120 réponses à ce sujet

[RaptorSolutions]

zehcoutinho wrote...

Aramina wrote...

zRz Tyr wrote...


Of course not! Keep the killing moves, just give the player a chance of retaliation ( If thats the right word, dont really know the meaning of it. Im not a native english speaker)

There is a chance of retaliation, just not for the person getting grabbed. If your teammates kill it first or stagger it with biotic explosions, they'll let go of you. The Banshee is actually the easiest one to do this with because she has one of the slowest insta-kill animations (as opposed to the Phantom...by the time your ally sees you getting grabbed it's already too late to react.). If I really need to save my ally from the Banshee, I just whip out a missile and shoot it. It takes quick reflexes, but then what doesn't in this game?

I think I have freed a squadmate from a Banshee killing animation with a Widow shot. Is that possible or did someone do something else at the same time that did it?

Damage spike. So you stagered the Banshee.

[Quxorda]

yes the instant kills are a terrible design decision and a cheap way of making the game more "difficult". Any mechanic that removes all input from the player is just awful and there is no defending it.

[ConstantineCS]

The only issue I have with the animation kills is that they can take place no matter what your health or shields are at. If nothing else I would like to enjoy the assurance that I wont be grabbed/stabbed by a mini-boss enemy in MP while I have full shields.

Or... alternatively, have some means to make it not a KILL, as opposed to just getting "downed".

Modifié par ConstantineCS, 25 avril 2012 - 06:06 .

[Aramina]

zehcoutinho wrote...

Aramina wrote...

zRz Tyr wrote...


Of course not! Keep the killing moves, just give the player a chance of retaliation ( If thats the right word, dont really know the meaning of it. Im not a native english speaker)

There is a chance of retaliation, just not for the person getting grabbed. If your teammates kill it first or stagger it with biotic explosions, they'll let go of you. The Banshee is actually the easiest one to do this with because she has one of the slowest insta-kill animations (as opposed to the Phantom...by the time your ally sees you getting grabbed it's already too late to react.). If I really need to save my ally from the Banshee, I just whip out a missile and shoot it. It takes quick reflexes, but then what doesn't in this game?

I think I have freed a squadmate from a Banshee killing animation with a Widow shot. Is that possible or did someone do something else at the same time that did it?

I'm not 100% sure of what makes them drop someone, it's either stagger, certain amount of damage, or a combination of the two. Causing a biotic explosion is guaranteed to make them enemy drop them, so will killing it. Everything else...might be interesting to investigate it. Don't know many people willing to get picked up by Banshees for science though I have heard other people claim that it's a massive amount of damage in a short space of time.

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

In the case of charge, I think it is retarded. It would seem that when a user charges, the game, in a way, already places you next to the target and allows for you to be stabbed, literally, as soon as you reach the phantom. There have been multiple times where I've actually charged into the stabbing animation. Couple that with the desync issue (unless you're host - I don't have that great of a connection so I'm really not sure if I'd make a good host or not) and vanguard is easily the most frustrating class to play, when it should be one of the most enjoyable.

I don't mind the one hit kills at all but the ones with charge are beyond ridiculous.

[zRz Tyr]

Simbacca wrote...

Phantoms have always been able to interrupt Nova with their stab-instakill, they were doing it in the demo. Really considering how Nova invincibility frames work on most other attacks, is it really a big deal Phantoms' stab works... There's already simply solution, don't Nova on top of a Phantom. Nova has a pretty large radius, just backpeddling immediately after Charging and Nova at range.

After the first time I was stabbed by a Phantom during Nova while playing the demo, I have yet to ever have the issue again. It's not that hard to avoid and Phantoms have remained cake for my HV.

I backed away immediately after the charge. Im not sure to be honest, but i usually do that IF i decide to charge something with a killing move.

[zRz Tyr]

Well, how about this then. Would if be better if they were allowed to do the killing move IF your shields are down?

[OblivionDawn]

zRz Tyr wrote...

And please, dont give me any smartass replies on why i should not go into close combat with a phantom.

Fixed that for you.

If you must charge a Phantom, have the presence of mind to roll FAR back IMMEDIATLY after you use every power until it is dead. Otherwise...

zRz Tyr wrote...

i should not go into close combat with a phantom.

[zRz Tyr]

OblivionDawn wrote...

zRz Tyr wrote...

And please, dont give me any smartass replies on why i should not go into close combat with a phantom.

Fixed that for you.

If you must charge a Phantom, have the presence of mind to roll FAR back IMMEDIATLY after you use every power until it is dead. Otherwise...

zRz Tyr wrote...

i should not go into close combat with a phantom.

I did not roll back, but i backed away from her.

[zehcoutinho]

Thanks for the replies. It could have been me after all, cause my SI is specced for maximum damage with sniper rifle, and I was cloaked at the moment.

[Quxorda]

zRz Tyr wrote...

Well, how about this then. Would if be better if they were allowed to do the killing move IF your shields are down?

Not really, it still removes most (or all in case of a banshee) control of a player. Essentially a hidden dice roll decides you don't get to play any more for the rest of the round - that's a cheap and reall bad design. It get's worse when you factor in lag.

What it should be, is a QTE. Random button/key pops up on the screen when the animation starts, the higher the difficulty the briefer it's there and getting the timing right allows you to counter the OHK and stagger the mob that was doing it. For a little flavor, Korgan and Batarians who counter a Phantom should instantly kill the Phantom instead (or at least break their sword with the counter).

[UEG Donkey]

Firmijn wrote...

By Batarian sentinel eats Phantoms for breakfast. Submission net -> heavy melee -> continue melee/or mercy gunshot

^ or stasis

You should be calling out phantoms and letting other players take them.  Chargeguards shouldn't mess with them.

[cameronnadal]

'I charged into an enemy that can instant kill me if I get close. They did just that. We need to get rid of this because its ridiculous I can't mindlessly charge into all and any enemies and might have to shoot at some from atl east a short distance away.'

[A Wild Snorlax]

I played human vanguard on host vs cerberus yesterday. I think I got instagibbed by phantoms 4 times that game, 3 of the times I was mid air about to ground pound them with nova, when the phantom decided to magnetically suck me in. I was standing a few feet away from them too in all the cases, AND they were reaved. Dumb.

The magnetic instakill is really stupid sometimes. I get it if they are right on top of you and they've allready hit you once, fine whatever. But for them to grab me right out of charge/nova is pretty dumb. Especially when they've been reaved. And yes I know you have to roll back after charging, doesn't work when they freeze you in place the moment you hit them because charge didn't stun them though.

Also saw a banshee randomly teleport through a wall and grab a teammate earlier.

Modifié par A Wild Snorlax, 25 avril 2012 - 06:41 .

[legion999]

I am especially since my Kroguard just got insta killed by a Phantom while doing that painful revive animation. So we lost the round. I can't even roll away making it even more irritating.

[zRz Tyr]

cameronnadal wrote...

'I charged into an enemy that can instant kill me if I get close. They did just that. We need to get rid of this because its ridiculous I can't mindlessly charge into all and any enemies and might have to shoot at some from atl east a short distance away.'

I take it youre here to annoy me? Good for you.... I did not mindlessely charge that phantom. That phantom was already focused on another person, so i decide to use the element of surprise. The vanguard is designed for close combat. The ability to throw yourself and use an ability that is supposed to be used when youre near an enemy pretty much gives it away. Shockwave also hints they are a class oriented towards assault tactics. Yes, because interrupting a nova and instead standing with your mouth open doing nothing is the most recommended course of action when someone is about to shuve a sword in your face. If i wanted more shooty tactics, i would play the other classes.

You call me mindless? Look at you, not giving a damn about the details.

Modifié par zRz Tyr, 25 avril 2012 - 06:46 .

[zRz Tyr]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

I played human vanguard on host vs cerberus yesterday. I think I got instagibbed by phantoms 4 times that game, 3 of the times I was mid air about to ground pound them with nova, when the phantom decided to magnetically suck me in. I was standing a few feet away from them too in all the cases, AND they were reaved. Dumb.

The magnetic instakill is really stupid sometimes. I get it if they are right on top of you and they've allready hit you once, fine whatever. But for them to grab me right out of charge/nova is pretty dumb. Especially when they've been reaved. And yes I know you have to roll back after charging, doesn't work when they freeze you in place the moment you hit them because charge didn't stun them though.

Also saw a banshee randomly teleport through a wall and grab a teammate earlier.

This happenend to me. My character just stops his action and magically gets sucked towards the phantom.

[zRz Tyr]

zRz Tyr wrote...

cameronnadal wrote...

'I charged into an enemy that can instant kill me if I get close. They did just that. We need to get rid of this because its ridiculous I can't mindlessly charge into all and any enemies and might have to shoot at some from atl east a short distance away.'

I take it youre here to annoy me? Good for you.... I did not mindlessely charge that phantom. That phantom was already focused on another person, so i decide to use the element of surprise. The vanguard is designed for close combat. The ability to throw yourself and use an ability that is supposed to be used when youre near an enemy pretty much gives it away. Shockwave also hints they are a class oriented towards assault tactics. Yes, because interrupting a nova and instead standing with your mouth open doing nothing is the most recommended course of action when someone is about to shuve a sword in your face. If i wanted more shooty tactics, i would play the other classes.

You call me mindless? Look at you, not giving a damn about the details.

And lets not forget the inclusion of power melee attacks.

[mireisen]

Sometimes after statis a phantom would slop down, and then she doesn't get up, but her pistols magically shoot at me. Once it happened, I stasis'ed her while she was still down to get a teammate. Sword to the gut.

Sometimes the phantom would get up after a throw, but she'd have her arms out teleporting around like Space Jesus.

[zRz Tyr]

Lets hear what others has to say.

[petejessejamesg]

If you are hosting you can use the scorpion to kill phantoms with great ease.

[Severyx]

You may not like it, OP, but Phantoms/Banshees are the enemies you DON'T fight up close. Don't complain about this "Vanguard fights up close!" stupidity. All that tells me is that you're a stereotypical vanguard who just novaspams their way through an entire game without using their brain.

You know, you ARE part of a team. Why not focus on the non-OHK enemies while your teammates take out the phantoms? You know, implement minimal strategy?

Also, bring a shotgun.

[zRz Tyr]

petejessejamesg wrote...

If you are hosting you can use the scorpion to kill phantoms with great ease.

But heres the thing again, i dont have problems with phantoms. I have problems with the killing moves.

[Apl_Juice]

Stop going near it.

Phantom insta-kill is fine. You need to be hugging her for at least 2/3 seconds before she actually does it (this includes time spent getting hit by her normal melee, after which you can usually roll away before she OHKOs you anyway).

But I'll reiterate it for you:

Don't go near it, Don't go near it, Don't go near it, Don't go near it, Don't go near it.

[zRz Tyr]

Severyx wrote...

You may not like it, OP, but Phantoms/Banshees are the enemies you DON'T fight up close. Don't complain about this "Vanguard fights up close!" stupidity. All that tells me is that you're a stereotypical vanguard who just novaspams their way through an entire game without using their brain.

You know, you ARE part of a team. Why not focus on the non-OHK enemies while your teammates take out the phantoms? You know, implement minimal strategy?

Also, bring a shotgun.

Without using my brain...... FFS i am using my brain. I did not charge that phantom because i wanted her to perform a killing move on me, i charged that phantom because 1.She was focused on another player 2. I was going to help a FRIEND (NOTE: I was trying to help a TEAMmate) 3. I had a shotgun 4. Vanguards are for UP CLOSE COMBAT, why would they give the vanguard a charge ability, an aoe attack that needs to be at close proximity to be used at its fullest potential and not to mention shockwave, that throws enemies out of cover making it easier for you to assault them. Do i need to mention the power melee moves they included? 5. I dont novaspam everything i see. If i see 4 geth troopers, i charge and nova them. If i see a banshee, i keep my distance until i have support. Why dont you use YOUR brain, and try to ACTUALLY figure out why these killing moves are so "meh" ?