231 réponses à ce sujet

[Gruzmog]

txgoldrush wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Xydorn wrote...

After playing through a second time it is glaringly apparent that many corners were cut. Probably due to time constraints. Not making excuses for Bioware, just pointing out the obvious.

No, it was an artistic decision to provide a better written Shepard.

Sorry but a better wriitten Shep would provide more choices, not less.

Wrong...the more choices you have, the more trade offs you have to give up, the more strain on your resources occur, and there are more things to take into account.

The more choices you have especially in a voice acted game, the shorter the responses, the choppier the voice acting, and the choppier the dialogue. Then you have to take the NPCs response into account, which spreads their dialogue out.

It seems Bioware has put much more into Shepards dialogue with two choices and autodialogue, than with three. DA2 for instance really did struggle with script choppiness and wild tone changes in VA if you mix it up.

Quantity works in sandbox RPGs and games like Planescape Torment which are not VA'd for the most part, does not work in more cinematic RPGs.

Like it did not work in ME2 or 1? I get that you annoyed with all the whiners seeing you're sig. But this argument you are making is just invalid when it comes to mass effect. They have proven in the past they could do it.

They decided not too.

Wether that is is due to to time constrains or an artistic choise, its still not well recieved. If you like it, good for you, but that does not make it ok.

Cinematic RPG's are exactly the type of games were you can do this where as in voice acted sandbopx game it greatly reduces the depth of the game. That why I hated tes4 oblivion and did not touch TESV with a 10-foot pole.

Since we do not meet hundreds of NPC's with dialogue but only a select few, you can and in my opinioin should offer the option for more diverse answers.

[Jadebaby]

txgoldrush wrote...

No, sacrificed in the name of BETTER written protagonists, better voice acting, and far more organic conversations....
Face it, the dialogue wheel forced the writers to write multiple dialogue for almost every line, which in turn waters down the QUALITY of the dialogue.

Oh, like this one?
Skip to 2:00 if it starts at start.

txgoldrush wrote...

The dialogue wheel also breaks up the flow of Meer and Hale because they have to show different tones for each little dialogue option every 3 seconds....the Reneagde is especially bad.

Never played renegade, can see why you do though.

txgoldrush wrote...

Nevermind that the three option system sucked monkey balls...lets see, the generally well written good option, the derp derp nuetral option, and the overplayed Reneagde option. DA2 is even worse with the sarcastic function....

Hater's gonna hate.

txgoldrush wrote...

Now for ME3, the Renegade options have been VASTLY improved where not only do they fit the philosophy, flow much better where Shep can alternate between the two without sounding schizophenic or out of character. Instaead of a dumb neutral option and a overplayed and off the mark renegade, we get a far more subtle Renegade dialogue.

Once again, never played Renegade so can't comment, I do agree it was more subtle... But then isn't everything relating to dialog in ME3?

txgoldrush wrote...

Seriously fans can't see improvements if it hit them in the nose.....they want interactivity for the sake of interactivity, even if it hurts the games writing and voice acting. Ever heard Hale speak in a soft voice in th efirst two games...nope...could be the autodialogue allowing her to do so in ME3.

First of all, there are way too many fans to generalize about what they want or how they see things. Secondly, there's a time and a place for everything. So although there are times where auto-dialog might have been better, it was far less than what they went with.

txgoldrush wrote...

Ironically, fans want Bioware to be more like CD Projeckt, well gues what, the Witcher games have limited dialogue options and tons of autodialogue....LOL

Generalizing again, I'm a fan and have never played witcher games...

Furthermore, I don't think fans want a more advanced dialog system, just one that is on par with the other two games previously.

And no matter what you say, that was sacrificed, either to appeal to new-comers or because of time-constraints... Whatever the case, it makes ME3 more a 3rd person shooter than an RPG.

EDIT: Format

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 25 avril 2012 - 08:48 .

[ShepnTali]

Xydorn wrote...

If I can choose a dialogue option, get up, grab a snack, make a phone call etc, and get back and Shep is still talking, then I am no longer playing the game. I am just watching it. In ME1 and ME2 I at least felt I was actively participating in conversations.

Oh yes, Shepard just wouldn't shut up on too many occasions.

[wright1978]

Xydorn wrote...

If I can choose a dialogue option, get up, grab a snack, make a phone call etc, and get back and Shep is still talking, then I am no longer playing the game. I am just watching it. In ME1 and ME2 I at least felt I was actively participating in conversations.

Yep this one hundred percent.

[grey_wind]

txgoldrush wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

No i don't want Bioware to be like CD Projeckt. I want them to be like Bioware in ME2 where dialogue was generally handled well. Very simple non character stuff was auto dialogued but anything else the dialogue wheel popped up. Also neutral dialogues are essential for actually roleplaying and characterisation. ME3 stripped away player control and suddenly introduced a canon autoshep who completely was out of character with the shep i'd played for 2 games. I'm not watching a movie, i'm playing a character. I don't just want to sit back and wacth the game flow by. I want to be involved in steering direction of character.

wrong...he is far from out of character...a Reneagde Shepard does feel remorse and does have limits and can feel loss. Hell, Jack Bauer is one of the the biggest Renegade agent in fiction, but even he is haunted and feels the impacts of innocent lives lost when he fails.

And really, Javik sees through the Renegade Shep when you first meet him...he is not a resolute badass he thinks he is.

He was never your Shepard anyway.

I can easily say that Renegade Shep hid his demons in the first two games....

Then you've already defeated the purpose of this RPG the way BioWare marketed it.
And just because all that fits your interpretations of Renegade Shepard, that doesn't mean it fits everybody else's, especially when the previous two games let you define him/her to a tee.

[txgoldrush]

Gruzmog wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Xydorn wrote...

After playing through a second time it is glaringly apparent that many corners were cut. Probably due to time constraints. Not making excuses for Bioware, just pointing out the obvious.

No, it was an artistic decision to provide a better written Shepard.

Sorry but a better wriitten Shep would provide more choices, not less.

Wrong...the more choices you have, the more trade offs you have to give up, the more strain on your resources occur, and there are more things to take into account.

The more choices you have especially in a voice acted game, the shorter the responses, the choppier the voice acting, and the choppier the dialogue. Then you have to take the NPCs response into account, which spreads their dialogue out.

It seems Bioware has put much more into Shepards dialogue with two choices and autodialogue, than with three. DA2 for instance really did struggle with script choppiness and wild tone changes in VA if you mix it up.

Quantity works in sandbox RPGs and games like Planescape Torment which are not VA'd for the most part, does not work in more cinematic RPGs.

Like it did not work in ME2 or 1? I get that you annoyed with all the whiners seeing you're sig. But this argument you are making is just invalid when it comes to mass effect. They have proven in the past they could do it.

They decided not too.

Wether that is is due to to time constrains or an artistic choise, its still not well recieved. If you like it, good for you, but that does not make it ok.

Cinematic RPG's are exactly the type of games were you can do this where as in voice acted sandbopx game it greatly reduces the depth of the game. That why I hated tes4 oblivion and did not touch TESV with a 10-foot pole.

Since we do not meet hundreds of NPC's with dialogue but only a select few, you can and in my opinioin should offer the option for more diverse answers.

No, it did not work well with ME1 and ME2...Paragon was fine, Nuetral and Reneagde were lacking, and what if you wanted to alternate between the three, then Shepard becomes a very inconsistant character with wildly changing tones...that is what the problem was in ME1 and ME2 and really a big problem for DA2. No they did not prove anything...ME1 and ME2 were just a stepping stone. Players just do not want to admit that maybe bioware thought it would be far more natural for the conversations to have less dialogue options.

Also don't assume everything is autodialogue, I have seen options account for THREE lines of dialogue. So in a way, a single ME3 option can impact a conversation far more than a single ME1 or ME2 option thats not a final choice.

Its fans that just do not want to concede...they want things their way or its bad. I am for more dialogue options if they can make it more natural, but they can't for ME because of the strong ties to the Paragon Renegade system.

And RPG fans treat the Witcher 2 like the second coming of Christ...it too has autodialogue and limited dialogue choices, and its praised. Same thing with Deus Ex....the real problem is fans want Bioware formula recycled over and over despite any flaws it can have.

Fans just need to learn to concede things.

[Gruzmog]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

As long as "dumbing down and watering down" means "more sales at lower costs" in corporate logic, I doubt that we can expect a change for the better.

Bioware started out as a company of enthusiasts who believed that if they provided excellent games, a market would be found for that product. And they were right.
But their first priority was creating excellent games, not maximizing sales. (Not that they did NOT want to sell as many copies as possible, but you could tell they were seriously invested in their games.)

Nowadays, though, the demands of the market come first, and the games have to take a backseat in relation to that.
So you lower the difficulty, dumb it all down for a bit - and voila! More sales for you.
And in a way, it really is the consumers' fault, because a considerable demographic WANTS games that are less challenging and less intelligent.

heh, yea look what Blizzard did with WoW.... Don't get me wrong the Dungeon finder was great, it made the pain and agony of trying to find a Dungeon run much much easier.

But the gameplay side... wow...  doesn't take any thought to play the game anymore... and as a DPS'er press like 2-3 buttons at most and you are doing top dps....

I remember Vanilla wow days where you had to CC stuff and THINK about who you need to kill first... and what not... but now? AOE kill spam... and end up seeing a flurry of numbers.

Which IMO im now starting to worry about Tera

totally off topic, but
Wow Reached its gameplay apex in the middle of the burning crusade. when you were not forced to pot your eyeballs out anymore and grind for hours just to be able to spend hours on a raid, but had a 2elixir and 1 flask limit.

Raids were fine that way. The normal 5 mans were ok and herioc 5 mans was a challenge. The only fault it had was that some bosses in herioc 5 mans needed resist gear at TBC launch to be beaten (first boss in mana vaults) which people who did not raid before would not have.

But were storytelling and impact of you're actions on the world improved vastly with WofLK and beyond, gameplay wise the game became a bore.

[txgoldrush]

grey_wind wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

No i don't want Bioware to be like CD Projeckt. I want them to be like Bioware in ME2 where dialogue was generally handled well. Very simple non character stuff was auto dialogued but anything else the dialogue wheel popped up. Also neutral dialogues are essential for actually roleplaying and characterisation. ME3 stripped away player control and suddenly introduced a canon autoshep who completely was out of character with the shep i'd played for 2 games. I'm not watching a movie, i'm playing a character. I don't just want to sit back and wacth the game flow by. I want to be involved in steering direction of character.

wrong...he is far from out of character...a Reneagde Shepard does feel remorse and does have limits and can feel loss. Hell, Jack Bauer is one of the the biggest Renegade agent in fiction, but even he is haunted and feels the impacts of innocent lives lost when he fails.

And really, Javik sees through the Renegade Shep when you first meet him...he is not a resolute badass he thinks he is.

He was never your Shepard anyway.

I can easily say that Renegade Shep hid his demons in the first two games....

Then you've already defeated the purpose of this RPG the way BioWare marketed it.
And just because all that fits your interpretations of Renegade Shepard, that doesn't mean it fits everybody else's, especially when the previous two games let you define him/her to a tee.

So can you define Shepard as a vicious convict? No you can't...because Bioware doesn;t give you that option. What if y ou do not want your last name to be Shepard? Than tough. You CAN'T define him to the tee, you are limited to what Bioware gives you,

[Doctoglethorpe]

I don't care so much about the lack of the neutral options or even the vast amounts of auto-dialog. Despite far less choice the dialog was certainly better written and well acted. Its does effect the replayability a bit but its a balanced sacrifice.

But answer me this, how many times do you remember getting good investigate options with lots of subjects to go into. Maybe half a dozen times in the whole game? Maybe thats an underestimation but whatever the number is its far far far less then the previous games. Yeah... thats what I miss the most. Added so much depth to conversations and gave us so much information on the universe we're playing in. That was such an important part of the dialog before for those of us that care about lore and they all but took it away.

Some of the auto-dialog should of been thought out better though to not make Shepard say things that go against the character you've played him/her as in the past. I didn't mind it most of the time but... like the religious ****, what the hell? Didn't I have a conversation with Ashley in ME1 where I implied my atheism? Why do I suddenly believe in heaven and junk? I don't. Shepard doesn't. Not my Shepard. But there's the problem, Shepard doesn't feel as much our character anymore but rather Bioware's. They could of had auto-dialog up the bumhole without doing that if they edited it better to make sure Shepard never says things that potentially conflicts with role playing options we've had in the past without the players choice in the matter.

[adamshep84]

Agreed. After playing the first two games many times over, i actually felt like i was shepard. But with 3, it just felt off. I felt like i was no longer in control of him cuz of the auto-dialogue. Yeah,some parts were more fluid but i still couldnt ignore the fact that the auto-dialogue made my paragon shepard feel out of character. And yes, i do believe bioware made me3 like that so they could make it appeal to more people and sell more copies and maybe get people to play the first two games. Those of us who actually invested a lot of our time to build our shepards the way we wanted took the biggest hit sad to say.

[wright1978]

txgoldrush wrote...

No, it did not work well with ME1 and ME2...Paragon was fine, Nuetral and Reneagde were lacking, and what if you wanted to alternate between the three, then Shepard becomes a very inconsistant character with wildly changing tones...that is what the problem was in ME1 and ME2 and really a big problem for DA2. No they did not prove anything...ME1 and ME2 were just a stepping stone. Players just do not want to admit that maybe bioware thought it would be far more natural for the conversations to have less dialogue options.

Also don't assume everything is autodialogue, I have seen options account for THREE lines of dialogue. So in a way, a single ME3 option can impact a conversation far more than a single ME1 or ME2 option thats not a final choice.

Its fans that just do not want to concede...they want things their way or its bad. I am for more dialogue options if they can make it more natural, but they can't for ME because of the strong ties to the Paragon Renegade system.

And RPG fans treat the Witcher 2 like the second coming of Christ...it too has autodialogue and limited dialogue choices, and its praised. Same thing with Deus Ex....the real problem is fans want Bioware formula recycled over and over despite any flaws it can have.

Fans just need to learn to concede things.

Disagree completely with you. it worked extremely well in ME1 & 2 because neutral dialogue allowed additional freedom to play character more naturally. Autodialogue in ME3 is what creates huge gulfs in character consistency versus the character that is imported from the previous 2 games.

[Ryven]

txgoldrush wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

No i don't want Bioware to be like CD Projeckt. I want them to be like Bioware in ME2 where dialogue was generally handled well. Very simple non character stuff was auto dialogued but anything else the dialogue wheel popped up. Also neutral dialogues are essential for actually roleplaying and characterisation. ME3 stripped away player control and suddenly introduced a canon autoshep who completely was out of character with the shep i'd played for 2 games. I'm not watching a movie, i'm playing a character. I don't just want to sit back and wacth the game flow by. I want to be involved in steering direction of character.

wrong...he is far from out of character...a Reneagde Shepard does feel remorse and does have limits and can feel loss. Hell, Jack Bauer is one of the the biggest Renegade agent in fiction, but even he is haunted and feels the impacts of innocent lives lost when he fails.

And really, Javik sees through the Renegade Shep when you first meet him...he is not a resolute badass he thinks he is.

He was never your Shepard anyway.

I can easily say that Renegade Shep hid his demons in the first two games....

Then you've already defeated the purpose of this RPG the way BioWare marketed it.
And just because all that fits your interpretations of Renegade Shepard, that doesn't mean it fits everybody else's, especially when the previous two games let you define him/her to a tee.

So can you define Shepard as a vicious convict? No you can't...because Bioware doesn;t give you that option. What if y ou do not want your last name to be Shepard? Than tough. You CAN'T define him to the tee, you are limited to what Bioware gives you,

But what options we were given in ME1 and ME2 to define our Shep was better. No reason for them to step backwards.

If they wanted us to play their Shepard then he should not have had any dialogue options at all, in any of the games. But they set a precedent with ME1 and ME2 and we expected the same thing from 3.

[Gruzmog]

txgoldrush wrote...

No, it did not work well with ME1 and ME2...Paragon was fine, Nuetral and Reneagde were lacking, and what if you wanted to alternate between the three, then Shepard becomes a very inconsistant character with wildly changing tones...that is what the problem was in ME1 and ME2 and really a big problem for DA2. No they did not prove anything...ME1 and ME2 were just a stepping stone. Players just do not want to admit that maybe bioware thought it would be far more natural for the conversations to have less dialogue options.

Also don't assume everything is autodialogue, I have seen options account for THREE lines of dialogue. So in a way, a single ME3 option can impact a conversation far more than a single ME1 or ME2 option thats not a final choice.

Its fans that just do not want to concede...they want things their way or its bad. I am for more dialogue options if they can make it more natural, but they can't for ME because of the strong ties to the Paragon Renegade system.

And RPG fans treat the Witcher 2 like the second coming of Christ...it too has autodialogue and limited dialogue choices, and its praised. Same thing with Deus Ex....the real problem is fans want Bioware formula recycled over and over despite any flaws it can have.

Fans just need to learn to concede things.

Well we have different opinions on wether it worked in in the previous games then. You prefer fluent dialogue, I prefer a character that gives me the illusion, that I control the conversations for my Shepard. That was a key aspect of the series, hence why we expected it to be so in this game. That it was an aspect you did not care for does not make our concerns invalid.

I normally played paragade and for me, minor voice inconsistencies over lack of player choise anytime, when it comes to ME.

The witcher is entirly irrelevant here as it is a different series with different key features. Its story is more action driven; do I give these elves these crates, or do I tell em to bugger off, do I give this kid to this woman or this woman. The story unfolds based on these choises and less on basis of dialogue.

Basicly it comes down to the fact that in ME3, the dialogue should have used a similair system as ME1 and 2, since it was a trilogy, not just a sequal but a part of a whole. Changing one of the key components which with people can define their characters is just not something you do after 67% of the story is over.

That has nothing to do with fans not wanting to admit things, its a matter of consistency in character development. They should have shelved this type of dialogue for the next series or ip.

Modifié par Gruzmog, 25 avril 2012 - 09:14 .

[txgoldrush]

wright1978 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

No, it did not work well with ME1 and ME2...Paragon was fine, Nuetral and Reneagde were lacking, and what if you wanted to alternate between the three, then Shepard becomes a very inconsistant character with wildly changing tones...that is what the problem was in ME1 and ME2 and really a big problem for DA2. No they did not prove anything...ME1 and ME2 were just a stepping stone. Players just do not want to admit that maybe bioware thought it would be far more natural for the conversations to have less dialogue options.

Also don't assume everything is autodialogue, I have seen options account for THREE lines of dialogue. So in a way, a single ME3 option can impact a conversation far more than a single ME1 or ME2 option thats not a final choice.

Its fans that just do not want to concede...they want things their way or its bad. I am for more dialogue options if they can make it more natural, but they can't for ME because of the strong ties to the Paragon Renegade system.

And RPG fans treat the Witcher 2 like the second coming of Christ...it too has autodialogue and limited dialogue choices, and its praised. Same thing with Deus Ex....the real problem is fans want Bioware formula recycled over and over despite any flaws it can have.

Fans just need to learn to concede things.

Disagree completely with you. it worked extremely well in ME1 & 2 because neutral dialogue allowed additional freedom to play character more naturally. Autodialogue in ME3 is what creates huge gulfs in character consistency versus the character that is imported from the previous 2 games.

The only real inconsistancy is Renegade because Bioware made it the stereotypical "evil" option in the first two games...It wasn't as ball dropping and horribly written as Jade Empire's "Closed Fist" character, but clearly Bioware did not have full grasp on the concept. In ME3 now they do, while some Renegade options in ME3 are brutal...they are not sadistic badass moments, they are soul sucking ones, but they are also less and also many times alternate Renegade options are found. In fact the change started before ME3......it was ME2 Overlord really, when even Renegade Shepard thinks what Archer did was hideous.

And really nuetral was pointless in the first two games as well, as it hurt your persausion. Nevermind that opinions on many of ME3's issues like sacrifice do not have really nuetral answers. You just can;t force dialogue options. It snot natural to have a lot of nuetral dialogue in ME3.

[KingKhan03]

lol can we just call it what it is? Rushed and lazy if they had more time they probably would have added more to it but they ran out of time and pushed it out.

[Nightdragon8]

txgoldrush.... then for you they need to make a game where you pick what char you want to be at the begining, you know "good" "bastard" or "easy going" and then auto dialoge the rest of the game... that what it sounds like you want. Because you want super A movie style moive dialge so you can sit back and watch how that story unfolds.

Heck why even make it a game?? just make it a movie and sell it, put in the A,B,C disk and see how it turns out... the "New era of RPG" Only 1 choice!!! "

[txgoldrush]

Xydorn wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

No i don't want Bioware to be like CD Projeckt. I want them to be like Bioware in ME2 where dialogue was generally handled well. Very simple non character stuff was auto dialogued but anything else the dialogue wheel popped up. Also neutral dialogues are essential for actually roleplaying and characterisation. ME3 stripped away player control and suddenly introduced a canon autoshep who completely was out of character with the shep i'd played for 2 games. I'm not watching a movie, i'm playing a character. I don't just want to sit back and wacth the game flow by. I want to be involved in steering direction of character.

wrong...he is far from out of character...a Reneagde Shepard does feel remorse and does have limits and can feel loss. Hell, Jack Bauer is one of the the biggest Renegade agent in fiction, but even he is haunted and feels the impacts of innocent lives lost when he fails.

And really, Javik sees through the Renegade Shep when you first meet him...he is not a resolute badass he thinks he is.

He was never your Shepard anyway.

I can easily say that Renegade Shep hid his demons in the first two games....

Then you've already defeated the purpose of this RPG the way BioWare marketed it.
And just because all that fits your interpretations of Renegade Shepard, that doesn't mean it fits everybody else's, especially when the previous two games let you define him/her to a tee.

So can you define Shepard as a vicious convict? No you can't...because Bioware doesn;t give you that option. What if y ou do not want your last name to be Shepard? Than tough. You CAN'T define him to the tee, you are limited to what Bioware gives you,

But what options we were given in ME1 and ME2 to define our Shep was better. No reason for them to step backwards.

If they wanted us to play their Shepard then he should not have had any dialogue options at all, in any of the games. But they set a precedent with ME1 and ME2 and we expected the same thing from 3.

However, there was a reason to step backwards, because it really didn;t work. There was flaws, there were inconsistancies. Really the only way that the system really works is if you played straight paragon or straight Renegade. Otherwise the character has value clash and tone clash...face it, it was a brand new tyoe of dialogue system, but as with new things there are flaws....wild tone changes and inconsistant quality conversations were those flaws.

[txgoldrush]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

txgoldrush.... then for you they need to make a game where you pick what char you want to be at the begining, you know "good" "bastard" or "easy going" and then auto dialoge the rest of the game... that what it sounds like you want. Because you want super A movie style moive dialge so you can sit back and watch how that story unfolds.

Heck why even make it a game?? just make it a movie and sell it, put in the A,B,C disk and see how it turns out... the "New era of RPG" Only 1 choice!!! "

No, I perfer multidimensional and grey...its the RPG elitists that want the bastard evil renegades.

Nevermind the fact that ME3 Shep represents the Paragon/Renegade system far better. Hint: Renegade is really not about being a jerk all the time.

[Eain]

txgoldrush wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Xydorn wrote...

After playing through a second time it is glaringly apparent that many corners were cut. Probably due to time constraints. Not making excuses for Bioware, just pointing out the obvious.

No, it was an artistic decision to provide a better written Shepard.

Sorry but a better wriitten Shep would provide more choices, not less.

Wrong...the more choices you have, the more trade offs you have to give up, the more strain on your resources occur, and there are more things to take into account.

The more choices you have especially in a voice acted game, the shorter the responses, the choppier the voice acting, and the choppier the dialogue. Then you have to take the NPCs response into account, which spreads their dialogue out.

It seems Bioware has put much more into Shepards dialogue with two choices and autodialogue, than with three. DA2 for instance really did struggle with script choppiness and wild tone changes in VA if you mix it up.

Quantity works in sandbox RPGs and games like Planescape Torment which are not VA'd for the most part, does not work in more cinematic RPGs.

In every thread you appear in you keep going on about how well Shepard should be written.

WE SHOULD BE THE ONES WRITING SHEPARD.

The fact that Shepard has writing at all shows that something at some point has gone wrong. Shepard had no writing in ME1. Bioware allowed me to decide who Shepard was. The same in ME2.

If you want a TPS featuring predetermined protagonists with convincing writing, go play Gears of War. Marcus Fenix fits the bill.

[Shajar]

kavox wrote...

Sacrificed in the name of online play and easier understanding to newer players.

Nothing more to say

[Oransel]

ME3 is a demo of itself.

[count_4]

txgoldrush wrote..
wrong...he is far from out of character...a Reneagde Shepard does feel remorse and does have limits and can feel loss.

And who are you again to tell people how their Shepards are supposed to feel?

[richard_rider]

Sure it wasn't perfect, but it, at least, gave me an illusion that I'm making choices, do I want to throw this guy out of the window, or do I want to try to convince him, do I want to help this guy, or not, and more importantly, why?!

Expository dialogue is fun and informative, reading codex entries, not so much. I'd rather run around the citadel and ask people what they want, and more importantly why they want that, not just eavesdrop, like a stalker, and then show up 20 minutes later with ta-dah "I couldn't help but overhear". Yeah, I couldn't help but overhear because I was actively trying to overhear.

[txgoldrush]

Eain wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Xydorn wrote...

After playing through a second time it is glaringly apparent that many corners were cut. Probably due to time constraints. Not making excuses for Bioware, just pointing out the obvious.

No, it was an artistic decision to provide a better written Shepard.

Sorry but a better wriitten Shep would provide more choices, not less.

Wrong...the more choices you have, the more trade offs you have to give up, the more strain on your resources occur, and there are more things to take into account.

The more choices you have especially in a voice acted game, the shorter the responses, the choppier the voice acting, and the choppier the dialogue. Then you have to take the NPCs response into account, which spreads their dialogue out.

It seems Bioware has put much more into Shepards dialogue with two choices and autodialogue, than with three. DA2 for instance really did struggle with script choppiness and wild tone changes in VA if you mix it up.

Quantity works in sandbox RPGs and games like Planescape Torment which are not VA'd for the most part, does not work in more cinematic RPGs.

In every thread you appear in you keep going on about how well Shepard should be written.

WE SHOULD BE THE ONES WRITING SHEPARD.

The fact that Shepard has writing at all shows that something at some point has gone wrong. Shepard had no writing in ME1. Bioware allowed me to decide who Shepard was. The same in ME2.

If you want a TPS featuring predetermined protagonists with convincing writing, go play Gears of War. Marcus Fenix fits the bill.

No, I perfer Deus Ex Human Revolution....oh wait an RPG with a predetermined protagonist.

Oh wait, the Namless One is predefined too and the Planescape Torment revolves around his history.

An RPG doesn't require a blank slate protagonist.

Face it as well, in ME1 he was written too...he is just stuck between the crappy netherworld between predefined character and open ended character. It tries to be two things at once, doing niether well (maybe at the time of relaease, yes, but not now)

[Eain]

txgoldrush wrote...

No, I perfer Deus Ex Human Revolution....oh wait an RPG with a predetermined protagonist.

Oh wait, the Namless One is predefined too and the Planescape Torment revolves around his history.

An RPG doesn't require a blank slate protagonist.

Face it as well, in ME1 he was written too...he is just stuck between the crappy netherworld between predefined character and open ended character. It tries to be two things at once, doing niether well (maybe at the time of relaease, yes, but not now)

I enjoy DE:HR as much as I enjoy ME2. But the simple fact of the matter is that if you start a trilogy on the premise that the players can determine who their character is, you end it on the same note. You don't suddenly decide halfway through that you want a predetermined protagonist afterall. ME3 feels like I'm playing Bioware's Shepard, not mine. I find it rather ironic that you have a "Shepard deserves better fans" banner in your sig, considering you apparently don't care about Shepard at all.