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April 24th Balance Changes (The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly)


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#76
ReflectedRed

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Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Iodine wrote...

there are weapons to work toward as a goal/reward, but they aren't going to turn you into a multiplayer god automatically if you happen to get lucky with a random unlock on your first pack. They just need to iron out the balance issues and mechanics, and it will at least be tolerable for both ME1 and ME2 system fans.


Exactly, I simply think that the more rare the weapon, the more desirable the "extra" effects of said weapon should be, not godly good, but something to make the Preditor X and the Phalanx X Stand on equal ground...without having the same stats.
I think they did well with the Widow vs Mantis though. The damage it appropriate, and the widows armor piercing balances with the weight...till you get them both to level X...then the damamge is the same and a simple piercing mod make the Mantis X suddenly better than the Widow X... T.T


Nope, Widow X deals more damage than Mantis X. Damage goes further than the bar shows
https://docs.google....bWc&output=html 

#77
LT RADCZEK

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I'm not so sure about the lightweight materials being broken. I seem to remember my cooldowns were longer when I took off the lightweight materials. I was using a Geth engineer with a GPS and GPSMG, with the only difference being the lightweight materials.

#78
Cyonan

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LT RADCZEK wrote...

I'm not so sure about the lightweight materials being broken. I seem to remember my cooldowns were longer when I took off the lightweight materials. I was using a Geth engineer with a GPS and GPSMG, with the only difference being the lightweight materials.


It actually works for the Geth SMG.

It just doesn't work for any other SMG right now.

#79
Pinkeye60

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The hurricane is now viable for my AJ now. Highest damage out of all my smgs, manageable recoil, and quite light. Just gave it a quick test and the recoil is much better. It still goes verticle when you hold down the trigger but not as fast and you only have to hold aim down a little to counter it.

#80
Yajuu Omoi

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Cyonan wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Uh, no.
Cooldown means how long you wait till you a can re-activate a power. try using your SAME spec'd character with a +200% cooldown, you'll notice you can go in and out of cover a LOT faster.
Thats the point of cooldown...cooling down after using a power...waiting to re-activate it...


Cooldowns that have a duration get a shorter cooldown if you cancel it early, in this case I am doing so by firing.

Seriously, go put -200% weight on an infiltrator, cloak and immediately fire, you don't even need to wait for your character to turn invisible, just fire. You'll get a 3 second cooldown rather than the 22 or so that the skill tree says.


Seriously. I have. Geth Infil, Geth Plasma, and Widow, just for fun. the cooldown after i shot therefore cancleing the duration was WAY longer than three seconds.
I've also used an Infil with the Mantis, at +156% shot and canceled the duration, within a few seconds i was cloaked again.
Cooldown is ALWAYS affected by weight. Period.

#81
Yajuu Omoi

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ReflectedRed wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Iodine wrote...

there are weapons to work toward as a goal/reward, but they aren't going to turn you into a multiplayer god automatically if you happen to get lucky with a random unlock on your first pack. They just need to iron out the balance issues and mechanics, and it will at least be tolerable for both ME1 and ME2 system fans.


Exactly, I simply think that the more rare the weapon, the more desirable the "extra" effects of said weapon should be, not godly good, but something to make the Preditor X and the Phalanx X Stand on equal ground...without having the same stats.
I think they did well with the Widow vs Mantis though. The damage it appropriate, and the widows armor piercing balances with the weight...till you get them both to level X...then the damamge is the same and a simple piercing mod make the Mantis X suddenly better than the Widow X... T.T


Nope, Widow X deals more damage than Mantis X. Damage goes further than the bar shows
https://docs.google....bWc&output=html 


That is true, but on a pure health enemy...it doesn't matter, they all die, even shieldsless enemies, all dies. so the only advantage the widow has at that point it the damage to armor and piercing...which is almost evened out with the piercing mod...noit COMPLETELY, but mostly, so the weight ends up throwing it all off-balance, thats all i'm sayin.

Modifié par Yajuu Omoi, 25 avril 2012 - 06:41 .


#82
Trakarg

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DSxCallOfBooty- wrote...

maxtofunator wrote...

They can't fix glithces WITHOUT an update to the game.
I don't know how so many people don't see that.
To fix weapon damage, it's not that hard to just go in and change numbers on the variables, and is done all the time.
Also, they didn't actually do much to singularity except for ruin it in most people's opinion(if they chose that option at rank 6) and the Katana isn't supposed to be great, it's the beginner shotgun for a reason.


See my above response as to why the Katana needs a buff now, it was previously competitive with the other shotguns, but is now completely worthless.  How did they ruin Singularity?  Seems like the patch should make it much more viable, although still not extremely strong.

I realise they can't fix glitches without a full update, but why can't they just go ahead and release one?  If Bioware not being able to address their issues is a result of them not wanting to patch the game, then that's a problem.  I anticipate it's [the ULM glitch/Kroguard Rage glitch] something they're actively working on, but can't fix quite yet.


The katana is a beginner shotgun.  It's meant to be weaker.

#83
Elyrun

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Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Seriously. I have. Geth Infil, Geth Plasma, and Widow, just for fun. the cooldown after i shot therefore cancleing the duration was WAY longer than three seconds.
I've also used an Infil with the Mantis, at +156% shot and canceled the duration, within a few seconds i was cloaked again.
Cooldown is ALWAYS affected by weight. Period.


I dunno, another Claymore Infiltrator here, no matter whether I have another gun or not my cooldown and reload are always done at pretty much the same time.

Modifié par Elyrun, 25 avril 2012 - 06:43 .


#84
Cyonan

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Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Seriously. I have. Geth Infil, Geth Plasma, and Widow, just for fun. the cooldown after i shot therefore cancleing the duration was WAY longer than three seconds.
I've also used an Infil with the Mantis, at +156% shot and canceled the duration, within a few seconds i was cloaked again.
Cooldown is ALWAYS affected by weight. Period.


Then perhaps you can explain how both my Claymore or my Widow(Or both at the same time) results in me being able to cloak every 3 seconds unless I'm spending the full time in cloak(Which I only need to do for capping objectives)?

You get reduced cooldown based on how long you spend in Cloak. If you spend 50% you get 50% of the cooldown, if you spend no time you get the minimum, which is 3 seconds. That's just how cloak works, it's confirmed as fact. You can argue against it, but you'll be wrong.

#85
Sacrificial Bias

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DSxCallOfBooty- wrote...

Sacrificial Bias wrote...

My opinion? They seem to be doing weapon balances based on their own ideas while utterly ignoring the players opinions. The Incisor should have been buffed 3 weeks ago. The Saber needs to have a DPS of over 706 at rank I in order to not completely SUCK when compared to a Mattock I, which has a DPS of 706 at rank I(yes kids, that's more than the Saber at rank X, pretty pathetic for an ultra rare weapon right?).

From what I could gather, the Bioware team themselves play MP. I would assume that they base the changes on their MP experience and not the some thousands of other players. Cuz you know, we suck at MP and they rule. No, I'm not sure they're listening to feedback at all. If the Incisor was buffed at all it was because one of them coincidentally agreed with the players on something with no prior knowledge that people thought it sucked. At long last, after people having b****ed about the damn thing since release.


Saber does need a higher DPS, although I think the Mattock's should be higher overall.  Maybe decrease the Mattock's accuracy by a little bit so that the Saber has an advantage at range, while also giving either a damage boost or ROF upgrade to the Saber.  New Incisor buff gives it a higher DPS than the Raptor or BW, although the recoil is still too high to be effective.

I hate to say it, but the second part of your response was pretty bad.  Of course Bioware employees play ME3, and make adjustments based on their own experiences, but at the same time they also pay more attention than you might expect to what people have to say on the forums.  Technically, insulting Bioware employees would get you booted from the BSN, so I don't think I'd publically insult them again on here if I were you.  ;)

How am I insulting them?  I'm just implying that they may not really be listening at all unless the uproar is at a high enough level like with the ME3 ending.

As well, the rule only covers "personal attacks".  I have not attacked anyone, nor am I making it personal.

It'll be a sad day for freedom of speech when I'm no longer allowed to criticize other people.

#86
Yajuu Omoi

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Cyonan wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Seriously. I have. Geth Infil, Geth Plasma, and Widow, just for fun. the cooldown after i shot therefore cancleing the duration was WAY longer than three seconds.
I've also used an Infil with the Mantis, at +156% shot and canceled the duration, within a few seconds i was cloaked again.
Cooldown is ALWAYS affected by weight. Period.


Then perhaps you can explain how both my Claymore or my Widow(Or both at the same time) results in me being able to cloak every 3 seconds unless I'm spending the full time in cloak(Which I only need to do for capping objectives)?

You get reduced cooldown based on how long you spend in Cloak. If you spend 50% you get 50% of the cooldown, if you spend no time you get the minimum, which is 3 seconds. That's just how cloak works, it's confirmed as fact. You can argue against it, but you'll be wrong.


Then show me the evidence.
Till you can show me that your word is rule. I'll go by what i experience EVERYTIME i play the game.

#87
Elyrun

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As you seem to be the only person experiencing this, I think you're the one who has to try and prove something.

#88
Cyonan

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Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Then show me the evidence.
Till you can show me that your word is rule. I'll go by what i experience EVERYTIME i play the game.


My evidence is in telling you to go try it right now and fire right away, then count how many seconds it takes for your Cloak to come off cooldown. It may not be EXACTLY 3.00 seconds, but it is going to be damned close.

If it's not roughly 3 seconds, then you either didn't fire right away, or you're lying to me.

#89
Yajuu Omoi

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Elyrun wrote...

As you seem to be the only person experiencing this, I think you're the one who has to try and prove something.

 

No way to prove something to someone who refuses to look at the stats.

Cyonan wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Then show me the evidence.
Till you can show me that your word is rule. I'll go by what i experience EVERYTIME i play the game.


My evidence is in telling you to go try it right now and fire right away, then count how many seconds it takes for your Cloak to come off cooldown. It may not be EXACTLY 3.00 seconds, but it is going to be damned close.

If it's not roughly 3 seconds, then you either didn't fire right away, or you're lying to me.


I do it constantly in-game.
Look at the stats, a game mechanic won't behave different;y just because you say it will. a cooldown is set by your growth in the power and the overall weight of your weapons.

#90
Atheosis

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Just went and tested the Incisor on a Turian and it's marginally usable now, on that one race. Wish they would realize the problem with that gun is as much recoil as it is damage.

#91
ReflectedRed

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Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Seriously. I have. Geth Infil, Geth Plasma, and Widow, just for fun. the cooldown after i shot therefore cancleing the duration was WAY longer than three seconds.
I've also used an Infil with the Mantis, at +156% shot and canceled the duration, within a few seconds i was cloaked again.
Cooldown is ALWAYS affected by weight. Period.


Then perhaps you can explain how both my Claymore or my Widow(Or both at the same time) results in me being able to cloak every 3 seconds unless I'm spending the full time in cloak(Which I only need to do for capping objectives)?

You get reduced cooldown based on how long you spend in Cloak. If you spend 50% you get 50% of the cooldown, if you spend no time you get the minimum, which is 3 seconds. That's just how cloak works, it's confirmed as fact. You can argue against it, but you'll be wrong.


Then show me the evidence.
Till you can show me that your word is rule. I'll go by what i experience EVERYTIME i play the game.


What others think and I bet they know what they are talking about:

http://social.biowar.../index/11519840 

See? See? You sir are the only one who thinks that way.

#92
Cyonan

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Yajuu Omoi wrote...
I do it constantly in-game.
Look at the stats, a game mechanic won't behave different;y just because you say it will. a cooldown is set by your growth in the power and the overall weight of your weapons.


I think I know more about stats than the average person here(Hell in between typing these posts I'm busy calculating the sustained dps of every weapon in the game since the spreadsheet only shows burst). Stats are frequently wrong when put into practice, especially when the devs told it to behave differently.

A simple test that you refuse to do that would take you 30 seconds would show you that everyone else on this forum is right and you're the one in the wrong about this specific mechanic.

#93
Elyrun

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Yajuu Omoi wrote...

I do it constantly in-game.
Look at the stats, a game mechanic won't behave different;y just because you say it will. a cooldown is set by your growth in the power and the overall weight of your weapons.


www.youtube.com/watch

Here you go. Now, goodbye.

Modifié par Elyrun, 25 avril 2012 - 07:09 .


#94
Yajuu Omoi

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ReflectedRed wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Seriously. I have. Geth Infil, Geth Plasma, and Widow, just for fun. the cooldown after i shot therefore cancleing the duration was WAY longer than three seconds.
I've also used an Infil with the Mantis, at +156% shot and canceled the duration, within a few seconds i was cloaked again.
Cooldown is ALWAYS affected by weight. Period.


Then perhaps you can explain how both my Claymore or my Widow(Or both at the same time) results in me being able to cloak every 3 seconds unless I'm spending the full time in cloak(Which I only need to do for capping objectives)?

You get reduced cooldown based on how long you spend in Cloak. If you spend 50% you get 50% of the cooldown, if you spend no time you get the minimum, which is 3 seconds. That's just how cloak works, it's confirmed as fact. You can argue against it, but you'll be wrong.


Then show me the evidence.
Till you can show me that your word is rule. I'll go by what i experience EVERYTIME i play the game.


What others think and I bet they know what they are talking about:

http://social.biowar.../index/11519840 

See? See? You sir are the only one who thinks that way.

^ That? THAT is significant evidence for me to consider whether or not i am in fact wrong...i now doubt i am correct.
I must now to a LOT of investigating to find out why i am not experiencing the same cooldown as you say happens...
I am wrong. :crying:

#95
GroverA125

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Yajuu Omoi wrote...

ReflectedRed wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Iodine wrote...

there are weapons to work toward as a goal/reward, but they aren't going to turn you into a multiplayer god automatically if you happen to get lucky with a random unlock on your first pack. They just need to iron out the balance issues and mechanics, and it will at least be tolerable for both ME1 and ME2 system fans.


Exactly, I simply think that the more rare the weapon, the more desirable the "extra" effects of said weapon should be, not godly good, but something to make the Preditor X and the Phalanx X Stand on equal ground...without having the same stats.
I think they did well with the Widow vs Mantis though. The damage it appropriate, and the widows armor piercing balances with the weight...till you get them both to level X...then the damamge is the same and a simple piercing mod make the Mantis X suddenly better than the Widow X... T.T


Nope, Widow X deals more damage than Mantis X. Damage goes further than the bar shows
https://docs.google....bWc&output=html 


That is true, but on a pure health enemy...it doesn't matter, they all die, even shieldsless enemies, all dies. so the only advantage the widow has at that point it the damage to armor and piercing...which is almost evened out with the piercing mod...noit COMPLETELY, but mostly, so the weight ends up throwing it all off-balance, thats all i'm sayin.


Exactly, the weight is only one factor in the choice between them. No matter how you look at it, the mantis is a different role. It's designed to be anti-infantry and light armor, the widow is designed to be anti-materiel. The mantis, being designed for a "weaker" role, has less damage per shot, but a lower weight and an impressive amount of spare ammo when compared to the widow. Spare ammo is a more important part of a weapon than people realise, having to move every minute because the gun is empty lowers effectiveness, and you have to think that while the widow user is running off to find some ammo, the mantis user is still putting his power down on targets, both small and armored.

In other words, if you look at the DPM (Damage Per Match) of the mantis and the DPM of the widow, you'll find that they are actually close, and in some cases the mantis will be higher, primarily because he can last twice as long before needing a reload, hence why it's better at anti-infantry. With anti-infantry, you're still going to kill the target in the same number of shots, which means a widow user cannot kill as many targets as a mantis can overall, both are tied in all except power speed (which with only one weapon or a light backup is not really relevant, admittedly) and time spent getting ammo. Once again, it's all down to preference and role selection. An infiltrator may still use the mantis when he has a widow and be good, but the widow is a similar, but not identical method of playing.

Anywho, if I'm using an infiltrator, I'll go for the mantis over the widow, a heavy rifle is a danger, as once they get into CQB, every second, shot and power counts. I'll use the widow if I don't need to worry about a sidearm or CQB targets.

#96
Yajuu Omoi

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Elyrun wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

I do it constantly in-game.
Look at the stats, a game mechanic won't behave different;y just because you say it will. a cooldown is set by your growth in the power and the overall weight of your weapons.


www.youtube.com/watch

Here you go. Now, goodbye.


But THAT is NOT evidence, that is a sped up vid. 
Nice try.

#97
Lycidas

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Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Elyrun wrote...

As you seem to be the only person experiencing this, I think you're the one who has to try and prove something.



No way to prove something to someone who refuses to look at the stats.

Dude honestly you're wrong here. TC's cooldown is based on how long you stay cloaked. If you cancel cloak right away it's 3 sec.

#98
ReflectedRed

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[/quote]
^ That? THAT is significant evidence for me to consider whether or not i am in fact wrong...i now doubt i am correct.
I must now to a LOT of investigating to find out why i am not experiencing the same cooldown as you say happens...
I am wrong. :crying:

[/quote]

Thats poor, but searching in forums is hard, cant find anything other than opinions, tho someone just linked video, so watch. I still know how things work even if I cant always find proof to ppl who doubt just about anything other ppl say.

Modifié par ReflectedRed, 25 avril 2012 - 07:19 .


#99
Yajuu Omoi

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GroverA125 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

ReflectedRed wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Iodine wrote...

there are weapons to work toward as a goal/reward, but they aren't going to turn you into a multiplayer god automatically if you happen to get lucky with a random unlock on your first pack. They just need to iron out the balance issues and mechanics, and it will at least be tolerable for both ME1 and ME2 system fans.


Exactly, I simply think that the more rare the weapon, the more desirable the "extra" effects of said weapon should be, not godly good, but something to make the Preditor X and the Phalanx X Stand on equal ground...without having the same stats.
I think they did well with the Widow vs Mantis though. The damage it appropriate, and the widows armor piercing balances with the weight...till you get them both to level X...then the damamge is the same and a simple piercing mod make the Mantis X suddenly better than the Widow X... T.T


Nope, Widow X deals more damage than Mantis X. Damage goes further than the bar shows
https://docs.google....bWc&output=html 


That is true, but on a pure health enemy...it doesn't matter, they all die, even shieldsless enemies, all dies. so the only advantage the widow has at that point it the damage to armor and piercing...which is almost evened out with the piercing mod...noit COMPLETELY, but mostly, so the weight ends up throwing it all off-balance, thats all i'm sayin.


Exactly, the weight is only one factor in the choice between them. No matter how you look at it, the mantis is a different role. It's designed to be anti-infantry and light armor, the widow is designed to be anti-materiel. The mantis, being designed for a "weaker" role, has less damage per shot, but a lower weight and an impressive amount of spare ammo when compared to the widow. Spare ammo is a more important part of a weapon than people realise, having to move every minute because the gun is empty lowers effectiveness, and you have to think that while the widow user is running off to find some ammo, the mantis user is still putting his power down on targets, both small and armored.

In other words, if you look at the DPM (Damage Per Match) of the mantis and the DPM of the widow, you'll find that they are actually close, and in some cases the mantis will be higher, primarily because he can last twice as long before needing a reload, hence why it's better at anti-infantry. With anti-infantry, you're still going to kill the target in the same number of shots, which means a widow user cannot kill as many targets as a mantis can overall, both are tied in all except power speed (which with only one weapon or a light backup is not really relevant, admittedly) and time spent getting ammo. Once again, it's all down to preference and role selection. An infiltrator may still use the mantis when he has a widow and be good, but the widow is a similar, but not identical method of playing.

Anywho, if I'm using an infiltrator, I'll go for the mantis over the widow, a heavy rifle is a danger, as once they get into CQB, every second, shot and power counts. I'll use the widow if I don't need to worry about a sidearm or CQB targets.


Thats what i mean...the Widow should have a larger advantage when it comes to armor and piercing when vs the mantis, the mantis can cut down infantry, but still dole out aganst a brute the same as the widow...thats the unbalanced bit i'm refering to.

#100
Elyrun

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Yajuu Omoi wrote...

But THAT is NOT evidence, that is a sped up vid. 
Nice try.


So?

Even if it's sped up in a couple spots for a few second at a time, every cloak -> shoot without a reload interrupt has the reload and cooldown done at the same time, or very very close, while the longer cloak times have longer recharge than reload times.

Modifié par Elyrun, 25 avril 2012 - 07:19 .