327 réponses à ce sujet

[MintyCool]

Artistic integrity.

The Crucible narrative will forever be cemented into the Mass Effect lore, embrace it.

Checkmate.

Modifié par MintyCool, 26 avril 2012 - 06:08 .

[Stalker]

@Makrys
Look at it from the company's side: They loose bare millions of dollars in the long run.
A 'wow-effect' for a free DLC? What would the reason for that be? Judging the game itself  (excluding the ending), I don't think BioWare really cares that much about fan-reaction. The game is already nothing extraordinary great.

I'll let you hold onto your believes if you really want to, but don't get your heart crushed if the EC just expands the current endings.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 26 avril 2012 - 06:10 .

[ahandsomeshark]

In fact I think if they were actually deflecting just for the sake of a WOW factor at this point their share holders would have a legitimate Wrongful Act (not sure if that's the right term I'd have to look up some of the law more in-depth) suit against the board/CEO/whoever.

[ahandsomeshark]

Mr Massakka wrote...


Look at it from the company's side: They loose bare millions of dollars in the long run.
A 'wow-effect' for a free DLC? What would the reason for that be? Judging the game itself  (excluding the ending), I don't think BioWare really cares that much about fan-reaction. The game is already nothing extraordinary great.

You can hold onto your believes, I am just trying to show you some facts.

And EA definitely doesn't care that much about fan reaction.

Which is another thing I think a lot of IT believers are forgetting/ignoring. Bioware isn't a seperate entity, they are a part of EA. And what about EA would make anyone think they care about WOW factor?

[ahandsomeshark]

Makrys wrote...

IamBlue wrote...

Makrys wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I'm confused do people who believe in IT believe future ending DLC was the plan and/or believe in it because they think Bioware just couldn't write something as bad as what we got (because once again most information we have shoots the last idea down). Or do they believe it because it's better than what we got and they'll take anything? Because there seems to be conflicting opinions in here on that.

Like do you guys think Bioware intended IT or do you just want other fans to believe IT cause you think it makes sense? I'm so confused by the entire IT fandom.

I'd also disagree that IT was brilliant writing UNLESS it was done because of the time crunch and they planned on releasing a real ending, which once again goes against most of the information we've gotten post release.

I believe it was intended, yes. I think everything post launch has been a deflection of their intentions. They don't want to give away what they are building as the best ending in a modern sci fi thriller (i think it could be). So any questions about the IT are calmly brushed aside, instead of outright denied. They even go as far so to 'hint' in the opposite direction of IT. I think this is all to build speculation, to build suspense, so that when the EC finally is revealed and IT is true (we'll see), then the wow and shock factor would be there. 

I really hope you are right!

As do I, my friend. However, Bioware is doing a masterful job of hiding their intentions. But several things they have said post release seem to imply that something BIG is coming. You should watch this: 

Its an argument for IT, but if you don't want to watch it all, just skip to 18:20 and see how Bioware has responded to some fans about the ending. Their responses are very... interesting.

most of their something big quotes were in relation to PAX, which turned out to be the multiplayer DLC. 

[pharsti]

Yeah, well, id rather fanfiction stayed just that.... "Fan Fiction" instead of it going into my ME making it "real".

Also, when i put both the space magic and the IT side by side the space magic suddenly seems awesome

You forget that despite the majority despising the ending, not all of us are in agreement exactly what to do about it OP, for example, some would be satisfied with simple closure (based on choices obviously) and watching them plug some plotholes (i for one would love to see how they intend to make sense of the Normandy scene, that will be a feat XD), while some, like you, would rather use something that was made up by fans in order to retcon the whole ending, while some others would be happy with a happy end x_x
One common grievance, not one common goal on how to deal with it XD

[daecath]

$$$$$

It's a lot faster and cheaper to produce some cutscenes, maybe a few lines of dialog that allows for conversation options, but not much more.

IT would require them to start from a point after you wake up for real, and then write an entirely different story. Much harder and longer to write and to program. It's too much time, effort, and money to spend on something that has no value to EA other than restoring some customer loyalty. Which is why the dlc shouldn't be free. I'm willing to pay if it means that we get a DLC fix for the ending that is a real fix.

[LelianaHawke]

pharsti wrote...

Yeah, well, id rather fanfiction stayed just that.... "Fan Fiction" instead of it going into my ME making it "real".

Also, when i put both the space magic and the IT side by side the space magic suddenly seems awesome

You forget that despite the majority despising the ending, not all of us are in agreement exactly what to do about it OP, for example, some would be satisfied with simple closure (based on choices obviously) and watching them plug some plotholes (i for one would love to see how they intend to make sense of the Normandy scene, that will be a feat XD), while some, like you, would rather use something that was made up by fans in order to retcon the whole ending, while some others would be happy with a happy end x_x
One common grievance, not one common goal on how to deal with it XD

All I really want is for my Shepard to care about Kelly in the last London scene, not to spend ages talking to random squad members and Liara.

The IT completely fails to solve my problem. It's a non-solution to the wrong problem.

And by introducing more random crap it probably just makes things worse.

Modifié par LelianaHawke, 26 avril 2012 - 06:16 .

[Makrys]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Makrys wrote...

IamBlue wrote...

Makrys wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I'm confused do people who believe in IT believe future ending DLC was the plan and/or believe in it because they think Bioware just couldn't write something as bad as what we got (because once again most information we have shoots the last idea down). Or do they believe it because it's better than what we got and they'll take anything? Because there seems to be conflicting opinions in here on that.

Like do you guys think Bioware intended IT or do you just want other fans to believe IT cause you think it makes sense? I'm so confused by the entire IT fandom.

I'd also disagree that IT was brilliant writing UNLESS it was done because of the time crunch and they planned on releasing a real ending, which once again goes against most of the information we've gotten post release.

I believe it was intended, yes. I think everything post launch has been a deflection of their intentions. They don't want to give away what they are building as the best ending in a modern sci fi thriller (i think it could be). So any questions about the IT are calmly brushed aside, instead of outright denied. They even go as far so to 'hint' in the opposite direction of IT. I think this is all to build speculation, to build suspense, so that when the EC finally is revealed and IT is true (we'll see), then the wow and shock factor would be there. 

I really hope you are right!

As do I, my friend. However, Bioware is doing a masterful job of hiding their intentions. But several things they have said post release seem to imply that something BIG is coming. You should watch this: 

Its an argument for IT, but if you don't want to watch it all, just skip to 18:20 and see how Bioware has responded to some fans about the ending. Their responses are very... interesting.

most of their something big quotes were in relation to PAX, which turned out to be the multiplayer DLC. 

What? No it was not. You obviously didn't see the video. Their responses were direct responses about the ending. And saying "Hang in there", or "Augh. want. to. discuss!" in response to fan outcry about the ending just 7 days after it was released, implies something was planned before hand.

[IamBlue]

Makrys wrote...

IamBlue wrote...

Makrys wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I'm confused do people who believe in IT believe future ending DLC was the plan and/or believe in it because they think Bioware just couldn't write something as bad as what we got (because once again most information we have shoots the last idea down). Or do they believe it because it's better than what we got and they'll take anything? Because there seems to be conflicting opinions in here on that.

Like do you guys think Bioware intended IT or do you just want other fans to believe IT cause you think it makes sense? I'm so confused by the entire IT fandom.

I'd also disagree that IT was brilliant writing UNLESS it was done because of the time crunch and they planned on releasing a real ending, which once again goes against most of the information we've gotten post release.

I believe it was intended, yes. I think everything post launch has been a deflection of their intentions. They don't want to give away what they are building as the best ending in a modern sci fi thriller (i think it could be). So any questions about the IT are calmly brushed aside, instead of outright denied. They even go as far so to 'hint' in the opposite direction of IT. I think this is all to build speculation, to build suspense, so that when the EC finally is revealed and IT is true (we'll see), then the wow and shock factor would be there. 

I really hope you are right!

As do I, my friend. However, Bioware is doing a masterful job of hiding their intentions. But several things they have said post release seem to imply that something BIG is coming. You should watch this: 

Its an argument for IT, but if you don't want to watch it all, just skip to 18:20 and see how Bioware has responded to some fans about the ending. Their responses are very... interesting.

I've seen it!
What really Intrigues me are those comments about keeping our saves. It does feel like there is something interesting on the way. Let's hope it is something like IT.

[ahandsomeshark]

Makrys wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Makrys wrote...

IamBlue wrote...

Makrys wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I'm confused do people who believe in IT believe future ending DLC was the plan and/or believe in it because they think Bioware just couldn't write something as bad as what we got (because once again most information we have shoots the last idea down). Or do they believe it because it's better than what we got and they'll take anything? Because there seems to be conflicting opinions in here on that.

Like do you guys think Bioware intended IT or do you just want other fans to believe IT cause you think it makes sense? I'm so confused by the entire IT fandom.

I'd also disagree that IT was brilliant writing UNLESS it was done because of the time crunch and they planned on releasing a real ending, which once again goes against most of the information we've gotten post release.

I believe it was intended, yes. I think everything post launch has been a deflection of their intentions. They don't want to give away what they are building as the best ending in a modern sci fi thriller (i think it could be). So any questions about the IT are calmly brushed aside, instead of outright denied. They even go as far so to 'hint' in the opposite direction of IT. I think this is all to build speculation, to build suspense, so that when the EC finally is revealed and IT is true (we'll see), then the wow and shock factor would be there. 

I really hope you are right!

As do I, my friend. However, Bioware is doing a masterful job of hiding their intentions. But several things they have said post release seem to imply that something BIG is coming. You should watch this: 

Its an argument for IT, but if you don't want to watch it all, just skip to 18:20 and see how Bioware has responded to some fans about the ending. Their responses are very... interesting.

most of their something big quotes were in relation to PAX, which turned out to be the multiplayer DLC. 

What? No it was not. You obviously didn't see the video. Their responses were direct responses about the ending. And saying "Hang in there", or "Augh. want. to. discuss!" in response to fan outcry about the ending just 7 days after it was released, implies something was planned before hand.

Yeah I saw the video after it responded, I thought the comment was in reference to statements by Hudson and Co. The comments the videos refering to are comments from the twitter feed and Merizen (sp) and it's already been shown that they don't really have any inside knowledge and were mostly just deflecting to keep the negative backlash down (Merizen also said that the Normandy crash landed on Earth remember? So I think it's safe to say she doesn't have much knowledge/involvement with the ending)

[blooregard]

Abreu Road wrote...

IT, like it or not, could give us the best endgame ever.

Bioware unfortunately doesn't see this. They only see art where people see a piece of ****.

Either they don't see it or they aren't telling.


Contrary to seemingly popular belief they have said a whole lot of nothing when talking about the IT. The tweets bring hope to those wishing for it to be true then crush it into the dirt. They are asked straight questions about it and jump around it with PR speak. Anything bioware says about the endings, the extended cut, or the IT should be taken with a grain of salt because they won't tell us anything solid until a few weeks before EC.

"Our judgment must be based on facts and evidence. not wild imaginings and reckess speculation"
~Turian Counciler

[Nauks]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Basically IT is a cool theory but if there had been able truth in the idea that it was Bioware's intention there's no reason they would continue deflecting this long. What do IT believers think they are gaining by deflecting at this point? How would continuing to deflect through June or July gain them anything over admitting it now?

Good question.
I guess...I dunno, salvaging whatever little scrap of surprise they can muster at the final reveal?
Whatever they're planning, in the meantime what we're left with is cruel and unusual frustration.

[stysiaq]

I completely understand why BioWare won't use a fanmade idea to rewrite the ending.

What I do not understand, is their lack of courage to dismiss that theory.

[crimzontearz]

op that would imply EA actually knowing anything about the game aside quarterly figures

[luzburg]

artistic integrity is just plain aroganse. and i agree the indoc theory was a free pass to stop the rage with a propper ending

but as i see it adding to the ending by using the indoctheory still "protects" artistic integrity cause they didnt change the current game at all just adding to it

[theoldmanfromscene24]

stysiaq wrote...

I completely understand why BioWare won't use a fanmade idea to rewrite the ending.

What I do not understand, is their lack of courage to dismiss that theory.

Answer: LOTS OF SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE

[Lyrebon]

MJF JD wrote...

artistic integrity

This.

Of all the games EA has developed internally there's probably a small fraction of those with a decent, strong plot. Mirror's Edge could have been great but it lacked any story-telling element, just get from point A to B any way you could (except there were very limited ways of doing that).

I've always thought EA pushed their agenda on lesser companies to loosen the plot and focus on the gameplay. But with the deadlines EA set there's not enough time to flesh both elements out as is needed. ME3 needed another 6 months to get the plot right, but I have it in me to say EA hasn't a clue what a decent story is.

If EA ever produced a story on the level of a Neil Gaiman novel I would eat my dog's collar. Frankly, I don't want to eat that filthy thing and am quite confident I'll never have to.

[Stalker]

Arcian wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Okay, so Bioware are now a subsidiary of EA (correct me if I am wrong).

The suits have many rights, including veto power, and the ability to shape the direction of a game.

Why haven't they just made an executive order to make the ending indoc theory as part of the clarification DLC? It. is. a. free. pass.

All signs point to the ending NOT being indoc theory, but being REAL (incl. starkld and coward normandy).

I'm a pragmatist, and I see nothing concievably bad occuring as a result of indoc theory being taken up. The other direction, however, reveals a much more bleak outlook.

Thoughts?

The IT is retarded and creates more problems than it solves by raping the everliving christ out of indoctrination lore and removing the little element of choice we actually have left in the RGB endings.

What? After IT, The game would continue after you wake up on Earth and you would bring your war assets to a final battle which can now be freely written. 

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 26 avril 2012 - 06:30 .

[MisterJB]

Mr Massakka wrote...
 What? After IT, The game would continue after you wake up on Earth and you would bring your war assets to a final battle which can now be freely written.

A final battle where the only possible outcome would be the destruction of the Reapers?
No, thank you very much.

[DGMockingJay]

**** Indoc Theory. Why?? Becuase Artistic Integrity, thats why.

On a serious note. Indoc theory does sound like an easy way out.

[Stalker]

MisterJB wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...
 What? After IT, The game would continue after you wake up on Earth and you would bring your war assets to a final battle which can now be freely written.

A final battle where the only possible outcome would be the destruction of the Reapers?
No, thank you very much.

As I said, freely written...
My take on it: Your war assets have to defend against the Reaper counter-attack and this would impact a lot of things happening on your way to/through the Citadel. Once you are next to activating it, there could be Harbinger which reveals the dark energy plot and you get to the decision which was orginally intended: Merge humans to stop dark energy once and for all, or try to destroy Reapers with your war assets and try to fix the dark energy problem on your own... 

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 26 avril 2012 - 06:36 .

[Cadence of the Planes]

Damn, a thread that bashes EA, the ending, "artisitic integrity!"

How unique!

[stysiaq]

theoldmanfromscene24 wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

I completely understand why BioWare won't use a fanmade idea to rewrite the ending.

What I do not understand, is their lack of courage to dismiss that theory.

Answer: LOTS OF SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE

that is not the case. Every person who does a little thinking clearly sees that indoctrination was never intended to be a part of the ending. Maybe a 'little' part with TIM showing up out of nowhere and able to control f******g everything by fist-clutching. But the 'its all a dream' scenario is not happening. We get what we see.

The thing is the final moments of ME3 are so dumb, unrealistic and rushed, that 'its all a dream' scenario FITS. Combining ME with 'dream twist' produced Indoctrination Theory, even if Indoctrination has never been stated to produce tricky dellusions and inner fights with it within an individual.

I think that the devs wanted us to speculate 'which ending is better', or 'what planet they crashed on'. Not 'was the ending a hallucination'. Because it wasnt.

The popularity of the concept (see Angry Joes IT video view count or the Avac-something one) makes Bioware realise, that stating IT is wrong would make them loose many fans. So they said they won't comment on that and leave the ending 'open to interpretation'. This is even more annoying for me. Not only giving us the current ending, but also being a chicken about defending its credibility.