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[General Skidog]

Grimwick wrote...

General Skidog wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

People forget that Liara showed Shepard plenty of sympathy after Earth was hit and she did the same thing when Palevan got hit. This Liara hate pisses me off. Hell the bsn in general pisses me off

Every character has their vocal critics. Liara fans seem the most sensative about it though.

No, it's because Liara (and Ashley/Kaiden) haters are the most vocal and Liara fans respond to what we often see as a pointless, indirect attack on her. If it's just your opinion that you dislike her you don't need to shove it in everyone's face and argue that it is the only opinion of any worth.

If the arguments are not against the character but the 'plot armour' or the 'favouritism' then argue with BW, not the fans - it is not us who decided to give her (arguably) more content.

I remember when ME2 first came out, there seemed to be a Jack hate thread everyday... I'm a huge Jack fan, but it didn't bother me, i appreciated the complexity and how well done her character was, if other people didn't, so what! a bunch of hate threads wasn't going to stop me from enjoying that character.

Stop trying to play as the victim here, Those who didn't romance Liara are the victims. Not everyone likes Liara's character, yet Bioware didn't seem to take that into account, but decided to shove her down the players throat anyway, whilst sidelining the other LI's.

My problem isn't with Liara fan's, i'm not attacking them, if you like her, good for you!, everyone have different preferences, i expect that fact. I just want the other LI's to get her treatment.

You don't have to read the thread's that criticize Liara's character. I don't like Liara, so i don't read her fan threads. Simple.

[Grimwick]

dublin omega 223 wrote...

I don't count that as Liara should have been able to be killed before that maybe in LTSB, and Shepard does count as like or not, Shepard died in ME2. And alot of my friends and family agree with me, I'm just bringing it up to see what you all think.

EDI can only die at the end too, so does that 'not count' by everyone's arbitrary definitions? You even quoted her excuse as being able to die at the end...

[dublin omega 223]

General Skidog wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

General Skidog wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

People forget that Liara showed Shepard plenty of sympathy after Earth was hit and she did the same thing when Palevan got hit. This Liara hate pisses me off. Hell the bsn in general pisses me off

Every character has their vocal critics. Liara fans seem the most sensative about it though.

No, it's because Liara (and Ashley/Kaiden) haters are the most vocal and Liara fans respond to what we often see as a pointless, indirect attack on her. If it's just your opinion that you dislike her you don't need to shove it in everyone's face and argue that it is the only opinion of any worth.

If the arguments are not against the character but the 'plot armour' or the 'favouritism' then argue with BW, not the fans - it is not us who decided to give her (arguably) more content.

I remember when ME2 first came out, there seemed to be a Jack hate thread everyday... I'm a huge Jack fan, but it didn't bother me, i appreciated the complexity and how well done her character was, if other people didn't, so what! a bunch of hate threads wasn't going to stop me from enjoying that character.

Stop trying to play as the victim here, Those who didn't romance Liara are the victims. Not everyone likes Liara's character, yet Bioware didn't seem to take that into account, but decided to shove her down the players throat anyway, whilst sidelining the other LI's.

My problem isn't with Liara fan's, i'm not attacking them, if you like her, good for you!, everyone have different preferences, i expect that fact. I just want the other LI's to get her treatment.

You don't have to read the thread's that criticize Liara's character. I don't like Liara, so i don't read her fan threads. Simple.

I agree with you 100%, I'm not attacking Liara fans for their opinion either, just making some points.

[General Skidog]

Grimwick wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...

A lot of people think its stupid that Liara is the only character in the series who cant be killed and I agree, its not right.

EDI/Joker/Anderson/Shepard

Wait? You don't agree with Shepard on that list? Same reasoning though.

EDI is the ship and only a squad member for one game, but she dies in the destroy ending, Joker is a pilot NOT a squad member. Pretty sure Anderson was shot died in my play through, but again he is NOT a squad member, and Shepard is the main protaganist... but he can be killed off in the suicide mission and in various endings.

[Volc19]

You would think that the Shadow Broker would be a little more controlled. Garrus and Vega saw their planets burn. Everyone has seen their species as a twisted reaper foot-soldier. "Oh Goddess, I still can't get over the fact that my people were turned into those monsters!" "Javik, the truth is YOUR FAULT!" "I'm going to cry in my cabin now, my planet just fell just like everyone else's planets." Would you like some cheese with your whine, Liara? I swear, i can't bring her anywhere without Javik's biting sarcasm by my side.

[EricHVela]

General Skidog wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...

A lot of people think its stupid that Liara is the only character in the series who cant be killed and I agree, its not right.

EDI/Joker/Anderson/Shepard

Wait? You don't agree with Shepard on that list? Same reasoning though.

EDI is the ship and only a squad member for one game, but she dies in the destroy ending, Joker is a pilot NOT a squad member. Pretty sure Anderson was shot died in my play through, but again he is NOT a squad member, and Shepard is the main protaganist... but he can be killed off in the suicide mission and in various endings.

In one short part of ME2, Joker is the squad.

Yet, I think it's silly to expect Joker to die (but he might actually die given the extreme low EMS ending where you see nobody exit the SR-2).

You can see Liara dead if you take her with you to the beam with extremely low EMS. (It was strangely satisfying to see her and Kaidan in pools of blood. They get replaced with generic soldiers if the EMS is higher.)

[Grimwick]

dublin omega 223 wrote...

I agree with you 100%, I'm not attacking Liara fans for their opinion either, just making some points.

I probably attacked you without cause here, sorry, it's mostly that disliking a character because they are unable to be killed is unjustified - whether the option should be there or not, it is not the character you should blame for that.

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

A lot of people just don't get the simple fact that this is *real* character of Liara. She is quite emotional and crybaby.
She just started to act tough between ME1 and ME2 (since Shep's death) in attempt to kill her emotions, thinking that it will make her life less painful. After that she's been through a lot and this kind of worked, so it became her primary face.
So a lot of people think that this is her real character and surprised when they see glimpses of "Liara-ME1 original".

But I agree that it's annoying to people who totally right that Liara totally BW pet in ME3 and steals majority of screen time. 

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 14 mai 2012 - 08:31 .

[dublin omega 223]

Grimwick wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...

I agree with you 100%, I'm not attacking Liara fans for their opinion either, just making some points.

I probably attacked you without cause here, sorry, it's mostly that disliking a character because they are unable to be killed is unjustified - whether the option should be there or not, it is not the character you should blame for that.

No need to be sorry, I understand people are passionate in their opinons, I know that better then most.

[General Skidog]

Grimwick wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...

I agree with you 100%, I'm not attacking Liara fans for their opinion either, just making some points.

I probably attacked you without cause here, sorry, it's mostly that disliking a character because they are unable to be killed is unjustified - whether the option should be there or not, it is not the character you should blame for that.

That's the whole point. I don't like her character, i've disliked it since ME1, that cooped with the fact she has plot armour and received preferential treatment with the writers is the problem.

Bioware gives all LI's the Liara treatment = no problem.

Modifié par General Skidog, 14 mai 2012 - 08:18 .

[Grimwick]

General Skidog wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

General Skidog wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

People forget that Liara showed Shepard plenty of sympathy after Earth was hit and she did the same thing when Palevan got hit. This Liara hate pisses me off. Hell the bsn in general pisses me off

Every character has their vocal critics. Liara fans seem the most sensative about it though.

No, it's because Liara (and Ashley/Kaiden) haters are the most vocal and Liara fans respond to what we often see as a pointless, indirect attack on her. If it's just your opinion that you dislike her you don't need to shove it in everyone's face and argue that it is the only opinion of any worth.

If the arguments are not against the character but the 'plot armour' or the 'favouritism' then argue with BW, not the fans - it is not us who decided to give her (arguably) more content.

I remember when ME2 first came out, there seemed to be a Jack hate thread everyday... I'm a huge Jack fan, but it didn't bother me, i appreciated the complexity and how well done her character was, if other people didn't, so what! a bunch of hate threads wasn't going to stop me from enjoying that character.

Stop trying to play as the victim here, Those who didn't romance Liara are the victims. Not everyone likes Liara's character, yet Bioware didn't seem to take that into account, but decided to shove her down the players throat anyway, whilst sidelining the other LI's.

My problem isn't with Liara fan's, i'm not attacking them, if you like her, good for you!, everyone have different preferences, i expect that fact. I just want the other LI's to get her treatment.

And I agree that other characters got a short straw. Liara's romance isn't perfect by a long shot but you are definitely right when you say it got the most content - and I genuinely would support any attempts at equalising this.
If you want the other characters to get the same treatment then the way to argue that isn't to directly attack Liara or her character for it, attacking Liara makes it seem like a personal attack on anyone who likes her.

I don't get involved in hate threads, even with characters I dislike, and I tend to see them as rude as insulting somebody's friend or wife directly (please don't extrapolate that example). But this is the internet so hey, you're welcome to bash somebody but don't be surprised if they feel you insult them.

Modifié par Grimwick, 14 mai 2012 - 08:19 .

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

General Skidog wrote...
Bioware gives all LI's the Liara treatment = no problem.

To be fair, she and Ashley were treated awfully in ME2. That's mainly why I understand how people with ME2 LIs feel now. Well, at least Liara got LotSB at the end..
Hopefully more ME3 DLCs will come for other characters to expand.

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 14 mai 2012 - 08:22 .

[KotorEffect3]

Volc19 wrote...

You would think that the Shadow Broker would be a little more controlled. Garrus and Vega saw their planets burn. Everyone has seen their species as a twisted reaper foot-soldier. "Oh Goddess, I still can't get over the fact that my people were turned into those monsters!" "Javik, the truth is YOUR FAULT!" "I'm going to cry in my cabin now, my planet just fell just like everyone else's planets." Would you like some cheese with your whine, Liara? I swear, i can't bring her anywhere without Javik's biting sarcasm by my side.

Garrus and Vega are soldiers you can't expect Liara just to swallow her emotions like they can.

[KotorEffect3]

ReggarBlane wrote...

General Skidog wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...

A lot of people think its stupid that Liara is the only character in the series who cant be killed and I agree, its not right.

EDI/Joker/Anderson/Shepard

Wait? You don't agree with Shepard on that list? Same reasoning though.

EDI is the ship and only a squad member for one game, but she dies in the destroy ending, Joker is a pilot NOT a squad member. Pretty sure Anderson was shot died in my play through, but again he is NOT a squad member, and Shepard is the main protaganist... but he can be killed off in the suicide mission and in various endings.

In one short part of ME2, Joker is the squad.

Yet, I think it's silly to expect Joker to die (but he might actually die given the extreme low EMS ending where you see nobody exit the SR-2).

You can see Liara dead if you take her with you to the beam with extremely low EMS. (It was strangely satisfying to see her and Kaidan in pools of blood. They get replaced with generic soldiers if the EMS is higher.)

I will never understand this mentality.  "I don't like a character so I want to see them in a pool of blood though I have no reasonable in game reasons to hate them."  What the hell is wrong with the bsn?

[Grimwick]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

General Skidog wrote...
Bioware gives all LI's the Liara treatment = no problem.

To be fair, she and Ashley were treated awfully in ME2. That's mainly why I understand how people with ME2 LIs feel now. Well, at least Liara got LotSB at the end..
Hopefully more ME3 DLCs will come for other characters to expand.

Definitely, Liara pre-LotSB was a dreadful disappointment. Thank goodness it was made up for by one of the best dlcs I've ever played.

I definitely know how ME2-mancers feel and i would support them in efforts to improve this any day.

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I will never understand this mentality.  "I don't like a character so I want to see them in a pool of blood though I have no reasonable in game reasons to hate them."  What the hell is wrong with the bsn?

Personally I have no issue with people like that. Actually I like when game caters to choice more, even if you can be shocked by this choice. 

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 14 mai 2012 - 08:33 .

[KotorEffect3]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I will never understand this mentality.  "I don't like a character so I want to see them in a pool of blood though I have no reasonable in game reasons to hate them."  What the hell is wrong with the bsn?

Personally I have no issue with people like that. Actually I like when game caters to choice more, even if you can be shocked by this choice. 

I am not arguing with choice,  I just don't understand the mentality of wanting to see someone dead that doesn't deserve it.

[Beerfish]

The asari got taken down a full notch in ME3, a very nice job of the writers and BioWare in that regard. They were the beacons of light in the 1st couple of games. Long lives, smart, 1st to the citadel. Even the Asari mother on illuim that railed against all other races after she lost her daughters in the geth attack.

Then they find out with a cold glass of water in the face they were guided along by the protheans and had partaken int he huge galactic betrayl of having prothean tech that they hid from everyone else.

I think Liara was just as gob smacked at her own race and her failed conceptions of the Protheans as the disaster on the home world.

[EricHVela]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

General Skidog wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...

A lot of people think its stupid that Liara is the only character in the series who cant be killed and I agree, its not right.

EDI/Joker/Anderson/Shepard

Wait? You don't agree with Shepard on that list? Same reasoning though.

EDI is the ship and only a squad member for one game, but she dies in the destroy ending, Joker is a pilot NOT a squad member. Pretty sure Anderson was shot died in my play through, but again he is NOT a squad member, and Shepard is the main protaganist... but he can be killed off in the suicide mission and in various endings.

In one short part of ME2, Joker is the squad.

Yet, I think it's silly to expect Joker to die (but he might actually die given the extreme low EMS ending where you see nobody exit the SR-2).

You can see Liara dead if you take her with you to the beam with extremely low EMS. (It was strangely satisfying to see her and Kaidan in pools of blood. They get replaced with generic soldiers if the EMS is higher.)

I will never understand this mentality.  "I don't like a character so I want to see them in a pool of blood though I have no reasonable in game reasons to hate them."  What the hell is wrong with the bsn?

Hate them? Nah. I usually save Kaidan both times if I can. Yet, there was just something about him dead.

Maybe it was because Kaidan stayed by Shepard's side until the end. I guess Liara finally grew a backbone, too.

Don't assume too much.

[thinicer]

You know what's a lot worse than Liara's whining?

Gamers whining about video game characters whining.

[General Skidog]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

General Skidog wrote...
Bioware gives all LI's the Liara treatment = no problem.

To be fair, she and Ashley were treated awfully in ME2. That's mainly why I understand how people with ME2 LIs feel now. Well, at least Liara got LotSB at the end..
Hopefully more ME3 DLCs will come for other characters to expand.

Well, to be fair on BioWare i think the initial intention was to try and tempt people into romancing someone else, so there would be some kind of conflict and friction between the your LI's in ME3. This was actually the one of the things i was most looking forward too in ME3. Jack vs Ash.

But they obvioulsy scraped this idea...

[General Skidog]

thinicer wrote...

You know what's a lot worse than Liara's whining?

Gamers whining about video game characters whining.

And you know whats alot, ALOT more worse than gamers whining about video game characters whining?

Gamers whining about gamers whining about video game characters whining!






whineception!

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

General Skidog wrote...

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

General Skidog wrote...
Bioware gives all LI's the Liara treatment = no problem.

To be fair, she and Ashley were treated awfully in ME2. That's mainly why I understand how people with ME2 LIs feel now. Well, at least Liara got LotSB at the end..
Hopefully more ME3 DLCs will come for other characters to expand.

Well, to be fair on BioWare i think the initial intention was to try and tempt people into romancing someone else, so there would be some kind of conflict and friction between the your LI's in ME3. This was actually the one of the things i was most looking forward too in ME3. Jack vs Ash.

But they obvioulsy scraped this idea...

Yeah, I remember. They were bragging as usual "people who didn't stay faithful will get very negative consequences, oooohhh". Then I checked out of interest what really happens - what do you guess, almost zero difference. Well, as with many other major choices. This is ME3 people, choice matters. Well, it actually barely even matters in Shep's daily life if you romanced Liara at all... Because game totally treats it like everybody romanced her - I totally understand the hate.

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 14 mai 2012 - 08:49 .

[Demoiselle]

Realisticlly it made sense for someone to react to their homeworld being destroyed.

On a meta-level, it could be kind of annoying. The entire Thessia missions dilalogue seemed to be Liaras angsting, the squaddies comforting her and everyone acting like Thessia affected them ten times more than when their own planets were invaded. I really didn't care much for the Asari (and so the prothean beacon pleased me very much XD) and it just annoyed me that the planet full of 'bisexual-blue-alien-babes' was the one we were supposed to angst over the most.

Do not rant about straight-male-gamer target audience, do not rant about straight-male-gamer target audience....

[lil yonce]

I don't think it's completely fair to say she's whining after Thessia, but she's crossing into some tricky touchy-feely emotional territory that may come off badly to a Shepard who has seen this done to their own planet and resolved to do something about it, or to someone who is just sick of seeing her designated-crier-breakdown-mode.

I'm fine with Liara's reaction to the loss of Thessia, it's natural and in character, but I don't like that she manages to dump a bucket of tears on Shepard two games in a row. In ME2 DLC when she became the Shadow Broker. And now in ME3, after Thessia. After comforting her in her room for the second time, I was a bit annoyed, I thought, "Man, she did it to me again!".

You can book it, she'll cry on Shepard's shoulder for a third time in future ME content. I'm booking it for an EC reunion scene.

But as bad as I felt after Thessia, I felt even worse after visiting Chakwas... I hadn't talked to her since completing her medical supplies side quest on the Citadel, and post-Thessia, she kicked her feet up and popped open a big bottle of brandy in the med-bay. Oops. I felt low, sitting across the hall from a forlorn Liara, laughing and tipping a couple with the doctor right after the Asari homeworld went down.