230 réponses à ce sujet

[Iconoclaste]

dreman9999 wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Also, the reaper don't want to turn organics to husk...The want to urn organics to Reapers.

This is factually incorrect, they want to do both, only some humans will end up as Reapers, the rest will be processed as shock troops or slaughtered outright.

That's for the war. Once the woris over, they will take waht then need to make reaper and leave the rest to die off using some to see the progess of the next cycle like the collectors did. The reaper general goal is to forcly advance  the current advance space worthy advance life to reapers. This was pointed out in ME2.

For the endings "outcomes", let's not take what we see, but for the Reaper's methods and motives, let's take those same endings? Do you understand the meaning of "taking what fits IT and leaving everything not fitting outside", making this IT an easy target for any counter-argument?

And I warn you : saying the Catalyst is a liar will have you painted in a corner very quickly. A liar is a liar, no one will be able to say this part is true, and this other part is false. Capice?

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 02 mai 2012 - 06:24 .

[dreman9999]

Iconoclaste wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Also, the reaper don't want to turn organics to husk...The want to urn organics to Reapers.

This is factually incorrect, they want to do both, only some humans will end up as Reapers, the rest will be processed as shock troops or slaughtered outright.

That's for the war. Once the woris over, they will take waht then need to make reaper and leave the rest to die off using some to see the progess of the next cycle like the collectors did. The reaper general goal is to forcly advance  the current advance space worthy advance life to reapers. This was pointed out in ME2.

For the endings purpose, let's not take what we see, but for the Reaper's methods and motives, let's take those same endings? Do you understand the meaning of "taking what fits IT and leaving everything not fitting outside", making this IT an easy target for any counter-argument?

No it does not. You missing the poin that the endingis not even finished. With EC being made now, the ending can't be taken as fact. A conclusion with out all the solid fact is always an incomplete concution. Once EC comes out then you can say what it what....Also, there is nothing that prove IT is false anyway.
And on point with the Star child...Your missing the point that he has every reason to lie and trick Shepard. He has no reason to help him.

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 mai 2012 - 06:27 .

[Iconoclaste]

dreman9999 wrote...

]No it does not. You missing the poin that the endingis not even finished. With EC being made now, the ending can't be taken as fact. A conclusion with out all the solid fact is always an incomplete concution. Once EC comes out then you can say what it what....Also, there is nothing that prove IT is flase anyway.

This is written well after the fact. You are proposing that what we see is not what we see, since DLC is coming. But this DLC was announced after we saw what we still see now, and what we all saw was badly rendered, and that is the reason for the "clarification" DLC. I point to you that all this "speculation" around "evidence" to support IT was not at all the same when the DLC was announced. Mr Ray Musika would surely not have "faked" his statement, which seemed pretty clear, although understandably upsetting for many.

No one has to prove a Theory "false", it's to the tenants of a theory to state it correctly and support it by facts, established by some kind of "proof". Once this is achieved, then someone can try to disprove those facts, and debunk the theory. Now, you are mostly fishing for ways to fill in the holes in the speculative material of the theory. We have yet to see facts.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 02 mai 2012 - 06:34 .

[dreman9999]

Iconoclaste wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

]No it does not. You missing the poin that the endingis not even finished. With EC being made now, the ending can't be taken as fact. A conclusion with out all the solid fact is always an incomplete concution. Once EC comes out then you can say what it what....Also, there is nothing that prove IT is flase anyway.

This is written well after the fact. You are proposing that what we see is not what we see, since DLC is coming. But this DLC was announced after we saw what we still see now, and what we all saw was badly rendered.

No one has to prove a Theory "false", it's to the tenants of a theory to state it correctly and support it by facts. Once this is achieved, then someone can try to disprove those facts, and debunk the theory. Now, you are mostly fishing for ways to fill in the holes in the speculative material of the theory. We have yet to see facts.

It doesn't matter when it was writtien...Till we get EC, nothing in the ending can be stated as fact. The dlc will provide a new perspective to what the ending  is one way or another. The fact the EC is being mademake it clear we can take the ending as face value as yet.

And on facts for IT...Yes, we have facts...
http://social.biowar...75/blog/212630/ 

[Iconoclaste]

"Yes"
-No.
"Well then... maybe!"
-Neither.
"Never mind. Try this other way instead."
-No, thank you. Good bye.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 02 mai 2012 - 06:38 .

[DiebytheSword]

dreman9999 wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Also, the reaper don't want to turn organics to husk...The want to urn organics to Reapers.

This is factually incorrect, they want to do both, only some humans will end up as Reapers, the rest will be processed as shock troops or slaughtered outright.

That's for the war. Once the wAr is over, they will take what t then need to make reapers and leave the rest to die off using some to see the progess of the next cycle like the collectorswere used for. The reapers general goal is to forcly advance  the current advance space worthy  life to reapers. This was pointed out in ME2.

That does not change the truth.  Regardless of the relative state of the war or extinction, the Reapers designs for mankind are threefold, as I have stated.

Most will simply die.
Some will become Reapers.
Some will become Husks.

[DiebytheSword]

Tigerblood and Sharkshakes wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

Tigerblood and Sharkshakes wrote...

Or maybe in fact
shepard is just a simluation run by harbinger to ready themselfs for the galatic cleansing

you cant prove or disprove it.i must be right i win

I'm going to pretend thats not a dig at me that's totally pointless and ineffective.

It has never been my position that HK's idea is impossible, only that he's an ass for saying everyone elses ideas are. 

Come at me bro.

On the other hand you could just be cracking wise, in which case, meh, it wasn't that funny.

HK's my bro, but im not going in personally

its the whole mentalitly to the IT with reguards of proof or none.and my troll comment in a alter universe is probably thy most accurate idea stated

Thanks for clarifying that Tiger.  It seems like you agree that nothing can be proven.  Is that the case?

[dreman9999]

DiebytheSword wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Also, the reaper don't want to turn organics to husk...The want to urn organics to Reapers.

This is factually incorrect, they want to do both, only some humans will end up as Reapers, the rest will be processed as shock troops or slaughtered outright.

That's for the war. Once the wAr is over, they will take what t then need to make reapers and leave the rest to die off using some to see the progess of the next cycle like the collectorswere used for. The reapers general goal is to forcly advance  the current advance space worthy  life to reapers. This was pointed out in ME2.

That does not change the truth.  Regardless of the relative state of the war or extinction, the Reapers designs for mankind are threefold, as I have stated.

Most will simply die.
Some will become Reapers.
Some will become Husks.

That still doesn't cahgn their goal. That simply a how. There would be less death if the reapers whereable to use their orignal plan...Regardless of how you cut it, their goal is to make us into reapers.

[dreman9999]

Iconoclaste wrote...

"Yes"
-No.
"Well then... maybe!"
-Neither.
"Never mind. Try this other way instead."
-No, thank you. Good bye.

Make sence this time...Ok?

[DiebytheSword]

dreman9999 wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Also, the reaper don't want to turn organics to husk...The want to urn organics to Reapers.

This is factually incorrect, they want to do both, only some humans will end up as Reapers, the rest will be processed as shock troops or slaughtered outright.

That's for the war. Once the wAr is over, they will take what t then need to make reapers and leave the rest to die off using some to see the progess of the next cycle like the collectorswere used for. The reapers general goal is to forcly advance  the current advance space worthy  life to reapers. This was pointed out in ME2.

That does not change the truth.  Regardless of the relative state of the war or extinction, the Reapers designs for mankind are threefold, as I have stated.

Most will simply die.
Some will become Reapers.
Some will become Husks.

That still doesn't cahgn their goal. That simply a how. There would be less death if the reapers whereable to use their orignal plan...Regardless of how you cut it, their goal is to make us into reapers.

No, their goal is stated to be controlling the rise of AI.  Using humanity is a means to that end, nothing else.  Thus, they plan to kill most and enslave the remainder by making them Husks or turning them into new reapers.  The intent doesn't matter, they are doing these things to mankind.  The goal is not to make Humanity reapers, it is to continue the Reaper agenda infinately.

[dreman9999]

DiebytheSword wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Also, the reaper don't want to turn organics to husk...The want to urn organics to Reapers.

This is factually incorrect, they want to do both, only some humans will end up as Reapers, the rest will be processed as shock troops or slaughtered outright.

That's for the war. Once the wAr is over, they will take what t then need to make reapers and leave the rest to die off using some to see the progess of the next cycle like the collectorswere used for. The reapers general goal is to forcly advance  the current advance space worthy  life to reapers. This was pointed out in ME2.

That does not change the truth.  Regardless of the relative state of the war or extinction, the Reapers designs for mankind are threefold, as I have stated.

Most will simply die.
Some will become Reapers.
Some will become Husks.

That still doesn't cahgn their goal. That simply a how. There would be less death if the reapers whereable to use their orignal plan...Regardless of how you cut it, their goal is to make us into reapers.

No, their goal is stated to be controlling the rise of AI.  Using humanity is a means to that end, nothing else.  Thus, they plan to kill most and enslave the remainder by making them Husks or turning them into new reapers.  The intent doesn't matter, they are doing these things to mankind.  The goal is not to make Humanity reapers, it is to continue the Reaper agenda infinately.

No, it's not just the control of AI alone. It 's to control the progress of organic life. To the reapers, it's not just the AI that's the problem., It's that organic life causes conflict. If it was to stop AI's alone, the reaper would be focus on killing the geth as well , which they are not.
It is to make the reapers so in a way the race will not go extict and to keep the galatic order in balance.

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 mai 2012 - 08:00 .

[Iconoclaste]

dreman9999 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

"Yes"
-No.
"Well then... maybe!"
-Neither.
"Never mind. Try this other way instead."
-No, thank you. Good bye.

Make sence this time...Ok?

Too hard for you? I wonder how you can debate IT. The biggest problem of IT is the lack of proper support from too many guys like you, who just surf the wave started by others. You are mostly a nuisance to them (relax, you're not alone!), and if I was in any amount to believe in IT, it would surely not be because of people like you that seem to have problems with common sense. Too bad for IT, and for those who seem to put real efforts and imagination into trying to shape it conveniently. You get what me talk about?

Maybe you could go in the IT thread try to be some kind of clown to amuse the others , like some are currently doing all day long. That shouldn't require too much concentration, and you will still be able to copy the likes of you to avoid thinking.

Bye bye.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 02 mai 2012 - 08:04 .

[Karimloo]

Man you didn't even give me the courtesy of a TL:DR summary.

[dreman9999]

Iconoclaste wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

"Yes"
-No.
"Well then... maybe!"
-Neither.
"Never mind. Try this other way instead."
-No, thank you. Good bye.

Make sence this time...Ok?

Too hard for you? I wonder how you can debate IT. The biggest problem of IT is the lack of proper support from too many guys like you, who just surf the wave started by others. You are mostly a nuisance to them (relax, you're not alone!), and if I was in any amount to believe in IT, it would surely not be because of people like you that seem to have problems with common sense. Too bad for IT, and for those who seem to put real efforts and imagination into trying to shape it conveniently. You get what me talk about?

Maybe you could go in the IT thread try to be some kind of clown to amuse the others , like some are currently doing all day long. That shouldn't require too much concentration, and you will still be able to copy the likes of you to avoid thinking.

Bye bye.

You did say anything at all in the comment you posted. Really, How is that making any sense. Also, you seem to alway skip this...
http://social.biowar...75/blog/212630/ ..When you say it lacks proper support...It has, you're just blind to it.

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 mai 2012 - 08:17 .

[draken-heart]

i am not "enthralled" by it but, in the immortal words of TIM, the pattern is there, hidden in the data.

[Iconoclaste]

dreman9999 wrote...
You did say anything at all in the comment you posted. Really, How is that making any sense. Also, you seem to alway skip this...
http://social.biowar...75/blog/212630/ ..When you say it lakes proper support...It has, you're just blind to it.

Never mind. Have a nice day anyways.

[dreman9999]

Iconoclaste wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
You did say anything at all in the comment you posted. Really, How is that making any sense. Also, you seem to alway skip this...
http://social.biowar...75/blog/212630/ ..When you say it lacks proper support...It has, you're just blind to it.

Never mind. Have a nice day anyways.

aka....I can't counter what stated in this link.

[Jaroslav Jakubov]

Its a shame they didnt come with this (IT) by default... it would explain a lot of things that didnt make sense... plus, ending itself - remember how Sovereign was weakened once Saren's husk was destroyed? Why not make it, that controling Shepard's mind was something Reapers wanted to achieve and failing it (by Sheppard chosing destroy) meant Reapers were disoriented for some time,left without shields so allied fleet could destroy them easilly??


so many posibilities how to end it, and they chose the worst one...

(back to playing Witcher 1 and 2)

[Baa Baa]

If IT isn't true it's a ridiculous coincidence that they would accidentally place all the foreshadowing in there

[D.Sharrah]

OP...excellent read, very well done indeed.

I have mentioned it a couple of times on other IT discussion threads (but it seems to get lost in the wash), another point to consider is the comparisons that can be made between Shepard and Saren. In the first game you spend your entire time fighting every single little thing that Saren is trying to do...but by the second game (depending on your choices) you start to travel the same path (recruiting the Krogans/Geth)...and in the third it would be a fitting end to this mirror to face the same evil that ultimately was Saren's down fall, indoctrination.

[Makrys]

Karimloo wrote...

Man you didn't even give me the courtesy of a TL:DR summary.

Deep thoughts, and many detailed points cannot be summarized in a mere few sentences. 

[Makrys]

OdanUrr wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

He refers to himself and the reaper as "we" so that's good enough for me.

Doesn't Saren ask Shepard to "join us" in ME1? Somehow, I don't think he's on a par with the Reapers.

'Join us', is referring to Saren AND the Reapers. Why... is that not obvious? When Saren says 'us', who else could he be talking about? Unless I didn't understand your post.

[Makrys]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Makrys wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

He's not even trying to stop them. 

The moment he gives Shepard a choice he's trying to stop them.

Did you read the second half of my original post?

There seems to be as many versions of IT as there are supporters. Not easy to grasp, isn't it? Maybe that doesn't make for a very serious approach, given that I see many supporters trying to force their tiny bits of individual evidences  collected from Youtube and others through the skulls of people that only seek some rational explanation. Lots of speculation does not amount to an ounce of fact.

No one is 'forcing' anything on anyone. Its a thread which you do not have to read. Also, free speech. What the hell kind of an argument is that?

I suggest you actually read what I said before you come in here to troll. That long post on page 8? Yeah... that one. I specifically said there are no 'facts' and explained why. Nice try though.

No speculation does not amount to fact. And I never said it did. But instead of just saying "IT isn't true, and never will be!", like most of the other ITers, why don't you actually come up with some credible arguments against the IT? Like we do, for it. If you hate it so much, attempt to show evidence against it. Otheriwise, you are simply a flamer and will be ignored. If you come in here to bash people's opinions just because they don't match with your own, A. there's the door, and B. you will be reported.

Modifié par Makrys, 03 mai 2012 - 02:33 .