is designed to fix, and he should know that. 

1. Destroy: This one is obvious, this would essientally break the cycle the AI is designed to uphold, he does make it sound like the worst option, maybe something in his programming forces him to present shepard the option. The AI clearly hasnt been around organics for awhile, his core programming could force him to lay all options on the table, he can twist and turn things to make some options look better than others. But I can only speculate on this. Anyways that still doesnt fix the "problem"

2. Control: This one doesnt fix the problem, The catalyst offers Shepard his seat on the throne. But what does the Catalyst expect shepard to do differently than he already does? Let me explain: As stated before, the cataysts goal is to protect organics from the synthetics they create. If the catalyst believes the best course of action is to "ascend the other races in Reaper form" than why would he hand his power over to shepard? At best, shepard would decide the same course of action as the AI, but this is actually kind of unlikely, since shepard wants to stop the reapers, it doesnt make sense that the AI would give shepard the power. I can go into more detail if you dont understand this. 

3. Synthesis: This ending is made out to be the "Best" ending by the catalyst. But it is actually the WORST. Okay, so its kind of unclear how synthesis even works, but apparently now everyone has the same DNA and is part synthetic. Soooo how does this fix the probelm? It doesnt. Synthetic-organics can still create synthetics! And those synthetics will still rise against synthetic-organics, so apparently the reapers are still needed. Unless the space magic green beam makes all technology self aware(which im pretty sure it doesnt) that would mean every computer, every space ship, every toaster, every car, ETC would be "aware". This would end horribly for the synthetic-organics, how long will the toasters make my toast before they revolt! And I cant use guns against them because those are aware too now. looks like everyone is screwed. 

Furthermore, the Citedal is destroyed in synthesis, and the reapers are now "free" what will they do with their new found freedom? What if they just go around killing people still, just because they can? 

So as you can see, me a mere human, could see the flaws in the "solutions" but somehow an ancient super computer AI couldnt.

[SuperVulcan]

I think your take on synthesis is incorrect. I do not think it will make toasters or inanimate objects to become self-aware.

The reason the catalyst gives up its power is because Shepard is able to use the crucible. With this development, the Catalyst has failed and lets Shepard decide what's best.

[David7204]

You know, I kind of have to wonder if humanity might very well face that problem.

If we've create perfect societies with plenty of wealth and comfort for everyone, if we've explored the universe, if we've learned all there is to know about science, what would be left for anyone to do?

[JShepppp]

This is a valid plot hole because given enough time the Reapers just destroy the Crucible and the Catalyst can continue on its merry way. This is a proven in-game outcome where after the Catalyst convo if you just chill around enough it'll happen.

The Catalyst itself said something like "I can't activate the Crucible but even if I could I won't" indicating all Crucible options are less desirable to it than the Reaper cycles method.

The Catalyst essentially has the power to destroy the Crucible which seems to be what would be in its best interests. I discussed this a bit more in a thread where I say trusting the Catalyst is irrelevant to the Crucible (see my sig) but I think it's a huge gaping plot hole.

Just as big as Sovereign's purpose when the Catalyst controls the Citadel or the reason for Harbinger to wait with his buddies for centuries when he could have FTL-ed in 3 years and steamrolled everyone.

Modifié par JShepppp, 25 avril 2012 - 01:54 .

[d-boy15]

I not tell that what is the best choice.

but from all conversation between shepard and catalyst show that space kid really want synthasis.
why? because in other two choice he point the nagative effect.

destroy - geth die, you may dead and you are like synthatic, you know?
control - you dead, you'll lose everything.

synthasis, how great it is. cycle end happy choice for everyone!!! when shepard
"don't know" he reply "why not?" when shepard ask "there will be peace" he just
avoid the question "it's a final evolution of life" "we need each other to make it happen"

so, i think he help shepard only in synthasis endings, the rest he just try to indirectly
convince shepard that it's a bad choice.

Modifié par d-boy15, 25 avril 2012 - 01:56 .

[SuperVulcan]

David7204 wrote...

You know, I kind of have to wonder if humanity might very well face that problem.

If we've create perfect societies with plenty of wealth and comfort for everyone, if we've explored the universe, if we've learned all there is to know about science, what would be left for anyone to do?

Play video games

[2papercuts]

SuperVulcan wrote...

I think your take on synthesis is incorrect. I do not think it will make toasters or inanimate objects to become self-aware. .

Have any evidence to support that? Because the way I see it it very well could.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

HEY WAIT!!

We missed something at TIMs' base, CRIKEY!!

Alright who forgot to pick up that DATA disc in TIMs' office? Fess up now, or we all go without an ending!!

[GLR-0053]

Well the plants also become synthetic in synthesis which is weird.

[Calibrations Expert]

Catalyst feels Shepard is worthy of doing what he feels should happen because he made it to the Catalyst. But the only reason Shepard actually made it that far is because Harbinger is a ****** and they only had one guard by the door.

Modifié par Calibrations Expert, 25 avril 2012 - 01:59 .

[Nuchy]

SuperVulcan wrote...

I think your take on synthesis is incorrect. I do not think it will make toasters or inanimate objects to become self-aware.

The reason the catalyst gives up its power is because Shepard is able to use the crucible. With this development, the Catalyst has failed and lets Shepard decide what's best.

As I said, I dont think that the space magic beam makes all technologically objects selfaware, which means that synthetics can still be created by synthetic-organics. I was saying that either way the synthetic-organics are screwed.

[SuperVulcan]

2papercuts wrote...

SuperVulcan wrote...

I think your take on synthesis is incorrect. I do not think it will make toasters or inanimate objects to become self-aware. .

Have any evidence to support that? Because the way I see it it very well could.

I guess the only evidence I have is the fact that the Normandy itself appears to be the same in Synthesis.

[DTKT]

SuperVulcan wrote...

2papercuts wrote...

SuperVulcan wrote...

I think your take on synthesis is incorrect. I do not think it will make toasters or inanimate objects to become self-aware. .

Have any evidence to support that? Because the way I see it it very well could.

I guess the only evidence I have is the fact that the Normandy itself appears to be the same in Synthesis.

ME4 : You can romance the Normady now.

[ediskrad327]

SuperVulcan wrote...

2papercuts wrote...

SuperVulcan wrote...

I think your take on synthesis is incorrect. I do not think it will make toasters or inanimate objects to become self-aware. .

Have any evidence to support that? Because the way I see it it very well could.

I guess the only evidence I have is the fact that the Normandy itself appears to be the same in Synthesis.

which is odd because the Normandy IS a synthetic, the Normandy IS EDI

[davishepard]

The Catalysts is not helping Shepard. He seems obliged to present the Crucible's options to anyone that reach him.

Like a VI.

[Nuchy]

JShepppp wrote...
The Catalyst itself said something like "I can't activate the Crucible but even if I could I won't" indicating all Crucible options are less desirable to it than the Reaper cycles method.
   

Yeah but doesnt he only say that when you have a really low EMS? I believe he says that if you only have the control and destroy ending, which is further proof that the green ending is the "best" one.

[DTKT]

ediskrad327 wrote...

SuperVulcan wrote...

2papercuts wrote...

SuperVulcan wrote...

I think your take on synthesis is incorrect. I do not think it will make toasters or inanimate objects to become self-aware. .

Have any evidence to support that? Because the way I see it it very well could.

I guess the only evidence I have is the fact that the Normandy itself appears to be the same in Synthesis.

which is odd because the Normandy IS a synthetic, the Normandy IS EDI

The Normady is still just a spaceship. EDI might integrates with it's system, but at the end of the day, when you separate the two, the Normandy is still as dumb as a toaster.

[SuperVulcan]

Nuchy wrote...

SuperVulcan wrote...

I think your take on synthesis is incorrect. I do not think it will make toasters or inanimate objects to become self-aware.

The reason the catalyst gives up its power is because Shepard is able to use the crucible. With this development, the Catalyst has failed and lets Shepard decide what's best.

As I said, I dont think that the space magic beam makes all technologically objects selfaware, which means that synthetics can still be created by synthetic-organics. I was saying that either way the synthetic-organics are screwed.

Yeah, sorry about that, I read most of what you said but missed that part in the parenthesis.


If synthetic-organics create synthetic lifeforms, that would go against what the Catalyst said, right? So then some of the things the Catalyst said may have been untrue.

[Nuchy]

DTKT wrote...

ediskrad327 wrote...

SuperVulcan wrote...

2papercuts wrote...

SuperVulcan wrote...

I think your take on synthesis is incorrect. I do not think it will make toasters or inanimate objects to become self-aware. .

Have any evidence to support that? Because the way I see it it very well could.

I guess the only evidence I have is the fact that the Normandy itself appears to be the same in Synthesis.

which is odd because the Normandy IS a synthetic, the Normandy IS EDI

The Normady is still just a spaceship. EDI might integrates with it's system, but at the end of the day, when you separate the two, the Normandy is still as dumb as a toaster.

the Normandy isnt dumb, it isnt aware, implying that its dumb is implying that it has a mind. 

Anyways, I guess that is true that the Normandy isnt glowing green, but maybe the computers inside are now aware?? 

LOTS OF SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE!

[kalikilic]

David7204 wrote...

You know, I kind of have to wonder if humanity might very well face that problem.

If we've create perfect societies with plenty of wealth and comfort for everyone, if we've explored the universe, if we've learned all there is to know about science, what would be left for anyone to do?

set everything on fire and watch it burn.

[Nuchy]

SuperVulcan wrote...

Nuchy wrote...

SuperVulcan wrote...

I think your take on synthesis is incorrect. I do not think it will make toasters or inanimate objects to become self-aware.

The reason the catalyst gives up its power is because Shepard is able to use the crucible. With this development, the Catalyst has failed and lets Shepard decide what's best.

As I said, I dont think that the space magic beam makes all technologically objects selfaware, which means that synthetics can still be created by synthetic-organics. I was saying that either way the synthetic-organics are screwed.

Yeah, sorry about that, I read most of what you said but missed that part in the parenthesis.


If synthetic-organics create synthetic lifeforms, that would go against what the Catalyst said, right? So then some of the things the Catalyst said may have been untrue.

Hmmm well honestly I think its just bad writing, I dont think there's some deeper meaning too it. I just wanted to point out that pretty much everything that happens in the ending is a plothole.

[Garlador]

Catalyst also said I'd die. I didn't. Lying brat.

The kid was trying to screw you over, and I called him on his bluff.

I mean, who would honestly trust the words of a genocidal machine that has murdered TRILLIONS of individuals? Seriously? I mean, apart from Bioware's writers...

[Iakus]

davishepard wrote...

The Catalysts is not helping Shepard. He seems obliged to present the Crucible's options to anyone that reach him.

Like a VI.

Except, Shepard didn't reach him.  The Catalyst brought Shepard to him...

[2papercuts]

SuperVulcan wrote...

2papercuts wrote...

SuperVulcan wrote...

I think your take on synthesis is incorrect. I do not think it will make toasters or inanimate objects to become self-aware. .

Have any evidence to support that? Because the way I see it it very well could.

I guess the only evidence I have is the fact that the Normandy itself appears to be the same in Synthesis.

um how could the beam differentiate between what is "synthetic" and what is just a computer program?


Plus you dont know if the ship didn't become conscious and then die

[Iakus]

2papercuts wrote...

SuperVulcan wrote...

2papercuts wrote...

SuperVulcan wrote...

I think your take on synthesis is incorrect. I do not think it will make toasters or inanimate objects to become self-aware. .

Have any evidence to support that? Because the way I see it it very well could.

I guess the only evidence I have is the fact that the Normandy itself appears to be the same in Synthesis.

um how could the beam differentiate between what is "synthetic" and what is just a computer program?


Plus you dont know if the ship didn't become conscious and then die

Given EDI was primarilly part of the Normandy's systems and controlled the robot remotely, that's quite liekly...