209 réponses à ce sujet

[Ericus]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Mystiq6 wrote...

Fan:
Did I miss something then? I don't recall organic vs synthetic being all that big of a theme.

Gamble:
geth vs organics. reapers vs organics.

ARGH! This makes me rage. The Geth don't really care about organics, they want to "self-determinate" and they like the idea of all life "self-determinating". They only attack in self defense! Was Gamble asleep when they went over the ENTIRE GETH STORY ARC in ME2? In ME1 you could arguer this, but ME2 kicks it firmly in the head and kills the idea that the geth are basically terminators on the fringe of the galaxy just waiting for the right time to invade and kill all organics while twirling thier fake evil mustaches. At best, this idea is a side-theme.

Next point: Reapers versus organics. This is bunk according to ME1. I literally just got done replaying the end of Virmire and Saren basically says that the geth would've also been destoryed, but they were submitting to the will of Soverign to prove themselves good tools and thus be saved from destruction. If they weren't, it's implied they would be on the chopping block the same as the Humans, Asari, Quarians, etc etc.

The Reapers aren't just focusing on organic life, they focus on ALL highly advanced civs (as per ME1). Get your crap together Gamble and understand what came before! You can't just hijack the motivation of a timeless Space horror just because you've watched the matrix and decided to mix it with DX:HR!

Add to this that the Reapers themselves are already a 'synthesized' lifeform.  In ME2 we learn that they are created using the genetic material (and memories?) of the organic species harvested in each cycle.  So if the Reapers aren't synthetic, how can the main story arc possibly be organic vs. synthetic???

[Skull Bearer]

Out of pure curiosity; how does the synthesis choice even end the war? Supposing the Reapers do pull back and stop fighting... do you think the fleet will? The reapers massacred billions of living beings in this cycle alone, how likely is it anyone will just leave them alone?

Modifié par Skull Bearer, 26 avril 2012 - 01:18 .

[davishepard]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

How could anyone miss that organic versus synthetic was a major theme of ME. I think the number one theme for the game is probably determined by the users, but synthetic vs organic is a MAJOR theme of the series, it is the conflict that is central to the entire story.

People seems to like to think that they know better than the game creators, or someone that sees this.

Of course organic versus synthetic was a major theme, just look at the Reapers. But no, people want a reason to complain, even if they have to distort things to have it.

[Fallen94]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

How could anyone miss that organic versus synthetic was a major theme of ME. I think the number one theme for the game is probably determined by the users, but synthetic vs organic is a MAJOR theme of the series, it is the conflict that is central to the entire story.

Yes even if it was meant to be a major theme it gets wrapped up on the Rannoch mission. Where you either kill off the Geth or Quarians, or you make peace between them. Either way bringing that point back up in the end especially if you made peace with the Geth seems redundent and unecessary.

[Ericus]

davishepard wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

How could anyone miss that organic versus synthetic was a major theme of ME. I think the number one theme for the game is probably determined by the users, but synthetic vs organic is a MAJOR theme of the series, it is the conflict that is central to the entire story.

People seems to like to think that they know better than the game creators, or someone that sees this.

Of course organic versus synthetic was a major theme, just look at the Reapers. But no, people want a reason to complain, even if they have to distort things to have it.

Bioware's own story contradicts the idea that organic vs. synthetic is the major theme (EDI allies with the Normandy crew, the Geth can achieve peace with the Quarians).  So it's not the fans that disagree with the game creators, it's the game creators that disagree with themselves.  Don't blame us for simply pointing it out.

[Gill Kaiser]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

How could anyone miss that organic versus synthetic was a major theme of ME. I think the number one theme for the game is probably determined by the users, but synthetic vs organic is a MAJOR theme of the series, it is the conflict that is central to the entire story.

No, organics vs the REAPERS was the central conflict. Just because our enemy is synthetic doesn't make the conflict "organics vs synthetics". That's a racist interpretation that implies you believe that that one group represents their entire form of life. Throughout the series we are shown evidence that synthetic species are as varied in their philosophies as organics. The Geth wish to reach peaceful self-actualisation in seclusion. EDI wishes to learn from and integrate with organics. It's only the Reapers that are truly malevolent.

[davishepard]

Ericus wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Mystiq6 wrote...

Fan:
Did I miss something then? I don't recall organic vs synthetic being all that big of a theme.

Gamble:
geth vs organics. reapers vs organics.

ARGH! This makes me rage. The Geth don't really care about organics, they want to "self-determinate" and they like the idea of all life "self-determinating". They only attack in self defense! Was Gamble asleep when they went over the ENTIRE GETH STORY ARC in ME2? In ME1 you could arguer this, but ME2 kicks it firmly in the head and kills the idea that the geth are basically terminators on the fringe of the galaxy just waiting for the right time to invade and kill all organics while twirling thier fake evil mustaches. At best, this idea is a side-theme.

Next point: Reapers versus organics. This is bunk according to ME1. I literally just got done replaying the end of Virmire and Saren basically says that the geth would've also been destoryed, but they were submitting to the will of Soverign to prove themselves good tools and thus be saved from destruction. If they weren't, it's implied they would be on the chopping block the same as the Humans, Asari, Quarians, etc etc.

The Reapers aren't just focusing on organic life, they focus on ALL highly advanced civs (as per ME1). Get your crap together Gamble and understand what came before! You can't just hijack the motivation of a timeless Space horror just because you've watched the matrix and decided to mix it with DX:HR!

Add to this that the Reapers themselves are already a 'synthesized' lifeform.  In ME2 we learn that they are created using the genetic material (and memories?) of the organic species harvested in each cycle.  So if the Reapers aren't synthetic, how can the main story arc possibly be organic vs. synthetic???

If a machine use human blood as fuel, it's still a machine. It's not that hard to understand that Reapers are machines/synthetics.

And there was that time when the Geth attacked that group lead by Tali in Haestrom, just because they were there. There goes the Geth only attack in self defense by the window?

[davishepard]

Ericus wrote...

Bioware's own story contradicts the idea that organic vs. synthetic is the major theme (EDI allies with the Normandy crew, the Geth can achieve peace with the Quarians).  So it's not the fans that disagree with the game creators, it's the game creators that disagree with themselves.  Don't blame us for simply pointing it out.

They contradict nothing. It's not organics against all synthetics. And yes, you can reach peace between Geth and Quarian in ME3, but this doesn't invalidate the point, since the Reapers are still around. Maybe things can change in ME4, but this trilogy was always about organics vs. synthetics. All the other things aren't major themes, no matter how much people liked them. 

Modifié par davishepard, 26 avril 2012 - 01:25 .

[Shaigunjoe]

EnvyTB075 wrote...
Which is only brought to the fore as central to Shepards motivations, NOT just Tali/Quarians motivations, at the end of Mass Effect 3.

It is a theme, no one is denying that its there, but compared to all the other themes of Mass Effect that has been carried over through 3 seperate games, Organics vs Synthetics has been relegated as a Quarian/Geth problem and ONLY a Quarian/Geth problem.

Can't agree with this.  The reapers are a clear manifestation of organic life being dominated by synthetics.  Cold, calculating, no emotion.  You see that in Saren and his pals in the first game, the collectors in the 2nd and the reapers themselves in number 3.

The geth/quarian conflict poses different questions.  It is more about a creator/create relationship, which is a subdivision of organics vs synthetics.

[Iakus]

Ericus wrote...

davishepard wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

How could anyone miss that organic versus synthetic was a major theme of ME. I think the number one theme for the game is probably determined by the users, but synthetic vs organic is a MAJOR theme of the series, it is the conflict that is central to the entire story.

People seems to like to think that they know better than the game creators, or someone that sees this.

Of course organic versus synthetic was a major theme, just look at the Reapers. But no, people want a reason to complain, even if they have to distort things to have it.

Bioware's own story contradicts the idea that organic vs. synthetic is the major theme (EDI allies with the Normandy crew, the Geth can achieve peace with the Quarians).  So it's not the fans that disagree with the game creators, it's the game creators that disagree with themselves.  Don't blame us for simply pointing it out.

Not to mention the two biggest crises of this cycle, the Rachni Wars and the Krogan Rebellions, were against entirely organic opponents...

[Wulfram]

Skull Bearer wrote...

Out of pure curiosity; how does the synthesis choice even end the war? Supposing the Reapers do pull back and stop fighting... do you think the fleet will? The reapers massacred billions of living beings in this cycle alone, how likely is it anyone will just leave them alone?

Well, the Reapers are faster than anyone else, can operate independently of the relay network, and don't have any worlds to be attacked.  If they don't want to fight, there won't be a fight.

[davishepard]

Lyme Eilserv wrote...

Either Gamble has no idea of what he's talking about, or he does know and is acting the corporate stooge. The "evidence" he refers to is so thin and takes a backseat to unity/diversity/companionship in every f**king mission.

"but the idea is there is no concept of machine or organic anymore. There is only life."
WTF does this even mean??!

You know, I didn't used to be angry about this, just terribly, terribly disappointed. But hearing **** like this, not too sure I even want to give them the benefit of the doubt.

It means that machines and organic fused, and there's only the "organic/machine" life form in the Systesis ending.

I have the opinion that you and many other here have no idead what you are talking about, and are just raging either because you rage about anything ME3 related or just hated the endings and so almost everyone/everyone from the team that made the game.

[Benny8484]

I cannot even believe this came from someone's mouth, let alone someone who helping determine the outcome of the EC.

Either hes wrong or about 1 million people have been playing a different game.

[davishepard]

iakus wrote...

Not to mention the two biggest crises of this cycle, the Rachni Wars and the Krogan Rebellions, were against entirely organic opponents...

It seems that the Reapers made the Rachni start the war via some form of control, so in the end Machines vs. Organics there too.

[The Night Mammoth]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

How could anyone miss that organic versus synthetic was a major theme of ME. I think the number one theme for the game is probably determined by the users, but synthetic vs organic is a MAJOR theme of the series

I don't see anyone here saying it's not, so stop talking out your ass.

it is the conflict that is central to the entire story.

In simple terms, it's everyone against the Reapers. There's no neat divide between synthetics and organics like some people seem to believe. 

If it were as you suggest, we wouldn't have the Geth or EDI helping Shepard.

[Gill Kaiser]

davishepard wrote...

iakus wrote...

Not to mention the two biggest crises of this cycle, the Rachni Wars and the Krogan Rebellions, were against entirely organic opponents...

It seems that the Reapers made the Rachni start the war via some form of control, so in the end Machines vs. Organics there too.

No, "Reapers vs organics" there too. You can't hinge a concept about an entire state of being on one species. Every one of your "synthetic vs organic" examples is directly caused by the Reapers.

[Shaigunjoe]

The Night Mammoth wrote...
I don't see anyone here saying it's not, so stop talking out your ass.

Here is the quote from the OP:

"I also never got the impression that organic vs synthetic was one of the major themes of Mass Effect"

He even bolded it, so unfortunatly I cannot take anything else you say seriously, since you do not know how to properly read sentences.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 26 avril 2012 - 01:39 .

[Iakus]

davishepard wrote...

iakus wrote...

Not to mention the two biggest crises of this cycle, the Rachni Wars and the Krogan Rebellions, were against entirely organic opponents...

It seems that the Reapers made the Rachni start the war via some form of control, so in the end Machines vs. Organics there too.

And here I thought the Reapers were the Solution, not the Problem 

[The Night Mammoth]

davishepard wrote...

Ericus wrote...

Bioware's own story contradicts the idea that organic vs. synthetic is the major theme (EDI allies with the Normandy crew, the Geth can achieve peace with the Quarians).  So it's not the fans that disagree with the game creators, it's the game creators that disagree with themselves.  Don't blame us for simply pointing it out.

They contradict nothing. It's not organics against all synthetics. And yes, you can reach peace between Geth and Quarian in ME3, but this doesn't invalidate the point, since the Reapers are still around. Maybe things can change in ME4, but this trilogy was always about organics vs. synthetics. All the other things aren't major themes, no matter how much people liked them. 

Explain then why it's the prevalent theme over all others. 

Don't ignore that the Reapers are hybrids, or that no synthetic has ever professed to despise organic life, or that all major conflicts between the two forms have life have been for completely different reasons, or that whever the theme is brought up it's always on a sub-plot that's entirely optional. 

Explain how it's more important thant unity. Both ME2 and ME3 are pretty much you uniting people because together we are stonger. ME1 had a healthy dose of it too. 

[DJBare]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

The Reapers aren't just focusing on organic life, they focus on ALL highly advanced civs (as per ME1). Get your crap together Gamble and understand what came before! You can't just hijack the motivation of a timeless Space horror just because you've watched the matrix and decided to mix it with DX:HR!

This is why until I'm told otherwise the Reapers motives are suspect to say the least, I don't believe they are protecting organic life from synthetics, I believe that are preventing organics from reaching a level where they become a threat to Reaper dominance of the galaxy.

[The Night Mammoth]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...
I don't see anyone here saying it's not, so stop talking out your ass.

Here is the quote from the OP:

"I also never got the impression that organic vs synthetic was one of the major themes of Mass Effect"

He even bolded it, so unfortunatly I cannot take anythign else you say seriously, since you do not know how to properly read sentences.

Now I feel embarassed.

The OP is wrong, in that regard. It has always been a major theme, but always beneath several others in terms of importance. 

[richard_rider]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

In simple terms, it's everyone against the Reapers. There's no neat divide between synthetics and organics like some people seem to believe. 

If it were as you suggest, we wouldn't have the Geth or EDI helping Shepard.

I always thought that was the central point of ME series, NOT GETTING DESTROYED BY REAPERS...anyway, the fact that they're synthetic (hybrid, w/e), and they're trying to save u from (maybe, possibly, it could happen) getting killed by sythetics by killing us, is just ridiculous. If I could I would slap Casper into the next cycle, I would.

[Oransel]

Main theme of the series is tolerance and willing to accept each other. Synthesis is absolutely contradictory to this.