327 réponses à ce sujet

[IamBlue]

eddieoctane wrote...

IamBlue wrote...

Because then they would have sold us a game without an end, instead of one with a bad ending...

And? Capcom did it, yet you hear much more about Mass Effect 3 than Asura's Wrath.

Inocmplete game>crappy one. The former can always be fixed with an addon. The later means the development team failed, as artists or whatever they want to call themselves. And yes, it is totally posible to fail at art.

I agree. I would be really happy if they went with IT. But I just don't think that they intended to.

As for Asura's Wrath, we just don't hear so much about it because it doesn't have so many big fans like Mass Effect does, I believe.

[LelianaHawke]

Nauks wrote...

Based on what exactly? how they'd present it to us (and possibly expand on it) is an unknown.

See my posts above.

The cutscenes which show the crucible firing are from the third person view. At that point you cease to be looking through Shepard's eyes.

Somehow the Crucible needs to be triggered, and if not via a conduit, it'd have to be by some sort of button or trigger.

We already know that much, that the Crucible must fire.

Modifié par LelianaHawke, 26 avril 2012 - 05:18 .

[Makrys]

LelianaHawke wrote...

But they all have to account for the existing cutscenes of what happens, all of which involve a big energy pulse from the Crucible. You can't just... overwrite parts of the game to prove a theory.

You obviously have not seen Acavyos' video. It explains that. It was all in Shepard's mind still. It was him imagining 'hope'. If it wasn't a dream then it was TERRIBLE writing. Bioware has never been that bad.

[eddieoctane]

LelianaHawke wrote...

But they all have to account for the existing cutscenes of what happens, all of which involve a big energy pulse from the Crucible. You can't just... overwrite parts of the game to prove a theory.

Not overwrite, just dismiss. Say it was all images planted into Shep's mind by the Reapers. It's called a retcon. Literature is full of them. And no one ever complained about Jack Kirby's "artistic integrity" every time someone does a redux on Cap or Hulk.

[LelianaHawke]

Makrys wrote...
You obviously have not seen Acavyos' video. It explains that. It was all in Shepard's mind still. It was him imagining 'hope'. If it wasn't a dream then it was TERRIBLE writing. Bioware has never been that bad.

That's really just speculation.

You spend the entire game building the Crucible... and then its existence is shown to be a dream of hope spanning 40 hours of play?

Ok..

eddieoctane wrote...
Not overwrite, just dismiss. Say it was
all images planted into Shep's mind by the Reapers. It's called a
retcon. Literature is full of them. And no one ever complained about
Jack Kirby's "artistic integrity" every time someone does a redux on Cap
or Hulk.

That might be possible if building it hadn't been the entire game.

Modifié par LelianaHawke, 26 avril 2012 - 05:21 .

[Makrys]

LelianaHawke wrote...

See my posts above.

The cutscenes which show the crucible firing are from the third person view. At that point you cease to be looking through Shepard's eyes.

Somehow the Crucible needs to be triggered, and if not via a conduit, it'd have to be by some sort of button or trigger.

We already know that much, that the Crucible must fire.

Speaking of 'eyes'. Shepard's are most obviously the eyes of an Indoctrinated person at the end of the control and synthesis choices. His eyes turn to blue with 3 blue orbs around the pupil, just like Saren, TIM, and any husk you see. Just more proof that choosing anything other than destroy leaves Shepard indoctrinated. When you choose destroy, Shepard'e eyes are unchanged. Thus he is free from Harbinger's hold. Explain why in the control and synthesis endings his eyes turn to that of a husk, and his face dissolves and looks just like a husk. The eyes are key thing though. Clearly indoctrinated eyes.

[Makrys]

LelianaHawke wrote...

Makrys wrote...
You obviously have not seen Acavyos' video. It explains that. It was all in Shepard's mind still. It was him imagining 'hope'. If it wasn't a dream then it was TERRIBLE writing. Bioware has never been that bad.

That's really just speculation.

You spend the entire game building the Crucible... and then its existence is shown to be a dream of hope spanning 40 hours of play?

Ok..

NO. The Crucible hasn't been fired yet. The game is not over. The EC will actually 'end' the game. The Reapers are not dead, the Crucible hasn't been fired. Bioware intended this. You may hate them for it, but there are brilliant (albeit lame to your customers) marketing maneuvers behind this. Once the EC comes out and the end is revealed to be a giant awesome twist (or whatever the hell), they will get a jump in sales again. 

Regardless of sales, the IT would imply that the EC will show Shepard awakening as either indoctrinated, or free of indoctrination, and then he will still have to find a way to destroy the Reapers.

[LelianaHawke]

Speaking of 'eyes'. Shepard's are most obviously the eyes of an Indoctrinated person at the end of the control and synthesis choices. His eyes turn to blue with 3 blue orbs around the pupil, just like Saren, TIM, and any husk you see. Just more proof that choosing anything other than destroy leaves Shepard indoctrinated. When you choose destroy, Shepard'e eyes are unchanged. Thus he is free from Harbinger's hold. Explain why in the control and synthesis endings his eyes turn to that of a husk, and his face dissolves and looks just like a husk. The eyes are key thing though. Clearly indoctrinated eyes.

Shepard becomes the reapers in control, so obviously takes on some physical characteristics.

Shepard also uses the reaper tech in synthesis.

The eyes just show a merging of Shepard with reaper tech, not indoctrination.

[liggy002]

Makrys wrote...

LelianaHawke wrote...

See my posts above.

The cutscenes which show the crucible firing are from the third person view. At that point you cease to be looking through Shepard's eyes.

Somehow the Crucible needs to be triggered, and if not via a conduit, it'd have to be by some sort of button or trigger.

We already know that much, that the Crucible must fire.

Speaking of 'eyes'. Shepard's are most obviously the eyes of an Indoctrinated person at the end of the control and synthesis choices. His eyes turn to blue with 3 blue orbs around the pupil, just like Saren, TIM, and any husk you see. Just more proof that choosing anything other than destroy leaves Shepard indoctrinated. When you choose destroy, Shepard'e eyes are unchanged. Thus he is free from Harbinger's hold. Explain why in the control and synthesis endings his eyes turn to that of a husk, and his face dissolves and looks just like a husk. The eyes are key thing though. Clearly indoctrinated eyes.

   People have rebutted this by saying that it is just Shepard's cybernetic implants that he already has in his eyes.  But if you look at a picture of Shepard's cybernetic eyes, the dots around his eyes are oriented inversely  when compared to the dots in the indoctrinated eyes.  The indoctrinated eyes we see in synthesis and control ARE NOT Shepard's implants.

Modifié par liggy002, 26 avril 2012 - 05:25 .

[Sir Hecubus]

LelianaHawke wrote...

I'm not actually pessimistic. I enjoyed the current ending as I thought it left enough room for me to imagine how it all ended. I enjoy that.

But the IT is forcing an ending down my throat.

so essentially you prefer an ending that makes no sense, than an ending that is plausible? Whicch inturn can lead to an even better ending, and ending that mass effect 3,sheppard and the fans actually deserve.

I am not a huge fan of paying for an incomplete game(if IT is true), but if the real ending is released via free dlc, i can live with that.  and might have even praised Bioware for such a bold and crazy thing, but its too late for that now.  They are pretty cemented in their bad ending and just want to clarify it. 

Glad you enjoyed it, but i guess in order to enjoy it, one would have to ignore all the plot holes, backwards logic from the starchild, etc.  I just can't bring myself to do that.

[M0keys]

The Wonderful World of Corporate
P O L I T I C S

[Makrys]

LelianaHawke wrote...

Makrys wrote...
You obviously have not seen Acavyos' video. It explains that. It was all in Shepard's mind still. It was him imagining 'hope'. If it wasn't a dream then it was TERRIBLE writing. Bioware has never been that bad.

That's really just speculation.

And you saying the end was meant to be is just speculation. All of it is. But the IT actually makes sense of the endings. The endings as they are, are riddled with plot holes and inconsistencies. They make NO sense. Regardless of whether you like the open ended feel.

[LelianaHawke]

This topic is moving really fast.

Makrys wrote...

NO. The Crucible hasn't been fired yet. The game is not over. The EC will actually 'end' the game. The Reapers are not dead, the Crucible hasn't been fired. Bioware intended this. You may hate them for it, but there are brilliant (albeit lame to your customers) marketing maneuvers behind this. Once the EC comes out and the end is revealed to be a giant awesome twist (or whatever the hell), they will get a jump in sales again. 

Regardless of sales, the IT would imply that the EC will show Shepard awakening as either indoctrinated, or free of indoctrination, and then he will still have to find a way to destroy the Reapers.

My problem with that is the game implies Shepard to be completely out of time. all London forces are annihlated, and the fleets cannot go head-to-head with the reapers.

Unless Shepard fires the Crucible right that second, the reapers would swarm and overwhelm Shield Fleet.

Getting out of that losing position would involve more space magic than the current endings.

Modifié par LelianaHawke, 26 avril 2012 - 05:27 .

[Makrys]

liggy002 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

LelianaHawke wrote...

See my posts above.

The cutscenes which show the crucible firing are from the third person view. At that point you cease to be looking through Shepard's eyes.

Somehow the Crucible needs to be triggered, and if not via a conduit, it'd have to be by some sort of button or trigger.

We already know that much, that the Crucible must fire.

Speaking of 'eyes'. Shepard's are most obviously the eyes of an Indoctrinated person at the end of the control and synthesis choices. His eyes turn to blue with 3 blue orbs around the pupil, just like Saren, TIM, and any husk you see. Just more proof that choosing anything other than destroy leaves Shepard indoctrinated. When you choose destroy, Shepard'e eyes are unchanged. Thus he is free from Harbinger's hold. Explain why in the control and synthesis endings his eyes turn to that of a husk, and his face dissolves and looks just like a husk. The eyes are key thing though. Clearly indoctrinated eyes.

   People have rebutted this by saying that it is just Shepard's cybernetic implants that he already has in his eyes.  But if you look at a picture of Shepard's cybernetic eyes, the dots around his eyes are oriented inversely  when compared to the dots in the indoctrinated eyes.  The indoctrinated eyes we see in synthesis and control ARE NOT Shepard's implants.

No, they are not. But people will once again deny a direct link to IT just because they don't want to believe it. Indoctrinated eyes and implanted eyes look quite different. Shepard has the EXACT eye of a husk in the end. NOT coincidental by Bioware.

[Raiil]

Maybe because they think IT would create an even bigger s--tstorm than the current ending? They might not be wrong, either.

[HiddenKING]

M0keys wrote...

The Wonderful World of Corporate
P O L I T I C S

I really wanna get in that. I get to screw people over, and wear a suit on a daily basis. It's my dream job. 

[Makrys]

LelianaHawke wrote...

This topic is moving really fast.

Makrys wrote...

NO. The Crucible hasn't been fired yet. The game is not over. The EC will actually 'end' the game. The Reapers are not dead, the Crucible hasn't been fired. Bioware intended this. You may hate them for it, but there are brilliant (albeit lame to your customers) marketing maneuvers behind this. Once the EC comes out and the end is revealed to be a giant awesome twist (or whatever the hell), they will get a jump in sales again. 

Regardless of sales, the IT would imply that the EC will show Shepard awakening as either indoctrinated, or free of indoctrination, and then he will still have to find a way to destroy the Reapers.

My problem with that is the game implies Shepard to be completely out of time. all London forces are annihlated, and the fleets cannot go head-to-head with the reapers.

Unless Shepard fires the Crucible right that second, the reapers would swarm and overwhelm Shield Fleet.

Getting out of that losing position would involve more space magic than the current endings.

You don't know that. Depending on the EMS you assembled throughout the game it would make logical sense that the fleets could hold their own against the Reapers for a good while at least. I do not think it would simply be over in 10 minutes. You assembled a giant freaking army. They will put up a hell of a fight, and one thing Bioware didnt give us closure on is... what the hell happened to all of them? Something that I think the EC will explain, among other things.

[Nauks]

LelianaHawke wrote...

Nauks wrote...

Based on what exactly? how they'd present it to us (and possibly expand on it) is an unknown.

See my posts above.

The cutscenes which show the crucible firing are from the third person view. At that point you cease to be looking through Shepard's eyes.

Somehow the Crucible needs to be triggered, and if not via a conduit, it'd have to be by some sort of button or trigger.

We already know that much, that the Crucible must fire.

Supposing the I.T. is true, we don't even actually see the Crucible hook up to the Citadel. (in real life)
The Citadel doesn't actually blow up either, the whole point of the choices/Citadel sequence is rejecting or fully succumbing to Harbinger's will.

Showing the final events in 3rd person doesn't automatically nullify it as part of Shepard's Reaper induced hallucination sequence.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Meh, I think at this point if the DLC isn't supporting Indoctrination Theory, I'll just uninstall it. IT would be, if confirmed, genius writing. Keeping the ending as is would be a massive slap in the face, the fan base would start to become BiowarEA's abused spouse.

[ahandsomeshark]

Also because of an obsession with control, really if you look into info about what influences most of the decisions around major media companies/any majorly vertically integrated industry maintaining complete control is usually a huge driving factor. And unfortunately despite the younger geeks in the bottom most of the execs in the gaming industry are from that same business school mindset. Which is why so many things about how business make decisions makes zero sense to the end customer.

[eddieoctane]

LelianaHawke wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...
Not overwrite, just dismiss. Say it was all images planted into Shep's mind by the Reapers. It's called a retcon. Literature is full of them. And no one ever complained about Jack Kirby's "artistic integrity" every time someone does a redux on Cap or Hulk.

That might be possible if building it hadn't been the entire game.

I'm not talking about retconning out the Crucible, just getting rid of the sequence that occurs after Harbinger blasts Shepard when he rushes to the blue beam.

Why the hell is it called the "conduit" anyway? The conduit was on Ilos and connected to the mini-relay near across from Barla Von's old office.

[Stalker]

Well, they want to keep their artistic integrity. I have no idea why they would defend a burning pile of inartistic dirt like that, but it's their selfish decision.

I think they are very much aware that 80% of dislikers (who are 90% of overall community) would love, or could at least accept IT. The "Extended Cut" however is a shot into the blue for them.

IT would be a free pass into the fan's hearts, but as long as their "artistic vision" is more important to them than the fans... it won't happen.

[Necrotron]

So many ways they had available to please their fanbase.

Indoc Theory was awesome, too bad it's just a pipe dream.

They went with just add cinematics on top of the nonsense ending.

Not sure their extended cut DLC will have the affect they hope it will.

Modifié par Bathaius, 26 avril 2012 - 05:34 .

[Makrys]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Meh, I think at this point if the DLC isn't supporting Indoctrination Theory, I'll just uninstall it. IT would be, if confirmed, genius writing. Keeping the ending as is would be a massive slap in the face, the fan base would start to become BiowarEA's abused spouse.

The IT is brilliant writing. Its just that a lot of people will need it explained to them immensely for them to understand why. Most people take a first glance at it and throw it out the window without even studying it. It makes a lot more sense than most give it credit for. I wouldn't be in here defending it, if it didn't. I'm not wasting my time for nothing. But then again, its all speculation.. so I guess I am. DARN YOU, BIOWARE!!!! *shakes fist* 

[LelianaHawke]

Nauks wrote...

Supposing the I.T. is true, we don't even actually see the Crucible hook up to the Citadel. (in real life)
The Citadel doesn't actually blow up either, the whole point of the choices/Citadel sequence is rejecting or fully succumbing to Harbinger's will.

Showing the final events in 3rd person doesn't automatically nullify it as part of Shepard's Reaper induced hallucination sequence.

Well what exactly happens if players succumb to Harbinger's will?

"LOL game over?"

Somehow I doubt that such a railroad would be put right at the end. And if it were, it would destroy all the choice that the game purports to give.