444 réponses à ce sujet

[tractrpl]

Irishfafnir wrote...

We have been the sole Superpower for around 20 years. America has been a major power militarily for about 150 years. Western military has dominated the world for about 350 years or so.

Again I don't think you have a good knowledge of world history. Great Britain was superseded in education and industry by the United States and Germany in the 1870's. They remained a World power until the 1950's and it took two devastating world wars in order to bring them down. And even today Britain is still arguably a major power with the 3rd highest military spending, and the best force projection outside of the United States. 

China has still yet to overtake us in Education or Industry ( although I have no doubt that china's economy will eventually overtake ours I don't think it is a necessarily bad thing), short of a devastating world event I don't see the United States not being a Major Power in the foreseeable future.

Actually, I'm aware of my history. I believe that America occupies the same place on the international scale as Britain did previously. Like Britain, our power is starting to wane, whereas others are starting to rise. I'm looking at where things are heading. If history is any guide, we have a good 50 years before we'll be overtaken by China, perhaps 100.

[aberdash]

tractrpl wrote...

Actually, I'm aware of my history. I believe that America occupies the same place on the international scale as Britain did previously. Like Britain, our power is starting to wane, whereas others are starting to rise. I'm looking at where things are heading. If history is any guide, we have a good 50 years before we'll be overtaken by China, perhaps 100.

China's economy will most likely collapse in the next 50 years. Its economy has a very weak foundation based on build, build, build!

Modifié par aberdash, 27 avril 2012 - 02:11 .

[ashwind]

tractrpl wrote...

Irishfafnir wrote...

We have been the sole Superpower for around 20 years. America has been a major power militarily for about 150 years. Western military has dominated the world for about 350 years or so.

Again I don't think you have a good knowledge of world history. Great Britain was superseded in education and industry by the United States and Germany in the 1870's. They remained a World power until the 1950's and it took two devastating world wars in order to bring them down. And even today Britain is still arguably a major power with the 3rd highest military spending, and the best force projection outside of the United States. 

China has still yet to overtake us in Education or Industry ( although I have no doubt that china's economy will eventually overtake ours I don't think it is a necessarily bad thing), short of a devastating world event I don't see the United States not being a Major Power in the foreseeable future.

Actually, I'm aware of my history. I believe that America occupies the same place on the international scale as Britain did previously. Like Britain, our power is starting to wane, whereas others are starting to rise. I'm looking at where things are heading. If history is any guide, we have a good 50 years before we'll be overtaken by China, perhaps 100.

Given the resources Americans consume and waste with its current economy... if 1.4 billion people are rich enough to waste earth's resources like Americans do in 50 years.... the future is... bleak

Hope the Chinese are more environmentally friendly when they become the largest economy... 

[aberdash]

ashwind wrote...

Given the resources Americans consume and waste with its current economy... if 1.4 billion people are rich enough to waste earth's resources like Americans do in 50 years.... the future is... bleak

Hope the Chinese are more environmentally friendly when they become the largest economy... 

China is building sprawling cities that nobody can afford to live in. I don't see the average Chinese citizen matching the average American for a very long time.

[tractrpl]

aberdash wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

Actually, I'm aware of my history. I believe that America occupies the same place on the international scale as Britain did previously. Like Britain, our power is starting to wane, whereas others are starting to rise. I'm looking at where things are heading. If history is any guide, we have a good 50 years before we'll be overtaken by China, perhaps 100.

China's economy will most likely collapse in the next 50 years. It's economy has a very weak foundation based on build, build, build!

You seem to be forgetting that our own economy was built on the same principles between 90-130 years ago. When we started asserting our dominance, we adapted and adapted again.

China was once the most advanced country in the world. Then they adopted a conservative culture that was convinced of its own superiority, which weakened it. Sound familiar?

[tractrpl]

ashwind wrote...

Given the resources Americans consume and waste with its current economy... if 1.4 billion people are rich enough to waste earth's resources like Americans do in 50 years.... the future is... bleak

Hope the Chinese are more environmentally friendly when they become the largest economy... 

One can only hope. But realistically, even if they become dominant they won't be as land rich as we are, so they'll live a different lifestyle than we do. Look at New Yorkers. They're richer than the average American, but they don't own cars cause cars are a hassle in NYC.

[Irishfafnir]

tractrpl wrote...

Irishfafnir wrote...

We have been the sole Superpower for around 20 years. America has been a major power militarily for about 150 years. Western military has dominated the world for about 350 years or so.

Again I don't think you have a good knowledge of world history. Great Britain was superseded in education and industry by the United States and Germany in the 1870's. They remained a World power until the 1950's and it took two devastating world wars in order to bring them down. And even today Britain is still arguably a major power with the 3rd highest military spending, and the best force projection outside of the United States. 

China has still yet to overtake us in Education or Industry ( although I have no doubt that china's economy will eventually overtake ours I don't think it is a necessarily bad thing), short of a devastating world event I don't see the United States not being a Major Power in the foreseeable future.

Actually, I'm aware of my history. I believe that America occupies the same place on the international scale as Britain did previously. Like Britain, our power is starting to wane, whereas others are starting to rise. I'm looking at where things are heading. If history is any guide, we have a good 50 years before we'll be overtaken by China, perhaps 100.

Yea so we are about to fight two devasting world wars? Because thats what brought the British down not declining industrial power, and a declining educational system. Not to mention America is a much more centralized "empire" then the British ever were. IE: Alaska can't break off and start formulating its own independent policy like the British dominions did.

If you were to take any lessons from the British it is that America is in a much better position in 2012 then the British were  before they lost their empire in the 30's-50's. As well as the fact that although British industry/education waned during the later 19th century they still remained a world power until it by the two largest wars mankind has ever and most likely will ever experience.

Modifié par Irishfafnir, 27 avril 2012 - 02:19 .

[Irishfafnir]

aberdash wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

Actually, I'm aware of my history. I believe that America occupies the same place on the international scale as Britain did previously. Like Britain, our power is starting to wane, whereas others are starting to rise. I'm looking at where things are heading. If history is any guide, we have a good 50 years before we'll be overtaken by China, perhaps 100.

China's economy will most likely collapse in the next 50 years. Its economy has a very weak foundation based on build, build, build!

There is alot of fear that Chinas housing market will collapse, they are also increasinly suspectable to rise in prices of natural resources.

[Legion64]

I HAVE HIGH HOPE FOR FATHER CHINA! YES VERY DO! VERY DO!

[Irishfafnir]

tractrpl wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Given the resources Americans consume and waste with its current economy... if 1.4 billion people are rich enough to waste earth's resources like Americans do in 50 years.... the future is... bleak

Hope the Chinese are more environmentally friendly when they become the largest economy... 

One can only hope. But realistically, even if they become dominant they won't be as land rich as we are, so they'll live a different lifestyle than we do. Look at New Yorkers. They're richer than the average American, but they don't own cars cause cars are a hassle in NYC.

China has a horrible environmental record. Single largest contributor to green house gases. Should look at the condition of many of their rivers near industrial centers.

New Yorkers don't own cars because they live in the most expensive piece of land in the world. Space is at a premium, limiting car ownership. Bad comparison. China fastest growing automobile market in the world. 

Modifié par Irishfafnir, 27 avril 2012 - 02:23 .

[Foxhound2121]

tractrpl wrote...



Stereotypes? No. I'm concerned more about you conviction of America's eternal superiority.

Made in China means nothing. Designed in China means more. I was talking about technological advances made in Taiwain. They are a technological powerhouse, yet merely 20 years ago they were the same as China, nothing more than a cheap labor farm. If Taiwan could do it, then China could too. Many things about Taiwan were said about China, that they could never become a democracy, that they'd always be just a supply of cheap labor, but they were wrong. Even though they're bigger, that doesn't mean they couldn't do it.

That also doesn't mean their going to become the next hegemony. Those two claims are not guaranteed mutually.

Where is this conviction then? Show it to me. Somehow you went from China dominating the world to America's superiority and how people supposedly don't value education. Yes, taking some person you met during your life and fitting that person's opinion to an entire country is a stereotype and just grossly unhealthy for you. I am worried you met some very bad people in Oklahoma and now you think the entire country is your back yard.

Modifié par Foxhound2121, 27 avril 2012 - 02:25 .

[ashwind]

aberdash wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Given the resources Americans consume and waste with its current economy... if 1.4 billion people are rich enough to waste earth's resources like Americans do in 50 years.... the future is... bleak

Hope the Chinese are more environmentally friendly when they become the largest economy... 

China is building sprawling cities that nobody can afford to live in. I don't see the average Chinese citizen matching the average American for a very long time.

China has about 4x the population. Unable to afford state of the art technology sometimes equates to using less advance technology that consumes more fuel. Even if a third of China is consuming resources like America, they will still need more energy than America. Fuel prices will likely sky rocket because of the super high demand.

Most of China is still undeveloped, each city that raise creates more business opportunities, so with every special economic zone they build, more people are able to afford to live like Americans. If you have been to Shanghai, Guangzhou, etc. You will notice that many of they live just like New Yorkers, just as wasteful and in some cases even more wasteful because of the sudden increase in wealth.

The prestigious kindergarten and pre-schools in Beijing and Shanghai has an admission fee of RMB 30,000 or about USD 4000-5000 and they dont have enough seats for everyone who can afford them. You really have to go to China and see for yourself; experience for yourself and not just rely on media... 

[tractrpl]

Foxhound2121 wrote...

That also doesn't mean their going to become the next hegemony. Those two claims are not guaranteed mutually.

Where is this conviction then? Show it to me. Somehow you went from China dominating the world to America's superiority and how people supposedly don't value education. Yes, taking some person you met during your life and fitting that person's opinion to an entire country is a stereotype and just grossly unhealthy for you. I am worried you met some very bad people in Oklahoma and now you think the entire country is your back yard.

Actually, many of the Oklahomans I've met (my family, my high school classmates) think the entire country is their backyard. For example, my aunt said that people who voted for Obama are un-American and should be kicked out of this country or shot. Sound bigoted enough for you? I wouldn't be worried except for the fact that people with this sort of thinking essentially dominates the politics of one political party in the US.

Modifié par tractrpl, 27 avril 2012 - 02:49 .

[Irishfafnir]

tractrpl wrote...

Foxhound2121 wrote...

That also doesn't mean their going to become the next hegemony. Those two claims are not guaranteed mutually.

Where is this conviction then? Show it to me. Somehow you went from China dominating the world to America's superiority and how people supposedly don't value education. Yes, taking some person you met during your life and fitting that person's opinion to an entire country is a stereotype and just grossly unhealthy for you. I am worried you met some very bad people in Oklahoma and now you think the entire country is your back yard.

Actually, the Oklahomans I've met think the entire country is their backyard. For example, my aunt said that people who voted for Obama are un-American and should be kicked out of this country or shot. Sound bigoted enough for you? I wouldn't be worried except for the fact that people with this sort of thinking essentially dominate the politics of one political party in the US.

lol the sterotypes keep flying. Lets go ahead and get some other stupid sterotypes out there

All Liberals want to kill unwanted children

No Liberals go to church

All conservatives are white, gun owning, men, with little to no college experience

All Americans think they are god's gift to the Earth

You really have to stop saying sterotypical facts that are not true. While the Americans on this forum know you are full of BS, many of the non American viewers may actually think you are telling the truth and this is damaging. 

Modifié par Irishfafnir, 27 avril 2012 - 02:34 .

[tractrpl]

Irishfafnir wrote...

lol the sterotypes keep flying. Lets go ahead and get some other stupid sterotypes out there

All Liberals want to kill unwanted children

No Liberals go to church

All conservatives are white, gun owning, men, with little to no college experience

All Americans think they are god's gift to the Earth

Stereotypes? I told you that's my aunt. From what I've seen this is a pretty typical attitude in the American South. Not all Southerners think this way, but very many of them do.

Obviously, I'm from the South, and I don't think this way. I don't call black people N**** like my grandfather does. I don't spit racial epithets to Chinese. I don't say that America is number 1 and will never fall. But many Americans do think this way. Not every American, but they're common enough to be a concern.

Modifié par tractrpl, 27 avril 2012 - 02:37 .

[Irishfafnir]

" I wouldn't be worried except for the fact that people with this sort of thinking essentially dominates the politics of one political party in the US."

Idiotic and false statement. Fact that California until recently had some of the harshest anti immigrant statutes in the country, while Texas had among some of the most liberal among border states. California is commonly concerned a liberal safe haven with Texas being the heart bed of conservatism yet the realities of the illegal immigration did not reflect your sentiment for a long time.

If you are worried about immigration reform rhetoric being damaging you should be much more concerned with the rise of anti-islamism in Europe then immigration debate in the United States. The rise of the far right in Europe is much more hostile then the immigration debate within the United States.

Also stop calling Ok. the south its not. 

Modifié par Irishfafnir, 27 avril 2012 - 02:40 .

[tractrpl]

Wait wait, typo again, I apologize. I meant to say "Many of the Oklahomans I've met". That's a mistake on my part, I apologize. Correcting now.

[Emzamination]

Too much treasonous talk in this thread

[tractrpl]

Irishfafnir wrote...

" I wouldn't be worried except for the fact that people with this sort of thinking essentially dominates the politics of one political party in the US."

Idiotic and false statement. Fact that California until recently had some of the harshest anti immigrant statutes in the country, while Texas had among some of the most liberal among border states. California is commonly concerned a liberal safe haven with Texas being the heart bed of conservatism yet the realities of the illegal immigration did not reflect your sentiment for a long time.

If you are worried about immigration reform rhetoric being damaging you should be much more concerned with the rise of anti-islamism in Europe then immigration debate in the United States. The rise of the far right in Europe is much more hostile then the immigration debate within the United States.

Also stop calling Ok. the south its not. 

Many people assume California is a liberal haven. This is not true. I lived in Southern California and I never met anyone that wasn't a Republican. Not saying they aren't there, just saying they're few. Historically SoCal has been a Republican Bastion. As far as California immigration laws being "more strict" than Texas, immigration laws are so dynamic that it's hard to measure who's more conservative or liberal in that regard. 

In short, my statement applies. People that think like my aunt and grandfather are shockingly common not only in Oklahoma, but in other places my family has migrated to such as Mississippi, Georgia, Texas, and Louisiana. Everytime I visit places like that I hear essentially the same rhetoric, and those places certainly are the south. Do they all think like that? No, but I wouldn't say it's rare. It's actually frighteningly common.

Modifié par tractrpl, 27 avril 2012 - 02:49 .

[tractrpl]

Emzamination wrote...

Too much treasonous talk in this thread

[Irishfafnir]

tractrpl wrote...

Irishfafnir wrote...

" I wouldn't be worried except for the fact that people with this sort of thinking essentially dominates the politics of one political party in the US."

Idiotic and false statement. Fact that California until recently had some of the harshest anti immigrant statutes in the country, while Texas had among some of the most liberal among border states. California is commonly concerned a liberal safe haven with Texas being the heart bed of conservatism yet the realities of the illegal immigration did not reflect your sentiment for a long time.

If you are worried about immigration reform rhetoric being damaging you should be much more concerned with the rise of anti-islamism in Europe then immigration debate in the United States. The rise of the far right in Europe is much more hostile then the immigration debate within the United States.

Also stop calling Ok. the south its not. 

Many people assume California is a liberal haven. This is not true. I lived in Southern California and I never met anyone that wasn't a Republican. Not saying they aren't there, just saying they're few. Historically SoCal has been a Republican Bastion. As far as California immigration laws being "more strict" than Texas, immigration laws are so dynamic that it's hard to measure who's more conservative or liberal in that regard. 

In short, my statement applies. People that think like my aunt and grandfather are shockingly common not only in Oklahoma, but in other places my family has migrated to such as Mississippi, Georgia, Texas, and Louisiana. Everytime I visit places like that I hear essentially the same rhetoric, and those places certainly are the south. Do they all think like that? No, but I wouldn't say it's rare. It's actually frighteningly common.

Actually judging the strictness of immigration law is disernable, or would you say that Arizona's new immigration laws are impossible to judge? 

You miss my point that anti-illegal immigration legislation is not drawn by party lines, my point was to refute your insuation that the Republican party is dominated by people who are for stricter legislation on illegal immigration. By pointing out the fact that Texas a historically conservative state had a more liberal( meaning progressive not party) policy towards illegal immigration then the State of California which has been historyically liberal ( in the party sense), refutes your assertion that illegal immigration politics are drawn by party affiliation. 

I think it is also important to note that the American rhetoric is largely directed at illegal immigrants rather then European rhetoric which is directed towards legal citizens.

Modifié par Irishfafnir, 27 avril 2012 - 02:59 .

[tractrpl]

ashwind wrote...

aberdash wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Given the resources Americans consume and waste with its current economy... if 1.4 billion people are rich enough to waste earth's resources like Americans do in 50 years.... the future is... bleak

Hope the Chinese are more environmentally friendly when they become the largest economy... 

China is building sprawling cities that nobody can afford to live in. I don't see the average Chinese citizen matching the average American for a very long time.

China has about 4x the population. Unable to afford state of the art technology sometimes equates to using less advance technology that consumes more fuel. Even if a third of China is consuming resources like America, they will still need more energy than America. Fuel prices will likely sky rocket because of the super high demand.

Most of China is still undeveloped, each city that raise creates more business opportunities, so with every special economic zone they build, more people are able to afford to live like Americans. If you have been to Shanghai, Guangzhou, etc. You will notice that many of they live just like New Yorkers, just as wasteful and in some cases even more wasteful because of the sudden increase in wealth.

The prestigious kindergarten and pre-schools in Beijing and Shanghai has an admission fee of RMB 30,000 or about USD 4000-5000 and they dont have enough seats for everyone who can afford them. You really have to go to China and see for yourself; experience for yourself and not just rely on media... 

You sir, inspired me to upload my first youtube video. I filmed a mall, a not so unusual mall in China. Way nicer than any mall in Oklahoma. I've been to several third world countries. I can tell you that many states of the US are essentially the same economically or worse than many third world countries such Oklahoma, parts of rural Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Liousiana, Georgia, Arkansas, etc.

[Irishfafnir]

tractrpl wrote...

ashwind wrote...

aberdash wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Given the resources Americans consume and waste with its current economy... if 1.4 billion people are rich enough to waste earth's resources like Americans do in 50 years.... the future is... bleak

Hope the Chinese are more environmentally friendly when they become the largest economy... 

China is building sprawling cities that nobody can afford to live in. I don't see the average Chinese citizen matching the average American for a very long time.

China has about 4x the population. Unable to afford state of the art technology sometimes equates to using less advance technology that consumes more fuel. Even if a third of China is consuming resources like America, they will still need more energy than America. Fuel prices will likely sky rocket because of the super high demand.

Most of China is still undeveloped, each city that raise creates more business opportunities, so with every special economic zone they build, more people are able to afford to live like Americans. If you have been to Shanghai, Guangzhou, etc. You will notice that many of they live just like New Yorkers, just as wasteful and in some cases even more wasteful because of the sudden increase in wealth.

The prestigious kindergarten and pre-schools in Beijing and Shanghai has an admission fee of RMB 30,000 or about USD 4000-5000 and they dont have enough seats for everyone who can afford them. You really have to go to China and see for yourself; experience for yourself and not just rely on media... 

You sir, inspired me to upload my first youtube video. I filmed a mall, a not so unusual mall in China. Way nicer than any mall in Oklahoma. I've been to several third world countries. I can tell you that many states of the US are essentially the same economically or worse than many third world countries such Oklahoma, parts of rural Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Liousiana, Georgia, Arkansas, etc.

Come on man, have you ever actually been to a third world country. Having been to India I can tell you that the poor here are vastly better off then the poor in third world countries

Modifié par Irishfafnir, 27 avril 2012 - 03:06 .

[tractrpl]

Irishfafnir wrote...

Actually judging the strictness of immigration law is disernable, or would you say that Arizona's new immigration laws are impossible to judge? 

You miss my point that anti-illegal immigration legislation is not drawn by party lines, my point was to refute your insuation that the Republican party is dominated by people who are for stricter legislation on illegal immigration. By pointing out the fact that Texas a historically conservative state had a more liberal( meaning progressive not party) policy towards illegal immigration then the State of California which has been historyically liberal ( in the party sense), refutes your assertion that illegal immigration politics are drawn by party affiliation. 

I think it is also important to note that the American rhetoric is largely directed at illegal immigrants rather then European rhetoric which is directed towards legal citizens.

I wasn't actually talking about immigration. I was talking about how my aunt said that people who voted for Obama should be kicked out of the USA, or shot. I was also talking about how my grandparents use racial epithets towards Chinese and blacks. Many of my family have similar attitudes towards Muslims as those Europeans. I do not think my family as a whole is backwards, it's actually a fairly typical attitude held by a sizeable portion of Oklahomans. If not the majority, then like 1/3 or more of Oklahomans think like my family does. Over half vote Republican even though not all Republicans think like that. However, Oklahoma is not an unusual state in that regard compared to most southern states. Many of the people I've met from the South think just the way my family and my former high school classmates do.

[tractrpl]

Irishfafnir wrote...

Come on man, have you ever actually been to a third world country. Having been to India I can tell you that the poor here are vastly better off then the poor in third world countries

China's not a third world country now? I've also been to Hong Kong, Afghanistan (work there as a military contractor), Kuwait, UAE, Mexico, Colombia and Guatemala.

Please watch that video. I filmed it in Nanjing, China.

Modifié par tractrpl, 27 avril 2012 - 03:10 .