622 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

davishepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Oh, please. It their series but they are a company. Anyone with logic knows that doing an ending like that to a series with that detailed story and that big a fallowing would kill the series. BW doesnot want that. As a story tell you can warp reality of the story beyond what you built can happen with out destory it.
Learn some creative writing 101.

You don't know that. The game itself states the there would be DLC content, possible adding to the story. EC is the result of the complaints of the fans.

And, of course, they can destroy the universe they created if they wanted to, but they didn't.

I don't know that? HAVE YOU EVEN BEEN LOOKING AT THE BOARD? Nearly, everyone is ready and up a leave and no long by BW games over this ending.  If bw left it as it is massive amouts of people would abandon them. It';s not an assuption it's a fact. The only thing giving people any resulve to say with BW is EC.

[DJBare]

davishepard wrote...

IT only cuts off everything that makes the ending an ending. And IT doesn't only open a door to fanfiction, it's fanfiction itself.

The problem is, people think that they found hidden/subtle evidence that supports this fanfiction, and refuses to let go. People want that Bioware put this fanfiction in the game, ruining it. That's not gonna happen, but they refuse to see this.

Final Hours apps wrote...
Chapter 10, page 8
And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepards movements and fall under full Reaper control.(This sequence was ultimately dropped because the gameplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices)

Just so people know IT, is not just fan fiction.

Proof will cost you $2.99

Modifié par DJBare, 27 avril 2012 - 01:31 .

[davishepard]

dreman9999 wrote...
Of course it's logic....You dealing with a race of machine with a great history of deception, this inculdes indoctrination. Shepard has been near reaper tech for years, including object rho in arriaval. To say IT is baseless is to say what was stated about reaper is false. Wh wouldn't the reapers try and inctrinated Shepard, they been trying to do that for the entrity of ME2.

The fact that there is no proof to what the star child says and the fact that the reaper have a history of great deception allows for a very reasonable suspition of the ending.
Have you even ask why the star child is helping Shepard?
There is more thing supporting that fact that the ending is fake then the fact that it really happened.

You reach the Catalyst, so you are not dealing with the race of machines, but with the one that claims to control them.
Shepard never shows a single sign of Reaper indocrination.
The ends play the same way if you plays Arrival, and if you don't.
They tried to get Shepard when he/she was delaying their arrival. Since they came, there was no point. As well, there was no point in indocrinate a dying Shepard, in the final battle where all the Galact might was present.

You may question if the Catalyst is telling the truth, as he may be lying to some extent to protect himself from the destruction (destroy choice, where he presents two downsides), but saying that this sequence never happened is going too far.

He doesn't "help" Shepard, he presents the options that the Crucible is capable of doing. He would present that options to anyone that reach him, but maybe he wouldn't tell the Illusive Man that he couldn't control them (debatable).

There is just fan wishes supporting that the ending never happended. The game shows that they did happened. If not else, the final sequence with Stargazer and the child should be proof enough of this.

Modifié par davishepard, 27 avril 2012 - 01:33 .

[dreman9999]

davishepard wrote...

NoSpin wrote...

There is totally proof the endings are not what they seem. There is also some proof they may be just as they are presented. We don't know. If indoctrination of the player was the point of this Bioware acheived a great feat in storytelling, and that is a possibility. You seem to be the one writing off everyone who believes IT may be the case as loony, and only your interpretation is the correct one. There is not enough evidence for anyone to say, but to say we are forcing evidence to support our fanfiction is closeminded and straight up ignorant.

You are forcing evidence to support your fanfiction. That's not being closeminded, that is just telling the facts. 

There's no proof that the ends didn't happened. So, they happended, as they are shown. 

We are not forcing evidence to support our claims. We are using facts from the game... http://social.biowar...75/blog/212630/

Also, the fact that we are dealing with machines with a history of great deception and the fact that the star child has no reason to help us places the ending under supect of it's reality

[davishepard]

dreman9999 wrote...

I don't know that? HAVE YOU EVEN BEEN LOOKING AT THE BOARD? Nearly, everyone is ready and up a leave and no long by BW games over this ending.  If bw left it as it is massive amouts of people would abandon them. It';s not an assuption it's a fact. The only thing giving people any resulve to say with BW is EC.

Did they leave? I thought so.

[davishepard]

DJBare wrote...

davishepard wrote...

IT only cuts off everything that makes the ending an ending. And IT doesn't only open a door to fanfiction, it's fanfiction itself.

The problem is, people think that they found hidden/subtle evidence that supports this fanfiction, and refuses to let go. People want that Bioware put this fanfiction in the game, ruining it. That's not gonna happen, but they refuse to see this.

Final Hours apps wrote...
And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepards movements and fall under full Reaper control.(This sequence was ultimately dropped because the gameplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices)

Just so people know IT, is not just fan fiction.

It's fanfiction when you take something that didn't happen and suppose it happened. Highlighted the important for you.

Modifié par davishepard, 27 avril 2012 - 01:32 .

[Iconoclaste]

Final Hours apps wrote...
And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepards movements and fall under full Reaper control.(This sequence was ultimately dropped because the gameplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices)

That just looks like a cheap way for the writers "gameplay team" to put the blame on the level designers and programmers for not being able to implement their ideas correctly. The problem is still that the endings we got suffer from many points, some of them which are difficult to avoid because of the way games are constructed, and other points being related to a discutable writing issue.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 27 avril 2012 - 01:33 .

[DJBare]

davishepard wrote...
It's fanfiction when you take something that didn't happen and suppose it happened. Hightlighted the important for you.

But it did happen , it just did not work, the only way they could know that it did not work is to actually try it.

[davishepard]

DJBare wrote...

davishepard wrote...
It's fanfiction when you take something that didn't happen and suppose it happened. Hightlighted the important for you.

But it did happen , it just did not work, the only way they could know that it did not work is to actually try it.

It didn't make it into the retail game. Clear enough?

[Iconoclaste]

DJBare wrote...

davishepard wrote...
It's fanfiction when you take something that didn't happen and suppose it happened. Hightlighted the important for you.

But it did happen , it just did not work, the only way they could know that it did not work is to actually try it.

They might have just discussed this possibility, but to implement it in actual gameplay is quite a stretch from a simple discussion or "brainstorming".

[Reidbynature]

NoSpin wrote...


There is totally proof the endings are not what they seem. There is also some proof they may be just as they are presented. We don't know. If indoctrination of the player was the point of this Bioware acheived a great feat in storytelling, and that is a possibility. You seem to be the one writing off everyone who believes IT may be the case as loony, and only your interpretation is the correct one. There is not enough evidence for anyone to say, but to say we are forcing evidence to support our fanfiction is closeminded and straight up ignorant.

No, absolutely not.  Shepard stepping out of the shower proclaiming "I had the weirdest dream" doesn't magically turn the crap that preceded it into brilliant storytelling.  Whether IT turns out to be true or they just decide to go with it the ending will still be awful writing and execution.

What makes it worse is that the possibility in some peoples minds that IT will not just make the terrible ending good in their minds, but make them actually glad that the 'real ending' was released as DLC at a later date and not in the actual game they paid for.  Hell I've even seen threads asking to be charged for a real ending . 

I mean everyone jumps on EA/Bioware or Capcom and other companies for practising the dark arts of DLC, but you turn out one crap ending and people start begging for you to take their money.  Well played EA/Bioware, well played.

Modifié par Reidbynature, 27 avril 2012 - 01:41 .

[CptData]

davishepard wrote...

It's fanfiction when you take something that didn't happen and suppose it happened. Highlighted the important for you.

Well, remember the "dark energy plot"? That one was originally planned to play a big part in ME3.
It got dropped.

It also was planned to fully indoctrinate Shepard.
That plot got dropped as well since it was too difficult to do gameplay-wise.

However, you can't call the finale really "gameplay". You can't do much more than click from one cut scene to another. And the "hints" are given in the game (the dream sequences, everything beyond Harby's blast) can be interpreted as "leftovers from the indoctrination plot".

I'm pretty sure we're quite close to the truth here. The dreams are definitely leftovers from that indoctrination plot. And the endings simply feel incomplete, as if stuff got cut last minute. Yes, that's it. The endings got cut last minute. The VERY last minute. BW ran out of time and somehow had to make up an ending. That's what we've got.

Now make up what you want, but the IT gets some of it's fuel from the original plans of BW.

[DJBare]

davishepard wrote...

DJBare wrote...

davishepard wrote...
It's fanfiction when you take something that didn't happen and suppose it happened. Hightlighted the important for you.

But it did happen , it just did not work, the only way they could know that it did not work is to actually try it.

It didn't make it into the retail game. Clear enough?

Very clear, that's why we are seeing the remnants of it in the game, the plot holes, the ending that essentially has no ending(at least no answers), it was in and then pulled without proper clean up and adjustment to scenes and scripts.

Modifié par DJBare, 27 avril 2012 - 01:39 .

[dreman9999]

davishepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Of course it's logic....You dealing with a race of machine with a great history of deception, this inculdes indoctrination. Shepard has been near reaper tech for years, including object rho in arriaval. To say IT is baseless is to say what was stated about reaper is false. Wh wouldn't the reapers try and inctrinated Shepard, they been trying to do that for the entrity of ME2.

The fact that there is no proof to what the star child says and the fact that the reaper have a history of great deception allows for a very reasonable suspition of the ending.
Have you even ask why the star child is helping Shepard?
There is more thing supporting that fact that the ending is fake then the fact that it really happened.

You reach the Catalyst, so you are not dealing with the race of machines, but with the one that claims to control them.
Shepard never shows a single sign of Reaper indocrination.
The ends play the same way if you plays Arrival, and if you don't.
They tried to get Shepard when he/she was delaying their arrival. Since they came, there was no point. As well, there was no point in indocrinate a dying Shepard, in the final battle where all the Galact might was present.

You may question if the Catalyst is telling the truth, as he may be lying to some extent to protect himself from the destruction (destroy choice, where he presents two downsides), but saying that this sequence never happended is going too far.

He doesn't "help" Shepard, he presents the options that the Crucible is capable of doing. He would present that options to anyone that reach him, but maybe he wouldn't tell the Illusive Man that he couldn't control them (debatable).

There is just fan wishes supporting that the ending never happended. The game shows that they did happened. If not else, the final sequence with Stargazer and the child should be proof enough of this.

Did you miss the part when He says he controls the reapers? If the reaper make plans to use great deception, he would be the master mind behind it.

Also, the dream Shepard has is what the theory consider to be sign of indoctrination....Being that the reapers can effect dreams....
.http://www.youtube.c...JFRvDUp4#t=690s
http://www.youtube.c...tYTITiTw#t=249s  
And being that the reaper can effet dreams and Shepard was knocked out after being shot down by harbinger, that leave the question of whether the ending really happened. Note that this concept has been used before in other stories like inception and Total recall. Even DRAGON AGE : ORIGINS use the dream idea....

And on that, the star child is helping. Remeber when Hacket called in and said the crucible was not firing after Anderson died? If the star child did nothing at that point, the allied forces would have lost......Which bring us back to the question to why he even hepled.

[Dragoni89]

I am not sure any one at Bioware knows what a good ending is at the moment. Since they so enthusiastically gave us that epic ending of artistic integrity. And after PAX. Wow, how can they keep the same face. I would be embarrassed.


to the post above. The catalyst lied. He had no control of the reapers. Hence you had clean up the mess he claims he created. *face palm. The catalyst is designed to lie.

Modifié par Dragoni89, 27 avril 2012 - 01:41 .

[dreman9999]

davishepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

I don't know that? HAVE YOU EVEN BEEN LOOKING AT THE BOARD? Nearly, everyone is ready and up a leave and no long by BW games over this ending.  If bw left it as it is massive amouts of people would abandon them. It';s not an assuption it's a fact. The only thing giving people any resulve to say with BW is EC.

Did they leave? I thought so.

Because EC was annouced. Did you miss he part where I said EC is the only reason people are still here?

[dreman9999]

Dragoni89 wrote...

I am not sure any one at Bioware knows what a good ending is at the moment. Since they so enthusiastically gave us that epic ending of artistic integrity. And after PAX. Wow, how can they keep the same face. I would be embarrassed.


to the post above. The catalyst lied. He did not control reapers.

It not like they can really tell us what going on, being that would soil EC and all.

[Dragoni89]

dreman9999 wrote...

davishepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

I don't know that? HAVE YOU EVEN BEEN LOOKING AT THE BOARD? Nearly, everyone is ready and up a leave and no long by BW games over this ending.  If bw left it as it is massive amouts of people would abandon them. It';s not an assuption it's a fact. The only thing giving people any resulve to say with BW is EC.

Did they leave? I thought so.

Because EC was annouced. Did you miss he part where I said EC is the only reason people are still here?

I am waiting for EC, I waiting for the rage that comes with it. Obviously it is not going to be the answer people have been waiting for. Obviously gonna be more space magic containing Biowares "arstic integrity".

[dreman9999]

davishepard wrote...

DJBare wrote...

davishepard wrote...

IT only cuts off everything that makes the ending an ending. And IT doesn't only open a door to fanfiction, it's fanfiction itself.

The problem is, people think that they found hidden/subtle evidence that supports this fanfiction, and refuses to let go. People want that Bioware put this fanfiction in the game, ruining it. That's not gonna happen, but they refuse to see this.

Final Hours apps wrote...
And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepards movements and fall under full Reaper control.(This sequence was ultimately dropped because the gameplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices)

Just so people know IT, is not just fan fiction.

It's fanfiction when you take something that didn't happen and suppose it happened. Highlighted the important for you.

How do you know that it did not happen? That statement posted states they cut the gameply elements of indoctrination out, not the story element.

[dreman9999]

Dragoni89 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

davishepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

I don't know that? HAVE YOU EVEN BEEN LOOKING AT THE BOARD? Nearly, everyone is ready and up a leave and no long by BW games over this ending.  If bw left it as it is massive amouts of people would abandon them. It';s not an assuption it's a fact. The only thing giving people any resulve to say with BW is EC.

Did they leave? I thought so.

Because EC was annouced. Did you miss he part where I said EC is the only reason people are still here?

I am waiting for EC, I waiting for the rage that comes with it. Obviously it is not going to be the answer people have been waiting for. Obviously gonna be more space magic containing Biowares "arstic integrity".

But that's my point, the only thing preventing people from raging and leaving is EC. It's BW only hope. IT is the best way to fix the ending with out changing it, which is why so many people support it.

[CptData]

Dragoni89 wrote...


I am waiting for EC, I waiting for the rage that comes with it. Obviously it is not going to be the answer people have been waiting for. Obviously gonna be more space magic containing Biowares "arstic integrity".

Well, that's one of many options BW may pick.

I don't have faith in the "IT-supporting ending DLC". It may happen, but only if BW is well aware of the IT and its advantages / disadvantages.

I think the current endings will remain the same. The Relays get busted, regardless of what you pick. Maybe we can see the Geth don't get killed in the Destruction Ending. Maybe we won't see the Normandy's escape anymore OR the ship crashes somewhere on Earth. Maybe we're going to see Shepard's LI saving Shepard.

But the big picture, the destruction of the Relays, the fate of the Reapers, all will stay the same.

That's most likely what's going to happen.

[dreman9999]

Reidbynature wrote...

NoSpin wrote...


There is totally proof the endings are not what they seem. There is also some proof they may be just as they are presented. We don't know. If indoctrination of the player was the point of this Bioware acheived a great feat in storytelling, and that is a possibility. You seem to be the one writing off everyone who believes IT may be the case as loony, and only your interpretation is the correct one. There is not enough evidence for anyone to say, but to say we are forcing evidence to support our fanfiction is closeminded and straight up ignorant.

No, absolutely not.  Shepard stepping out of the shower proclaiming "I had the weirdest dream" doesn't magically turn the crap that preceded it into brilliant storytelling.  Whether IT turns out to be true or they just decide to go with it the ending will still be awful writing and execution.

What makes it worse is that the possibility in some peoples minds that IT will not just make the terrible ending good in their minds, but make them actually glad that the 'real ending' was released as DLC at a later date and not in the actual game they paid for.  Hell I've even seen threads asking to be charged for a real ending . 

I mean everyone jumps on EA/Bioware or Capcom and other companies for practising the dark arts of DLC, but you turn out one crap ending and people start begging for you to take their money.  Well played EA/Bioware, well played.

You're forgetiing the hole twist port of the story that comes up if IT is true. That fact about it makesyou quetion reality and really warp you mind. Also, you not considering what would happen in the end of the story is you submit to indoctrination or not. It all well means that you be playing a Shepard who is an indoctrinated sleeper agent. Use some imationation nd you can ee how deep a twist like IT can be.

Modifié par dreman9999, 27 avril 2012 - 01:52 .

[Reidbynature]

dreman9999 wrote...

Reidbynature wrote...

NoSpin wrote...


There is totally proof the endings are not what they seem. There is also some proof they may be just as they are presented. We don't know. If indoctrination of the player was the point of this Bioware acheived a great feat in storytelling, and that is a possibility. You seem to be the one writing off everyone who believes IT may be the case as loony, and only your interpretation is the correct one. There is not enough evidence for anyone to say, but to say we are forcing evidence to support our fanfiction is closeminded and straight up ignorant.

No, absolutely not.  Shepard stepping out of the shower proclaiming "I had the weirdest dream" doesn't magically turn the crap that preceded it into brilliant storytelling.  Whether IT turns out to be true or they just decide to go with it the ending will still be awful writing and execution.

What makes it worse is that the possibility in some peoples minds that IT will not just make the terrible ending good in their minds, but make them actually glad that the 'real ending' was released as DLC at a later date and not in the actual game they paid for.  Hell I've even seen threads asking to be charged for a real ending . 

I mean everyone jumps on EA/Bioware or Capcom and other companies for practising the dark arts of DLC, but you turn out one crap ending and people start begging for you to take their money.  Well played EA/Bioware, well played.

You forgetiing the hole twist port of the story that comes up if IT is true. That fact about it makesyou quetion reality and really warp you mind. Also, you not considering what would happen in the end of the story is you submit to indoctrination or not. It all well means that you be playing a Shepard who is an indoctrinated sleeper agent. Use some imationation nd you can ee how deep a twist like IT can be.

No, I'm not.  I clearly reference the twist (albeit with a euphamism) in my post.  I can see the possibilities, no problem there.  My point is that it doesn't rectify the bad writing.  It doesn't make ME3 suddenly turn into 'The Usual Suspects'.  Starbrat and what followed is still bad writing regardless of the solution.

Also my other point is that under the IT banner people are now calling for the very things many of them claimed to despise like cutting out content like the ending of the game and offering it as DLC later (again some people have asked to be charged for it).

Modifié par Reidbynature, 27 avril 2012 - 01:57 .

[Iconoclaste]

dreman9999 wrote...
And on that, the star child is helping. Remeber when Hacket called in and said the crucible was not firing after Anderson died? If the star child did nothing at that point, the allied forces would have lost......Which bring us back to the question to why he even hepled.

This is the convenient place to stop explaining the motives of the Catalyst, since there would be no use to help Shepard in any way, if he is simply lying on the ground in London.

[dreman9999]

Reidbynature wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Reidbynature wrote...

NoSpin wrote...


There is totally proof the endings are not what they seem. There is also some proof they may be just as they are presented. We don't know. If indoctrination of the player was the point of this Bioware acheived a great feat in storytelling, and that is a possibility. You seem to be the one writing off everyone who believes IT may be the case as loony, and only your interpretation is the correct one. There is not enough evidence for anyone to say, but to say we are forcing evidence to support our fanfiction is closeminded and straight up ignorant.

No, absolutely not.  Shepard stepping out of the shower proclaiming "I had the weirdest dream" doesn't magically turn the crap that preceded it into brilliant storytelling.  Whether IT turns out to be true or they just decide to go with it the ending will still be awful writing and execution.

What makes it worse is that the possibility in some peoples minds that IT will not just make the terrible ending good in their minds, but make them actually glad that the 'real ending' was released as DLC at a later date and not in the actual game they paid for.  Hell I've even seen threads asking to be charged for a real ending . 

I mean everyone jumps on EA/Bioware or Capcom and other companies for practising the dark arts of DLC, but you turn out one crap ending and people start begging for you to take their money.  Well played EA/Bioware, well played.

You forgetiing the hole twist port of the story that comes up if IT is true. That fact about it makesyou quetion reality and really warp you mind. Also, you not considering what would happen in the end of the story is you submit to indoctrination or not. It all well means that you be playing a Shepard who is an indoctrinated sleeper agent. Use some imationation nd you can ee how deep a twist like IT can be.

No, I'm not.  I clearly reference the twist (albeit with a euphamism) in my post.  I can see the possibilities, no problem there.  My point is that it doesn't rectify the bad writing.  It doesn't make ME3 suddenly turn into 'The Usual Suspects'.  Starbrat and what followed is still bad writing regardless of the solution.

Also my other point is that under the IT banner people are now calling for the very things many of them claimed to despise like cutting out content like the ending of the game and offering it as DLC later (again some people have asked to be charged for it).

They your not seeing what was bad wriing in ME3. Everythingbut the ending is great writing. Only the ending is bad writing. If IT is used to fix the ending, it become great writing. Get it?