31 réponses à ce sujet

[BGNation27]

Anyone else find there is no mage specialization that suits their style of play?  I find there is no specialization for and offensive caster or crowd control caster.  Basically you healer/shapchanger/warrior/(evil mage).

At any rate I can't seem to get into Arcane Warrior at all.  After putting points into it I wonder why I wasted any points specializing when there are so many good normal talents for mages.  I actually think the normal mage spells are more useful then anything the specialization's have to offer.  Considering how many spells there are I would rather waste my talents on either elemental AOE spells, Spirit anti caster spells, single target damage/CC spells, or large area of effect crowd control/debuff spells.  

When I put armor/weapon on and turn on my passive abilities it seems that I am wasting a lot of the mages powers despite being very difficult to kill.  I find that usually I am more useful to the group in mage form.  It seems silly to switch armor/weapons when you run out of mana and then run into the fray though.  Something just doesn't fit me right with that tactic.

At any rate I find that if you only take the normal mage spells it's a lot more fun that way.   

[Taleroth]

BGNation27 wrote...

 large area of effect crowd control/debuff spells.   

Blood Magic has the best one.

[Seraphael]

Blood Mage really is the most powerful mage specialization anyway. Blood Wounds is crazy overpowered.

[nuculerman]

Seraphael wrote...

Blood Mage really is the most powerful mage specialization anyway. Blood Wounds is crazy overpowered.

No, AW is by far the most powerful mage specialization.  It's just god awful boring to play.

Blood magic is a fairly close second.  Blood wound is the absolute best AoE DPS/CC combined mage ability in the game.  It'd be like if scattershot lasted 10x longer or inferno froze your opponents in one place.

As for your comment, it's completely false.  All mages do are DPS and CC.  The vast majority of their spells are geared toward those ends.  Fireball is a CC/DPS ability and a really good one.  Inferno is an amazing AoE DPS ability.  Blizzard is an amazing CC/DPS ability.  Sleep and Waking Nightmare are amazing CC/DPS abilities when combined.  Death Hex + Death Cloud is a 300+ single target damage ability + decent dot.  Mass Paralysis is a crazy CC ability.  CoC is an amazing CC/DPS ability when combined with vulnerability hex.  Stone fist is an instant kill for all white enemies and 20 or 30% of yellow enemies with petrify or CoC.  Chain lighting is an awesome multiple target DPS ability.  Grease+Fireball is an amazing CC/DPS ability.  Death Hex is an absurd single target DPS ability if you have decent melee'ers in your party.  Misdirection Hex is an awesome CC ability since it renders the target useless for a decent amount of time, or close to it (activated abilities like bash still hit).  Virulent walking bomb and walking bomb are awesome AoE DPS abilities if used correctly.  

Mages out AoE DPS everyone by quite a fair margin and out single target DPS everyone except a correctly spec'ed DPS DW rogue.  And there is no other real CC class since archers only have scattershot and shattering shot, which can hardly compete with the umpteen CC abilities mages have.

Mages are entirely broken in this game.  They are the best buffers, the best debuffers, arguably the best DPSers, the only real CC'ers, the only healers in the game.  They are broken precisely because they can do anything and everything.  An AW is a better tank than any sword/shield build, or at least, can take way more damage.  An "elemental" mage is by far better at AoE DPS than a DW or 2H warrior simply because they can DPS almost as well as them only over a much larger area.  And a correctly spec'ed bloodmage/AW is better at everything than everyone except single target DPS if he's willing to switch armors and/or pop mana and healing pots.

[nuculerman]

 I'll be more helpful.  If you want to play a good mage with CC/DPS leanings:

Blood Magic (sure this is evil by the chantry's standards but come on, listen to Morrigan this one time)

Blood Magic, Blood Sacrifice, Blood Wound, Blood Control.

I've found Blood control is almost impossible to resist even with low magic scores.  Use it on yellow enemies, especially ogres, for a very powerful ally for the first 20 seconds of your battle.

Primal:
The whole fire line
The whole cold line
The whole electricity line

Creation:
First three in glyph line
Spell Wisp and Grease

Spirit:
Mana Clash
Crushing Prison

Evil?

Blood Magic again, all of it.

Primal
CoC

Spirit:
Mana Clash
Animate Dead

Entropy:
Mass Paralysis/Waking nightmare line.  Your choice.  I like Mass Paralysis more since Miasma is nice too.
Death Hex
Death Cloud

In both cases get CoC first.  

[BGNation27]

You are all correct in that you can be a blood mage, but I don't really want to play an evil mage.  You are also correct that the normal talents will achieve this which is the point of my post.  It seems to me that there isn't much point in taking the specializations if you want to be a traditional AOE DPS mage.  You should just stick with all the normal mage talents as they are all good so why waste on making your character more like a warrior or necromancer?  I just think that perhaps they should have had some specializations for good characters that go along with good mages that do DPS/Crowd Control. 

[Taleroth]

Why do you automatically assume being a Blood Mage is evil?

[Bagenholt]

I know right.

[BGNation27]

Something about using yours and others blood to fuel your spells seems pretty evil to me.  Just looking at the spell descriptions and what they do it sounds like spells you use to take plesure out of seeing others suffer from their effects.  It's also the most dangerous magic as you can easily become possed by demons.

[Bagenholt]

The wielder is what makes it evil... I hate talking in such this or that concepts ><

[BGNation27]

I don't agree with that.  Some things are just evil in nature and require an evil person to do them IMO.  A good bloodmage is like an oxymoron.

[Taleroth]

BGNation27 wrote...

Something about using yours and others blood to fuel your spells seems pretty evil to me.  Just looking at the spell descriptions and what they do it sounds like spells you use to take plesure out of seeing others suffer from their effects.

Compared to setting people on fire or freezing them in ice?  Trust me, those aren't pleasant experiences.  Being burned alive is considered one of the two most painful ways to die.

It's also the most dangerous magic as you can easily become possed by demons.

No, it's nothing of the sort.  Possession comes about because of contact with demons in the fade, not because of the branch of magic you use.

Modifié par Taleroth, 08 décembre 2009 - 12:47 .

[JJM152]

BGNation27 wrote...

Something about using yours and others blood to fuel your spells seems pretty evil to me.  Just looking at the spell descriptions and what they do it sounds like spells you use to take plesure out of seeing others suffer from their effects.  It's also the most dangerous magic as you can easily become possed by demons.

I find this a rather simplistic view. After all, it was Caradin that used blood magic to create the golems, correct? At first however, the golems were created from willing volunteers that wanted to defend the Dwarven Kingdom from the Darkspawn and their sacrifice was honored. It was only after the Dwarven King got power mad that he started to sacrifice dwarves on the Altar of the Void against their will.

The lesson here isn't that Blood Magic is inherently evil, it's that people tend to do evil things with it because it's so powerful. Power is, after all, both corrupting and seductive.

[BGNation27]

Taleroth wrote...

BGNation27 wrote...

Something about using yours and others blood to fuel your spells seems pretty evil to me.  Just looking at the spell descriptions and what they do it sounds like spells you use to take plesure out of seeing others suffer from their effects.

Compared to setting people on fire or freezing them in ice?  Trust me, those aren't pleasant experiences.  Being burned alive is considered one of the two most painful ways to die.

It's also the most dangerous magic as you can easily become possed by demons.

No, it's nothing of the sort.  Possession comes about because of contact with demons in the fade, not because of the branch of magic you use.

Any magician can feel the lure of the dark blood magic. These dark rites, which were originally taught by demons, tap into the power of life force and to give the magician access to powerful blood magic.This power, however, demands a price; a Blood Mage must be willing to sacrifice his own life force or that of allies, in order to be able to use this dark magic. Blood Mage is a specialization of the mage class

In the world of Thedas, Blood Magic is a kind of magic that mages may use. It is described as being one of the more "sinister" types of magic, which lets the mage control the minds of others as well as use their very own lifeforce to fuel their power. The Chantry has banned the use of Blood Magic by mages of the Circle of Magi. Some mages learn Blood Magic by making a pact with a demon.

Basically blood magic is dangerous which is why it is banned. 

As for fire and ice they are elemental magics which are no different then an army using a catipult with a rock that is lit on fire IMO.  They are not inheirently evil magics.  On the flip side using ones lifeforce to fuel magic is inheirently evil in nature.  It would require one who does not care about other to use it IMO.

Modifié par BGNation27, 08 décembre 2009 - 12:53 .

[Taleroth]

No, it's banned because the Chantry hates it. The Chantry also hates people who can use magic at all, and it's banned to simply exist without being under their thumb.

Born able to use magic and not in the circle?  Well, the chantry has banned your existence, so you must be evil!

That's ridiculously specious to claim that setting people on fire is somehow more careful. That using your own blood means you don't care about other people. When setting larges groups of people on fire is the alternative. Fire does not care about you. Fire is one of the greatest destructive and most chaotic forces in existence.

If we can compare fireballs to catapults, we can compare blood magic to stabbing people.

Modifié par Taleroth, 08 décembre 2009 - 12:58 .

[BGNation27]

JJM152 wrote...

BGNation27 wrote...

Something about using yours and others blood to fuel your spells seems pretty evil to me.  Just looking at the spell descriptions and what they do it sounds like spells you use to take plesure out of seeing others suffer from their effects.  It's also the most dangerous magic as you can easily become possed by demons.

I find this a rather simplistic view. After all, it was Caradin that used blood magic to create the golems, correct? At first however, the golems were created from willing volunteers that wanted to defend the Dwarven Kingdom from the Darkspawn and their sacrifice was honored. It was only after the Dwarven King got power mad that he started to sacrifice dwarves on the Altar of the Void against their will.

The lesson here isn't that Blood Magic is inherently evil, it's that people tend to do evil things with it because it's so powerful. Power is, after all, both corrupting and seductive.

I can see your point of view, but I can't agree with it.  It seems to me it's as simple as drawing on the life force of another person is evil.  Stealing their lieforce to fuel your spells is an evil act.  Even if there were good intentions for it when it was created that doens't mean that it can be used for good IMO.  This is different then say prejudice against a race for have tendencies to act a certain way.  Blood Magic by the nature of how it works is evil.  At any rate it doesn't solve the problem of missing specialist classes either way.

[mrao]

You don't have to use blood sacrifice, you know. You can play a blood mage the entire game, make all the good decisions that spare the most innocents, and only use your own life force to power your spells. What is unrealistic imo, is that you basically get no reactions from party members. I leveled persuade on my blood mage specifically because I thought I would have to pass some hefty checks with Alistair or Wynne.

Modifié par mrao, 08 décembre 2009 - 01:01 .

[Taleroth]

BGNation27 wrote...

It seems to me it's as simple as drawing on the life force of another person is evil.  Stealing their lieforce to fuel your spells is an evil act.

Except blood magic also includes USING YOUR OWN LIFE FORCE, not stealing it from anyone else.

Life Drain steals more from unwilling victims than the entire Blood Magic line!

Modifié par Taleroth, 08 décembre 2009 - 01:01 .

[BGNation27]

Taleroth wrote...

No, it's banned because the Chantry hates it. The Chantry also hates people who can use magic at all, and it's banned to simply exist without being under their thumb.

Born able to use magic and not in the circle?  Well, the chantry has banned your existence, so you must be evil!

That's ridiculously specious to claim that setting people on fire is somehow more careful. That using your own blood means you don't care about other people. When setting larges groups of people on fire is the alternative. Fire does not care about you. Fire is one of the greatest destructive and most chaotic forces in existence.

If we can compare fireballs to catapults, we can compare blood magic to stabbing people.

As I said you can use similiar things to a fireball in real life and it's creation is not inheirently evil.  Fire and Ice are parts of nature that can be harnessed to do things good or evil.  On the flip side drawing for another persons life force to become more powerful can only be construed as an evil act.

[BGNation27]

mrao wrote...

You don't have to use blood sacrifice, you know. You can play a blood mage the entire game, make all the good decisions that spare the most innocents, and only use your own life force to power your spells. What is unrealistic imo, is that you basically get no reactions from party members. I leveled persuade on my blood mage specifically because I thought I would have to pass some hefty checks with Alistair or Wynne.

To me thats silly to be a blood mage and then not to use the abilities available because you think you are somehow still a good person despite doing something that is similiar to making a pact with the devil in return for more power or whatever it is you want. 

Also look at the other blood mage spells they seem pretty sadistic to me.

[BGNation27]

Taleroth wrote...

BGNation27 wrote...

It seems to me it's as simple as drawing on the life force of another person is evil.  Stealing their lieforce to fuel your spells is an evil act.

Except blood magic also includes USING YOUR OWN LIFE FORCE, not stealing it from anyone else.

Life Drain steals more from unwilling victims than the entire Blood Magic line!

True though I consider that whole area of expertise to be pretty evil in nature as well.

[mrao]

BGNation27 wrote...

mrao wrote...

You don't have to use blood sacrifice, you know. You can play a blood mage the entire game, make all the good decisions that spare the most innocents, and only use your own life force to power your spells. What is unrealistic imo, is that you basically get no reactions from party members. I leveled persuade on my blood mage specifically because I thought I would have to pass some hefty checks with Alistair or Wynne.

To me thats silly to be a blood mage and then not to use the abilities available because you think you are somehow still a good person despite doing something that is similiar to making a pact with the devil in return for more power or whatever it is you want. 

Also look at the other blood mage spells they seem pretty sadistic to me.

On subsequent playthroughs, your character has to make no such pact. Also, you can intimidate the demon (need to do it twice) and it will give you blood magic and leave connor forever. My blood mage is certainly not good aligned (i'd peg him as chaotic neutral), but I don't see why someone couldn't play one if they wanted to. Theres nothing about blood magic that takes away the users free will, as shown by both Jowan and Avernus. Unless of course you let yourself get posessed by a demon, like Uldred.

Modifié par mrao, 08 décembre 2009 - 01:08 .

[BGNation27]

mrao wrote...

BGNation27 wrote...

mrao wrote...

You don't have to use blood sacrifice, you know. You can play a blood mage the entire game, make all the good decisions that spare the most innocents, and only use your own life force to power your spells. What is unrealistic imo, is that you basically get no reactions from party members. I leveled persuade on my blood mage specifically because I thought I would have to pass some hefty checks with Alistair or Wynne.

To me thats silly to be a blood mage and then not to use the abilities available because you think you are somehow still a good person despite doing something that is similiar to making a pact with the devil in return for more power or whatever it is you want. 

Also look at the other blood mage spells they seem pretty sadistic to me.

On subsequent playthroughs, your character has to make no such pact. Also, you can intimidate the demon (need to do it twice) and it will give you blood magic and leave connor forever. My blood mage is certainly not good aligned (i'd peg him as chaotic neutral), but I don't see why someone couldn't play one if they wanted to. Theres nothing about blood magic that takes away the users free will, as shown by both Jowan and Avernus. Unless of course you let yourself get posessed by a demon, like Uldred.

Hrm I never said someone can't play through the game as a blood mage if they don't want to be a good aligned mage.  My post was simply that perhaps they shold have specializations for other areas that a good aligned mage would could more easily take.  Something along the lines of elemental damage or CC that doesn't require devling into things of a more sinister nature.

[metatrans]

Blood Magic is of evil origin. it is taught to mortal mages by demons.



Blood Magic is capable of incredible evil. it can steal the life from a person to fuel the spells of a nearby mage. it can take complete control of someone and make them act against their will.



so yeah, blood magic itself is more evil than other types of magic. its possible to use it and not become evil and its possible to minimize the harm you cause while using it. however, this is not typically what happens with blood mages. there are exceptions to everything but in general blood magic is bad news.

[Bagenholt]

It's like saying it's the gun that's bad when the person shoots a child. Guns are made for war but they are not in themselves evil. Also, if you have this line of thinking then if we transfer this into real life. You would fore go a heart transplant because that knowledge came from an evil source? That being decades of brutal animal experimentation. This is all on principle of course ^^