231 réponses à ce sujet

[KaeserZen]

txgoldrush wrote...
wrong...he is far from out of character...a Reneagde Shepard does feel remorse and does have limits and can feel loss. Hell, Jack Bauer is one of the the biggest Renegade agent in fiction, but even he is haunted and feels the impacts of innocent lives lost when he fails.

And really, Javik sees through the Renegade Shep when you first meet him...he is not a resolute badass he thinks he is.

He was never your Shepard anyway.

I can easily say that Renegade Shep hid his demons in the first two games....

And this is where you totally miss the point... again.

There were not any "Canon" Shepard personnality meant to be. Shepard, since ME1, was meant to be YOUR adventure in space.

Not the adventure of "The Shepard", as was presented in ME3.

Whether you like it or not, complete dialog options was the core of this series. You were not supposed to be reading the story of Shepard, but writing yours. And when the final instalment of a series built upon this premise pulls a 180 turn, then you can say it has failed its spirit, no matter whether people enjoy it or not.

It's as if Ferrari started producing 4 seats, 4 cylinders, 2liters turbodiesel, FWD Sedan. The result might be good, but it's not a Ferrari.

[KaeserZen]

JamieCOTC wrote...

#FemShep‬ and ‪#BroShep‬ will indeed have the option to be more vulnerable and human in ‪#me3‬. But it will be an option. ‪#ItsYourShepard - Mac Walters
https://twitter.com/...181333377196032

Haha, nice quotes. Based on all the previous announcements, I'm starting to wonder if they released the game they were developing.

Probably a trolling developper burned the wrong copy in the master, then ran way.

[yukon fire]

iggy4566 wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

Without dialogue choice ME3 is as bland as a cheese sandwhich

Cheese sandwhiches are damn good when warmed up.

And with a bit more effort ME3 could have been good too.

[TheClonesLegacy]

They Have gone the way of the Mystical buffalo, Disappearing into the Abyss of eternity, Never to return, For the Evil forces of Broadening the Demographic pushed them in there, Sure there may still be traces of it lingering about, But it will soon be gone.

[jules_vern18]

KaeserZen wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

#FemShep‬ and ‪#BroShep‬ will indeed have the option to be more vulnerable and human in ‪#me3‬. But it will be an option. ‪#ItsYourShepard - Mac Walters
https://twitter.com/...181333377196032

Haha, nice quotes. Based on all the previous announcements, I'm starting to wonder if they released the game they were developing.

Probably a trolling developper burned the wrong copy in the master, then ran way.

There are several points in ME3 where Shep has the option to present a not-previously-seen vulnerable side.  You don't get to micromanage every sentence that comes out of his mouth, but the options are very much there.

[HelpingFR]

I regret too the lack of options dialogs. I feel so limited in the game and I though, with this kind of pre-writing character who should be ME, MY shepard changed his own personality between Me2 and Me3.

I have been really disappointed they destroyed that part of the game wich makes the spirit of Mass Effect.
In ME1 and ME2, there was many dialog options. In ME3, have 2 dialog options is a miracle.

[Torrential]

Not finished in the playthrough yet, but I find myself drifting off or being distracted when longer auto dialogue comes up, often missing the scene entirely.

[Robhuzz]

yukon fire wrote...

iggy4566 wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

Without dialogue choice ME3 is as bland as a cheese sandwhich

Cheese sandwhiches are damn good when warmed up.

And with a bit more effort ME3 could have been good too.

Games simply cannot be good if they receive too little dev time. And proper dev time is impossible when ruled by EA since they want quick munnehh. I probably shouldn't expect DA3 to be any good either...

[RiouHotaru]

Uhhh...dialog wheels were there. Just because they the pointless and often unneeded netural dialog doesn't mean there's less dialog.

I believe their data confirmed there's actually MORE dialog in ME3 versus ME2

[Fireblader70]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Uhhh...dialog wheels were there. Just because they the pointless and often unneeded netural dialog doesn't mean there's less dialog.

I believe their data confirmed there's actually MORE dialog in ME3 versus ME2

Overall, there are roughly 40,000 lines of dialogue in ME3 compared to ME2's 25,000. However, because of this, they could not create dialogue wheels for every scene in the game, and this is what people are angry about. Bioware took the mechanic that defined Mass Effect and reduced it - slightly weird, but at least the wheel is not gone completely.

[lillitheris]

Fireblader70 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Uhhh...dialog wheels were there. Just because they the pointless and often unneeded netural dialog doesn't mean there's less dialog.

I believe their data confirmed there's actually MORE dialog in ME3 versus ME2

Overall, there are roughly 40,000 lines of dialogue in ME3 compared to ME2's 25,000. However, because of this, they could not create dialogue wheels for every scene in the game, and this is what people are angry about. Bioware took the mechanic that defined Mass Effect and reduced it - slightly weird, but at least the wheel is not gone completely.

No, people are upset because the dialogue doesn’t reflect their Shepard. It’s a partially illusory effect, but no less important for that.

[Xellith]

ME3.. my shepard stopped being my shepard the second I loaded my ME2 save file... so sad... ME3 had so much potential. I just dont think that Bioware has the inclination whatsoever to fix the problems as they are content they made a decent game for the most part (which is fine if your idea of a decent game is something that causes a few million people to complain)

[Fireblader70]

lillitheris wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Uhhh...dialog wheels were there. Just because they the pointless and often unneeded netural dialog doesn't mean there's less dialog.

I believe their data confirmed there's actually MORE dialog in ME3 versus ME2

Overall, there are roughly 40,000 lines of dialogue in ME3 compared to ME2's 25,000. However, because of this, they could not create dialogue wheels for every scene in the game, and this is what people are angry about. Bioware took the mechanic that defined Mass Effect and reduced it - slightly weird, but at least the wheel is not gone completely.

No, people are upset because the dialogue doesn’t reflect their Shepard. It’s a partially illusory effect, but no less important for that.

...Which is caused by the autodialogue and lack of wheels, which are supposed to give you the choice to react to decisions however you wish.

It's the same thing.

[clarkusdarkus]

I want to micro-manage every conversation just like ME1, anything less is a failure. Just another example of ME3 failing in everyway bar 2 missions.

[Dean_the_Young]

KaeserZen wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
wrong...he is far from out of character...a Reneagde Shepard does feel remorse and does have limits and can feel loss. Hell, Jack Bauer is one of the the biggest Renegade agent in fiction, but even he is haunted and feels the impacts of innocent lives lost when he fails.

And really, Javik sees through the Renegade Shep when you first meet him...he is not a resolute badass he thinks he is.

He was never your Shepard anyway.

I can easily say that Renegade Shep hid his demons in the first two games....

And this is where you totally miss the point... again.

There were not any "Canon" Shepard personnality meant to be. Shepard, since ME1, was meant to be YOUR adventure in space.

Not the adventure of "The Shepard", as was presented in ME3.

Except that it was. It might have been 'your' Shepard, but Mass Effect was never a self-insert you decide everything adventure: Shepard has always existed within a narrow scope of Paragon or Renegade dialogue.

Whether you like it or not, complete dialog options was the core of this series. You were not supposed to be reading the story of Shepard, but writing yours. And when the final instalment of a series built upon this premise pulls a 180 turn, then you can say it has failed its spirit, no matter whether people enjoy it or not.

No, you've always been playing the story of Shepard. You've never been writing it from scratch: the simple limits of the medium of a video game prevent it, and the games have never pretended otherwise. You've always followed pre-defined story paths and plot-lines, and you've always had only two or three dialogue options to pick from, two for the big choices.

It's as if Ferrari started producing 4 seats, 4 cylinders, 2liters turbodiesel, FWD Sedan. The result might be good, but it's not a Ferrari.

In this case, however, it would be if someone forgot that they had always been riding the FWD Sedan and simply had been calling it a Ferrari all this time.

[Dean_the_Young]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

Although there were those tweets by Patrick Weekes, I'm also pretty certain there was another excuse about the cinematic designers (or something) not being able to create scenes for every dialogue choice, due to the number of lines being about 40,000 rather than 25,000.

Just something else to add to the rage fire...

It's not just that, but the sheer volume of dialogue in ME3 is quite astounding and they had to stay w/in a dialogue budget. Hindsight being 20/20, diverting resources from certain elements (IGN reporter, dialogue for meaningless fetch quests) may have helped.  I don't know.  I do know that I personally didn't care for the auto-dialogue myself and thought that Meer and Hale did just a good a job if not better when a choice was in play. And Hale did speak softly in certain scenes in ME1.

I don't know how much they payed for Allers (it might have been for peanuts, given that she was a fan), but the fetch-quest dialogue is so minor that it's hardly a major resource sink. They probably spent more time, money, and effort on the opening than they did with all the fetch-quest combined.

[Dean_the_Young]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

Sorry, but cutting most of the role-playing elements from a role-playing game is NOT an improvement.

QFT. 

On the other hand, it's not actually a truth: just an assertion, until supported by evidence. Instances versus elements versus density versus amount. If Jassu meant 'there are fewer dialgoue choices', that would be something, but that's not what Jassu said. I Dialogue wheels weren't cut out of the game: that's an element that remains.

[Dean_the_Young]

JamieCOTC wrote...

#FemShep‬ and ‪#BroShep‬ will indeed have the option to be more vulnerable and human in ‪#me3‬. But it will be an option. ‪#ItsYourShepard - Mac Walters
https://twitter.com/...181333377196032

Not sure what your point is, since I can recall a number of conversations in which Shepard can be vulnerable or not depending on dialogue. Liara, Garrus, some of the LI's, the Anderson conversations... quite a few cases for Shepard to flinch.

Are you trying to refer to Shepard having the dreams as a case of being vulnerable? That would require you to feel that that's what it means... and it would also require you to ignore that the previous games have had points that show Shepard with 'canon' emotional response-tones.

[iggy4566]

yukon fire wrote...

iggy4566 wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

Without dialogue choice ME3 is as bland as a cheese sandwhich

Cheese sandwhiches are damn good when warmed up.

And with a bit more effort ME3 could have been good too.

No I'm not talking about ME3 I'm just defending Cheese sandwhiches.

[wright1978]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

Sorry, but cutting most of the role-playing elements from a role-playing game is NOT an improvement.

QFT. 

On the other hand, it's not actually a truth: just an assertion, until supported by evidence. Instances versus elements versus density versus amount. If Jassu meant 'there are fewer dialgoue choices', that would be something, but that's not what Jassu said. I Dialogue wheels weren't cut out of the game: that's an element that remains.

Why didn't they cut out lots of the combat and make it automatic? It would still exist just as the cut down reduced dialogue wheel stills exists but is a shadow of its former self.

[KiwiQuiche]

mauro2222 wrote...

It has been taken as hostage by Casey, in the same bunker he's hiding.

Haha, best theory I've seen yet.

[10K]

iggy4566 wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

The devs listened to their fans. I mean seriously, ME1 fans didn't want elevator rides. So we got loading screens. They didn't want the Mako. So we got the hammer head. In ME 2 they didn't want the hammer head so they ditch planet exploration. There's a bunch of things the fans didn't want and BW catered to them the best they can. Fans are the reason somethings are just not right with ME3. So for now own I'm just going to blame the fans for every flaw I noticed.

Even the ending?

no not the ending, but some things.

[iggy4566]

mosesarose wrote...

iggy4566 wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

The devs listened to their fans. I mean seriously, ME1 fans didn't want elevator rides. So we got loading screens. They didn't want the Mako. So we got the hammer head. In ME 2 they didn't want the hammer head so they ditch planet exploration. There's a bunch of things the fans didn't want and BW catered to them the best they can. Fans are the reason somethings are just not right with ME3. So for now own I'm just going to blame the fans for every flaw I noticed.

Even the ending?

no not the ending, but some things.

like what?

[chester013]

It's a dialogue stick now; it only has two options, two points. If you connect those points you have a stick. With a stick you can then beat your audience with several minutes of auto dialogue.

I like the interactivityness.

[10K]

iggy4566 wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

iggy4566 wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

The devs listened to their fans. I mean seriously, ME1 fans didn't want elevator rides. So we got loading screens. They didn't want the Mako. So we got the hammer head. In ME 2 they didn't want the hammer head so they ditch planet exploration. There's a bunch of things the fans didn't want and BW catered to them the best they can. Fans are the reason somethings are just not right with ME3. So for now own I'm just going to blame the fans for every flaw I noticed.

Even the ending?

no not the ending, but some things.

like what?

Like no planet exploration. since ME1 some of the fans complained about the Mako that got cut. So then we got the hammer head, some fans didn't like that. so they complained and so the hammerhead was cut. by time ME3 the dev probebly didn't know what would make people happy so by time production they said screw it and gave us nothing. My point is some people here just complain about one thing and when the devs try to fix it, they complain about the fix. I'm not trying to defend BW, hell no that's not what I trying to do. But I just think sometimes we just should be happy for what we got in the beginning.

P.S.
In no way are the fans to blame about that ending.

Modifié par mosesarose, 21 juin 2012 - 04:59 .