230 réponses à ce sujet

[Makrys]

OdanUrr wrote...

Hey, wasn't this originally called, "My fascination with IT" or something? That's cheating!

Keen eye  

It was made apparent to me that it was not only 'my' fascination. And the new title gives it a broader sense of scale. And... it just sounds cooler. 

And not cheating! What on earth?! How is changing the title cheating? Goodness, come now. 

Modifié par Makrys, 02 mai 2012 - 03:17 .

[Pewter77]

Valentia X wrote...

ohupthis wrote...



It's just so sad that Bioware won't consider this as a way to appease the crowd, and put some form of continuity BACK into this story.

Because IT isn't necessarily as widely accepted as some of the adoptees would have you think? Just a thought. Not everyone would be happy or 'accept' IT as something they'd want in game. If IT popped up, I may as well just chuck my copy in the firepit.

I'm actually very interested in why you don't want IT as part of it, as to why you would chuck your copy into a fire pit. What makes IT so bad in your opinion.

[Makrys]

Jangocat wrote...

Sorry, I know you put a lot of thought into this but I find IT reprehensible. Shepard has been an immovable, incorruptible rock the whole series and would do anything to get the job done. It was stated multiple times in all three games Shepard was the only one who could save the galaxy. I like to believe there was at least one person in the galaxy with an indomitable will to resist the Reapers and win the war.

Personally I'm hoping the ending turns out to be some vision or dream sequence, or Shepard gets some kind of second chance like when he died in ME2. In fiction there are endless possibilities, indoctrination would be the last thing I would want to see. It completely goes against the character they built up till the end of ME3.

Did you read the first section? With the quotes?

[Bill Casey]

Jangocat wrote...

Sorry, I know you put a lot of thought into this but I find IT reprehensible. Shepard has been an immovable, incorruptible rock the whole series and would do anything to get the job done.

Did you see him towards the end of the game?
He was in pretty rough shape mentally...

It was stated multiple times in all three games Shepard was the only one who could save the galaxy.

Which is why it'd be stupid for the reapers not to try to indoctrinate him...
The entire galaxy will listen to him...

I like to believe there was at least one person in the galaxy with an indomitable will to resist the Reapers and win the war.

According to IT, he does if you don't start siding with TIM and the Reapers...

Personally I'm hoping the ending turns out to be some vision or dream sequence, or Shepard gets some kind of second chance like when he died in ME2.

He does if you pick destroy, according to the theory...
He successfully fights off an indoctrination attempt...

In fiction there are endless possibilities, indoctrination would be the last thing I would want to see. It completely goes against the character they built up till the end of ME3.

hahahaha, no it doesn't...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 02 mai 2012 - 03:28 .

[liggy002]

Makrys wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...



You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.

You take the red pill, and you stay in wonderland. And I show you how deep the rabbithole goes.

Actually, I'm pretty sure its switched around. Doesn't the red pill snap you out of it, and the blue further induce you? Also, good point. I believe it was Walters who referenced the Matrix when asked pre-release about ME3's ending. Liggy should get in here, because he knows more about that then I do.

EDIT: Ah! And you just came in! ^^ haha

Yes, the blue pill will end Shepard's story.  He will never wake up from the dream.

The red pill that Neo takes will wake him up from the dreamworld of the Matrix.   Bioware will show us "how deep the rabbit hole goes." 

Yeah, just different colors from the Matrix. Which could have been done on purpose so as not to draw a DIRECT COMPARISON. But the idea is still there if the IT is true. And I so hope you are right on this. If so, my Shepard is waking up!

No, actually the colors are the same as the Matrix.  Taking the Red pill will wake Neo up from his dream.  When Shepard chooses the Red choice, he will wake up.  Neo chooses the blue pill, he remains in the Matrix, indoctrinated by the machines and stuck in a fake world that he thinks is real... much like Shepard would be if he chose control or the blue option.

When Morpheus is referring to the "rabbit hole" he isn't referring to a dream.   You have to see the Matrix or watch an extended clip of this scene to know what I am talking about.  When he refers to Neo "waking up in his bed" he means that Neo would "wake up in his bed in the Dream world."  He will believe what he wants to believe NOT what is true.  When Morpheus offers Neo the truth, he is offering him the RED pill.

Modifié par liggy002, 02 mai 2012 - 03:33 .

[Makrys]

liggy002 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...



You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.

You take the red pill, and you stay in wonderland. And I show you how deep the rabbithole goes.

Actually, I'm pretty sure its switched around. Doesn't the red pill snap you out of it, and the blue further induce you? Also, good point. I believe it was Walters who referenced the Matrix when asked pre-release about ME3's ending. Liggy should get in here, because he knows more about that then I do.

EDIT: Ah! And you just came in! ^^ haha

Yes, the blue pill will end Shepard's story.  He will never wake up from the dream.

The red pill that Neo takes will wake him up from the dreamworld of the Matrix.   Bioware will show us "how deep the rabbit hole goes." 

Yeah, just different colors from the Matrix. Which could have been done on purpose so as not to draw a DIRECT COMPARISON. But the idea is still there if the IT is true. And I so hope you are right on this. If so, my Shepard is waking up!

No, actually the colors are the same as the Matrix.  Taking the Red pill will wake Neo up from his dream.  When Shepard chooses the Red choice, he will wake up.  Neo chooses the blue pill, he remains in the Matrix, indoctrinated by the machines and stuck in a fake world that he thinks is real... much like Shepard would be if he chose control or the blue option.

So... Morpheus was lying? I haven't seen the Matrix in awhile...

Modifié par Makrys, 02 mai 2012 - 03:32 .

[TheLostGenius]

what the heck is an IT?

[HiddenKING]

TheLostGenius wrote...

what the heck is an IT?

An idea that is erroneously called a theory with no evidence supportin it, that people who are graspin at emergency induction port are usin. Amounts to "It was all a dream"

Modifié par HiddenKING, 02 mai 2012 - 03:35 .

[Pewter77]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Keep talking. You're doing nothing but proving me right. See, even I admit I could be wrong, but you're in denial that you could ever be wrong. And that's some Grade A hubris. We won't know the truth until Bioware releases the EC. That's a fact and you can't ignore it without dispensing with logic altogether.

What are you talking about? of course I could be wrong, the whole 3 games after the eden Prime Beacon could be dream-indoctrination, anything is possible, the only question is how likely is it. As I've said my primary problem is with people suggesting that people who've seen their "proof" and disagreed either didn't understand or are in some other way mentally disadvantaged, as you've been doing

What I am doing is saying that I lean towards one camp but both camps could be wrong. Also, I was disproving the fallacy of using the argument of atheism versus religion to compare to this argument. If you want to believe I'm saying that someone is disadvantaged because they don't understand or are mentally-challenged, you've missed my point entirely. Neither of us have a monopoly on the truth until the EC is released so dismissing either side completely is illogical, but not a symptom of brain damage, as you seem to imply that I am implying.

Very intelligent people think and say illogical things all the time. That doesn't make them mentally disadvantaged but it could be just their opinion and a different view of the issue. This is what I think it comes down to at this point, opinion and difference of interpretation until we know the real truth. I am honest when I say I don't understand why others hold the opposite viewpoint but I can still respect that their viewpoint could be entirely plausible. Like you, I find the opposite view more unlikely however. We are two sides of the same coin.

I hate the fact that people come into conversations and have nothing but superficial and terrible reasoning for why IT is bad. You call it names like fan fiction, or say things like "you just wish Bioware isn't bad at video game stories". I have yet to see a different view given with as much evidence as the IT, another way they could wrap up the trilogy or an actual problem with the IT that is legitimitly a problem. Yes I think the IT is the best way to fix the ending, no i don't think that bioware has to use it for the endings to be fixed.

It seems as though you are just coming in here to spit all over the people that argue for the IT and not the theory itself. If you gave an alternate theory and had a lot of evidence for it that would be fine or actual evidence to why its wrong that is substantiated that would also be fine. But as it is, Bioware has essentially said that the ending is messed up and they're fixing it and the IT is a very good explanation to how they could fix it.

As it is, I'm suprised that I have even taken you seriously and written this much. You have basically made a comparison that anyone who likes IT is part of a religious cult and done a lot of name calling throughout your posts. 

[liggy002]

Makrys wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...



You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.

You take the red pill, and you stay in wonderland. And I show you how deep the rabbithole goes.

Actually, I'm pretty sure its switched around. Doesn't the red pill snap you out of it, and the blue further induce you? Also, good point. I believe it was Walters who referenced the Matrix when asked pre-release about ME3's ending. Liggy should get in here, because he knows more about that then I do.

EDIT: Ah! And you just came in! ^^ haha

Yes, the blue pill will end Shepard's story.  He will never wake up from the dream.

The red pill that Neo takes will wake him up from the dreamworld of the Matrix.   Bioware will show us "how deep the rabbit hole goes." 

Yeah, just different colors from the Matrix. Which could have been done on purpose so as not to draw a DIRECT COMPARISON. But the idea is still there if the IT is true. And I so hope you are right on this. If so, my Shepard is waking up!

No, actually the colors are the same as the Matrix.  Taking the Red pill will wake Neo up from his dream.  When Shepard chooses the Red choice, he will wake up.  Neo chooses the blue pill, he remains in the Matrix, indoctrinated by the machines and stuck in a fake world that he thinks is real... much like Shepard would be if he chose control or the blue option.

So... Morpheus was lying? I haven't seen the Matrix in awhile...

Mak, no Morpheus isn't lying.  If you watch the Matrix, you will see that the Red pill is Neo waking up from the dream.  After he takes it, Neo wakes up in a pod with a bunch of machine tubes in him and sees the real world - a devastated waste land.  Notice how Neo takes the Red pill.

The way Morpheus says it is confusing.  By "taking Neo down the rabbit hole" he is showing Neo an seemingly unbelievable world that is in fact the Real World.  If you remember from the Matrix, the Real world is run by machines and is a wasteland that is the result of a nuclear war between man and machine.  "Waking up in his bed" means that Neo will wake up in his bed in the dream world.  It's a false reality created by the machines and Neo's mind.  He will only think that he is waking up in the real world.

By the way, this entire scene with the Red and the Blue pill takes place in the Matrix.  It is not the real world.  Again, Morpheus will show him how deep the rabbit hole goes.... meaning he will show Neo the full truth.  The truth is that everything Neo sees and knows is a lie constructed by the machines.

Modifié par liggy002, 02 mai 2012 - 03:41 .

[Makrys]

liggy002 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...



You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.

You take the red pill, and you stay in wonderland. And I show you how deep the rabbithole goes.

Actually, I'm pretty sure its switched around. Doesn't the red pill snap you out of it, and the blue further induce you? Also, good point. I believe it was Walters who referenced the Matrix when asked pre-release about ME3's ending. Liggy should get in here, because he knows more about that then I do.

EDIT: Ah! And you just came in! ^^ haha

Yes, the blue pill will end Shepard's story.  He will never wake up from the dream.

The red pill that Neo takes will wake him up from the dreamworld of the Matrix.   Bioware will show us "how deep the rabbit hole goes." 

Yeah, just different colors from the Matrix. Which could have been done on purpose so as not to draw a DIRECT COMPARISON. But the idea is still there if the IT is true. And I so hope you are right on this. If so, my Shepard is waking up!

No, actually the colors are the same as the Matrix.  Taking the Red pill will wake Neo up from his dream.  When Shepard chooses the Red choice, he will wake up.  Neo chooses the blue pill, he remains in the Matrix, indoctrinated by the machines and stuck in a fake world that he thinks is real... much like Shepard would be if he chose control or the blue option.

So... Morpheus was lying? I haven't seen the Matrix in awhile...

Mak, no Morpheus isn't lying.  If you watch the Matrix, you will see that the Red pill is Neo waking up from the dream.  After he takes it, Neo wakes up in a pod with a bunch of machine tubes in him and sees the real world - a devastated waste land.  Notice how Neo takes the Red pill.

The way Morpheus says it is confusing.  By "taking Neo down the rabbit hole" he is showing Neo an seemingly unbelievable world that is in fact the Real World.  If you remember from the Matrix, the Real world is run by machines and is a wasteland that is the result of a nuclear war between man and machine.  "Waking up in his bed" means that Neo will wake up in his bed in the dream world.  It's a false reality created by the machines and Neo's mind.  He will only think that he is waking up in the real world.

By the way, this entire scene with the Red and the Blue pill takes place in the Matrix.  It is not the real world.  Again, Morpheus will show him how deep the rabbit hole goes.... meaning he will show Neo the full truth.  The truth is that everything Neo sees and knows is a lie constructed by the machines.

Aha! Thanks, bud. I have forgotten SO much... wow.

[Makrys]

HiddenKING wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

what the heck is an IT?

An idea that is erroneously called a theory with no evidence supportin it, that people who are graspin at emergency induction port are usin. Amounts to "It was all a dream"

So you just walked into a room full of people, while wearing a shirt that says "Everyone here is idiots!", and you expect your opinion to be respected?

[FTR GROG]

So I gotta say I was thoroughly disappointed in the ending till i discovered the IT. It left a horrible taste in my mouth and kept me from playing more then 1 playthrough but thanks to the IT I have enough hope to start a insanity playthrough from ME1 so far I have finished ME1 and starting ME2 I will 100% everything in time for extended cut! don't let me down bioware!

[Makrys]

FTR GROG wrote...

So I gotta say I was thoroughly disappointed in the ending till i discovered the IT. It left a horrible taste in my mouth and kept me from playing more then 1 playthrough but thanks to the IT I have enough hope to start a insanity playthrough from ME1 so far I have finished ME1 and starting ME2 I will 100% everything in time for extended cut! don't let me down bioware!

That's the spirit! And something thats great about the IT! It renews hope in people! What is wrong with that? Nothing.

[kglaser]

Makrys wrote...

FTR GROG wrote...

So I gotta say I was thoroughly disappointed in the ending till i discovered the IT. It left a horrible taste in my mouth and kept me from playing more then 1 playthrough but thanks to the IT I have enough hope to start a insanity playthrough from ME1 so far I have finished ME1 and starting ME2 I will 100% everything in time for extended cut! don't let me down bioware!

That's the spirit! And something thats great about the IT! It renews hope in people! What is wrong with that? Nothing.

+1.
Also, I am not sure how the whole "you are all idjits" stance of the anti-IT crowd is supposed to sway us to their side.  Calling a (rather large and vocal) group of people stupid tends to work against that. <_<

[Makrys]

kglaser wrote...

Makrys wrote...

FTR GROG wrote...

So I gotta say I was thoroughly disappointed in the ending till i discovered the IT. It left a horrible taste in my mouth and kept me from playing more then 1 playthrough but thanks to the IT I have enough hope to start a insanity playthrough from ME1 so far I have finished ME1 and starting ME2 I will 100% everything in time for extended cut! don't let me down bioware!

That's the spirit! And something thats great about the IT! It renews hope in people! What is wrong with that? Nothing.

+1.
Also, I am not sure how the whole "you are all idjits" stance of the anti-IT crowd is supposed to sway us to their side.  Calling a (rather large and vocal) group of people stupid tends to work against that. <_<

It makes me think less of their opinions if thats all they have to bring to the tabel: hate.

[HiddenKING]

Makrys wrote...

HiddenKING wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

what the heck is an IT?

An idea that is erroneously called a theory with no evidence supportin it, that people who are graspin at emergency induction port are usin. Amounts to "It was all a dream"

So you just walked into a room full of people, while wearing a shirt that says "Everyone here is idiots!", and you expect your opinion to be respected?

If I wanted to call everyone an idiot I would. Besides the Indoctrination Idea can't be called a theory, much less a legitimate endin.

And no, I'd wear the shirt, walk to the middle of the room, climb on the table call everyone an idiot and say that they're wrong, put up a banner, and then ask for any questions.

[Makrys]

HiddenKING wrote...

Makrys wrote...

HiddenKING wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

what the heck is an IT?

An idea that is erroneously called a theory with no evidence supportin it, that people who are graspin at emergency induction port are usin. Amounts to "It was all a dream"

So you just walked into a room full of people, while wearing a shirt that says "Everyone here is idiots!", and you expect your opinion to be respected?

If I wanted to call everyone an idiot I would. Besides the Indoctrination Idea can't be called a theory, much less a legitimate endin.

And no, I'd wear the shirt, walk to the middle of the room, climb on the table call everyone an idiot and say that they're wrong, put up a banner, and then ask for any questions.

[JShepppp]

My main problem with the Reapers was how they basically became morons. Now if that could be solved then I'd be a little happier. The moron premise is the premise that the Reapers are all morons.

The current ending follows the moron premise because Shepard makes it WITH THE CATALYST'S HELP to the Crucible.

The IT theory also follows the moron premise because (a) they can kill Shepard outright with "fast" indoctrination and ( still, if Shepard is lying on the ground, the Reapers should just kill him outright.

Preserving Shepard for being "special" is counterintuitive to "efficient" Reaper nature and follows the moron premise.

I may be too broad here, but no ending will be better to me than the current one unless it violates the moron premise. But IT I think adheres to the moron premise more than the current ending, so I personally don't prefer it.

For those that do - good that you and your Sheps found closure. I respect that and idealistically and vainly hope that we do not see hate messages about IT in either support or criticism of it.

[The Milky Waver]

Bravo! I suggest you send this to Bioware, or let them see it just in case they haven't seen this post. The best IT post I've ever read on BSN! Once again, Bravo!

[XXIceColdXX]

Great read OP. the IT theory is giving me actual hope of a great finish to my Mass Effect trilogy.

If the extended cut is based on IT and they gives us a ending after Shep wakes up that fits with the rest of the Mass Effect series, I will be very happy.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Jangocat wrote...

Sorry, I know you put a lot of thought into this but I find IT reprehensible. Shepard has been an immovable, incorruptible rock the whole series and would do anything to get the job done. It was stated multiple times in all three games Shepard was the only one who could save the galaxy. I like to believe there was at least one person in the galaxy with an indomitable will to resist the Reapers and win the war.

Personally I'm hoping the ending turns out to be some vision or dream sequence, or Shepard gets some kind of second chance like when he died in ME2. In fiction there are endless possibilities, indoctrination would be the last thing I would want to see. It completely goes against the character they built up till the end of ME3.

Partially yes, sure Shep is "a strong willed individual", however a large part of Mass Effect has been about Indoctrination, how it happens, how fast it happens, how often it happens, if it can be reversed, or not.

So it isn't totally inconceivable, that our beloved Shep, could to SOME degree fall prey to this insidious threat.

Now don't be bringing Saren into this, he's a Turian, different mental capacity/makeup, just that Nobody is immune to the effects. Different people succumb differently, so this could be happening to a lesser degree, but remember Shep hasn't been getting the PROPER sleep as of late, and Those dreams are rather "unnerving".

Shep could be hallucinating, or just dreaming about that poor child, and feelings of guilt is slowly creeping in.

I'm not holding out much hope for this theory to be included, but it still has more merit than what we were 'fed'.

[FTR GROG]

JShepppp wrote...

 The moron premise is the premise that the Reapers are all morons.

This is the best line I've ever read

[RavenEchoseven]

HiddenKING wrote...

Makrys wrote...

HiddenKING wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

what the heck is an IT?

An idea that is erroneously called a theory with no evidence supportin it, that people who are graspin at emergency induction port are usin. Amounts to "It was all a dream"

So you just walked into a room full of people, while wearing a shirt that says "Everyone here is idiots!", and you expect your opinion to be respected?

If I wanted to call everyone an idiot I would. Besides the Indoctrination Idea can't be called a theory, much less a legitimate endin.

And no, I'd wear the shirt, walk to the middle of the room, climb on the table call everyone an idiot and say that they're wrong, put up a banner, and then ask for any questions.

And why can't the Indoctrination Theory be called a theory? And how is there no evidence supporting it in a thread that begins with post calling up evidence to support the theory?

[XXIceColdXX]

I dont think everyone posting here has actually read the opening post. It is filled with evidence that supports the Indoctrination Theory.

If it proves to be not true, so be it, it was a well thought out theory that would have fit quite well, and as long as after Shep woke up Bioware gave us a satisfying conclusion, they could have solved this ending debacle.