231 réponses à ce sujet

[txgoldrush]

Wes Finley wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Could it be, the emotional plotline and finale? Overlord was well recieved by the press and the fanbase...try again

Certainly not as well as Shadow Broker, which made much better use of dialogue to express the characters and engage the player. Overlord was fair, par for DLC. LotSB was GOLDEN, and it's the sort of thing I was hoping Bioware would aspire to, rather than mediocrity.

No I didn't misunderstand...you want double standards. Plain and simple.

Double standard? I want ME3 to utilize the dialogue wheel in the same fashion it's predecessors did. Try again.

No, many fans like Overlord better because the ending sequence was deeper emotionally. Thats why Dr. Archer and his brother return in ME3.

And you want the same flaws and you don't care if it affects the writing and the voice acting...well Bioware did care, so the change. Seriously, face it, the old system was flawed.

[Wes Finley]

txgoldrush wrote...

And you do not except the trade off linearity brings...linear plots are far more focused than non linear ones.

Go play some other game. Mass Effect has touted player decision as a primary feature, and managed to deliver on plenty fine, so this complaint is NOT odd or abnormal.

I wonder why ME2 had a weak main plot, maybe because it is too non linear. The more non linear the story gets the more focused is lost.

I would point more to the plot's complete inability to prepare the characters for the coming Reaper threat, instead diddling about with the Collectors and crew's daddy issues, as the weakness. Your linearity point is moot, because most people actually liked the story that game told, except that it failed to advance the larger plot.

You just are not excepting tradeoffs...stop being narrowminded. The problem is not the game, the problem is you.

Nope, pretty sure it's the game. Comes with a 3 on the end for a reason.

[wright1978]

txgoldrush wrote...

Wes Finley wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Could it be, the emotional plotline and finale? Overlord was well recieved by the press and the fanbase...try again

Certainly not as well as Shadow Broker, which made much better use of dialogue to express the characters and engage the player. Overlord was fair, par for DLC. LotSB was GOLDEN, and it's the sort of thing I was hoping Bioware would aspire to, rather than mediocrity.

No I didn't misunderstand...you want double standards. Plain and simple.

Double standard? I want ME3 to utilize the dialogue wheel in the same fashion it's predecessors did. Try again.

No, many fans like Overlord better because the ending sequence was deeper emotionally. Thats why Dr. Archer and his brother return in ME3.

And you want the same flaws and you don't care if it affects the writing and the voice acting...well Bioware did care, so the change. Seriously, face it, the old system was flawed.

No they didn't change the old system because it was flawed. They changed it to appeal to shooter crowd who apparently get bored having to actually make choices and want a streamlined utterly canonised character. That's why they created action mode and in doing so they had to butcher the everybody's Shep in order to do so.

[txgoldrush]

Wes Finley wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Ashley and Kaiden have this, James has this, EDI has this, Liara has one....its to establish what they did before ME3. Garrus an dTali don;t need them.

All major characters, you'll notice, and Garrus/Tali are excluded due to that whole "could be dead" stigma. Nice.

Hell, Liara is an LI and central to driving the plot with the Crucible forward. Come on.

And really, it is lazy for the characters to try and flesh out everything the plot is supposed to flesh out, characters are to help, not do all the work. Bioware is bad when ti comes to turning their characters into talking codexes, more so in older games than the new ones.

You would prefer the plot be relayed by... ghost children crawling out of machines?

Character interaction is the whole point.

Or that in Garrus and Tali's case, the situation is explained well before they come into the picture. Therefore investigation wheel not needed. But Tali actually does have one in the war room.

Character interaction is important, but so is the plot. In fact Bioware until recently SUCKED at getting characters participating in the plot (except for the obvious major characters) and in fact become just extras who try to explain their development. Oh, and older Bioware games including ME1 sucked at character development (not establishment, development) as well for anyone not the main squadmates like Bastila. Its because they are used as talking codexes to explain the character instead of fitting them and their development organically into the plot. At least most of ME3's cast particpate in th eplot and have exceelent character development.

[Oransel]

txgoldrush wrote...
And you do not except the trade off linearity brings...linear plots are far more focused than non linear ones. ME3 HAS to close the series, so it has to be more linear. I wonder why ME2 had a weak main plot, maybe because it is too non linear. The more non linear the story gets the more focused is lost.

You just are not excepting tradeoffs...stop being narrowminded. The problem is not the game, the problem is you.

Bioware written story is worse than Bioware/myself written story. This statement is true for any person willing to invest heavily in game. 

You are like pop-music fan that comes to rock-music forum and starts to tell them why they are wrong and how they should listen to pop only. Mass Effect is non-linear game. People like it. You don't like non-linearity, ok, go play something else, don't force your views on us.

[txgoldrush]

wright1978 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wes Finley wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Could it be, the emotional plotline and finale? Overlord was well recieved by the press and the fanbase...try again

Certainly not as well as Shadow Broker, which made much better use of dialogue to express the characters and engage the player. Overlord was fair, par for DLC. LotSB was GOLDEN, and it's the sort of thing I was hoping Bioware would aspire to, rather than mediocrity.

No I didn't misunderstand...you want double standards. Plain and simple.

Double standard? I want ME3 to utilize the dialogue wheel in the same fashion it's predecessors did. Try again.

No, many fans like Overlord better because the ending sequence was deeper emotionally. Thats why Dr. Archer and his brother return in ME3.

And you want the same flaws and you don't care if it affects the writing and the voice acting...well Bioware did care, so the change. Seriously, face it, the old system was flawed.

No they didn't change the old system because it was flawed. They changed it to appeal to shooter crowd who apparently get bored having to actually make choices and want a streamlined utterly canonised character. That's why they created action mode and in doing so they had to butcher the everybody's Shep in order to do so.

Then why has people commented on Mark Meer's improved voice acting? It must be the newer system helping him. It must be that the flow is so much better that he is allowed greater range.

Face it, Bioware did something you didn't like.....deal with it, doesn't mean its bad. Hell, I am an RPG vet whose first RPG is Ultima IV...the ME3 system is fine. Stop being narrow minded.

[Wes Finley]

txgoldrush wrote...
And you want the same flaws and you don't care if it affects the writing and the voice acting...well Bioware did care, so the change. Seriously, face it, the old system was flawed.

Boy, they made those other 2 games just fine.

Seems you really don't give them much credit, and feel the need to defend a phoned-in product, when I've seen what they are capable of and just want to hold them to that higher standard.

If you/Bioware are willing to settle on a lesser product, than I'm willing to let my money settle in my wallet in the future. Just don't tell me I'm "Entitled" for expecting a similar product from a titled with 3 in the title.

[txgoldrush]

Oransel wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
And you do not except the trade off linearity brings...linear plots are far more focused than non linear ones. ME3 HAS to close the series, so it has to be more linear. I wonder why ME2 had a weak main plot, maybe because it is too non linear. The more non linear the story gets the more focused is lost.

You just are not excepting tradeoffs...stop being narrowminded. The problem is not the game, the problem is you.

Bioware written story is worse than Bioware/myself written story. This statement is true for any person willing to invest heavily in game. 

You are like pop-music fan that comes to rock-music forum and starts to tell them why they are wrong and how they should listen to pop only. Mass Effect is non-linear game. People like it. You don't like non-linearity, ok, go play something else, don't force your views on us.

ME3 is more linear...TOO BAD!!! Its you that has to face facts not me.

You are just another crybaby fan who didn't get his way so he pouts on th forum, and who claim to speak for the majority.

Face it, Mass Effect is whatever Bioware wants it to be....

[wright1978]

txgoldrush wrote...

Then why has people commented on Mark Meer's improved voice acting? It must be the newer system helping him. It must be that the flow is so much better that he is allowed greater range.

Face it, Bioware did something you didn't like.....deal with it, doesn't mean its bad. Hell, I am an RPG vet whose first RPG is Ultima IV...the ME3 system is fine. Stop being narrow minded.

I certainly didn't notice any difference in Meer's perfromance and haven't seen any such threads either.

In my opinion it is bad. As far as the final part of a hugely successful trilogy which was previously based on player choice over the character it most certainly is bad to remove said choice. Certainly Bioware can decide they don't want to make the type of RPG they used to make in future and they'll just lose the custom of all the people that buy their games to roleplay.

[oblivionenss]

Just ignore txgoldrush, he seems to be one of the new people Bioware wanted to reach....

[Wes Finley]

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it, Mass Effect is whatever Bioware wants it to be....

Which is exactly why future Mass Effect products are looking at such a shaky future right now. They made it to game three without a major issue and a very excited fan base... and now look.

I guess they can always count on folks like you to settle for an inferior product, or hell, even openly attack the fans who just wonder what happened to the good old days.

[txgoldrush]

Wes Finley wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
And you want the same flaws and you don't care if it affects the writing and the voice acting...well Bioware did care, so the change. Seriously, face it, the old system was flawed.

Boy, they made those other 2 games just fine.

Seems you really don't give them much credit, and feel the need to defend a phoned-in product, when I've seen what they are capable of and just want to hold them to that higher standard.

If you/Bioware are willing to settle on a lesser product, than I'm willing to let my money settle in my wallet in the future. Just don't tell me I'm "Entitled" for expecting a similar product from a titled with 3 in the title.

I am holding them to a higher standard...why does dialogue have to be robotic? Why can't it be more natural like ME3. Why do we have to accept flaws that the old system brings? The old system makes dialogue robotic.

Really, even classic games have flaws. Ultima VII for instance has an atrocious inventory system.  It may be highly realistic, but it is annoying.

You are Enitiled...you thinbk that something isn;t done your style means its low standard. Nevermind the critics gave ME3 critical acclaim, once again, and even criticized the fan base for whining.

[Catroi]

How dare you question the Wheel's artistic integrity you entitled gamer moron???!!!

On an serious note:
The game WAS rushed look at all the cut content, bugs, import face thing and the ending mission...

[txgoldrush]

oblivionenss wrote...

Just ignore txgoldrush, he seems to be one of the new people Bioware wanted to reach....

nope...been a fan since BG1, try again.

[oblivionenss]

txgoldrush wrote...

oblivionenss wrote...

Just ignore txgoldrush, he seems to be one of the new people Bioware wanted to reach....

nope...been a fan since BG1, try again.

Oh?

And yet you want even more linearity in dialouges.........

[elegolas1]

txgoldrush wrote...

Wes Finley wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Ashley
and Kaiden have this, James has this, EDI has this, Liara has
one....its to establish what they did before ME3. Garrus an dTali don;t
need them.

All major characters, you'll notice, and Garrus/Tali are excluded due to that whole "could be dead" stigma. Nice.

Hell, Liara is an LI and central to driving the plot with the Crucible forward. Come on.

And
really, it is lazy for the characters to try and flesh out everything
the plot is supposed to flesh out, characters are to help, not do all
the work. Bioware is bad when ti comes to turning their characters into
talking codexes, more so in older games than the new ones.

You would prefer the plot be relayed by... ghost children crawling out of machines?

Character interaction is the whole point.

Or
that in Garrus and Tali's case, the situation is explained well before
they come into the picture. Therefore investigation wheel not needed.
But Tali actually does have one in the war room.

Character
interaction is important, but so is the plot. In fact Bioware until
recently SUCKED at getting characters participating in the plot (except
for the obvious major characters) and in fact become just extras who try
to explain their development. Oh, and older Bioware games including ME1
sucked at character development (not establishment, development) as
well for anyone not the main squadmates like Bastila. Its because they
are used as talking codexes to explain the character instead of fitting
them and their development organically into the plot. At least most of
ME3's cast particpate in th eplot and have exceelent character
development.

Modifié par elegolas1, 25 avril 2012 - 11:04 .

[txgoldrush]

Wes Finley wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it, Mass Effect is whatever Bioware wants it to be....

Which is exactly why future Mass Effect products are looking at such a shaky future right now. They made it to game three without a major issue and a very excited fan base... and now look.

I guess they can always count on folks like you to settle for an inferior product, or hell, even openly attack the fans who just wonder what happened to the good old days.

Because maybe the good old day games have flaws...

...its actually YOU that do not want the company to grow...it is YOU that want the same types of games, the same type of formula OVER and OVER again.

Face it, it doesn't have to be the same....stop trying to force Bioware into your narrow views or formula on what their games should be.

[CommanderBald]

txgoldrush wrote...

Wes Finley wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
And you want the same flaws and you don't care if it affects the writing and the voice acting...well Bioware did care, so the change. Seriously, face it, the old system was flawed.

Boy, they made those other 2 games just fine.

Seems you really don't give them much credit, and feel the need to defend a phoned-in product, when I've seen what they are capable of and just want to hold them to that higher standard.

If you/Bioware are willing to settle on a lesser product, than I'm willing to let my money settle in my wallet in the future. Just don't tell me I'm "Entitled" for expecting a similar product from a titled with 3 in the title.

I am holding them to a higher standard...why does dialogue have to be robotic? Why can't it be more natural like ME3. Why do we have to accept flaws that the old system brings? The old system makes dialogue robotic.

Really, even classic games have flaws. Ultima VII for instance has an atrocious inventory system.  It may be highly realistic, but it is annoying.

You are Enitiled...you thinbk that something isn;t done your style means its low standard. Nevermind the critics gave ME3 critical acclaim, once again, and even criticized the fan base for whining.

People liked the dialogue wheel in 1 and 2. When Bioware changes it so that they no longer like it, those people deserve to be able to voice their concerns. Will it change the current edition of the series? Of course not, but it lets Bioware know that they did something wrong. If people didn't complain, we'd still be stuck with our unexplained ending.

[Catroi]

txgoldrush wrote...

oblivionenss wrote...

Just ignore txgoldrush, he seems to be one of the new people Bioware wanted to reach....

nope...been a fan since BG1, try again.

Doesn't change the fact that you won't admit that there is even one flaw to the game.
We can disagree on a lot of thing, but I think we also can reach a concensus:
I know that no game is perfect so not all the things that I criticize in the game (one small hub, fewer conversations with squadmates, less squadmates, only action oriented side-quest) HAVE to be corrected but surely you can agree with the fact that the game is far from perfect?

[txgoldrush]

oblivionenss wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

oblivionenss wrote...

Just ignore txgoldrush, he seems to be one of the new people Bioware wanted to reach....

nope...been a fan since BG1, try again.

Oh?

And yet you want even more linearity in dialouges.........

For a game like ME yes.....if it leads to more natural dialogue.

Not everything has to be the same formula.

[oblivionenss]

txgoldrush wrote...

oblivionenss wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

oblivionenss wrote...

Just ignore txgoldrush, he seems to be one of the new people Bioware wanted to reach....

nope...been a fan since BG1, try again.

Oh?

And yet you want even more linearity in dialouges.........

For a game like ME yes.....if it leads to more natural dialogue.

Not everything has to be the same formula.

Natural dialouge? Do you mean when it just goes on and on without any player input?

Because that is not an RPG that sounds more like games like MGS.

[txgoldrush]

Catroi wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

oblivionenss wrote...

Just ignore txgoldrush, he seems to be one of the new people Bioware wanted to reach....

nope...been a fan since BG1, try again.

Doesn't change the fact that you won't admit that there is even one flaw to the game.
We can disagree on a lot of thing, but I think we also can reach a concensus:
I know that no game is perfect so not all the things that I criticize in the game (one small hub, fewer conversations with squadmates, less squadmates, only action oriented side-quest) HAVE to be corrected but surely you can agree with the fact that the game is far from perfect?

I have admitted in the past that the endings lacked clarity and closure and needed to be tweaked.

The game is far from perfect, but so are the other Bioware games fans want to compare ME3 to to look down on ME3. ME1 for instance is FAR from perfect as well.

[Wes Finley]

txgoldrush wrote...
You are Enitiled...you thinbk that something isn;t done your style means its low standard. Nevermind the critics gave ME3 critical acclaim, once again, and even criticized the fan base for whining.

Critics like Jessica Chobot, who I can only assume was compensated for her performance as the dog-faced girl?

Critics who's sites collected money from EA/Bioware for the adspace sold around those reviews?

Critics who categorically avoided talking about the ending, or referred to it as "...certainly controversial" in passing.

Critics, whom critics from more well developed mediums have observed are less prepared to critique high-brow story issues when they are primarly focused on mechanical elements.

Critcs who didn't pay for their copy of the game, nor for the copies of the previous installments that proved that there was a market to disappoint with this 3rd game?

Modifié par Wes Finley, 25 avril 2012 - 10:59 .

[Hellfire257]

I saw some glowing kid walking off with them. Did anyone else see that?

[txgoldrush]

oblivionenss wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

oblivionenss wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

oblivionenss wrote...

Just ignore txgoldrush, he seems to be one of the new people Bioware wanted to reach....

nope...been a fan since BG1, try again.

Oh?

And yet you want even more linearity in dialouges.........

For a game like ME yes.....if it leads to more natural dialogue.

Not everything has to be the same formula.

Natural dialouge? Do you mean when it just goes on and on without any player input?

Because that is not an RPG that sounds more like games like MGS.

but I still have dialogue options and big choices....

...why does their need to be a dialogue option for every sentence?