444 réponses à ce sujet

[tractrpl]

Irishfafnir wrote...

Read the letter.

Look should people call the police or whatever when they see wrong doing? Sure

Should states be morally obligated to intervene when another state is involved in moral wrong doing? Not always

I agree. Now perhaps me using Morgenthau was a bad example. My point was not about nation actions, but personal actions. What Morgenthau was talking about wasn't accusing state inaction, but the actions of individuals to block things from happening. That's a personal action, not a state action, even though it has national importance.

This was my point. It had nothing to do with nations, but personal issues. If you see someone doing something evil, you should do something about it if at all possible. And if you can't do anything right at that second, then do something as soon as you can.

[tractrpl]

mauro2222 wrote...

Lol, what's wrong with public health care?

You must not be an American

[Irishfafnir]

tractrpl wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Lol, what's wrong with public health care?

You must not be an American

Some of the European nations are doing pretty drastic cuts to public healthcare. GB being the big example

[Irishfafnir]

tractrpl wrote...

Irishfafnir wrote...

Read the letter.

Look should people call the police or whatever when they see wrong doing? Sure

Should states be morally obligated to intervene when another state is involved in moral wrong doing? Not always

I agree. Now perhaps me using Morgenthau was a bad example. My point was not about nation actions, but personal actions. What Morgenthau was talking about wasn't accusing state inaction, but the actions of individuals to block things from happening. That's a personal action, not a state action, even though it has national importance.

This was my point. It had nothing to do with nations, but personal issues. If you see someone doing something evil, you should do something about it if at all possible. And if you can't do anything right at that second, then do something as soon as you can.

If it endangers your own life or your family's life you have no moral obligation.

See the White Rose movement- Various German college students roseup against the regime, many of them were killed. 

BUt yea you should call the police if someone is committing a crime, and you should say something if you see someone getting bullied- especially given the astounding amount of suicides by nullied high schoolers

[tractrpl]

For those Europeans out there, America does not have a universal public healthcare. Strange, I know. For more information, read about it on the internet.

[Irishfafnir]

tractrpl wrote...

For those Europeans out there, America does not have a universal public healthcare. Strange, I know. For more information, read about it on the internet.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the non Nordic western european countries abandon the public healthcare system. 

And if not outright abando certainly make private healthcare more appealing

Modifié par Irishfafnir, 28 avril 2012 - 10:44 .

[tractrpl]

Irishfafnir wrote...

If it endangers your own life or your family's life you have no moral obligation.

See the White Rose movement- Various German college students roseup against the regime, many of them were killed. 

BUt yea you should call the police if someone is committing a crime, and you should say something if you see someone getting bullied- especially given the astounding amount of suicides by nullied high schoolers

Agreed and agreed. That all falls under "do something as soon as you're able" clause that I mentioned.

As far as the original point, it has to do with that comment some members of my family said (and at least one coworker) regarding people that voted for Obama should be expelled and/or shot (note, they're not talking about immigrants, just any Obama supporter). I do not agree with all of Obama's policies, and I agreed with less of Bush's, but I would never say that people that vote for candidate X should be shot or expelled from the country. This is what I was talking about. If someone says something like that, to me, that is evil, and something should be done about it. I told that aunt what I thought, as I did that coworker. I believe that venomous talk and attitudes like that are corrosive to our country. We should be civil, and engage in open discourse.

[tractrpl]

Irishfafnir wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

For those Europeans out there, America does not have a universal public healthcare. Strange, I know. For more information, read about it on the internet.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the non Nordic western european countries abandon the public healthcare system. 

I would be. It would be like abandoning Social Security. If it's done, it would cause extremely volatile civil unrest. Not a good thing.

[Irishfafnir]

tractrpl wrote...

Irishfafnir wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

For those Europeans out there, America does not have a universal public healthcare. Strange, I know. For more information, read about it on the internet.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the non Nordic western european countries abandon the public healthcare system. 

I would be. It would be like abandoning Social Security. If it's done, it would cause extremely volatile civil unrest. Not a good thing.

20 Billion dollars in Cuts to GB NHS, 
25% unemployment in Spain


Somethings gotta give;)

[tractrpl]

Irishfafnir wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

Irishfafnir wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

For those Europeans out there, America does not have a universal public healthcare. Strange, I know. For more information, read about it on the internet.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the non Nordic western european countries abandon the public healthcare system. 

I would be. It would be like abandoning Social Security. If it's done, it would cause extremely volatile civil unrest. Not a good thing.

20 Billion dollars in Cuts to GB NHS, 
25% unemployment in Spain


Somethings gotta give;)

According to my sources, they were actually in surplus until the recession (arguably depression in Spain's case). So it remains to be seen.

[Irishfafnir]

tractrpl wrote...

Irishfafnir wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

Irishfafnir wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

For those Europeans out there, America does not have a universal public healthcare. Strange, I know. For more information, read about it on the internet.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the non Nordic western european countries abandon the public healthcare system. 

I would be. It would be like abandoning Social Security. If it's done, it would cause extremely volatile civil unrest. Not a good thing.

20 Billion dollars in Cuts to GB NHS, 
25% unemployment in Spain


Somethings gotta give;)

According to my sources, they were actually in surplus until the recession (arguably depression in Spain's case). So it remains to be seen.

25% unemployment is a full blown depression thats higher then it was in the US in the 30's

[tractrpl]

Hmmm. Stating the obvious here, a country is in deficit if its tax revenue is less than its expenditures (duh!). Well, the United States spends more on its military compared to other countries, but it is less in debt (proportionally). The US could fix this by trimming on spending (social and military) and raising taxes. Trimming spending drastically could be disastrous, and raising taxes drastically could be too. So if you just raise taxes just a smidgin, and then cut taxes also by a smidgin, we could close the gap. However, I don't know what to do in Europe's case. They would need to cut a whole lot of social programs and they're already at near tax limit. People are gonna be mad, oh boy. It won't be fun.

[Irishfafnir]

tractrpl wrote...

Hmmm. Stating the obvious here, a country is in deficit if its tax revenue is less than its expenditures (duh!). Well, the United States spends more on its military compared to other countries, but it is less in debt (proportionally). The US could fix this by trimming on spending (social and military) and raising taxes. Trimming spending drastically could be disastrous, and raising taxes drastically could be too. So if you just raise taxes just a smidgin, and then cut taxes also by a smidgin, we could close the gap. However, I don't know what to do in Europe's case. They would need to cut a whole lot of social programs and they're already at near tax limit. People are gonna be mad, oh boy. It won't be fun.

Our debt is less proportional to Portugal/Greece who spend about 5 times more then they bring in, their problem is probably unsolvable. Which is why Greece is probably going to need a third bailout, and is never going to be able to payback the bailout money. 

We spend about twice as much as we make. Which is a somewhat managable problem. I don't think the solution is to cut the military they just ate a massive budget cut around 500 billion dollars, that is going to eliminate alot of our ground forces. For starters we have to get government spending under control starting next year we are going to be spending more on our national debt interest then on the military ( 30% of that interest is accumalated under Obama's presidency). 

Short answer is revenues need to go up and Government spending needs to go down. 

Modifié par Irishfafnir, 28 avril 2012 - 11:15 .

[tractrpl]

It's not twice as much, merely about 30%-50% more (according ot the source). Otherwise what you said is true, but expenditure increases are common during a recession, and they began before Obama took office, much in the same way the recession started before Obama took office as well. Here's a chart. It shows that our expenditures and loss in revenue happened simultaneously, as would be expected. Which also makes a bad situation worse. Your spending and income accelerate away from each other. After that, spending dipped, but stablized, however revenue increases greatly, which is good. I think if we go back to the tax code we had under Reagan, Bush I, or Clinton, we should be fine. Also I think the spending will decrease naturally as soon as the economy recovers (less people on unemployment, welfare, etc). If it recovers.

Edit: wait, I read that chart wrong. Expenditures and revenues didn't stabilize, that's what's projected. I think it's false. Spending should drop dramatically assuming the economy recovers, we cut spending, and add a little more taxes. That chart is stupid.

Modifié par tractrpl, 28 avril 2012 - 11:56 .

[tractrpl]

Short answer, even if we don't cut spending we may be okay as long as the economy recovers. If we do end up doing something to close the gap, we'll be okay even through this bad economy, and in prime shape afterwords.

[tractrpl]

 This is a much better chart. Expenses jumped just before Obama took office. They've dipped a tad, but haven't fallen back to where they were yet. Again, I think that will happen naturally if we ever get out of this recession.

[Irishfafnir]

We only lost about 400 billion dollars in revenue, because of the recession. We spend 3-4 times that in deficit spending. Gov't spending will have to come down, I agree that as more people get off wealthfare and food stamps spending should come down ( I don't know about 1.2 trillion dollars in savings though). Not to mention the higher our Debt goes the better chance we have to pay higher interest on our debt to foreign nations( which is why losing our AAA+ rating was a big deal). Not to mention the economy is getting better at about the speed a canyon is carved, yaaa for 2.2% growth

Also- Not blaming Obama for the recession market crashed before his was sworn into office. 

Modifié par Irishfafnir, 29 avril 2012 - 12:12 .

[tractrpl]

The deficit in 2011 is 1.5 trillion. Before in 2007 it was 500 billion, so that's right. This year's deficit should be less, and the year after less, unless we get hit by another true recession (God I hope not). I think implementing the Clinton era tax code and budget we'd be great. We can argue all day if that's thanks to Clinton or due to the Republican congress, but in the end I don't care. We need that system in place right now.

Modifié par tractrpl, 29 avril 2012 - 12:21 .

[Kastrenzo]

I'm pretty sure nationality no longer matters.

Anderson was born in London but clearly does not carry an accent.
It seems that Earth grew so large that people just started moving everywhere.

[tractrpl]

Kastrenzo wrote...

I'm pretty sure nationality no longer matters.

Anderson was born in London but clearly does not carry an accent.
It seems that Earth grew so large that people just started moving everywhere.

Already happening. Visit New York. You'll find gobs of Chinese that barely speak English but have been living there for like a generation. Then visit Hong Kong. I met one white guy there that had been living there since he was born. He was one of the English citizens that called Hong Kong home, and stayed there after the UK transferred sovereignty to the Chinese. There's a crapload of Brits in Hong Kong. One wonders how many of them are like that.

[Irishfafnir]

tractrpl wrote...

The deficit in 2011 is 1.5 trillion. Before in 2007 it was 500 billion, so that's right. This year's deficit should be less, and the year after less, unless we get hit by another true recession (God I hope not). I think implementing the Clinton era tax code and budget we'd be great. We can argue all day if that's thanks to Clinton or due to the Republican congress, but in the end I don't care. We need that system in place right now.

ehh the deficit is 140 billion dollars less then 2011, but I think alot of that credit has to go to the end of the war in Iraq which was costing around 100 billion dollars a year

[mauro2222]

Kastrenzo wrote...

I'm pretty sure nationality no longer matters.

It should not matter.

[Irishfafnir]

tractrpl wrote...

Kastrenzo wrote...

I'm pretty sure nationality no longer matters.

Anderson was born in London but clearly does not carry an accent.
It seems that Earth grew so large that people just started moving everywhere.

Already happening. Visit New York. You'll find gobs of Chinese that barely speak English but have been living there for like a generation. Then visit Hong Kong. I met one white guy there that had been living there since he was born. He was one of the English citizens that called Hong Kong home, and stayed there after the UK transferred sovereignty to the Chinese. There's a crapload of Brits in Hong Kong. One wonders how many of them are like that.

The end of nationalism does not equal a growth in human understanding. Europe is defined less by national boundaries but has seen a rampant growth in foreign resentment ( particularly against muslims, but also against eastern europeans)

Clash of Civilizations - pretty much stated that the future people will align more towards their cultural group then national group. IE "Western"

Modifié par Irishfafnir, 29 avril 2012 - 12:39 .

[Filanwizard]

Why can people just not play the game and enjoy it? Why analyze the origins of the characters this deeply?

[tractrpl]

Irishfafnir wrote...

The end of nationalism does not equal a growth in human understanding. Europe is defined less by national boundaries but has seen a rampant growth in foreign resentment ( particularly against muslims, but also against eastern europeans)

Clash of Civilizations - pretty much stated that the future people will align more towards their cultural group then national group. IE "Western"

Yes and no. It's hard to predict. LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE!!! From my observations, the Chinese are less strict on cultural rules then the Koreans or the Japanese, yet both the latter is able to integrate very well with western relations. I think the Chinese-US split is less about cultural differences and more about a few group of people on one side being greedy. If China can over that authoritarian streak (and they've made lots of progress in the last 20 years), then essentially they'll be no real "clash" of cultures between our nations like there is between ours and muslim cultures currently.