14 réponses à ce sujet

[Orian Tabris]

I would very much like the defining characteristics of classes in DA3 to be this:

A weapon's user is defined by the weapon's stat requirement/s (if any), not the user's class. Same deal with armour. Warriors require a crossbow in order to use ranged skills, while rogues require a bow. Each warrior, and each rogue, can only use one type of talent tree - ranged or melee, not both (every other tree can make use of both styles). A melee warrior can use a crossbow, but they can't use ranged talents - a ranged rogue has the opposite restriction. Dual-wield rogues can use a sword and shield but there aren't any talents to support their special mindedness. Some or all spells should require a staff.

Mages can use any weapon given they meet the stat requirements, but again, there aren't any talents to support them. Warriors and rogues can use staves, and mages can use everything else, but the damage is based on stats - magic (staves), dexterity (bows and daggers) and strength (crossbows and everything not mentioned). I'm not sure if dual-wield warriors should be using daggers before larger weapons, or if daggers should not affect their talents at all.

I want dual-wield warriors and archer warriors to make their return.

I've taken in to consideration that people like using the wrong weapons/armour, and so, ignored the fact that they'd struggle - or even be unable - to use them, if in real life.

Modifié par Orian Tabris, 25 avril 2012 - 12:50 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Same here. I want some variety in class. I think mages should be able to use weapons and warriors should be able to use ranged weapons. Rogues should be allowed to use swords but their benefits with them will be different from a warrior using a sword. For example the rogue would use the sword differently to deal more precise and speed-like blows and they'd still be rogue-like meaning they'd have to stay out of harm's way because they haven't the poise and resistance of the warrior.

[5trangeCase]

In classic RPG you'd always have the ranged rogue switching to a short sword and buckler when the enemies got too close, and the warriors would pull out a crossbow to fight enemies at range. Mages don't mess around much though...classic RPG mages didn't even use any kind of magical foci.

Personally I'd like to see a non-magical staff-wielding rogue.

[Reznik23]

More classes would be excellent, more than just the 3 rpg classics.
Thief, assassin, battlemage, swordspell, magical archer etc...if these were classes in themselves it'd give a lot more options with weapon & combat choices.

Something else that always bugged me weapon wise is why can't we use one handed swords two-handed? We should be able to switch between one & two handed grips depending on whether we want the extra power & control of two hands, or to hold a shield or dagger in the second hand. One handed & two handed swords are great but where are the bastard swords???

[Vormaerin]

Reznik23 wrote...

Something else that always bugged me weapon wise is why can't we use one handed swords two-handed? We should be able to switch between one & two handed grips depending on whether we want the extra power & control of two hands, or to hold a shield or dagger in the second hand. One handed & two handed swords are great but where are the bastard swords???

The problem there becomes one of game design.  While its probably not terribly difficult to have some kind of dreaded toggle, its a big problem for the skills/abilities system.  

First...if you have bastard swords you have to either assign them a cost (like D&D's exotic weapon proficiency) or explain why every character doesn't chose one.   If they are equal to or superior to the broadsword/shield or greatsword in their respective categories, no one will use the other weapons.

If, instead, the broadsword/shield and greatsword are better than the bastard sword in the respective fighting styles, no one will actually use one unless you actually manage to make a game where switching back and forth between fighting styles makes sense.

Its difficult to imagine a way in which  "full two handed maneuver tree" and "Full sword and board tree" are balanced against "switch back and forth."    The full 2hf will have more offensive stuff and the full s&b guy will have more tanky stuff.   Making 2nd best at two things equal to being first best at one thing is very hard to do.

[Reznik23]

Yep - good points.

Switching grips does work really well in Demon's/Dark Souls, but you're right: they do have very different combat mechanics & structure than the DA system.

[GithCheater]

I too like the idea of warriors being able to use a bow, but not being able to use talents related to a bow.

I prefer, whenever possible, not to have my warrior charge blindly into battle while dodging possible lethal traps. It would be nice for the warrior to be able to shoot a few arrows while the enemy closes rather than sit on his hands with one thumb pointing upward.

[wsandista]

Just have most weapons have attribute requirements like in DAO, worked well enough there.

Modifié par wsandista, 22 mai 2012 - 02:19 .

[Orian Tabris]

28 Days later. o.O

GithCheater wrote...

I too like the idea of warriors being able to use a bow, but not being able to use talents related to a bow.

I prefer, whenever possible, not to have my warrior charge blindly into battle while dodging possible lethal traps. It would be nice for the warrior to be able to shoot a few arrows while the enemy closes rather than sit on his hands with one thumb pointing upward.

Yeah, um, if you want to play a warrior like that, maybe you shouldn't be playing RPGs. I suggest playing action/adventure games instead.

[Its_a_Catdemon]

Orian Tabris wrote...

GithCheater wrote...

I too like the idea of warriors being able to use a bow, but not being able to use talents related to a bow.

I prefer, whenever possible, not to have my warrior charge blindly into battle while dodging possible lethal traps. It would be nice for the warrior to be able to shoot a few arrows while the enemy closes rather than sit on his hands with one thumb pointing upward.

Yeah, um, if you want to play a warrior like that, maybe you shouldn't be playing RPGs. I suggest playing action/adventure games instead.

What exactly is wrong with wanting to play a warrior like that? What makes it more action game and not RPG? You could do just that in DA:O, nothing anti-RPG about it, even if it's not how you play it. classes don't have to be total stereotypes all the time, being different is good.

Anyways, I agree with this thread's general idea of classes having more weapon variety. Especially having non-magic staves on warriors and rogues. Considering the new physical attacks and the multitude of bladed staves (which seem more like spears or polearms, a warrior staple the Dragon Age series is desperately missing) they would fit wonderfully, and make a lot more sense. This way anyone carrying one around isn't automatically a mage, so one can blend in and hide from Templars while carrying a polearm. (An idea I role-played in DA2 with my mage Hawke.) Maybe separate polearms and staves?

I like bastard swords, and the lack of them has bugged me, but the game design perspective is where they're less needed, what would their advantages and disadvantages be?

Mages wielding a variety of weapons sounds good too, a staff doesn't need to be required, and mages get by with just their hands for casting. Would look nice with some differences between party member equips, even within one class.

Modifié par Its_a_Catdemon, 23 mai 2012 - 11:29 .

[MrsMime]

Agreed. I felt that classes in DA:O had more versatility, and I was sad to see that go in DA2. I loved my dual longsword-wielding rogue and my crossbow-firing warrior!

[ChaosAgentLoki]

5trangeCase wrote...

Personally I'd like to see a non-magical staff-wielding rogue.

I'm shocked no one else has commented on this. I personally would love to see that in the Dragon Age series. That and the spears that the artwork for the Human Noble had for Origins! Why have spears disappeared from RPGs? Only Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest still offer them consistently!

Anyways, to the concept of distinguishing classes. I think that it can be a very good idea, but there should be penalties for using weapons outside of the classes typical range. For example, a mage loses a hefty amount of magical power, weakening their spells while using something other than their staff. Or, a warrior deals heavier damage, but misses more frequently while fighting with daggers. Things like this could balance the game out, while still giving the player options on what they want to equip their characters with, but prevent them from breaking the game (since Bioware can never truly balance these classes out).

[AkiKishi]

ChaosAgentLoki wrote...

5trangeCase wrote...

Personally I'd like to see a non-magical staff-wielding rogue.

I'm shocked no one else has commented on this. I personally would love to see that in the Dragon Age series. That and the spears that the artwork for the Human Noble had for Origins! Why have spears disappeared from RPGs? Only Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest still offer them consistently!

White Knight Chronicles, Disgaea, Generations of Chaos,Rune Factory. Plenty of games have spears.

It's down to the class based system and not wanting to do the animations.

Heres the Dragon Knight from WKC with spear.



That game has a ridiculous number of weapons and animations

[Reznik23]

Orian Tabris wrote...


A weapon's user is defined by the weapon's stat requirement/s (if any), not the user's class. Same deal with armour.

This really is the way it should be.

[GithCheater]

Orian Tabris wrote...

28 Days later. o.O

GithCheater wrote...

I too like the idea of warriors being able to use a bow, but not being able to use talents related to a bow.

I prefer, whenever possible, not to have my warrior charge blindly into battle while dodging possible lethal traps. It would be nice for the warrior to be able to shoot a few arrows while the enemy closes rather than sit on his hands with one thumb pointing upward.

Yeah, um, if you want to play a warrior like that, maybe you shouldn't be playing RPGs. I suggest playing action/adventure games instead.

Every  Bioware D&D game and Dragon Age allowed warriors to use a bow.  DA2 is the only exception.

Regarding your "28 days" comment, I must not have read the forum that day when this topic was mostly unnoticed.

I apologize for not reading the forum religiously every day.   

Modifié par GithCheater, 24 mai 2012 - 11:02 .