327 réponses à ce sujet

[ahandsomeshark]

LelianaHawke wrote...

So the DLC 'reveals' the IT... and then what? Shepard pushes a button and the reapers all die? How anti-climatic.

then we find out Shepard is still on earth and the real battle (with tactical decisions, suicide mission like gameplay and the inclusion of your war assets and former squad members starts)

[IamBlue]

LelianaHawke wrote...

Nauks wrote...

Supposing the I.T. is true, we don't even actually see the Crucible hook up to the Citadel. (in real life)
The Citadel doesn't actually blow up either, the whole point of the choices/Citadel sequence is rejecting or fully succumbing to Harbinger's will.

Showing the final events in 3rd person doesn't automatically nullify it as part of Shepard's Reaper induced hallucination sequence.

Well what exactly happens if players succumb to Harbinger's will?

"LOL game over?"

Somehow I doubt that such a railroad would be put right at the end. And if it were, it would destroy all the choice that the game purports to give.

Game over is better than that synthesis ending.  

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

I think somebody at Bioware or EA is just really, really devoted to killing off Commander Shepard. That was what got me the most about any of the ending(s); how Shepard's death seemed contrived and shoe-horned in. For instance, why does control require Shepard's death? The Catalyst already has control of the Reapers, so can't he just make them leave, then return when organics slip up? Why does he have to kill Shepard?

They've said ME3 was the end of Shepard's story, but not the ME series, so maybe they just want him out of the way and gone. And not just as in dead and buried, but to demonstratively kill off the very idea of Commander Shepard, including his/her fanbase. This seems to me to be why they're so reluctant to change the ending, even when given an easy out. They might have planned a virtual reboot for ME4, starting a new series that is radically different than its predecessor.

That's the cynic in me talking; I'm still waiting for the EC, and holding out hope that they've actually been listening.

[ahandsomeshark]

XxDarkTimexX wrote...

people who don't believe in the IT theory don't know how to analyze the story about mass effect 3 or they are just to lazy to think at all but i no there are some things that don't make sense but isn't that the point of the ending at least the the IT theory gives the fans a better ending story about shepard than the whole gears of war 3 ending. *oh look a button *shepard presses the button* oh look the reapers are died wow now that was a better ending to war* i think not that is a lame ass way to end a war against the reapers it should be more epic and original than want most people have come up with in the first place. take for example how LOTR ended, matrix ended, star wars, star trek ended, etc

What do you mean by believe in the IT theory? Like believe it was bioware's intention and the real ending is coming soon? Cause bioware has basically shot that idea to hell.

Or do you mean believe in it as in go with it because it's better than the ending we got? Cause I agree it's better than the ending we got but I don't think that means we should be happy with paying 60+ dollars for the right to use our imagination. 

[MisterJB]

Because the endings are far, far better than Indocrination Theory.
Oh they aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But to go from bad to worse; AKA RGB to IT; would be idiotic.

[ahandsomeshark]

eddieoctane wrote...

IamBlue wrote...

Because then they would have sold us a game without an end, instead of one with a bad ending...

And? Capcom did it, yet you hear much more about Mass Effect 3 than Asura's Wrath.

Inocmplete game>crappy one. The former can always be fixed with an addon. The later means the development team failed, as artists or whatever they want to call themselves. And yes, it is totally posible to fail at art.

Well I imagine you hear more about ME3 because

• Asura's Wrath either had a much smaller fan/player base
• anyone who still buys capcom games in 2012 is doing so because they enjoy being screwed over. (this is less of a theory and more the only logical conclusion given the information present)

Modifié par ahandsomeshark, 26 avril 2012 - 05:46 .

[eddieoctane]

LelianaHawke wrote...

Nauks wrote...

Supposing the I.T. is true, we don't even actually see the Crucible hook up to the Citadel. (in real life)
The Citadel doesn't actually blow up either, the whole point of the choices/Citadel sequence is rejecting or fully succumbing to Harbinger's will.

Showing the final events in 3rd person doesn't automatically nullify it as part of Shepard's Reaper induced hallucination sequence.

Well what exactly happens if players succumb to Harbinger's will?

"LOL game over?"

Somehow I doubt that such a railroad would be put right at the end. And if it were, it would destroy all the choice that the game purports to give.

That's been dealt with in the innumerable IT threads. One variation on it is that if Shep chooses destroy, he is free from indoctrination and able to live on happily ever after following his return to consciousness and epic beat down on Harbinger. Other options, he is indoctrinated, and post final showdown, must commit suicide just like Saren to prevent himself from trying to help the Reapers. LI or other squadmate then does whatever action is necessary to stop the Reapers for good as Shepard bleeds out.

Aside from Arrival and the mission inside the Geth Consensus, you always have a squad with you. Against Saren, the Human-Reaper larva, Kai Leng. You;re never alone. For the entire final sequence to be solo seems odd. They really should have been there at the end.

[Nauks]

LelianaHawke wrote...

Nauks wrote...

Supposing the I.T. is true, we don't even actually see the Crucible hook up to the Citadel. (in real life)
The Citadel doesn't actually blow up either, the whole point of the choices/Citadel sequence is rejecting or fully succumbing to Harbinger's will.

Showing the final events in 3rd person doesn't automatically nullify it as part of Shepard's Reaper induced hallucination sequence.

Well what exactly happens if players succumb to Harbinger's will?

"LOL game over?"

Somehow I doubt that such a railroad would be put right at the end. And if it were, it would destroy all the choice that the game purports to give.

What happens? well you get to specualte of course!  Tbh I'd ask Bioware for speciffics.
I.T. logic suggests that Star-Jar is a projection by Harbinger, trying to bs you into choosing synthesis, so I'd say best guess you become part of the human reaper, under the guise of choosing what you thought was the optimal solution.

We don't have much in the way of choice at the moment anyways, not in a cohearent, true-to-the-rest-of-the-game kind of way at least, using the current set-up as a red-herring puzzle sounds a hell of a lot more interesting (to me anyways) than last minute Space Magic logic.

Modifié par Nauks, 26 avril 2012 - 05:44 .

[LelianaHawke]

The key problem I see with that is that one is clearly good, and one is clearly bad.

All it would result in is players reloading save games to get the Shepard lives ending, just how players gravitated to Destroy because it's the only one where Shepard lives.

[Makrys]

MisterJB wrote...

Because the endings are far, far better than Indocrination Theory.
Oh they aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But to go from bad to worse; AKA RGB to IT; would be idiotic.

You have simply GOT to be kidding me. Was your head screwed on when you saw the ending? This is laughable. I guess if you enjoy plotholes, lying star brats, inconsistencies in story telling, and blue red green decision making, then yeah you could enjoy it. It's like building a lego house. Blue, green, or red lego? Hmmm, Imma go with red because its my favorite color. Either way I still build a house in the end, they would just be different colors. La la la la la, doo dee doo, ooh colored play doh!! 

[ahandsomeshark]

I'm confused do people who believe in IT believe future ending DLC was the plan and/or believe in it because they think Bioware just couldn't write something as bad as what we got (because once again most information we have shoots the last idea down). Or do they believe it because it's better than what we got and they'll take anything? Because there seems to be conflicting opinions in here on that.

Like do you guys think Bioware intended IT or do you just want other fans to believe IT cause you think it makes sense? I'm so confused by the entire IT fandom.

I'd also disagree that IT was brilliant writing UNLESS it was done because of the time crunch and they planned on releasing a real ending, which once again goes against most of the information we've gotten post release.

[Makrys]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I'm confused do people who believe in IT believe future ending DLC was the plan and/or believe in it because they think Bioware just couldn't write something as bad as what we got (because once again most information we have shoots the last idea down). Or do they believe it because it's better than what we got and they'll take anything? Because there seems to be conflicting opinions in here on that.

Like do you guys think Bioware intended IT or do you just want other fans to believe IT cause you think it makes sense? I'm so confused by the entire IT fandom.

I'd also disagree that IT was brilliant writing UNLESS it was done because of the time crunch and they planned on releasing a real ending, which once again goes against most of the information we've gotten post release.

I believe it was intended, yes. I think everything post launch has been a deflection of their intentions. They don't want to give away what they are building as the best ending in a modern sci fi thriller (i think it could be). So any questions about the IT are calmly brushed aside, instead of outright denied. They even go as far so to 'hint' in the opposite direction of IT. I think this is all to build speculation, to build suspense, so that when the EC finally is revealed and IT is true (we'll see), then the wow and shock factor would be there. 

[Nauks]

LelianaHawke wrote...

The key problem I see with that is that one is clearly good, and one is clearly bad.

All it would result in is players reloading save games to get the Shepard lives ending, just how players gravitated to Destroy because it's the only one where Shepard lives.

Look at it as another level of interactive storytelling, or a social experiment if you wanna get fancy.
A fair amount of us who later got into I.T. were initially fooled into choosing synthesis or control, effectively being indoctrinated as a player, not only as Shepard, a mindf*ck of that caliber almost makes the ending debacle forgiveable, almost.

Naturally a lot of players would chose destroy after the fact, but so what?  we still re-watch things like Fight Club or The Sixth Sense even knowing the outcome.

[IamBlue]

Makrys wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I'm confused do people who believe in IT believe future ending DLC was the plan and/or believe in it because they think Bioware just couldn't write something as bad as what we got (because once again most information we have shoots the last idea down). Or do they believe it because it's better than what we got and they'll take anything? Because there seems to be conflicting opinions in here on that.

Like do you guys think Bioware intended IT or do you just want other fans to believe IT cause you think it makes sense? I'm so confused by the entire IT fandom.

I'd also disagree that IT was brilliant writing UNLESS it was done because of the time crunch and they planned on releasing a real ending, which once again goes against most of the information we've gotten post release.

I believe it was intended, yes. I think everything post launch has been a deflection of their intentions. They don't want to give away what they are building as the best ending in a modern sci fi thriller (i think it could be). So any questions about the IT are calmly brushed aside, instead of outright denied. They even go as far so to 'hint' in the opposite direction of IT. I think this is all to build speculation, to build suspense, so that when the EC finally is revealed and IT is true (we'll see), then the wow and shock factor would be there. 

I really hope you are right!

[Jadebaby]

delphonic wrote...

Without indoctrination theory we have no hope.

snip*.

[Sir Hecubus]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I'm confused do people who believe in IT believe future ending DLC was the plan and/or believe in it because they think Bioware just couldn't write something as bad as what we got (because once again most information we have shoots the last idea down). Or do they believe it because it's better than what we got and they'll take anything? Because there seems to be conflicting opinions in here on that.

Like do you guys think Bioware intended IT or do you just want other fans to believe IT cause you think it makes sense? I'm so confused by the entire IT fandom.

I'd also disagree that IT was brilliant writing UNLESS it was done because of the time crunch and they planned on releasing a real ending, which once again goes against most of the information we've gotten post release.

I don't fully believe in IT but it sure beats the crap ending we did get.  And if this was Bioware's plan all along, that would have been IMO quite risky but smart at the same time. 

IT is a way out for Bioware, its up to them to take it or not.  And by the looks of it they aren't.  so we are left with an ending that makes no sense.

Again I don't think IT is the true ending they planned but it is a better option than what we got.  IT leaves it open for an all out epic conclusion to sheppard's story that we deserve.

[Stalker]

Makrys wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I'm confused do people who believe in IT believe future ending DLC was the plan and/or believe in it because they think Bioware just couldn't write something as bad as what we got (because once again most information we have shoots the last idea down). Or do they believe it because it's better than what we got and they'll take anything? Because there seems to be conflicting opinions in here on that.

Like do you guys think Bioware intended IT or do you just want other fans to believe IT cause you think it makes sense? I'm so confused by the entire IT fandom.

I'd also disagree that IT was brilliant writing UNLESS it was done because of the time crunch and they planned on releasing a real ending, which once again goes against most of the information we've gotten post release.

I believe it was intended, yes. I think everything post launch has been a deflection of their intentions. They don't want to give away what they are building as the best ending in a modern sci fi thriller (i think it could be). So any questions about the IT are calmly brushed aside, instead of outright denied. They even go as far so to 'hint' in the opposite direction of IT. I think this is all to build speculation, to build suspense, so that when the EC finally is revealed and IT is true (we'll see), then the wow and shock factor would be there. 

I disagree. The drastic price-drops and the (what they call) apology letter speak against it. I acutally think everything they have done so far hints against it. They just won't ever agree that they made mistakes, as much as they will never crush the biggest hope for a lot of fans.

I am just holding onto my last straw with my remaining faith in BioWare, that they simply can't write that bad. The EC would make absoutely no sense without IT. "Clarification" would be the last thing I need or want now and I think a majority can agree with that.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 26 avril 2012 - 05:58 .

[Abreu Road]

IT, like it or not, could give us the best endgame ever.

Bioware unfortunately doesn't see this. They only see art where people see a piece of ****.

[Raiil]

Makrys wrote...


You have simply GOT to be kidding me. Was your head screwed on when you saw the ending? This is laughable. I guess if you enjoy plotholes, lying star brats, inconsistencies in story telling, and blue red green decision making, then yeah you could enjoy it. It's like building a lego house. Blue, green, or red lego? Hmmm, Imma go with red because its my favorite color. Either way I still build a house in the end, they would just be different colors. La la la la la, doo dee doo, ooh colored play doh!! 

You know, I see posts like these, and then I see ITers wondering why some people get so annoyed when IT pops up in a thread. There's a connection.

We've already been told that the writers dropped the ball writing some parts of the game (see: the uproar with Thanemancers when his death is basically ignored) and that they would have liked to put Indoctrination as a mechanic in game, but they couldn't implement it so they had to toss it. Add in the fact that selling an unfinished game that requires DLC to finish it is a horrible business plan campaign side...


IT is a theory and not a bad one as far as theories go, but it's not ironclad, it's not (at the moment) canon, and shoving it in people's faces and dismissing it when they don't like it only hurts your cause. Just saying.

[ahandsomeshark]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Makrys wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I'm confused do people who believe in IT believe future ending DLC was the plan and/or believe in it because they think Bioware just couldn't write something as bad as what we got (because once again most information we have shoots the last idea down). Or do they believe it because it's better than what we got and they'll take anything? Because there seems to be conflicting opinions in here on that.

Like do you guys think Bioware intended IT or do you just want other fans to believe IT cause you think it makes sense? I'm so confused by the entire IT fandom.

I'd also disagree that IT was brilliant writing UNLESS it was done because of the time crunch and they planned on releasing a real ending, which once again goes against most of the information we've gotten post release.

I believe it was intended, yes. I think everything post launch has been a deflection of their intentions. They don't want to give away what they are building as the best ending in a modern sci fi thriller (i think it could be). So any questions about the IT are calmly brushed aside, instead of outright denied. They even go as far so to 'hint' in the opposite direction of IT. I think this is all to build speculation, to build suspense, so that when the EC finally is revealed and IT is true (we'll see), then the wow and shock factor would be there. 

I disagree. The drastic price-drops and the (what they call) apology letter speak against it. I acutally think everything they have done so far hints against it. They just won't ever agree that they made mistakes, as much as they will never crush the biggest hope for most fans (IT).

I am just holding my last straw with my remaining faith in BioWare, that they simply can't write that bad. The EC would make absoutely no sense without IT.

this. Especially when you consider bioware is not a seperate entity it's part of EA which is a publicly traded company, it would make zero sense for them to continue deflecting if this was their real purpose. In fact it would be a fireable (and possibly actionable) offense because at this point there's no way they could argue that it was in the best interest of their share holders.

Basically I don't think people who believe in IT are really considering the realites of business. For them to deflect/deny IT just for the sake of the story despite the current state of their stock and sales numbers is virtually impossible.

[Makrys]

IamBlue wrote...

Makrys wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I'm confused do people who believe in IT believe future ending DLC was the plan and/or believe in it because they think Bioware just couldn't write something as bad as what we got (because once again most information we have shoots the last idea down). Or do they believe it because it's better than what we got and they'll take anything? Because there seems to be conflicting opinions in here on that.

Like do you guys think Bioware intended IT or do you just want other fans to believe IT cause you think it makes sense? I'm so confused by the entire IT fandom.

I'd also disagree that IT was brilliant writing UNLESS it was done because of the time crunch and they planned on releasing a real ending, which once again goes against most of the information we've gotten post release.

I believe it was intended, yes. I think everything post launch has been a deflection of their intentions. They don't want to give away what they are building as the best ending in a modern sci fi thriller (i think it could be). So any questions about the IT are calmly brushed aside, instead of outright denied. They even go as far so to 'hint' in the opposite direction of IT. I think this is all to build speculation, to build suspense, so that when the EC finally is revealed and IT is true (we'll see), then the wow and shock factor would be there. 

I really hope you are right!

As do I, my friend. However, Bioware is doing a masterful job of hiding their intentions. But several things they have said post release seem to imply that something BIG is coming. You should watch this: 

Its an argument for IT, but if you don't want to watch it all, just skip to 18:20 and see how Bioware has responded to some fans about the ending. Their responses are very... interesting.

Modifié par Makrys, 26 avril 2012 - 06:00 .

[theoldmanfromscene24]

Maybe I missed something....did BW at some point deny IT? OP talks about it as such and I've seen a couple other threads like that.

Sorry to derail your argument.

[Makrys]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Makrys wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I'm confused do people who believe in IT believe future ending DLC was the plan and/or believe in it because they think Bioware just couldn't write something as bad as what we got (because once again most information we have shoots the last idea down). Or do they believe it because it's better than what we got and they'll take anything? Because there seems to be conflicting opinions in here on that.

Like do you guys think Bioware intended IT or do you just want other fans to believe IT cause you think it makes sense? I'm so confused by the entire IT fandom.

I'd also disagree that IT was brilliant writing UNLESS it was done because of the time crunch and they planned on releasing a real ending, which once again goes against most of the information we've gotten post release.

I believe it was intended, yes. I think everything post launch has been a deflection of their intentions. They don't want to give away what they are building as the best ending in a modern sci fi thriller (i think it could be). So any questions about the IT are calmly brushed aside, instead of outright denied. They even go as far so to 'hint' in the opposite direction of IT. I think this is all to build speculation, to build suspense, so that when the EC finally is revealed and IT is true (we'll see), then the wow and shock factor would be there. 

I disagree. The drastic price-drops and the (what they call) apology letter speak against it. I acutally think everything they have done so far hints against it. They just won't ever agree that they made mistakes, as much as they will never crush the biggest hope for a lot of fans.

I am just holding onto my last straw with my remaining faith in BioWare, that they simply can't write that bad. The EC would make absoutely no sense without IT. "Clarification" would be the last thing I need or want now and I think a majority can agree with that.

If they want any sort of 'shock' factor with the EC, they would not 'hint' for the IT. The goal would be to hint against it, to make people like you, and many others lose hope in it. I understand your position, but I'm simply saying I think that is their main goal. To lead people away from IT, so as to provide a bigger WOW when it actually is revealed. They've already leaked their script before (which actually had evidence of some sort of indoctrination plot line), I doubt they want togive anyone ANY hints with what they are doing now.

Modifié par Makrys, 26 avril 2012 - 06:03 .

[Makrys]

theoldmanfromscene24 wrote...

Maybe I missed something....did BW at some point deny IT? OP talks about it as such and I've seen a couple other threads like that.

Sorry to derail your argument.

No they have not denied it. They just 'hint' against it. Which in my mind speaks stronger for IT than it does against it. If they were really trying to keep something a secret why would they hint that it be true? No, they would deflect it at every chance they get, however still not actually deny it. This is common.

[ahandsomeshark]

Basically IT is a cool theory but if there had been able truth in the idea that it was Bioware's intention there's no reason they would continue deflecting this long. What do IT believers think they are gaining by deflecting at this point? How would continuing to deflect through June or July gain them anything over admitting it now?