276 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolven_Soul]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

"Oh my planet just fell and my people are being turned into monsters! Woe is me!" Newsflash Liara: that just happened to all of us, and it was just as traumatic. Buck up, move on, and get revenge.

So she is not allowed to have a moment where she falls apart before she pulls herself back together?  That is the moment when the war first really hits home for her.  That is going to be hard on anyone.

[Zkyire]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

"Oh my planet just fell and my people are being turned into monsters! Woe is me!" Newsflash Liara: that just happened to all of us, and it was just as traumatic. Buck up, move on, and get revenge.

Liara wasn't whining this is whining!

[dragonflight288]

I honestly don't get all the hate for the asari and people saying the asari knew about the Reapers and did nothing. We are talking about a people who only the highest levels of the government knew the secret of the temple, and Liara outright states that most asari no longer follow that goddess's path or religious beliefs. Most DON'T know about the Prothean beacon. And we don't know how much information on the Reapers was in there that the asari could actually understand. Sheperd finds it because of the Cipher, and Javic can find it because....he's a prothean.

And the humans had the archives on mars as well. That had the crucible, the asari had the catalyst, and both had those for many years. Thousands of years in the case of the asari, decades in the case of the humans. The asari are the most advanced race in the Citadel, but how much of that is directly from the beacon compared to indvidual private asari businesses taking existing technology from the beacon and improving upon it on their own?

I find that people blame the whole species for the actions of the government that Liara, even as the Shadow Broker, didn't have access to, absurd. As for Liara's whining, it's one thing to try and comfort a friend or lover when they suffer, it's not pleasant, but it's another thing entirely to be face to face with your own races corruption, both reaper and government. Liara has to come to terms with it very fast, learning that everything she had ever been taught growing up was fabricated, seeing what the Reapers are doing to her people (we've known what they've done to humans for years now, although initially thought to be the geth, so people are more psychologically prepared for that).

I thought she was in character. At least with James and Garrus, they didn't have to deal with the fact that their government was lying to them for centuries. Well, all governments lie to people all the time, it's an accepted fact about politicians. But in the case of the asari, who authored the compromise of military strength and started the Citadel Council, they're the ones who did have a prothean beacon kept secret from the rest of the galaxy.

But in the end, even that didn't save them. Had they shared it, everyone would have been better prepared, but it still wouldn't have saved the galaxy. And not every asari knows the truth about it. Most are just trying to survive their 1000 year lifespan and not get killed by the reapers, caring about their loved ones. Like any other race.

[Jymm]

Hmm. I thought that Garrus being all John Wayne about Palaven while Liara seemed devastated was really just appropriate characterization. As someone earlier pointed out, her character is consistent in that she seems pretty upset about Palaven early in the game and she's only seeing it from space. When it becomes face-to-face for her on her own homeworld she is temporarily incapacitated with despair. It works, in my opinion.

If you don't like her whining, then you probably don't like her character, and that's OK. I wanted to toss Javik out the airlock, and I respect the writers for making him vivid enough that I wanted to kick his @ss. Far better than a character I don't care at all about either way. (Jacob is my personal example there.)

[tractrpl]

Jymm wrote...

Hmm. I thought that Garrus being all John Wayne about Palaven while Liara seemed devastated was really just appropriate characterization. As someone earlier pointed out, her character is consistent in that she seems pretty upset about Palaven early in the game and she's only seeing it from space. When it becomes face-to-face for her on her own homeworld she is temporarily incapacitated with despair. It works, in my opinion.

If you don't like her whining, then you probably don't like her character, and that's OK. I wanted to toss Javik out the airlock, and I respect the writers for making him vivid enough that I wanted to kick his @ss. Far better than a character I don't care at all about either way. (Jacob is my personal example there.)

But she wasn't incapacitated during the mission, as is expected of good soldiers.

[CmdrSlander]

Her life is defined by loss* though, maybe she'd reached the breaking point.

*Evidence:
-Father: Estranged
-Mother: Died horribly and she watched it happen
-Shepard: Ditto, but s/he returned
-General emotional trauma from having to regularly kill people, not as hardened as a merc or career soldier.
-She just found out everything she believed about her culture is tainted or a lie.

[Dean_the_Young]

tractrpl wrote...

Cpt. Howdy wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

I suppose they don't expect even Renegade players to say "Hey, Liara, you know genocide? I'm totally for it!"

Fair enough, then how about: "Earth and Palavan are not doing to good either, so get your sh*t together like the rest of us and focus an the mission!"

I suppose you don't remember Vega crying over Earth? Or Garrus crying about wishing he was on Palavan and worrying about his family? Why is it when a woman says it it's whining, but when a dude says it he's just "showing his humanity"?

The lack of denial?

Neither Vega or Garrus were going through 'my world view is shattered!' spiels like Liara, or 'the enemy was us', or any of the such. Vega, Garrus, and even Shepard accept the threat and move on, rather than continually going 'this can't be happening to my people'... especially after spending the first half of the game watching it happen to other people's people and telling them 'I understand.'

Apparently Liara didn't. Which isn't bad in and of itself, but the lack of an opportunity to call her out on it grates on those not inclined to be exceptionally sympathetic about it.

[Silhouett3]

Actually Liara's "whining" about her homeplanet is much more interesting then everyone elses - she's not only upset about the fall of Thessia, she also found out that the foundation of their civilization was a lie - Asari were directly uplifted by Prothean interference, therefore part of the responsibility for their path of progress and advancement level (and the fall to Reapers) is shared by...the very race she dedicated her life to learn about.
Remember her angry reaction and disappointment with herself if you recruited her after Virmire and told her about The Cipher, Beacons, Visions in one go? She is a nerd, but also a passionate researcher.
What's worse, her own mother was one of the very few Asari to knew this and even she hid the truth from Liara.
If you have Javik, you'll see the only scene where he is confronted for what have the Prothean's done to other species. And a bit for his supremacism.

What's not to like?

[Hadeedak]

Take Liara, Garrus and Renegadeish Shepard to Thessia.

"DEAL WITH EMOTIONS BY SHOOTING THINGS IN THE FACE."

[dublin omega 223]

I have to agree Liara was very whinny, if I had the option I would have used her for bait against the Reapers.

[Kia Purity]

I dunno, even though I can't hear the VA's-- I did have issues with Liara being upset over the Banshees. Kind of "Um, you know, husks? They were humans? And you've been shooting at them with me in ME1. D:"

It's just that some parts of Liara could have been done BETTER. I can understand why she broke down from everything turning out to be basically a lie. But some of the stuff that was written just kind of poked me out of immersion.

It's just so damn confusing.

[EricHVela]

Luke: "I can't believe Ben's gone."
Leia: "Aw. Did the 80-year-old man you just met yesterday die? I mean, sorry if I didn't notice. I was a little busy thinking about my entire family and the other two billion people from Alderaan who were just vaporized into dust about three hours ago."

That said, it hits home when it happens to you ... not so much when it happens to someone else.

That's just [non-species-specific] Nature.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 14 mai 2012 - 04:42 .

[General Skidog]

ReggarBlane wrote...

That said, it hits home when it happens to you ... not so much when it happens to someone else.

That just proves how stuck up she is...

[EricHVela]

General Skidog wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

That said, it hits home when it happens to you ... not so much when it happens to someone else.

That just proves how stuck up she is...

It proves she's no different than Humans and their "it won't happen to me" attitude (such as driving and texting -- wars going on overseas -- someone else's planet invaded). If she's "stuck up", all races (including Humans) are equally "stuck up".

[General Skidog]

ReggarBlane wrote...

General Skidog wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

That said, it hits home when it happens to you ... not so much when it happens to someone else.

That just proves how stuck up she is...

It proves she's no different than Humans and their "it won't happen to me" attitude (such as driving and texting -- wars going on overseas -- someone else's planet invaded). If she's "stuck up", all races (including Humans) are equally "stuck up".

She's stuck up because she was so shocked about how it was happening on her home world, when she'd already been there to see it happeneing to the turians, the humans, the salarians, and the krogans.

If she hadn't have been there to see it, i would have understood her little tantrum.

Modifié par General Skidog, 14 mai 2012 - 05:02 .

[HellbirdIV]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

"Oh my planet just fell and my people are being turned into monsters! Woe is me!" Newsflash Liara: that just happened to all of us, and it was just as traumatic. Buck up, move on, and get revenge.

A civilian is upset at the deaths of billions? Astonishing!

No, you just shut up, you big stupid jellyfish.

[General Skidog]

HellbirdIV wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

"Oh my planet just fell and my people are being turned into monsters! Woe is me!" Newsflash Liara: that just happened to all of us, and it was just as traumatic. Buck up, move on, and get revenge.

A civilian is upset at the deaths of billions? Astonishing!

No, you just shut up, you big stupid jellyfish.

She's the Shadow Broker, a crappy one, but still...

Modifié par General Skidog, 14 mai 2012 - 05:12 .

[Laughing_Man]

Personally, I think Shepard was the whiniest character in ME 3.
Half of his emotional lines sounded so forced, that I was embarrassed for him.
I suspect that Jenifer Hale was probably better, but I can't be sure, because after my first playthrough I havn't managed another one.

[JayJayCAW09]

@TheMadHanar for making this thread...........

[Grimwick]

General Skidog wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

General Skidog wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

That said, it hits home when it happens to you ... not so much when it happens to someone else.

That just proves how stuck up she is...

It proves she's no different than Humans and their "it won't happen to me" attitude (such as driving and texting -- wars going on overseas -- someone else's planet invaded). If she's "stuck up", all races (including Humans) are equally "stuck up".

She's stuck up because she was so shocked about how it was happening on her home world, when she'd already been there to see it happeneing to the turians, the humans, the salarians, and the krogans.

If she hadn't have been there to see it, i would have understood her little tantrum.

Are you suggesting that if Shepard/Garrus/Kaiden/Ash went back to their homeowlrds they wouldn't have felt sad at all? Oh wait, Shepard/Ash/Kaiden do and they do get sad.

It's just that they are military and by that point there's too much to worry about.

[Sp3c7eR]

I suggest the OP revise his definition of whining. There isn't such a thing when the whole galaxy and everyone & everything you know is burning to the ground. Wow...

[ComfortablyNumb]

Liara is barely adult, which she admits herself. So I'm not surprised she acts more "out" than other characters.

Disclaimer: this is not inteded as an excuse for her. It did irritate me, when everybody was asking if I checked on her. Unless it was because everybody WAS treating her like a kid that needs special kind of consolation.

[General Skidog]

Grimwick wrote...

General Skidog wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

General Skidog wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

That said, it hits home when it happens to you ... not so much when it happens to someone else.

That just proves how stuck up she is...

It proves she's no different than Humans and their "it won't happen to me" attitude (such as driving and texting -- wars going on overseas -- someone else's planet invaded). If she's "stuck up", all races (including Humans) are equally "stuck up".

She's stuck up because she was so shocked about how it was happening on her home world, when she'd already been there to see it happeneing to the turians, the humans, the salarians, and the krogans.

If she hadn't have been there to see it, i would have understood her little tantrum.

Are you suggesting that if Shepard/Garrus/Kaiden/Ash went back to their homeowlrds they wouldn't have felt sad at all? Oh wait, Shepard/Ash/Kaiden do and they do get sad.

It's just that they are military and by that point there's too much to worry about.

Garrus dosn't react the same as Liara after been on Palavin, neither does Mordin on Sur'kesh or Wrex on Tuchankha. Everyone manages to keep their emotions in check, apart from Liara.

And the whole "she's a civillian" argument is bull.

She should be the one person who knows exactly what the Reapers are doing to the Galaxy. She's the damn Shadow Broker!.

Some people like the whole 'damsel in detress' act, i can't stand it...

Modifié par General Skidog, 14 mai 2012 - 06:01 .

[dublin omega 223]

I cant stand the whole damsel in distress thing either, my nephew actually compared Liara to Lois Lane only Liara is more annoying and whiny.

[Barquiel]

dublin omega 223 wrote...

I cant stand the whole damsel in distress thing either, my nephew actually compared Liara to Lois Lane only Liara is more annoying and whiny.

Do you even know what a "damsel in distress" is? Liara is not one in ME2 or ME3, not even close to one (Liara saved Shepard life...and not the other way around).