622 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's a coincidence. Just like most conspiracy theories. The IT is dead.

For someone that is quick to write it off as non-sense with facts you are also very quick to accept the anti-I.T. with no facts. 

Science is my fact. It has existed for a millenia and is beyond a lot of people's comprehension.

It's a fun thing to discuss but it doesn't mean anything.

This is beyond hilarious in the context of Mass Effect....the science has long since been ditched. I mean machines made of organic matter should really terminate this "science" argument.....the premise and main villains of the ME franchise have nothing scientifical about them.

I highly suggest you drop the "science" argument.

I really don't think that's what Taboo meant.

I feel bad. I'm only trying to prevent some serious depression in four or five months. Go open a psychology textbook and read about confirmation bias. That's the sciene I use.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

ashwind wrote...

KevShep wrote...

I did read (it did not make any sense there were too many holes then before)...The I.T. follows the codex and the process of indoctrination a little to well for it to be a coincidence. Now I know that they mean be atristic integrity.
If you have so many coincidences at a time then it just mite not be a coincidence.

Please point me to the Codex that says: Indoctrination involves some sort of hallucination test and if you fail the test, you are indoctrinated. This is what the I.T. suggest and it is rubbish.

Saren, Be****a even TIM they all feel something even when they do not acknowledge it. They feel that something is screwing with their minds. When did Shepard feel all this? When did Shepard hear noises, experience memory disorientation, etc.

Every time (s)he woke up, "are you alright?", Shep-"I didn't sleep very well, sorry"

I know of two instances of this, there may have been 3. During sleep is where these 'visions' were implemented.

Forced, simple disconnections from the player, like the rest of the game.

Dreams about loss aren't exactly visions or remembering memories that are not yours, are they?

To be perfectly honest, yes. I've had a few of my 'own', that were clearly not my memories playing tricks on me.

It's called.........wait for it...........being empathic, i get them all the time.

[FatalX7.0]

Where is the paranoia and the superstitious awe? Why isn't he experiencing the memories of other people?

[Darth_Trethon]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

[
This is beyond hilarious in the context of Mass Effect....the science has long since been ditched. I mean machines made of organic matter should really terminate this "science" argument.....the premise and main villains of the ME franchise have nothing scientifical about them.

I highly suggest you drop the "science" argument.

Sciene in regards to the psychology behind your delusion. Your comment only furthers my belief that you truly have no idea how far you are on the downward spiral.

You'll be exorcising me next.

I fully know you were talking about the IT but you cannot escape the involvement of dreams and hallucinations....Shepard hallucinated the Catalyst as a real boy at the start of the game and proceeded to have dreams about the Catalyst....probably dreams and hallucinations induced by the Catalyst...clearly not real. These are FACT within the game's story so your attempts to claim it can't be true because there's no science to it go out the window because the science was thrown in the dumpster from the start of ME1.

I took psychology classes too but the facts are already there....if anything your deial of it is far more resembling of the confirmation bias because you need to ignore a lot more to be gainst than to reasonably see there isn't a lot to deny it....and even that can be reasonably explained.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 26 avril 2012 - 02:57 .

[Chris Readman]

KevShep wrote...

1.Shepard IS dreaming in some places in ME3 that revolve around the kid!
2.According to the codex people with signs of indoctrination will hear "whispers" in there mind.......In shepards dreams (if you have dialogue on the screen) you can hear your firends whispering your name and the GAME has them labled as "Whispers" instead of the names of your firends. 
3.The rachni queen has mentioned that the indoctrination can make them see oily shadows and in shepards dreams we see oily shadows of people.
4. It is never mentioned why the catalyst looks like the kid in his/her dreams and shepard seems to accept this like one WOULD in a dream!

Well, they are whispers, why wouldn't they be labeled as whispers? Sure, people hear voices when indoctrinated, but don't people hear voices normally in dreams as well? It's not conclusive proof.

The problem with the rachni queen argument is that it requires knowledge regarding the rachni queen for people to understand the link. What about the new players that Bioware has been trying to bring into the series with the third game, are they excluded from this supposedly vital clue? Also, the rachni speaks with a kind of poetic and metaphorical language, using words that most closely resemble the idea that she is trying to convey. It should not be a direct translation.

Everything regarding the child is just... just something I felt that Bioware should have avoided. It was a mistake to include the child to invoke some sort of emotional response. It seems more like a failed attempt at drawing out emotional response than an indication of something deeper.

[FatalX7.0]

ohupthis wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

ashwind wrote...

KevShep wrote...

I did read (it did not make any sense there were too many holes then before)...The I.T. follows the codex and the process of indoctrination a little to well for it to be a coincidence. Now I know that they mean be atristic integrity.
If you have so many coincidences at a time then it just mite not be a coincidence.

Please point me to the Codex that says: Indoctrination involves some sort of hallucination test and if you fail the test, you are indoctrinated. This is what the I.T. suggest and it is rubbish.

Saren, Be****a even TIM they all feel something even when they do not acknowledge it. They feel that something is screwing with their minds. When did Shepard feel all this? When did Shepard hear noises, experience memory disorientation, etc.

Every time (s)he woke up, "are you alright?", Shep-"I didn't sleep very well, sorry"

I know of two instances of this, there may have been 3. During sleep is where these 'visions' were implemented.

Forced, simple disconnections from the player, like the rest of the game.

Dreams about loss aren't exactly visions or remembering memories that are not yours, are they?

To be perfectly honest, yes. I've had a few of my 'own', that were clearly not my memories playing tricks on me.

It's called.........wait for it...........being empathic, i get them all the time.

We're talking about Shepard and indoctrination in a game, not you and your pointless dreams.

I dreamt about a giant ice cream cone that said I was the savior of the world. Am I indoctrinated?

[FatalX7.0]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

[
This is beyond hilarious in the context of Mass Effect....the science has long since been ditched. I mean machines made of organic matter should really terminate this "science" argument.....the premise and main villains of the ME franchise have nothing scientifical about them.

I highly suggest you drop the "science" argument.

Sciene in regards to the psychology behind your delusion. Your comment only furthers my belief that you truly have no idea how far you are on the downward spiral.

You'll be exorcising me next.

I fully know you were talking about the IT but you cannot escape the involvement of dreams and hallucinations....Shepard hallucinated the Catalyst as a real boy at the start of the game and proceeded to have dreams about the Catalyst....probably dreams and hallucinations induced by the Catalyst...clearly not real. These are FACT within the game's story so your attempts to claim it can't be true because there's no science to it go out the window because the science was thrown in the dumpster from the start of ME1.

What the hell.

Where did that come from?

[KevShep]

Taboo-XX wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...


 It could simply be how Shepard perceives the catalyst and everything the catalyst says is true.

Is there is "any" proof of that?

No, I never claimed there was. I was just pointing out that what you were claiming was "proof" was not by providing a possible counter-example. It's very easy to disprove a proof (a bad one that is).

 The fact that we know is that it is Shepard's voice in the catalyst's! We now need to find out why and all other evidence ALREADY points to I.T. even without it.

Why would my female Shepard be hearing Mark Meer's voice?

His proof is clearly infallible. How can you argue with such damning proof?

Obviously can't.

I don't even know what he's saying anymore to be honest. His last response.........Jesus.

Would it be cool to see it? Yeah. Will it happen? Probably not.

Your not even WANTING to acknowlege that it mite be true so this is pointless no matter the facts or evidence. Ive been on both side of the line and everytime Iam on here someone finds more things and then it hit me...That is what Bioware wanted....speculations! The game is not over yet!

I am guessing that the rest of you have not heard the catalyst voice with headphones on  if your not understanding me.

[Taboo]

Yeah, those dreams can be explained by something in the real world.......it's called PTSD.

When you witness a traumatic event you dream about it........all the time.

This is science fact. People can dream without being indoctrinated. I do it ALL the time.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 26 avril 2012 - 02:59 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

ashwind wrote...

KevShep wrote...

I did read (it did not make any sense there were too many holes then before)...The I.T. follows the codex and the process of indoctrination a little to well for it to be a coincidence. Now I know that they mean be atristic integrity.
If you have so many coincidences at a time then it just mite not be a coincidence.

Please point me to the Codex that says: Indoctrination involves some sort of hallucination test and if you fail the test, you are indoctrinated. This is what the I.T. suggest and it is rubbish.

Saren, Be****a even TIM they all feel something even when they do not acknowledge it. They feel that something is screwing with their minds. When did Shepard feel all this? When did Shepard hear noises, experience memory disorientation, etc.

Every time (s)he woke up, "are you alright?", Shep-"I didn't sleep very well, sorry"

I know of two instances of this, there may have been 3. During sleep is where these 'visions' were implemented.

Forced, simple disconnections from the player, like the rest of the game.

Dreams about loss aren't exactly visions or remembering memories that are not yours, are they?

To be perfectly honest, yes. I've had a few of my 'own', that were clearly not my memories playing tricks on me.

It's called.........wait for it...........being empathic, i get them all the time.

We're talking about Shepard and indoctrination in a game, not you and your pointless dreams.

I dreamt about a giant ice cream cone that said I was the savior of the world. Am I indoctrinated?

The dreams I was referring to are just AN example, give it up already, geez.

AHHA!! we can't prove one way or the other, if you are or are not indoctrinated at this point, now can we?

Modifié par ohupthis, 26 avril 2012 - 03:01 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

I think parts of indoctrination theory still hold, Shep was definitely under indoc attacks throughout the game. I never liked the whole 'indoc means destroy is the best ending' argument.

The "You have hope, more then you know/deserve." could also mean Shep successfuly averted indoctrination. Which would mean IT is true up to the point Shep wakes up on the Citadel.

[FatalX7.0]

You are so deluded.

And it was already established that Casey Hudson wanted an ending that would cause speculation and thought-provoking discussion. Because he thought that it would be artsy, even though he ripped off the ending to Deus Ex.

You're really, really, really, really, really, really desperate here.

[KevShep]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Where is the paranoia and the superstitious awe? Why isn't he experiencing the memories of other people?

The paranoia and superstitous awe are more on the players part. Remember that Not all of these things are going to happen if you read the codex.

As for the experiencing the memories of others? Well... He wouldnt because no one is getting indoctrinated with him like they were on the deralic reaper in ME2.

[Darth_Trethon]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

What the hell.

Where did that come from?

Oppening scene....Catalyst playing with toy ship, minutes later Catalyst in vent and then Catalyst boarding shuttle that got blown up by reapers....forgot already? Go play the opening of the game again if you need?

Or are you going to say that the child and the dreams just accidentally happened to look exactly like the Catalyst.

[FatalX7.0]

ohupthis wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

ashwind wrote...

KevShep wrote...

I did read (it did not make any sense there were too many holes then before)...The I.T. follows the codex and the process of indoctrination a little to well for it to be a coincidence. Now I know that they mean be atristic integrity.
If you have so many coincidences at a time then it just mite not be a coincidence.

Please point me to the Codex that says: Indoctrination involves some sort of hallucination test and if you fail the test, you are indoctrinated. This is what the I.T. suggest and it is rubbish.

Saren, Be****a even TIM they all feel something even when they do not acknowledge it. They feel that something is screwing with their minds. When did Shepard feel all this? When did Shepard hear noises, experience memory disorientation, etc.

Every time (s)he woke up, "are you alright?", Shep-"I didn't sleep very well, sorry"

I know of two instances of this, there may have been 3. During sleep is where these 'visions' were implemented.

Forced, simple disconnections from the player, like the rest of the game.

Dreams about loss aren't exactly visions or remembering memories that are not yours, are they?

To be perfectly honest, yes. I've had a few of my 'own', that were clearly not my memories playing tricks on me.

It's called.........wait for it...........being empathic, i get them all the time.

We're talking about Shepard and indoctrination in a game, not you and your pointless dreams.

I dreamt about a giant ice cream cone that said I was the savior of the world. Am I indoctrinated?

AHHA!! we can't prove one way or the other, if you are or are not indoctrinated at this point, now can we?

Oh, shut up.

[DaBigDragon]

Wait, you people are actually in THAT much of a state of denial about how this video game ended, that you believed this Indoctrination theory thing was true???

Are you kidding me?

Modifié par DaBigDragon, 26 avril 2012 - 03:04 .

[FatalX7.0]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

What the hell.

Where did that come from?

Oppening scene....Catalyst playing with toy ship, minutes later Catalyst in vent and then Catalyst boarding shuttle that got blown up by reapers....forgot already? Go play the opening of the game again if you need?

Or are you going to say that the child and the dreams just accidentally happened to look exactly like the Catalyst.

My mind has been blown by the lack of coherence.

[KevShep]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yeah, those dreams can be explained by something in the real world.......it's called PTSD.

When you witness a traumatic event you dream about it........all the time.

This is science fact. People can dream without being indoctrinated. I do it ALL the time.

 (sarcasm)- I guess that Shepard has PTSD then and not something more fitting with the lore. 

[FatalX7.0]

DaBigDragon wrote...

Wait, you people are actually in THAT much of a state of denial about how this video game ended, that you believed this Indoctrination theory thing was real???

Are you kidding me?

It's like religion and mad prophets.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

[quote]FatalX7.0 wrote...

[quote]ohupthis wrote...

[quote]FatalX7.0 wrote...

[quote]ohupthis wrote...

[quote]FatalX7.0 wrote...

[quote]ohupthis wrote...

[quote]ashwind wrote...

[quote]KevShep wrote...

Oh, shut up.

[/quote]

Ok.

Modifié par ohupthis, 26 avril 2012 - 03:05 .

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yeah, those dreams can be explained by something in the real world.......it's called PTSD.

When you witness a traumatic event you dream about it........all the time.

This is science fact. People can dream without being indoctrinated. I do it ALL the time.

 (sarcasm)- I guess that Shepard has PTSD then and not something more fitting with the lore. 

PTSD is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

That's actually very fitting with what is going on. It's an anxiety disorder that can be caused by traumatic and stressful events that involve death. Like the death of millions upon millions of people that you are in charge of saving.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 26 avril 2012 - 03:06 .

[Taboo]

KevShep wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yeah, those dreams can be explained by something in the real world.......it's called PTSD.

When you witness a traumatic event you dream about it........all the time.

This is science fact. People can dream without being indoctrinated. I do it ALL the time.

 (sarcasm)- I guess that Shepard has PTSD then and not something more fitting with the lore. 

Are you serious? 

[Darth_Trethon]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yeah, those dreams can be explained by something in the real world.......it's called PTSD.

When you witness a traumatic event you dream about it........all the time.

This is science fact. People can dream without being indoctrinated. I do it ALL the time.

So did the catalyst bend Shepard's mind to have Shep see him as a child.....Shep is clearly stomped and has no argument against it unlike with the Illusive Man....after the Illusive Man controlled shepard just long enough to make him shoot Anderson....are you saying the Catalyst can do less?

As I said arguing against the IT has A LOT more holes than arguing for because the Catalyst is there from the start.

[KevShep]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

DaBigDragon wrote...

Wait, you people are actually in THAT much of a state of denial about how this video game ended, that you believed this Indoctrination theory thing was real???

Are you kidding me?

It's like religion and mad prophets.

That or...a scientist that is called to be stupid and is mocked when infact that scientist has the answer to a problem that others are not able/wiling to see.

[MegumiAzusa]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

What the hell.

Where did that come from?

Oppening scene....Catalyst playing with toy ship, minutes later Catalyst in vent and then Catalyst boarding shuttle that got blown up by reapers....forgot already? Go play the opening of the game again if you need?

Or are you going to say that the child and the dreams just accidentally happened to look exactly like the Catalyst.

It is unclear when Shep imagined it for the first time. My guess would be when he ran into the building that got blown up but I guess the kid playing with the fighter model was real.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 26 avril 2012 - 03:10 .