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[JustifiablyDefenestrated]

I found that, out of all the DA characters,  Fenris made me reflect on my own philosophies more than any others.  At first I thought he was a paranoid hyporcrite--how could anyone be so vehemently oppose slavery and yet condemn mages to the circle?

But then I realized that he really does bring up a valid point. Mages have more power than other people.  Not just ordinary power, such as wealth, prestige, or strength; but the power to control other people. This, more than anything, violates a person's most fundamental right; the right to choose how to act.

And because he was a slave, Fenris is incredibly attune to this. He struggles throughout the game to create an identity independant of his history in Tevinter.

So, that's how I learned to stop worrying and embrace the conflict.

Thoughts? Which characters did you particularly like/dislike and did any manage to change your opinions?

Modifié par JustifiablyDefenestrated, 27 avril 2012 - 06:16 .

[Tommyspa]

Anders, oh how I would have loved you to let me in on your plans, openly. I would have held hands and skipped to the chantry.

Fenris, fall in line or die, I need your sword not your mouth. (Loved the character though, just went against my first set of DA RP views)

[Sacred_Fantasy]

JustifiablyDefenestrated wrote...
Thoughts? Which characters did you particularly like/dislike and did any manage to change your opinions?

In  DA 2? I dislike Hawke and the followers. I don't know them well enough.  I don't care for them to the point I rather travel alone like I did in TES. The companions presence merely a hindrance. Especially when the companions love to run straight into enemy crowds and force me to guard them instead of them watching my back.  All I know, I was restricted with scheduled interaction and the companions keep blabbering their personal belief for a decade I just wish I could tell them to shut up. Romance is totally out of question for me due to how ridiculous it seem with the amount of dialogue line relative to the years that pass by. It's not really an enjoyable experience for me in DA 2.  I hate it.

In DAO, I like Morrigan. I thought she was a total ice-queen who only thought for herself with her philosophy, Survival to the fittest. But she wasn't really as though as she thought she was. She still vulnerable when it comes to love. My Amber Cousland disliked her on my first playthrough. But my self-inserted character, Maverick Cousland chose to find out what made this woman so thick on my second playthrough. I spent hours trying to know her better, argued with her philosophy, watched her reaction with Alistair and tested her by kissing Bella in a Tavern. In the end, I finally realize, after she had gone, that this is the woman that I would like to chase no matter what and live with until the final day of my warden's life. 

Edit: Here's one of my most memorable scenes in DAO. Morrigan had just told me that love is for the weak. And here she was acting like she was jealous or something. LOL! Just look at Alistair's and Shale's face. It was priceless. I bet they didn't see that coming.



And here're my characters with Morrigan using Skyrim as background


(Left) My Avatar Maverick Cousland, (Middle) Amber Cousland and (Right ) Morrigan.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 27 avril 2012 - 03:53 .

[Bootbarrows]

Is that first shot of Morrigan? A mod? She looks so... un-Morrigan-like. Same goes for the second shot. Besides the hair I wouldn't have recognized her. Morrigan is a woods witch, dainty and clean just doesn't fly with her!

Modifié par Bootbarrows, 27 avril 2012 - 01:57 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Bootbarrows wrote...

Is that first shot of Morrigan? A mod? She looks so... un-Morrigan-like. Same goes for the second shot. Besides the hair I wouldn't have recognized her. Morrigan is a woods witch, dainty and clean just doesn't fly with her!

The mod was based on Morrigan's true counterpart, Victoria Johnson.


For the second pics, the base models were third party models which I morph myself. They don't belong to BioWare. The programme I used to render the models was third party programme . As much as I want to use Morrigan original meshes, I can't do that with third party programme. l don't have the license to use game model. It required special license.

And as for dainty and clean, I prefer aesthetics over lore character. Beside, I don't like the idea of having 'shared" Morrigan with every other DAO players. Therefore my Morrigan must look different. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 27 avril 2012 - 08:50 .

[Maria Caliban]

None of them/All of them.

[JustifiablyDefenestrated]

Maria Caliban wrote...

None of them/All of them.

Meaning that different aspects of each character reafirmed/challenged your beliefs? Makes sense, just like real life. Did any stand out?

[Firky]

I just remember thinking that watching Merrill was like someone holding up a mirror.

(That speech she gave about being excited about muggings in Kirkwall was practically the same conversation I had with my husband-to-be in New York one time. - It wasn't that I wasn't empathetic towards the victim, just that I was genuinely fascinated by seeing the event, concurrently.)

She's a really believeable character, in my mind. They way she kind of "grows" over the series, makes a kind of sense to me, too, as she gets used to the characters she's with.

People often refer to her as "innocent" though. I don't really get that vibe.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

JustifiablyDefenestrated wrote...

 Which characters did you particularly like/dislike and did any manage to change your opinions?

My personal opinions? No, none of them. Sebastian and the Arishok were the only ones who actually made me stop and think before giving an answer, but since this is a non-spoiler area I can't say how. Some of the things Cullen said impressed me too, but they didn't change the way I already thought. I was merely surprised at being confronted by a few good moral points.

[fchopin]

If we are talking DA2 then NONE.

[berelinde]

Isabela, actually. (Edit: I seem to have misunderstood the question, although to be fair, the OP seems to have answered the question the same way I did. A literal answer follows.)

Before DA2 came out, I was determined to hate her. I saw her as another Viconia with everybody going on and on about her exotic beauty or another Shandra Jerro, where every single character in the game would be in love with her and speak of her as if she were the bestest woman in the whole world... while pretty much ignoring the PC. The demo only served to enforce this idea. She was the only companion we got to meet, and when we did meet her, the PC was choreographed to leer at her with blatant desire in defiance of the player's will and possibly the protagonist's sexual orientation. I almost canceled my pre-order over it. I consoled myself with the knowledge that she was an optional character and that apart from enduring her introduction where she would knock someone unconscious with her boob, I would never have to see her again.

When I got the game, I fully intended to never recruit her, and I almost didn't, but the completionist in my wouldn't allow me to pass up on any recruitable, no matter how little I liked them. Once she was in the party, she started to grow on me. To my surprise, the other characters treated her like a joke, which greatly improved my opinion of her. Shandra Jerro did not need my character's affection. Everyone else in the game was happy to supply it. Isabela was another story. The general dismissive attitude almost everyone else in the game seemed to show toward her allowed me to laugh at her. She wasn't meant to be taken seriously, so I didn't. I laughed at her jokes and began to appreciate that there was more to her than a pair of helium-filled breasts.

Eventually, after a few playthroughs, I learned to genuinely like her. She became one of my favorite characters in the game.

I still think it was a mistake to present her in the demo the way she was. Had I gone with my gut at that point, I never would have bought the game. That's not really a sound strategy for releasing a demo, is it?

Edit: I would not say that any of the characters challenged my personal opinions or beliefs, but several of them reinforced them. Fenris reinforced my opinion that blind hatred is debilitating to the person who experiences it and inhibits personal growth. Varric reinforced my opinion that dwarves are awesome. Anders reinforced my opinion that if you take away someone's humanity, you have no right to complain if they behave in inhuman ways.

Modifié par berelinde, 27 avril 2012 - 11:32 .

[AkiKishi]

None of them.

If anything it was the Origins that did that, each Origin gave a very different view of the world.

[Tirigon]

None, because DA2 had a bad story and bad characters (except for Merril, but being a bloodmage myself she didnt really challenge my opinion any more than making me think the intelligence requirements for bloodmagic should be increased. She is so naive and stupid).

[Kail Ashton]

Tirigon wrote...

None, because DA2 had a bad story and bad characters (except for Merril, but being a bloodmage myself she didnt really challenge my opinion any more than making me think the intelligence requirements for bloodmagic should be increased. She is so naive and stupid).

Well i'd sa...whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??? you're a bloodmage?? wait, wait...ok i'm going to give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you're not being crazy and that you simply meant you're charecter; who isn't you; is a blood mage specielization thing-a-ma-jig, right???

As for DA charecters i learned ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! (anyone get that reffrance?) but it did help me punch up my banter and caused me to have a man crush on Steve Valentine

[Tirigon]

I was referring to the view and philosophy of a bloodmage, I sadly lack the powers what with magic not being real and all.

[Huntress]

DAO Morrigan I thought an apostate was going to turn into a demon at any time and someone like her even faster ... because lets be real a creature for a mother?!!.. what good can come from it?.. -wrong in all accounts.

DA2 Fenris, I understood this character fears all to well, is true that a mage can destroy a whole town in a blink of the eye and that would be a bless, is worst when someone has no magic at all but it has power to rule over others and this power is eating you, draining you and tormenting you for years.
Some one like Meredith and her lieutenants, they weren't just destroying, and torturing mages in kirkwall they jumped to the populace aswell in act3.

And thats is what happen when 1 organization has alot of POWER they start to believe that is their right to do what ever they want with others people lives and the right to rule them..

Modifié par Huntress, 27 avril 2012 - 02:43 .

[Pasquale1234]

JustifiablyDefenestrated wrote...
Thoughts? Which characters did you particularly like/dislike and did any manage to change your opinions?

I felt that I had a pretty good understanding of the issues surrounding mage circles and templars after playing DAO, and that DA2 repeatedly hit me over the head with extremes.  I really liked the mage-templar conflict, and circle mages vs apostates as an interesting part of the setting, some prickly sandpaper in the background, but am now completely bored with it.

Offhand, I can't say that any character in DA2 changed my opinions about anything, but it was nice to learn more about Qunari culture from the Arishok.

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
I dislike all characters excluding NPCs other than the companions.

That statement doesn't make much sense.  The only way I can interpret it is to say that you dislike Hawke and all of the followers.

The companions presence merely a hindrance. Especially when the companions love to run straight into enemy crowds and force me to guard them instead of them watching my back. 

The tactics interface allows you to change their combat behavior.

[5trangeCase]

Specific companions? I don't know. Sten and the Qunari made me assess the viability of structured communism again. Definitely playing DA2 made me change my opinions about mages and Templars Other than that? I suppose Leliana and Merrill and the relationships they had with my Warden and Hawke made me more closely examine the nature of people's "loving" relationships.

The games themselves? Most people would say that they had no effect on their personal opinions about things, but I'd say they'd almost unquestionably be wrong. Everyone's opinions are formations of the experiences, and playing the games will have altered their opinions in some way or another. Even the incredibly stubborn people will have had their opinions subtly altered without them noticing.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
I dislike all characters excluding NPCs other than the companions.

That statement doesn't make much sense.  The only way I can interpret it is to say that you dislike Hawke and all of the followers.

Thanks I change the wordings. I was thinking about Sister Petrice, Meredith and few other characters but decided to change my mind not to mentioned them while I was typing that.   

Pasquale1234 wrote...

The companions presence merely a hindrance. Especially when the companions love to run straight into enemy crowds and force me to guard them instead of them watching my back. 

The tactics interface allows you to change their combat behavior.

The hold command didn't work. The enemies just drop from behind and stabbed the companions. And the companions just run frantically  pass me and straight into the center of enemies respawn area My line of defense was totally ruined by it. The healer was too slow to response while Varric kept running in circle at the center of enemy respawn area, I was amused and annoyed at the same time.  It was chaotic it's impossible to use melee Hawke to protect them. I had to resort to full long range attackers to wipe all the enemies as quickly as possible from long distant.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 27 avril 2012 - 03:55 .

[Pasquale1234]

5trangeCase wrote...

The games themselves? Most people would say that they had no effect on their personal opinions about things, but I'd say they'd almost unquestionably be wrong. Everyone's opinions are formations of the experiences, and playing the games will have altered their opinions in some way or another. Even the incredibly stubborn people will have had their opinions subtly altered without them noticing.

I'd say that might have a lot to do with the age and overall life experience of the player.

Exposure to any story - whether it is a game, movie, novel, play, or friend sharing something that happened to them - will tend to have a much bigger impact on someone with less life experience than someone with a lot more.

[berelinde]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Exposure to any story - whether it is a game, movie, novel, play, or friend sharing something that happened to them - will tend to have a much bigger impact on someone with less life experience than someone with a lot more.

Keep in mind that some people (of any level of life experience) are a lot more open to new ideas than others.

When presented with a sign that says "Do not move furniture," one person will say "Okay" while another will say "That must mean that the furniture is movable." The second person will probably never stop learning new things and gaining new life experiences no matter how old they get. If nothing else, they may one day learn that pushing heavy furniture around is bad for the back.

[Pasquale1234]

berelinde wrote...

Keep in mind that some people (of any level of life experience) are a lot more open to new ideas than others.

When presented with a sign that says "Do not move furniture," one person will say "Okay" while another will say "That must mean that the furniture is movable." The second person will probably never stop learning new things and gaining new life experiences no matter how old they get. If nothing else, they may one day learn that pushing heavy furniture around is bad for the back.

Very true - there are some who never color outside the lines.  But my original point is also true.

A new experience will likely have a much greater impact on someone with fewer overall experiences.  A dipper in the bucket versus a drop in the bucket, so to speak.

Honestly - I am a very analytical type, which is probably why it takes me a lot longer to play through a game or read a novel than a lot of people.  I take my time, chew thoroughly, digest and process everything I see.  As a result, there weren't any new angles RE the mage-templar conflict exposed in DA2 that I hadn't already fully considered and analyzed when I played through DAO.  Plus - the pattern matches some other issues that I spent years (or decades) of my life deliberating, so... much of DA2 was just "meh" for me.

I do enjoy reading about how others view the games and characters, though.  That is one of the biggest reasons why I'm here.

[JustifiablyDefenestrated]

berelinde wrote...

Isabela, actually. (Edit: I seem to have misunderstood the question, although to be fair, the OP seems to have answered the question the same way I did. A literal answer follows.)

Before DA2 came out, I was determined to hate her. I saw her as another Viconia with everybody going on and on about her exotic beauty or another Shandra Jerro, where every single character in the game would be in love with her and speak of her as if she were the bestest woman in the whole world... while pretty much ignoring the PC. The demo only served to enforce this idea. She was the only companion we got to meet, and when we did meet her, the PC was choreographed to leer at her with blatant desire in defiance of the player's will and possibly the protagonist's sexual orientation. I almost canceled my pre-order over it. I consoled myself with the knowledge that she was an optional character and that apart from enduring her introduction where she would knock someone unconscious with her boob, I would never have to see her again.

When I got the game, I fully intended to never recruit her, and I almost didn't, but the completionist in my wouldn't allow me to pass up on any recruitable, no matter how little I liked them. Once she was in the party, she started to grow on me. To my surprise, the other characters treated her like a joke, which greatly improved my opinion of her. Shandra Jerro did not need my character's affection. Everyone else in the game was happy to supply it. Isabela was another story. The general dismissive attitude almost everyone else in the game seemed to show toward her allowed me to laugh at her. She wasn't meant to be taken seriously, so I didn't. I laughed at her jokes and began to appreciate that there was more to her than a pair of helium-filled breasts.

Eventually, after a few playthroughs, I learned to genuinely like her. She became one of my favorite characters in the game.

I still think it was a mistake to present her in the demo the way she was. Had I gone with my gut at that point, I never would have bought the game. That's not really a sound strategy for releasing a demo, is it?

Edit: I would not say that any of the characters challenged my personal opinions or beliefs, but several of them reinforced them. Fenris reinforced my opinion that blind hatred is debilitating to the person who experiences it and inhibits personal growth. Varric reinforced my opinion that dwarves are awesome. Anders reinforced my opinion that if you take away someone's humanity, you have no right to complain if they behave in inhuman ways.

You bring up a lot of very interesting points that I hadn't previously considered. 

First, with Isabela, I completely agree that the promo material misrepresented the depth of her character. I too was suprised that I ended up liking her. The humor that defined her character was off-set spectacularly by the seriousness of her actions (a strange juxtaposition that I don't see with any other characters except, perhaps Aveline--which seems to be the other way around). 

Also, I love your interpretation of Anders. "[He] reinforced my opinion that if you take away someone's humanity, you have no right to complain if they behave in inhuman ways." Reminds me of V for Vendetta, which is, in my humble opinion, one of the best movies ever. (Comic book was ok, but not as moving, imo).((Pun intended)).

Modifié par JustifiablyDefenestrated, 27 avril 2012 - 09:07 .

[Firky]

I thought Isabela was interesting enough in DA2, a bit like a confident girl I remember from school days, who didn't care what anyone thought, had her own moral compass, but was still smart/funny/caring etc, once you got past a shell of brashness. After reading the Silent Grove comic about Isabela, I can't say I understand her a lot better, precisely, but that I'd totally now defend her to the hilt. That's pretty interesting evolution for a character, in my mind.

As to Merrill, I just really don't understand people seeing her as "naive" or "stupid." I think she called herself stupid at one point, or maybe, in less overt ways, many times. But calling yourself stupid doesn't make it so. To me she seems quite over-obsessive about -spoiler- which is probably understandable, and unable to shake her culture shock in Kirkwall, for a long time. She also seems really nervous, questioning and unable to rise above that.

But, as someone above said, something that's cool about DA's characters is that people can understand them differently, based on experiences etc the player brings.

[berelinde]

Firky wrote...

As to Merrill, I just really don't understand people seeing her as "naive" or "stupid." I think she called herself stupid at one point, or maybe, in less overt ways, many times. But calling yourself stupid doesn't make it so.

Merrill calling herself stupid is like a 40-something saying they're old. Not true, exactly, but not entirely false, either. There's bound to be some who are brighter/younger and some who are stupider/older. Because she doesn't intend it as a statement of fact. When a person says something like that, they are doing it to pull the teeth of those who are thinking it. When somebody says something like that, the friendly (or patronizing) response is to disagree. The worst a person could politely do is remain silent. Sure, the PC could agree with her there, but it would be kinda rude.

Merrill is awkward. She is awkward among her clan, she is awkward among her companions, and she is awkward around Hawke until s/he lets her know that it's okay to be herself either by accepting her the way she is or by forcing her to stand up for her beliefs.

There is that whole blood magic thing and her superficial ambivalence toward demons, but when all is said and done, she isn't as dumb as she lets on. She knows that demons are not our friends. After all, the promise she makes rivalry Hawke swear makes it pretty clear that she does understand the risks. The problem arises because she has taught everyone in her clan not to expect too much from her... so they don't, with disastrous results.