8 réponses à ce sujet

[Plumwinebunny]

Could someone so kindly inform me (or point me in the direction of a thread with the numbers) what the hidden percentage is for Disruptor Ammo without upgrades chance to stun? Also I'd like to know about the chance to panic on Incendiary Ammo.

(Really it would be nice to know all those hidden factors.)

Modifié par Plumwinebunny, 26 avril 2012 - 06:58 .

[peddroelm]

coalesced.ini says 15% stun chance for disruptor ammo at rank I

No base value for incendiary ammo panic chance (must be hard-coded ...)

Modifié par peddroelmz, 26 avril 2012 - 09:26 .

[Frostmourne86]

What's the chance for Disruptor to stun if you pick the increased stun chance at Rank 6?

[Plumwinebunny]

Thank you peddroelmz!

Well Frostmourne86, if it begins with 15%, you gain 15% at rank 2, and 25% at rank 6, it should end up with 55% total.

Modifié par Plumwinebunny, 26 avril 2012 - 11:04 .

[Iodine]

Edit: Sorry this turned into such a well-fortified wall of text.
And if anyone does actually read the entire thing and sees anything they know or even suspect to be wrong, please bring it up. Everything but the numbers and other mechanics (hitreactions, RankBonuses, etc.) are purely speculation

I've never looked into it or tested, so I don't have a full/complete answer for you, but a few numbers and some "educated" speculation. According to biogame.ini, the base stun chance without upgrades for SP Disruptor Ammo is 1.0 (100%), +0.15 (15%) with r2 (RankBonuses[1]=0.15f, where [1] is the number of upgrades after taking the skill initially at r1, used for guaranteed, single option upgrades the player will receive at r1=[0], r2=[1], r3=[2]) and r6 +0.25 with the rank 6 stun chance evolution. The MP Disruptor Ammo I / II / III chances are 1.0 / 1.4 / 1.8.

Being a % chance but having a base value of 1.0 (i.e. 100%), it is undoubtedly modified (or it would stun/freeze/chill on every single hit using any weapon on every type of enemy). There is one most likely candidate for this, being that it's reasonably balanced for a very similar purpose already, is different for each enemy, and decreases (makes it less effective) for each higher level of difficulty (SP and MP both).

As part of each enemy's unique values/properties for each difficulty level, they have a modifier which normally modifies the chances of the various hit reaction types. These normal reactions are a light/normal reaction, a medium/stagger, and a heavy/knockback, which each have their own chances on different weapons/weapon types. These can be range-limited to short/medium/long (or not limited) range, for each body part, each with its own chance of light, medium, and/or heavy reactions and order of processing. Some things, like the Disciple for example, have a 1.0 reaction chance of heavy on all body parts (but "rolled for" last, I believe. haven't tested to be sure, though). But you'll notice in-game, the Disciple does not have a 100% knockback/stagger rate. This is because the hitreaction chances are modified (multiplied) by each enemy's unique stat, "HitReactionChanceMultiplier."

I would fairly confidently guess that Disruptor and Cryo Ammo's 1.0+ chance to stun are modified by this same HitReactionChanceMultiplier. This is balanced already so that the "stronger" enemies are less likely to be knocked back or (presumably) stunned/frozen/chilled, while mooks with their ~100-75% modifiers are much more likely to be stagger/knocked back and stunned/frozen. BUT there's a chance it could also based on the weapon's/weapon type's unique hit reaction chances (disruptor/cryo being a 1.0 or higher, it would either have the same chance as a normal/stagger/knockback reaction, or be a higher chance/more common than hitreactions with the same weapon). It could possibly even be that ONLY the weapon hitreaction chances modify the stun/freeze chance, which would make it so different weapons have different stun/freeze chances but every enemy (be it Assault Trooper or Atlas) would be stunned/frozen/chilled at the same rate (assuming they have the same body parts ).  I would probably guess it might be both modifiers (HitReactionChance and that weapon/body part/range's unique chance for a hitreaction), but I've never paid too close attention to it, so if it's fairly high, probably only one of them.

I just got home from a 4-hour class so my brain is not at its peak right now, so if anyone else wants to test right away, here are some ideas/numbers that might help. I would still strongly suggest looking up values yourself to be certain, and might want to pick something a bit tougher to test on (that won't die quite as easily from most weapons). Shotguns have high hitreaction chances for most/all body parts AND proc on every pellet if I'm not mistaken, so they are probably a bad choice for testing with.  I may very well be overlooking some glaring logical flaw here, it's more just an example/starting point if anyone does bother to test and figure it out. If not, I'll look into testing in the next few days.

A Cannibal or Assault Trooper has a HitReactionChanceMultiplier of 1.0 on Normal difficulty, and 0.75 on Insanity (or 0.85 on Hardcore). So with the base 1.0 chance to stun (or freeze) on Normal, a Trooper or Cannibal should be stunned/frozen on every hit (from any weapon) IF it's just the HitReactionChanceMultiplier modifying disruptor/cryo's stun/freeze chance. However, if it uses the weapon's/weapon type's reaction chances as well, it may occasionally (rarely) not effect them. Probably easier to test on Insanity with r6 Disruptor (1.4 chance), as this will be 1.4 * .75 HitChanceReactionModifier = 1.05 = 105% chance, every hit a stun/freeze, or if it is actually modified by the weapon's individual hitreaction chances as well it should occasionally not freeze/stun them.

Last random note if anyone chooses to test with Cryo instead of Disruptor (since it'd probably be a bit easier for testing purposes): 

• Cryo ammo's freeze chance probably works the same way, and its values are 1.0 base, 0.3 from r2, and 0.5 freeze chance evolution, though note that it's not listed as Formula=BonusIsHardValue, so Cryo's bonuses could be handled differently.

Modifié par Iodine, 27 avril 2012 - 04:17 .

[peddroelm]

I always thought hit- reaction numbers - applied to the physics part of the game ... How the enemies react to impact (rag-doll animations) of shot forces according to weapon type used and specific body part hit ...

Various types of light//heavy stagger in case of powerful non fatal shots ... And where the body ends up in the case of a fatal shot ...

Also what can you find about incendiary ammo chance to panic ?

[Delta_V2]

The reaction chances appear to be modified by your weapon. Either through weapon damage or on a weapon-by-weapon basis. For instance, it takes multiple rounds from an smg or assault rifle to reliably proc ammo effects, but when I use the Valiant, I'm basically guaranteed to stun/freeze/etc. the target on my first shot.

[Iodine]

I think the PowerThreshold_Normal / _Stagger / _Knockback are the only force-related things to determine whether or not you get a hit reaction from force/powers, but I'm not sure on that. As for hit reactions, most of those conclusions came from testing something else using the Disciple, which confused the hell out of me until I reasoned it out.

Disciple has 1.0 chance for Heavy (knockback) and all its reactions ignore shields completely, from any/unlimited range, on every body part, which would otherwise guarantee a knockback on every single hit, on any enemy. Only it doesn't have the heavy/knockback reaction on every single hit, even against Cannibals/Troopers/mooks on higher difficulties. I also suspect it processes ("rolls for") the different reactions in the order they're listed, and stops when it has a successful hit reaction, or else keeps going down the list for that body part (Heavy reactions are listed last for the Disciple). I'm not sure how other weapons (ones whose hitreactions don't ignore shields - some ignore chest/head reactions, but most are still restricted to Short/Medium range too) interact with shields/barriers

Hit reactions also seem to be like Overload's non-Neural Shock stun, where if you "clip" the end of one, it won't register. Even sufficiently spacing out shots, during testing I noticed there are very rare, random times with Disciple when there will be no hit reaction whatsoever, despite the 1.0 (100%) chance of a Knockback on every hit. So it's definitely modified, and from a few rounds of testing seemed to be in accordance with the <weapon/range/body part's hit reaction chance> * HitReactionChanceMultiplier, which seems (to me, at least to make sense. This allows the 0.3 HRCMultiplier Atlas/Banshee to have hitreactions much more rarely than, say, the 0.75 HRCMultiplier Trooper or Cannibal on Insanity (or 1.0 on Normal).

It's on my to-test list to revisit and test more thoroughly eventually, this is just what I reasoned out while testing other related things, and being puzzled by the Disciple's 100% chance for knockback failing. Of course, I haven't tested my theory of how it all fits together properly, and may very well be completely, totally wrong. :V There's a whole wilderness of untested mechanics out there, though, so I'm just trying to pick a starting point and work/test/reason out from there. This is why I make sure that half of my walls of text consist of disclaimers, "I think", "I'm guessing", "I'm reasonably certain", etc. to try to limit misinformation.

Edit: And regarding Incendiary Ammo, I've never seen anything that looked to be a base value, so I can't be of any help there. Even the rank 2 +15% (0.15) bonus panic chance is listed by itself, where I'd assume it would be like Disruptor or Cryo Ammo, with their <stun/freeze>chance = (BaseValue=1.0f,RankBonuses[1]=0.15f), but as I'm sure you've seen, Incendiary only has "panicchanceincrease=0.15f" for the rank 2 upgrade, with no apparent base. It could be hidden/not obvious, or could be that it uses something like the HitReaction of sfxgamecontent.sfxdamagetype_flamethrower_player (and the AI/Geth flamethrower damagetypes), which has a unique "(..Reaction=Reaction_Fire...)". The animation/reaction seems to be the same for flamethrowers and incinerate/incendiary ammo/fire explosions, at least. I really have no clue what it actually is, though.

Modifié par Iodine, 27 avril 2012 - 05:38 .

[adrenaline1983]

Bumping this so I have a link for re-reading this thread tomorrow. Good stuff Iodine.