276 réponses à ce sujet

[tractrpl]

HopHazzard wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

I don't really mind her reaction to Thessia because she is a much more emotional than most of the other characters. The one thing that got me on Thessia was when she was saying "Maybe next time the Alliance can send us some air support." Really? Where were the asari when the reapers attacked Earth? Because they certainly weren't providing air support.

I think you're misunderstanding the comment.  She's just enjoying the unusual experience of having a gunship on her side.

I see what you're saying. That does make sense. The banshee thing still bothers me though.

I was wondering what you're talking about. I never remember her complaining about the lack of Air Support. I always took it as "hey they're awesome!" I guess you guys aren't used to having a woman talk to you. Just saying.

[ryuasiu]

tractrpl wrote...

Cpt. Howdy wrote...

Her reaction to the fall of Thessia is understandable. The problem with Liara is that she is just overly present and the conversations with her are horribly overdone. It really gets annoying pretty soon.

Just for the record: I don't hate Liara, I just wished Bioware would have accepted that not everyone cares about her and stopped forcing her on the player. At least some renegade dialogue options or interruptions would have been nice.

I suppose they don't expect even Renegade players to say "Hey, Liara, you know genocide? I'm totally for it!"

It does not have to be that. He could be a bosh'tet and be like "suck it up Liara, I saw my planet burn and I did not cry like a *****" Something like that. 

[tractrpl]

Cpt. Howdy wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

I suppose they don't expect even Renegade players to say "Hey, Liara, you know genocide? I'm totally for it!"

Fair enough, then how about: "Earth and Palavan are not doing to good either, so get your sh*t together like the rest of us and focus an the mission!"

I suppose you don't remember Vega crying over Earth? Or Garrus crying about wishing he was on Palavan and worrying about his family? Why is it when a woman says it it's whining, but when a dude says it he's just "showing his humanity"?

[tractrpl]

ryuasiu wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

Cpt. Howdy wrote...

Her reaction to the fall of Thessia is understandable. The problem with Liara is that she is just overly present and the conversations with her are horribly overdone. It really gets annoying pretty soon.

Just for the record: I don't hate Liara, I just wished Bioware would have accepted that not everyone cares about her and stopped forcing her on the player. At least some renegade dialogue options or interruptions would have been nice.

I suppose they don't expect even Renegade players to say "Hey, Liara, you know genocide? I'm totally for it!"

It does not have to be that. He could be a bosh'tet and be like "suck it up Liara, I saw my planet burn and I did not cry like a *****" Something like that. 

Except he did cry like a little ****.

[TMA LIVE]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

"Oh my planet just fell and my people are being turned into monsters! Woe is me!" Newsflash Liara: that just happened to all of us, and it was just as traumatic. Buck up, move on, and get revenge.

It happened to her last. She was hoping she'd save them before that ever happened.

Can you blame her for hoping that?

And then she failed to do that. Thessia finally got hit.

[Goneaviking]

ryuasiu wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

The whole point of Shepard's running around is to bring help to Earth. Garrus' people make a point of refusing to help Shepard out until they bring reinforcements to help their resistance to the Reapers. The Krogan will only pitch in if they think you've cured the genocidal disease that was created to hobble their population. But Thessia just fell over, and instead of being preoccupied with bolstering their own defences the asari commit their forces to the crucible project and Earth.

Yes I realize that team Hackett's plan is the best shot of saving everyone, but it's inconceivable to me that it wouldn't (or shouldn't) make Liara question what was so damned special about the pink skin interlopers that everyone else has to drop their plans for self-defense to run off and fight for Earth.

All things considered she got over it pretty quickly. Particularly since aside from Tali she's the only teammate that isn't military and trained to suck it up and concentrate on the plan, and Tali's story arch is either "give me a homeworld, or I'll kill myself" so yeah.

Whining quarians and their bellyaches.

Ummm...she only kills herself after watching her people die. Her people are pretty much gone and shes problebly going to be one of 100 Quarions left . Some do not come back to the fleet after pilgrimage so ahundred or more might still be around, but I would not put that number of ones left above 100. Atleast with the baterians there could be atleast 1-2 million to repopulate (just my guess, could be more, but I don't see less then that). I do not see the quarians being able repopulate with 100 survivors. 

I dare you to tell Javik he has a 'bellyache' about all his people being dead and wanting to kill himself after the mission is over

Yeah, in that scenario she was dealt a terrible hand. To my mind that makes those last few dozen quarians more vulnerable and in need of protection. I can't see Wrex or Garrus tossing themselves off of a cliff at this point, even though they'd clearly be devastated it's easy to see them rounding up the last members of their species and making plans to ensure they didn't simply cease to exist.

But like I said Tali, and Liara, aren't meant to be tough as nails and they're not meant to be as doggedly focused characters as the other team members who all chose a life of duty and violence instead of being swept along by events far greater than themselves.

As for Javik. I don't recall him whining or getting suicidal, he's just learned that his entire species has been extinct for 50,000 years ago and commits himself to stopping the cycle and avenging the perversion inflicted upon them.

[Cpt. Howdy]

ryuasiu wrote...

I think Steve was more overdone then Liara was. I am not sure if it was the actor or the writting but it just seemed like he needed to take it down a level. If I got married and lost my husband I would be sad sure but I would not be THAT over the top about it. Though maybe that is just me, I would be more angry then anything and would problebly just let my hate fuel me in the war against the Reapers.

Yeah, you're right; Steve was also a bit overdone. But a least he doesn't walk into Shepard's cabin as he pleases and the conversations with him don't feel like you're romancing him, no matter if you actually do or not.

[Seryl]

Couple points.

1. Liara has been portrayed as more emotional than the rest of the group since ME1. Her taking the loss of her planet harder than other is in keeping with her character. Even if she wasn't more emotional ...

2. Liara may have been through more than most people, but she is not military. Both Shepard and Garrus are. They have been trained to put aside emotional reactions in order to accomplish a goal. Shepard is starting to feel the strain of that training towards the end of the game. Liara, as badass as she may or may not be, does not have the benefit of that kind of training. She will suffer that kind of loss harder than those that have been either trained (Shepard, Garrus, Javik, Wrex, Ashley, Kaiden, James), been through lots of other problems (Jack, Miranda, Tali) or just don't have the same reactions (Legion).

Short answer, her reaction is believable and it isn't "whining".

[BatmanPWNS]

Cpt. Howdy wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

I think Steve was more overdone then Liara was. I am not sure if it was the actor or the writting but it just seemed like he needed to take it down a level. If I got married and lost my husband I would be sad sure but I would not be THAT over the top about it. Though maybe that is just me, I would be more angry then anything and would problebly just let my hate fuel me in the war against the Reapers.

Yeah, you're right; Steve was also a bit overdone. But a least he doesn't walk into Shepard's cabin as he pleases and the conversations with him don't feel like you're romancing him, no matter if you actually do or not.

If Steve could come in your cabin anytime, all the homophobe would accuse him of trying to have sex with them. LOL

[tractrpl]

The only difference between Liara's and Garrus's reaction to the same events is that Garrus and the Primarch said it in a manly "badassly" voice. If you remove the voices and just read their lines they'd be damn near identical.

[Aggie Punbot]

To be honest, I'm less inclined to sympathize with Liara due to the fact that the asari had the means to prevent this whole situation with the reapers and chose to do nothing except promote their own (undeserved) reputation. The entire galaxy is at risk of being exterminated because the asari were selfish; hence, the destruction of Thessia isn't really as tragic as the destruction of, say, Palaven. Or Earth.

The asari knew about this when Shepard first told them about the reapers and chose to do nothing. They knew about it when the reapers started attacking Earth and stayed silent. They knew about it when Palaven was getting demolished and chose to keep the information about the reapers to themselves. They saw everyone around them suffering and chose to do absolutely nothing until their own homeworld was threatened. I hate the asari almost as much as the quarians.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 25 avril 2012 - 10:15 .

[GLR-0053]

Seryl wrote...

Couple points.

1. Liara has been portrayed as more emotional than the rest of the group since ME1. Her taking the loss of her planet harder than other is in keeping with her character. Even if she wasn't more emotional ...

2. Liara may have been through more than most people, but she is not military. Both Shepard and Garrus are. They have been trained to put aside emotional reactions in order to accomplish a goal. Shepard is starting to feel the strain of that training towards the end of the game. Liara, as badass as she may or may not be, does not have the benefit of that kind of training. She will suffer that kind of loss harder than those that have been either trained (Shepard, Garrus, Javik, Wrex, Ashley, Kaiden, James), been through lots of other problems (Jack, Miranda, Tali) or just don't have the same reactions (Legion).

Short answer, her reaction is believable and it isn't "whining".

You remember that moment when Kai Leng (supposedly) kicked your ass and then afterwards you see the Reapers landing? Why did Liara comfort Shepard, instead of it being the other way around?

[Cpt. Howdy]

tractrpl wrote...

I suppose you don't remember Vega crying over Earth? Or Garrus crying about wishing he was on Palavan and worrying about his family? Why is it when a woman says it it's whining, but when a dude says it he's just "showing his humanity"?

There is nothing wrong with her crying about the destruction of Thessia. Like I said; her reaction is understandable. I only said that I would have liked some renegade dialogue options during the conversations with her. I wasn't referring to this particular situation but it would have made sense.

[Nightwriter]

I got the impression that, while Earth and Palaven were hit really hard, Thessia actually fell. As in, little to no hope of recovery. Which is why, when Shepard gives Liara the pep talk, he says something like "Thessia is gone, but it's not too late for the asari." Or something.

[tractrpl]

TS2Aggie wrote...

To be honest, I'm less inclined to sympathize with Liara due to the fact that the asari had the means to prevent this whole situation with the reapers and chose to do nothing except promote their own (undeserved) reputation. The entire galaxy is at risk of being exterminated because the asari were selfish; hence, the destruction of Thessia isn't really as tragic as the destruction of, say, Palaven. Or Earth.

The asari knew about this when Shepard first told them about the reapers and chose to do nthing. They knew about it when the reapers started attacking Earth and stayed silent. They knew about it when Palaven was getting demolished and chose to keep the information about the reapers to themselves. They saw everyone around them suffering and chose to do absolutely nothing until their own homeworld was threatened. I hate the asari almost as much as the quarians.

You seem to forget the "Ah yes, "Reapers"" Turians or the "Hey let's split off from the alliance and make it much more difficult to fight the Reapers" Cerberus.  I see the Asari as no more deserving of their fate then any of the other races.

[SilentPredator]

I love Liara, she's my second favorite character after Garrus. That said, there's a line she says on Thessia that for some reason always just rubs me the wrong way.

"Next time we go to war, how about the Alliance springs for air support?"

I get that she's just trying to make a joke to lighten the tension, but damn that always pisses me off. The implication, joking or not, that the Alliance is sitting on its thumbs halfway across the galaxy while the Asari pilots die to protect us or that the Asari are somehow doing us a favor by protecting their own planet is just garbage. I'm probably reading too much into it, but every time I hear that line it gets under my skin.

[Aggie Punbot]

tractrpl wrote...

You seem to forget the "Ah yes, "Reapers"" Turians or the "Hey let's split off from the alliance and make it much more difficult to fight the Reapers" Cerberus.  I see the Asari as no more deserving of their fate then any of the other races.

The difference is that the turians had no actual kowledge of the reapers beforehand; the asari did and chose to let everyone else suffer to protect their own selfish interests and only admitted to this knowledge when it was too late to save anyone.

As for Cerberus, they were led by an indoctrinated TIM, so I can see why they wouldn't be helping humanity.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 25 avril 2012 - 10:17 .

[ryuasiu]

Goneaviking wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

The whole point of Shepard's running around is to bring help to Earth. Garrus' people make a point of refusing to help Shepard out until they bring reinforcements to help their resistance to the Reapers. The Krogan will only pitch in if they think you've cured the genocidal disease that was created to hobble their population. But Thessia just fell over, and instead of being preoccupied with bolstering their own defences the asari commit their forces to the crucible project and Earth.

Yes I realize that team Hackett's plan is the best shot of saving everyone, but it's inconceivable to me that it wouldn't (or shouldn't) make Liara question what was so damned special about the pink skin interlopers that everyone else has to drop their plans for self-defense to run off and fight for Earth.

All things considered she got over it pretty quickly. Particularly since aside from Tali she's the only teammate that isn't military and trained to suck it up and concentrate on the plan, and Tali's story arch is either "give me a homeworld, or I'll kill myself" so yeah.

Whining quarians and their bellyaches.

Ummm...she only kills herself after watching her people die. Her people are pretty much gone and shes problebly going to be one of 100 Quarions left . Some do not come back to the fleet after pilgrimage so ahundred or more might still be around, but I would not put that number of ones left above 100. Atleast with the baterians there could be atleast 1-2 million to repopulate (just my guess, could be more, but I don't see less then that). I do not see the quarians being able repopulate with 100 survivors. 

I dare you to tell Javik he has a 'bellyache' about all his people being dead and wanting to kill himself after the mission is over

Yeah, in that scenario she was dealt a terrible hand. To my mind that makes those last few dozen quarians more vulnerable and in need of protection. I can't see Wrex or Garrus tossing themselves off of a cliff at this point, even though they'd clearly be devastated it's easy to see them rounding up the last members of their species and making plans to ensure they didn't simply cease to exist.

But like I said Tali, and Liara, aren't meant to be tough as nails and they're not meant to be as doggedly focused characters as the other team members who all chose a life of duty and violence instead of being swept along by events far greater than themselves.

As for Javik. I don't recall him whining or getting suicidal, he's just learned that his entire species has been extinct for 50,000 years ago and commits himself to stopping the cycle and avenging the perversion inflicted upon them.

If you talk to Javik on earth he tells you he has plans to go to the planet where he killed his indoc squad mates and end his life. He says "It is as it should be" 
www.youtube.com/watch

[HopHazzard]

tractrpl wrote...

I was wondering what you're talking about. I never remember her complaining about the lack of Air Support. I always took it as "hey they're awesome!" I guess you guys aren't used to having a woman talk to you. Just saying.

Not sure what you mean. I work at a nursing home. My whole day is women talking to me.

Modifié par HopHazzard, 25 avril 2012 - 10:20 .

[GuardianAngel470]

My problem with her behavior is 1) the surprise and 2) the lack of basic social skills necessary to voice that surprise.

If a train crashes and hundreds are killed, that's bad. If your friend's mother and your mother were both on the train and you aren't sure if they are among the dead, that sucks.

If you then find out that your friend's mom died on the train and you console them, great. But if you then find out that your mother was also killed and your reaction is one of disbelief, that's insensitive. It's insensitive because you inadvertantly disrespect the loss of your friend's mom. It implies that the loss of his mom was reasonable, if sad, but the loss of your mom was beyond anticipation, impossible.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Whiners whining about whiners whining about whiners. It's whineception!

All in all, I am disappoint by this thread though. Usually these Liara threads are popcorn-worthy, but this one was just boring. For shame BSN, I expect better.

[Gwtheyrn]

Naerivar wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Naerivar wrote...

Soo, because someone else has it just as bad as you, you don't get a right to break down?

Soo, why do you ever complain about your food if there are people that don't even eat food on a regular basis?
Why do you whine about whining when there are actually people who have a reason to whine?

Hypocrite is acting like a ...

...I don't complain about food because I know I have it luckier than most people. Also, if I'm at a resturant my orders are so simple that it would take someone with STML to forget it. She just needs to soldier on man. She's not dead, she gets to fight another day. Which is more than most of the population of Thessia can say.

You do realise that you're whining about Liara whining, right? You're saying that she should soldier on. However, you are making posts on the forums about her whining. It surely sounds hypocrital to me...

If anything I always thought that Liara was way to stand-off ish after Thessia got steamrolled. Just like all other people with their respective homeworlds.

I bet she actually thought that the Asari Republic would beat the Reapers on their own, being the most advanced society and all.

[Cpt. Howdy]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

My problem with her behavior is 1) the surprise and 2) the lack of basic social skills necessary to voice that surprise.

If a train crashes and hundreds are killed, that's bad. If your friend's mother and your mother were both on the train and you aren't sure if they are among the dead, that sucks.

If you then find out that your friend's mom died on the train and you console them, great. But if you then find out that your mother was also killed and your reaction is one of disbelief, that's insensitive. It's insensitive because you inadvertantly disrespect the loss of your friend's mom. It implies that the loss of his mom was reasonable, if sad, but the loss of your mom was beyond anticipation, impossible.

That is a quite analytic approach to a very emotional situation. Human thought processes don't work that way when being confronted with something like that.

[Goneaviking]

ryuasiu wrote...

If you talk to Javik on earth he tells you he has plans to go to the planet where he killed his indoc squad mates and end his life. He says "It is as it should be" 
www.youtube.com/watch

As in... after the successful conclusion of the war against the reapers. He didn't immediately seek the nearest tall object to throw himself off when he learned he was the last living member of his species. Javik doesn't do emo.