15 réponses à ce sujet

[Naglfarr]

Hi all,

I'm just getting through the game with my mage, Morrigan, Alistair (Tank) und Leliana (Bow). The game is fairly easy at the moment, as I just have to taunt the enemies to Alistair and the Force Field him. Then my main + Morrigan will tear everything apart with AE. Leliana is only needed for chests and stealing (sadly..).

Well, for my second walkthrough I want to focus on a more melee build party and try the "hard" difficulty. Furthermore, I want to stick to the NPCs I haven't used now. Meaning Wynne as Heal/Arcane Warrior at 14 and Morrigan for all the mage stuff (mainly buffing the melees).

Now the question - is a DW warrior viable? Or is it just better to get a DW rogue? Of course I need to make this decision to finally whether to include Sten/Oghren or Zevran (as a backstabber) in my party. As I don't like slow weapons, 2H is not an option.

Let me make this clear - I know this is not a competitive online game where you have to play characters that are better than others. If I would be referring to those things, I would just create an AW/BM with Morrigan/Wynne and Leliana. I just don't like to play gimped characters. :innocent:

[T1l]

Rogue. I'll dig up the thread with builds and equipment.

Edit: Here. It's a huge thread, but everything in there is worth the time it takes to read.

Modifié par T1l, 07 décembre 2009 - 05:00 .

[Seneva]

as I just have to taunt the enemies to Alistair and the Force Field him

And that is why there are alot of people want FF to be nerfed to the ground. Or atleast script enemies so taht they will swap targets when they're current target is immune to everyone.



Try again but then without FF.

[Taritu]

Either is fine. If you want someone who can tank if necessary and who doesn't need positional finickry, go warrior. If you want the highest dps but are willing to do positional finickry play a rogue. With 2 mages in your party, you're not going to have any real trouble even on hard, anyway.

[Taritu]

Seneva wrote...

as I just have to taunt the enemies to Alistair and the Force Field him

And that is why there are alot of people want FF to be nerfed to the ground. Or atleast script enemies so taht they will swap targets when they're current target is immune to everyone.

Try again but then without FF.

I just don't use force field.  But yes, at the least mobs need to ignore FF'd characters. 

[qoobah]

My rogue duelist/assasin was more than a viable avoidance based offtank with really solid damage in melee. I set out to create an agility and avoidance based warrior rather than someone roguelike, so I didn't invest in rogue talents apart from getting Evasion and Coup de Grace. All other skillpoints went into DW tree, maxing duelist and assasin specs, and then reminder into archery for Arrow of Slaying, which at level 25 became absurdly powerful (cue oneshotting emmisaries with 450+ crits...).



I was in the same position, namely how to best create a dexterity and not-getting-hit instead of I-wear-pl8-m8 type of figher, and to that end rogue+duelist worked really well for me. Get Dex and Str into high 50's and you rock.

[Matthew Young CT]

Seneva wrote...

as I just have to taunt the enemies to Alistair and the Force Field him

And that is why there are alot of people want FF to be nerfed to the ground. Or atleast script enemies so taht they will swap targets when they're current target is immune to everyone.

Try again but then without FF.

it doesnt need to be nerfed, the ai just needs to not attack immortal enemies.

[Naglfarr]

Thanks for your help here, I will take a look at the linked thread.



Regarding FF - yeah, I know it's a little bit overpowered. But I only have it on one mage, meaning that the cooldown is higher than the effect. At least it's something... and playing without a designated healer and no group heal is kind of difficult if you are not using Force Field and face 15 enemies at once (i.e. Denerim).



I have one simple rule - I never cheat or use exploits (ok I used a hex editor to make my fighters in Pool of Radiance on my C64 immortal, but that was a looooooooooong time ago *g*). But if the game has balance problems... well, as I mentioned I really don't like to gimp my characters so I use what is available.. regardless of any balance issues.

[Seneva]

It was never my intention to question your gamestyle. Taunt and FF used together is (and this is entirely my opinion) ridiculously overpowered

[nuculerman]

rogue is better single target DPS, warrior is better AoE dps.  Rogue takes more micromanaging, warrior consists of running in, throwing taunt, getting surrounded, dual sweep, whirlwind, killing everything that just surrounded you with those two attacks, then throwing up momentum and auto attacking your way through the rest of the enemies.

Personally I find DW warrior to be more "over powered" in a group just because my DW warrior crits with whirlwhind like 80% of the time which means CoC+Whirlwind=4 instant kills.  

DW is nice because you'll do more damage than a 2H warrior and have better defense than many sword/shield builds.  Your only real downfall is that you don't have knockback immunity like the other two builds do.  The upside is that you typically kill everything before you need it anyway.  And my DW warrior duo'ed Flemeth on nightmare with Wynne yesterday so I'm going to have to say he's a pretty strong build.

I don't suggest using whirlwind all that often with a rogue because it will draw aggro and your rogue won't be able to take it until much higher levels with good dex and evasion.  But even still you won't be putting much into str so your DW is going to be more durable.  Plus, momentum+perfect striking+berserk+precise striking=insane auto attack damage.  On nightmare I three hit all white enemies.  Meanwhile Sten and Ohgren two hit white enemies and that takes them twice as long as my three hits with momentum up, if not longer. 

Anyway, both classes are incredibly strong and arguably completely broken at high levels.  Not nearly as broken as mages with force field and cone of cold, but still pretty broken.

For the record, if you plan on not having force field on your next playthrough you might want to try normal again for a while.  Force field is an "I win" button and trivializes this game in almost every encounter (if you're using the taunt/force field trick).  

But honestly, if you want an all warrior party, bring Ohgren, Sten and a DW warrior and have Morrigan or Wynne have CoC and Haste.  Everything will die.

[Naglfarr]

Ok, I will just finish my first walkthrough and then decide whether to focus more on single target (Rogue) or on AE damage (DW Warrior). Until now, I only met tons of weak enemies instead of strong boss mobs but maybe this will change for the rest of the game.



From my point of view, FF is not the only ability out off balance. It's just that the combination of long CC (CoC, Crushing Prison etc.) combined with high damage while your targets are controlled, efficient heal spells and the ability to shread everything with massive AE attacks in ONE class that is responsible. Instead of a tank with FF, I can simply use Blizzard/CoC and then spam AE with the available mages to kill everything instantly. Although I agree that the enemy should drop aggro when their targeting is in a FF.



Nevertheless, it's great to hear that both melee classes are viable.

[nuculerman]

no, ff is hardly the only broken mage spell, but force field/taunt is the single most broken spell/talent combo in the game.  If you let your tank hit the enemy a few times with threaten and then throw a taunt, no one will ever stop attacking him/her.  This means mages can spam AoE damage without having to worry about CC to go with it.  And since ff lasts about twice as long as it takes to cast SotC, or a couple of fireballs or inferno... one AoE DPS mage with a tank and taunt/ff combo can breeze through this game on any difficulty level without much effort.  As over powered as CoC is, the same thing can't be said since it's only infinitely reusable on white mobs.  Yellow mobs and bosses will resist a decent amount of time before it recharges to pose a significant threat to your squishy mage.

Another pretty broken spell is blood wound.  Blood wound, mass paralysis and the glyph combo plus any of the AoE damaging spells="I win" button on any difficulty in almost every scenario except big boss fights.  But still, that takes a while to get.  You could argue almost every class is over powered at level 16 and higher if built correctly. But with ff/taunt a mage can be way over powered at like level 8. 

[ogreballerina2]

The DPS charts are great...how to max/min characters.



But it doesn't tell the whole story...



How survivable is that particular set-up ?

Example rogues are usually behind enemies...which puts them in line of fire for AOE spells.

What then..?

Most of the examples shown are smurf builds and not roleplaying builds and most of the best stuff doesn't come into late game...so what about the mean time?

Sure you can have an awesome build...but usually by that time the game is almost over.



Just roleplay ( medium difficulty ) and any build you make will be fine...

[Gamer-erBIO]

I like Warriors, mainly dual wielding warriors, 2 longswords and some tank armor is a house.

[nuculerman]

Gamer-erBIO wrote...

I like Warriors, mainly dual wielding warriors, 2 longswords and some tank armor is a house.

wades superior dragonsbane plate + topsider's honor + verhalle = SEXY.  Everything is red.  I love it.  Plus you get six rune slots and ridiculous damage.

[T0rin3]

The good thing about DW builds is that important items can be acquired relatively early, and the mid-late game items are more icing on the cake. The bread and butter of DW builds is Momentum, and you can get that very very early, usually always before you finish the Origin story. Practically all of the important character development for DW chars occurs before mid-game, so there should be no issue actually playing a min-maxed DW build.