231 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

fainmaca wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Patrick Weekes on why so much auto-dialogue and the exclusion of neutral option.
...but also to get more natural dialog. Hard to make impactful, player-involved scene when you pick each line.
https://twitter.com/...830230780973056

So let me get this straight.... they removed player involvement because it detracted from player involvement? That's some starchild logic right there.

To all those that say the scenes flow better and interactivity is overrated: I play games for an interactive experience. If you want a smooth, movie-like experience, GO TO THE MOVIES. You're pursuing the wrong genre with those priorities.

I shook my head when i read that comment. We all lost the core mechanic of player characterisation so they could make movie scenes. Also surely it is a contradiction in terms to call it a player involved scene when it is all BS auto-dialogue which the player has no involvement in.

Modifié par wright1978, 20 juin 2012 - 10:40 .

[Fireblader70]

Although there were those tweets by Patrick Weekes, I'm also pretty certain there was another excuse about the cinematic designers (or something) not being able to create scenes for every dialogue choice, due to the number of lines being about 40,000 rather than 25,000.

Just something else to add to the rage fire...

[spirosz]

Tali's photo seemed really natural as well. No, but seriously - I think there was just too much for the game, so they decided to take a simpler route, I'd rather the game come out this summer or next year, if it was to improve on the dialogue wheel and not have the insane amount of auto-"win" as they like to put it.

[spirosz]

You know what, I even think it's insulting towards the last 2 minutes of the game with Starchild, what happened to the great scene with the T.I.M, which involved a lot of dialogue options and player interactivity? Then we fly up into space magic and  "Hey Shepard, you'll agree to my logic no matter what" mindset - thanks Bioware - what happened to the "bull****" option (even Neo says it to the Architect), like come on.

Modifié par spiros9110, 20 juin 2012 - 10:26 .

[djspectre]

kavox wrote...

Sacrificed in the name of online play and easier understanding to newer players.

^ this

[clarkusdarkus]

I would love to know how many players actually played action mode and removed all dialogue choice.

[Jonathan Sud]

Meh. The dialogue choices always really amounted to the same outcome in ME1 and 2, so it's not really a "make or break" decision.

[Ticonderoga117]

clarkusdarkus wrote...

I would love to know how many players actually played action mode and removed all dialogue choice.

Oh, I'm sure Bioware will release stats like they did with ME2. Then we can go find them and ask "Why the hell did you buy this game anyway? If you say MP we're going to hurt you."

[clarkusdarkus]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

clarkusdarkus wrote...

I would love to know how many players actually played action mode and removed all dialogue choice.

Oh, I'm sure Bioware will release stats like they did with ME2. Then we can go find them and ask "Why the hell did you buy this game anyway? If you say MP we're going to hurt you."

yeah lieoware will no doubt praise there genius idea's and how many times people replayed the game, everyone used vega, downloaded jaimaican javik etc crap....... I can hear it now from newbies....." i havent finished it yet im too busy buying packs in MP "...and " Didnt really get the story anyway so lost interest "....

[knightnblu]

wright1978 wrote...

Yep i was very disappointed by this especially as before release i'd heard Casey saying that new modes wouldn't effect the level of choice people had to reflect their own personal Sheps. Then during game i would be sitting, mouse ready to make choices and shep would in automatic pilot say things my shep would never say. It seems clear to me that this came about out of making cutscenes for action mode and RPG mode suffering as a result. Really hope in future games they reverse this trend and only have very small amounts of autodialogue.

Yeah, and Casey also said that there would be sixteen wildly diferent endings as well. Apparently, Casey doesn't know what he is talking about.

[Jamie9]

"We're at war. No one wants to admit it but dialogue wheels and the freedom of choice are under attack. One very specific DLC might be all that stands between RPGs and the greatest threat of our brief existence."

[saracen16]

BioWare fans are responsible for this shift. Your feedback changed this.

[JamieCOTC]

Fireblader70 wrote...

Although there were those tweets by Patrick Weekes, I'm also pretty certain there was another excuse about the cinematic designers (or something) not being able to create scenes for every dialogue choice, due to the number of lines being about 40,000 rather than 25,000.

Just something else to add to the rage fire...

It's not just that, but the sheer volume of dialogue in ME3 is quite astounding and they had to stay w/in a dialogue budget. Hindsight being 20/20, diverting resources from certain elements (IGN reporter, dialogue for meaningless fetch quests) may have helped.  I don't know.  I do know that I personally didn't care for the auto-dialogue myself and thought that Meer and Hale did just a good a job if not better when a choice was in play. And Hale did speak softly in certain scenes in ME1.

[Fireblader70]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

Although there were those tweets by Patrick Weekes, I'm also pretty certain there was another excuse about the cinematic designers (or something) not being able to create scenes for every dialogue choice, due to the number of lines being about 40,000 rather than 25,000.

Just something else to add to the rage fire...

It's not just that, but the sheer volume of dialogue in ME3 is quite astounding and they had to stay w/in a dialogue budget. Hindsight being 20/20, diverting resources from certain elements (IGN reporter, dialogue for meaningless fetch quests) may have helped.  I don't know.  I do know that I personally didn't care for the auto-dialogue myself and thought that Meer and Hale did just a good a job if not better when a choice was in play. And Hale did speak softly in certain scenes in ME1.

Yes, budget is always a problem, as well as time. The amount of detail on the Citadel and variables they had to take into account meant that the lines of dialogue shot up, so it was more efficient for the dev team to simply reduce the number of times the player made a choice on the wheel. However, the variety is not the problem (ME1 was similar), but rather the illusion of choice, I think.

[o Ventus]

txgoldrush wrote...

No, sacrificed in the name of BETTER written protagonists, better voice acting, and far more organic conversations....

Yup. "We fight or we die." What a golden medal of dialogue.

Face it, the dialogue wheel forced the writers to write multiple dialogue for almost every line, which in turn waters down the QUALITY of the dialogue.

No, it doesn't. This is patently false.

The dialogue wheel also breaks up the flow of Meer and Hale because they have to show different tones for each little dialogue option every 3 seconds....the Reneagde is especially bad.

Again, no.

Nevermind that the three option system sucked monkey balls...lets see, the generally well written good option, the derp derp nuetral option, and the overplayed Reneagde option. DA2 is even worse with the sarcastic function....

At this point, I'm convinced you're trolling.

Seriously fans can't see improvements if it hit them in the nose.....

That's because there are no improvements.

[Ticonderoga117]

saracen16 wrote...

BioWare fans are responsible for this shift. Your feedback changed this.

Who asked for Action Mode? Somehow I think it was less us, more they wanted CoD's fanbase to buy thier games.

[Fireblader70]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

BioWare fans are responsible for this shift. Your feedback changed this.

Who asked for Action Mode? Somehow I think it was less us, more they wanted CoD's fanbase to buy thier games.

Yeah, but they also created story mode, which throws combat out the window in favour of dialogue and... uh... the story.

I think they wanted everyone, not just the CoD fanbase, to buy the game. That, however, is not the reason for autodialogue - it's a combination of budget, time and variables. In my opinion.

[Ticonderoga117]

Fireblader70 wrote...
Yeah, but they also created story mode, which throws combat out the window in favour of dialogue and... uh... the story.

I think they wanted everyone, not just the CoD fanbase, to buy the game. That, however, is not the reason for autodialogue - it's a combination of budget, time and variables. In my opinion.

It always is pretty much. However I wouldn't discount meddling from higher ups on some of these choices. That influences all of those varibles, if it occured. *shrug* Oh well.

[OMTING52601]

Has anyone played story mode? I mean, if it was supposed to make the action a non-entity, in order to focus on character and story... That'd be a heck of a lot of time spent in auto-dialogue, wouldn't it? I'm serious, here, btw. I haven't played anything but in normal or RPG or whatever mode.

[JamieCOTC]

OMTING52601 wrote...

Has anyone played story mode? I mean, if it was supposed to make the action a non-entity, in order to focus on character and story... That'd be a heck of a lot of time spent in auto-dialogue, wouldn't it? I'm serious, here, btw. I haven't played anything but in normal or RPG or whatever mode.

I've actually tried it.  The gameplay difficulty is toned waaaaay down. Unless you are just not paying any attention to what you are doing, you can't die. That's the only difference between story mode and RPG.

Action mode makes the choices for you. It's all auto-dialogue except for a few "big" decisions.  Also, f you don't import a Shepard from ME2, there are slightly less choices in dialogue. 

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 21 juin 2012 - 12:59 .

[yukon fire]

Without dialogue choice ME3 is as bland as a cheese sandwhich

[iggy4566]

yukon fire wrote...

Without dialogue choice ME3 is as bland as a cheese sandwhich

Cheese sandwhiches are damn good when warmed up.

[dtrain24]

txgoldrush wrote...

No, sacrificed in the name of BETTER written protagonists, better voice acting, and far more organic conversations....

Face it, the dialogue wheel forced the writers to write multiple dialogue for almost every line, which in turn waters down the QUALITY of the dialogue.

The dialogue wheel also breaks up the flow of Meer and Hale because they have to show different tones for each little dialogue option every 3 seconds....the Reneagde is especially bad.

Nevermind that the three option system sucked monkey balls...lets see, the generally well written good option, the derp derp nuetral option, and the overplayed Reneagde option. DA2 is even worse with the sarcastic function....

Now for ME3, the Renegade options have been VASTLY improved where not only do they fit the philosophy, flow much better where Shep can alternate between the two without sounding schizophenic or out of character. Instaead of a dumb neutral option and a overplayed and off the mark renegade, we get a far more subtle Renegade dialogue.

Seriously fans can't see improvements if it hit them in the nose.....they want interactivity for the sake of interactivity, even if it hurts the games writing and voice acting. Ever heard Hale speak in a soft voice in th efirst two games...nope...could be the autodialogue allowing her to do so in ME3.

Ironically, fans want Bioware to be more like CD Projeckt, well gues what, the Witcher games have limited dialogue options and tons of autodialogue....LOL

I'm guessing you've never played Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2. You sound like a COD fanboy.  The auto-dialogue is one of the things that ruined Mass Effect 3.  Making choices in dialogue for Shepard is one of the things that make the game so great. Yet it was taken away from us. 
All three options were well written depending on the player.  It's better then just giving us no choice at all what Shepard says.
Shepard sounded in character with Renegade as long as you were playing as one back in the first two games. Maybe some fans didn't want a subtle Renegade.
Your points don't carry much weight.

[JamieCOTC]

Jassu1979 wrote...

Sorry, but cutting most of the role-playing elements from a role-playing game is NOT an improvement.

QFT. 

[JamieCOTC]

#FemShep‬ and ‪#BroShep‬ will indeed have the option to be more vulnerable and human in ‪#me3‬. But it will be an option. ‪#ItsYourShepard - Mac Walters
https://twitter.com/...181333377196032