327 réponses à ce sujet

[hex23]

Arcian wrote...


Let me clarify:

1: If you chose Destroy, you somehow wake up magically free of Indoctrination, which according to three games of lore isn't possible because Indoctrination is utterly permanent. No one in Mass Effect has EVER escaped indoctrination permanently. Yes, people with tremendous willpower can resist it for a short while, but a short while is not the several hours required to fight the final battle. At best, Shepard would wake up, get his/her bearings for a few minutes and then turn Reaper Mode and attack friends and allies after being mentally overpowered by the Reapers.

2: If you chose Synthesis/Control, you are indoctrinated, losing the game instantly which makes Destroy a non-choice - thus removing what little choice remained in the RGB scene. The whole point of Mass Effect is to not force non-choices on the player, which is precisely what the IDT is doing.

3: The Reapers do not indoctrinate via hallucinations or mental "dream persuasion" - they literally, physically damage the brain with electromagnetic energy and infra/ultrasound, degenerating thought processes to make their victims susceptible to subliminal control. Permanent. Brain. Damage. The hallucinations and voices are symptoms, not causes as the IDT would have us believe. By the time you are experiencing hallucinations and hearing voices, you have already been irreversibly indoctrinated - thus, the IDT's presumption that Destroy frees Shepard of indoctrination is highly erroneous.

1. They've dismissed the lore before on a whim, so I don't understand citing lore as a reason against IT. The precedent has already been set, lore is background dressing. For better or worse they drop it if it's inconvenient.

2. As is, the endings are more or less identical, and most of the choices you made during the course of the series were rendered pointless.

3. Again, citing lore isn't wise. They could easily wave all of this away with "Shepard is special". They could go half way and make Shepard break the indoctrination long enough to finish the fight, but go into a coma due to mental stress. That would keep him in the series but as a back ground character if they decide to do "ME4".

[ahandsomeshark]

balance5050 wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

I think Indoctrination is fairly boring, too obvious.

And kind of a cheap thing to fall back on, also not fond of the idea that they withheld the "real" ending from us. It's all very silly.

Too obvious, that's a critique I don't often hear about IT.

Other games have with held endings before; Prince of Persia (2008), Final Fantasy XIII-2,  and Asura's Wrath are all doing the same thing. Mass Effect is just the most popular.

What's the point of this? Are you trying to justify it? Does that make it right because other games did it?

Like I said, I'm not fond of that.

No, not justifying it, just saying this isn't the first time. It's not like I'm happy about the "ending" we got.

It would definitely be the first time a game did it without directly stating there would be continuation in game. Let alone did it and then spent nearly 2 months not saying it. It just doesn't make any sense to think the situations are comparable at this point.

[balance5050]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

I think Indoctrination is fairly boring, too obvious.

And kind of a cheap thing to fall back on, also not fond of the idea that they withheld the "real" ending from us. It's all very silly.

Too obvious, that's a critique I don't often hear about IT.

Other games have with held endings before; Prince of Persia (2008), Final Fantasy XIII-2,  and Asura's Wrath are all doing the same thing. Mass Effect is just the most popular.

yeah but those games stated IN GAME at the end that more was coming.

There's no explanation for why EA/Bioware would have not stated there was more coming (not just clarification) by now, especially not one that is in anyway reconcilable with the fact EA is a publicly traded company with responsibility to it's share holders.

Final words of the series... "DLC"

yeah but the game also dropped you well before the ending and once again most of the public statements since then have basically said any DLC would be PRE ending. In complete contrasts those games DIRECTLY in no uncertain terms stated there would be a continuation of the story POST ending. How is it even comparable. Why would Bioware/EA have not directly stated it by now.

I'm not going to try to explain EA's PR strategies. It has been bad regardless of whether IT is true or not. All I know is that companies can't talk about DLC before it's released because of something called an "EMBARGO"

[balance5050]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

I think Indoctrination is fairly boring, too obvious.

And kind of a cheap thing to fall back on, also not fond of the idea that they withheld the "real" ending from us. It's all very silly.

Too obvious, that's a critique I don't often hear about IT.

Other games have with held endings before; Prince of Persia (2008), Final Fantasy XIII-2,  and Asura's Wrath are all doing the same thing. Mass Effect is just the most popular.

What's the point of this? Are you trying to justify it? Does that make it right because other games did it?

Like I said, I'm not fond of that.

No, not justifying it, just saying this isn't the first time. It's not like I'm happy about the "ending" we got.

It would definitely be the first time a game did it without directly stating there would be continuation in game. Let alone did it and then spent nearly 2 months not saying it. It just doesn't make any sense to think the situations are comparable at this point.

Wut? Have you actually played any of those games I mentioned? Asura's Wrath does EXACTLY this by giving you a crap vague ending. FF13 has their "paradox" endings and Prince of Persia put their entire epilogue (closure) in DLC form.

[FatalX7.0]

Asura's Wrath..

Ahh, Capcom.


Also, I played Prince of Persia. I didn't really care that much. As in it wasn't super great and I didn't really care to know what happened.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 26 avril 2012 - 07:21 .

[balance5050]

I just hope this lash back causes future games to have good endings that are actually on the disc.

[balance5050]

Can't wait for summer!!

[balance5050]

I.T. has so much good stuff to offer.

[rsp101289]

Look, the ending wasn't finished but since the game was already delayed once EA made Bioware ship it. The game was supposed to continue after the indoc attempt but they ran out of time. The extended cut DLC will either allow you to play on and fight Harbinger or just show Sheppard waking up and witnessing the end of the war unfold (based on your EMS and past choices). Technically they did not ship a complete game as there is no plausible resolution, Bioware may have been trolling us all along and there WILL be a ME4 or just everything will be cleared up by the DLC. Whether you get to play further is up in the air. I am convinced the Indoc theory is reality and of course Bioware won't confirm or deny it until the DLC comes out. The only thing that confuses the Indoc theory is the old man/child at the very end. Other than that, Indoc is SOLID.

[Raiil]

Weren't the barbarians indoctrinated by the dead Reaper, what they called the Leviathan of Dis or something? I was under the impression that the Reaper physical form emitted Indoc rays or w/e, but I could be misremembering.

[draken-heart]

IMHO, if they went w/Indoctrination theory, it would open up to a Decent conclusion, instead of thrusting ME2 romance continuation down people's throats. As it stands i think that is what they want, is for people to play ME2 again and romance someone from ME2 and continue that into ME3. my head says that right now, the only romances that get any sort of hope for a happy ending is the ones w/male Shepard's LI and Kelly.

plus neither ME or ME2 ended the primary problem: Defeating the Reapers. so by the ending defenders logic the series has not ended yet anyways until BW comes out and answers IT. (DA:O-O:WH and DA2 ended with the hero disappearing because their stories ended there) ME4 would go back in time if they made it (with the current "endings") and since Mass Effect is SHEPARD'S STORY, that would mean that they are canonizing an origin for Shepard. Look how DA2 fared with a set origin for the protagonist: a human born to a family with an apostate sister and Father and being one as well, potentially, and they lived in a farming village (the same one that is visited in DA:O).

Modifié par draken-heart, 26 avril 2012 - 07:41 .

[FatalX7.0]

balance5050 wrote...

I.T. has so much good stuff to offer.

That's an opinion.

[FatalX7.0]

rsp101289 wrote...

Look, the ending wasn't finished but since the game was already delayed once EA made Bioware ship it. The game was supposed to continue after the indoc attempt but they ran out of time. The extended cut DLC will either allow you to play on and fight Harbinger or just show Sheppard waking up and witnessing the end of the war unfold (based on your EMS and past choices). Technically they did not ship a complete game as there is no plausible resolution, Bioware may have been trolling us all along and there WILL be a ME4 or just everything will be cleared up by the DLC. Whether you get to play further is up in the air. I am convinced the Indoc theory is reality and of course Bioware won't confirm or deny it until the DLC comes out. The only thing that confuses the Indoc theory is the old man/child at the very end. Other than that, Indoc is SOLID.

The game was delayed so that Mass Effect 3 wouldn't be competing with other games for Christmas.

In the Final Hours app, they said they tried to use Indoctrination in game, but they scrapped it. Didn't know how to do it, etc.

[Sashimi_taco]

Because crimes against humanity is ART and you peasants with your morality and knowledge of human history just don't GET our ARTISTIC INTEGRITY! You are not allowed to call us bigots because it is art! Don't you see that white cis men in first world countries come up with the BEST solutions to the cycle of war and violence?

[draken-heart]

ending defenders, explain Joker fleeing the battle when he, himself, said that he would follow Shepard into hell, but not into her quarters (for Katelynn, my fem!Shep, on joker not following her to bed, i chalk that up to him knowing that she is gay, and does not want any angry potential female suitors after him for stealing their girl). and do not use the old "he thought the battle was lost", none of the other fleets were fleeing.

[MegaSovereign]

StElmo wrote...

IamBlue wrote...

Because then they would have sold us a game without an end, instead of one with a bad ending...

True but it is also a genius bit of writing and the DLC is free, so really no harm is done.

I fail to see how it's genius writing. And not everyone has access to internet.

[draken-heart]

MegaSovereign wrote...

StElmo wrote...

IamBlue wrote...

Because then they would have sold us a game without an end, instead of one with a bad ending...

True but it is also a genius bit of writing and the DLC is free, so really no harm is done.

I fail to see how it's genius writing. And not everyone has access to internet.

that can be solved easily by:

        A: getting internet connection and a job so you can pay for it
or
        B: if you have internet access at home, USE A WIRED CONNECTION.

[balance5050]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

I.T. has so much good stuff to offer.

That's an opinion.

Thanks captain obvious? Are opinions not allowed?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Arcian wrote...

Listen to yourself...
http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing
You're indoctrinated!

Modifié par Lizardviking, 26 avril 2012 - 08:00 .

[dweller]

Modifié par dweller, 26 avril 2012 - 08:03 .

[dweller]

zambot wrote...
^^This.  I used to like IT yesterday a whole lot better than I do today. After participating in this thread, I now get the same vibes from IT people that I get from overly religous people. 

Damn, that's exactly the feeling I've been getting lately as well.

Modifié par dweller, 26 avril 2012 - 08:05 .

[Raiil]

Arcian wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Weren't the barbarians indoctrinated by the dead Reaper, what they called the Leviathan of Dis or something? I was under the impression that the Reaper physical form emitted Indoc rays or w/e, but I could be misremembering.

I laughed way harder than I should have. Thank you.

You say potato, I say potato.... In my defence, damn iPhone autocorrect. XD

Seriously though, was I mistaken?