My feelings on certain characters vary depending on what type of Hawke
I'm playing as, but I liked Anders fist time I played Da2 and understand
how players didn't like how he was written.
I'm actually glad
he was rewritten because would you take Ander's serously for what he
does in Da2 if he was still the same as he was in Awakening, he was a
jester in Awakening and he got on my nerves a bit so I handed him over
to the Templars in Awakening. If he was still the same the most daring
thing he would do is to put a whoopee cushion in Meredith's office and become a martyr for comedic mages everywhere.
In Da2 he's self-righteous and deeply troubled within himself. His hatred of the Templars worsens throughout Da2 and makes him almost unstable with his embodiment of Vengence.
I believe Carver does well expressing the feelings of players' dislike of Anders in all conversations.
How would you have written Ander's if you didn't like him
Débuté par
Karlone123
, avril 26 2012 03:11
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 26 avril 2012 - 04:54
Quinnzel
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I despise Anders in DA2, but I actually think it's a good thing that I do, and I attribute it to how well written, and plotted out his charecter was.
Anders evolved, and quite well I think. He goes from really not caring about other Mages in DA:A, to instigating a rebellion for the cause of Mage freedom. It's a big leap, and a huge arc to try and explain. Okay, the arc itself is a wee bit dependent on a mcguffin/Justice, but there was enough intially to hint towards the events that changed his charecter, that made me believe that DA2 Anders was a logical conclusion from Awakenings Anders.
Want to drastically alter a known companion? Just add Justice! Which in itself, was a great idea. Justice makes his views well known in Awakenings, and see's things through in DA2 after merging with Anders. Even Justice had a solid arc, evolving into Vengeance. Wahey! Moody Anders for everyone!
In Awakenings, I loved the dude. He was such a fresh breathe of air after the incessant whining of DA:O Alistair (another buddy-buddy charecter I initially liked, but eventually hated) and I apprecciated the wee roguish minutes he had. He was funny, his banter with Ohgren my absolute favourite, and I really enjoyed the moments when Justice questioned Him on Mages and the Chantry.
In DA2, I saw initially the old Anders I knew, albeit with a very large 'FREEEDOM!' upgrade. I approved, he was witty, funny old Anders, with a good helping of his buddy 'The-Spirit-Formerly-Known-As-Justice' and he was championing a seemingly good cause. As the game went on though, he began to sound too fanatical, too zealous. It took me a while to realise why everytime I spoke to him, I just wanted to punch him.
He had changed. Not just the change from DA:A to DA2, but just over the course of the sequel itself. I couldnt see the funny, old Anders. In his place, was this Angry, Zealot Abomination, centered on Retribution. Which, of course, culminated in his killing of innocents. I hated him, despised him, not just for his actions, but from what had been taken away: Anders.
It's strange to say it, but people change. For better or worse, we know this, encounter it each day in life. I hadn't actually experienced it to the level of Ander's charecter within a game before. The closest thing that had happened before in gaming for me, was Morrigan's revealing the ritual. I felt betrayed, insulted they had lied, and had to go have a good long think about what to do next in both cases.
And it was good.
The arc, the consequences, the choice about what to do (albiet, I yearned for a chance to stop the Mage-Templar's figthing, and just hand over Anders) all had weight for me. In the end, I came to the conclusion that I hate DA2 Anders, because he was written well enough for me to even feel anything about him (unlike..Alistair, or Zevran, whom I just did not care about) The crux being that because I had known the witty, 'OMG-CATZ!', and had liked that incarnation, it added a certain amount of mourning for that old sap in the wake of this murdering bugger.
I think I could only have suggested a few wee tweeks to DA2 Anders. I think we needed to see more of an initial struggle between Anders and Justice, though as I've only trolled!romanced him (and subsequently dumped him for Merrill, who has dominated being LI in pretty much all my games) once, I could be missing out on more of those moments. Seeing him realise more and more of what he was becoming would have also been a good move methinks. I would have also kept Ser Pounce-A-Lot, if only so that in between those lengthy moments of whining, he could revert back to the old 'OMG-CATZ!', and then I wouldnt have died so many time on the high-dragon (insta-rez cat FTW!)
These days, after 16 odd playthroughs, like yourself, I defer to how the Hakwe I've created would act. I've had pro-Mage, Mage Hawkes kill him, and pro-Templar Hawke's save him (only to kill him later
' ) and everything in between.
Anders evolved, and quite well I think. He goes from really not caring about other Mages in DA:A, to instigating a rebellion for the cause of Mage freedom. It's a big leap, and a huge arc to try and explain. Okay, the arc itself is a wee bit dependent on a mcguffin/Justice, but there was enough intially to hint towards the events that changed his charecter, that made me believe that DA2 Anders was a logical conclusion from Awakenings Anders.
Want to drastically alter a known companion? Just add Justice! Which in itself, was a great idea. Justice makes his views well known in Awakenings, and see's things through in DA2 after merging with Anders. Even Justice had a solid arc, evolving into Vengeance. Wahey! Moody Anders for everyone!
In Awakenings, I loved the dude. He was such a fresh breathe of air after the incessant whining of DA:O Alistair (another buddy-buddy charecter I initially liked, but eventually hated) and I apprecciated the wee roguish minutes he had. He was funny, his banter with Ohgren my absolute favourite, and I really enjoyed the moments when Justice questioned Him on Mages and the Chantry.
In DA2, I saw initially the old Anders I knew, albeit with a very large 'FREEEDOM!' upgrade. I approved, he was witty, funny old Anders, with a good helping of his buddy 'The-Spirit-Formerly-Known-As-Justice' and he was championing a seemingly good cause. As the game went on though, he began to sound too fanatical, too zealous. It took me a while to realise why everytime I spoke to him, I just wanted to punch him.
He had changed. Not just the change from DA:A to DA2, but just over the course of the sequel itself. I couldnt see the funny, old Anders. In his place, was this Angry, Zealot Abomination, centered on Retribution. Which, of course, culminated in his killing of innocents. I hated him, despised him, not just for his actions, but from what had been taken away: Anders.
It's strange to say it, but people change. For better or worse, we know this, encounter it each day in life. I hadn't actually experienced it to the level of Ander's charecter within a game before. The closest thing that had happened before in gaming for me, was Morrigan's revealing the ritual. I felt betrayed, insulted they had lied, and had to go have a good long think about what to do next in both cases.
And it was good.
The arc, the consequences, the choice about what to do (albiet, I yearned for a chance to stop the Mage-Templar's figthing, and just hand over Anders) all had weight for me. In the end, I came to the conclusion that I hate DA2 Anders, because he was written well enough for me to even feel anything about him (unlike..Alistair, or Zevran, whom I just did not care about) The crux being that because I had known the witty, 'OMG-CATZ!', and had liked that incarnation, it added a certain amount of mourning for that old sap in the wake of this murdering bugger.
I think I could only have suggested a few wee tweeks to DA2 Anders. I think we needed to see more of an initial struggle between Anders and Justice, though as I've only trolled!romanced him (and subsequently dumped him for Merrill, who has dominated being LI in pretty much all my games) once, I could be missing out on more of those moments. Seeing him realise more and more of what he was becoming would have also been a good move methinks. I would have also kept Ser Pounce-A-Lot, if only so that in between those lengthy moments of whining, he could revert back to the old 'OMG-CATZ!', and then I wouldnt have died so many time on the high-dragon (insta-rez cat FTW!)
These days, after 16 odd playthroughs, like yourself, I defer to how the Hakwe I've created would act. I've had pro-Mage, Mage Hawkes kill him, and pro-Templar Hawke's save him (only to kill him later
' ) and everything in between.
#3
Posté 26 avril 2012 - 11:10
Knight of Dane
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I wouldn't write him at all. Old companions should stay that way.
#4
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 05:38
hussey 92
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then why not just rewrite every character to better fit new stories.
#5
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 11:36
Dwarva
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I am interested in why Anders wasn't just a brand new character - why did they use a previously established character with background? I assume there's a reason for it but unless they keep personalities/backgrounds consistent it seems odd and just 'fanservice' in a way. Can you imagine if the Cullen-lovers all got their wish and he was an established character for DA3, then became a completely different person. The poop would really hit the fan, wouldn't it?
But then I'm sure this has been discussed many many times...
But then I'm sure this has been discussed many many times...
Modifié par Staarbux, 27 avril 2012 - 11:37 .
#6
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 05:47
Asdara
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I liked Anders overall.
I would have liked to have seen more interaction between Justice and Anders and the struggle during the changing period - I think that was somewhat hamstrung by the explanation given by Anders that "I don't know where he ends and I begin" - the sentiment of which leads me to believe that self-examination is not high on his priority list. Which is a pity, because you really don't get to see Justice outright unless you rivalmance him, and that just seems cruel to many: I hate your values, but I want to get it on with you just does not make a ton of sense. Not when there are other options ready to hand.
I would have liked to have seen more interaction between Justice and Anders and the struggle during the changing period - I think that was somewhat hamstrung by the explanation given by Anders that "I don't know where he ends and I begin" - the sentiment of which leads me to believe that self-examination is not high on his priority list. Which is a pity, because you really don't get to see Justice outright unless you rivalmance him, and that just seems cruel to many: I hate your values, but I want to get it on with you just does not make a ton of sense. Not when there are other options ready to hand.
#7
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 06:18
Rosinante
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Anders gets branded and serves as Meredith's bootlicker.
#8
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 06:34
Asdara
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3equis wrote...
Anders gets branded and serves as Meredith's bootlicker.
You're joking (?) but I think that would have been an interesting line of the story.
If say your Hawke is a pro-templar die-hard who wants to turn Anders in (maybe it wouldn't be possible until Act 2 or 3 depending on circumstances - I forgot when the possible break with him comes in, been a few months) he could get the brand [let's remember, he can die anyway at the end of the game, so removing him from the series equasion isn't really an issue] and end up one of the tranquil in the Circle - Justice... something happens... could be a demonized thing later or just vanish or try to possess someone else who knows - and then the Chantry gets blown up by radicals instead who were working with Anders and see his imprisonment/tranquility as the last straw whatever.
You can turn Fenris over to his slaver, but you're stuck with just wagging your finger at Anders and letting him carry merrily on as an abomination (if you think he is one) in the undercity. It's disproptionate.
#9
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 06:38
Asdara
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Or - even better:
You can turn Anders in during Act 2 if he starts getting wobbly and dangerous and they don't automatically make him tranquil, they put him in solitary or something as a courtesy or for study or whatever and then in Act 3 you hear they are going to make him tranquil and then you can either choose to break him out (if you're pro-templar but anti-tranquility rite) or let it happen and THEN radicals blow up the Chantry in revenge or Anders, unhinged by his betrayal/imprisonment/rescue rollercoaster goes on with his nutty plan, Justice having taken stronger hold in his infirmity.
That would have been great.
You can turn Anders in during Act 2 if he starts getting wobbly and dangerous and they don't automatically make him tranquil, they put him in solitary or something as a courtesy or for study or whatever and then in Act 3 you hear they are going to make him tranquil and then you can either choose to break him out (if you're pro-templar but anti-tranquility rite) or let it happen and THEN radicals blow up the Chantry in revenge or Anders, unhinged by his betrayal/imprisonment/rescue rollercoaster goes on with his nutty plan, Justice having taken stronger hold in his infirmity.
That would have been great.
#10
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 08:23
Cantina
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****I would have liked it if they introduced Anders to how he was in Awakening. Then over the course of the game, show the personality shift. Having it just tossed in my lap, made Anders come off as completely different character and it made it difficult to understand this was the same Anders from Awakening.
****Get to know Anders more on a personal level. While my Warden was able to know some back round information about Anders, my Hawke new very little other then what was made obvious. I do not like having to read their history in a codex, takes away the feeling of being connected with your companion.
****If the player chooses the rivalry path, they can stop Anders from destroying the Chantry. However, the Chantry still explodes because the Revolutionist stepped in and did. IF Hawke chose, the friendship path Anders would have done it himself.
****The opportunity to have a quest to remove Justice from Anders, this would have given a far more interesting outcome in “The Last Straw.”
****Anders actually moves in with you during Act 2 and you are able to give him the key to the cellar during this time.
****Instead of giving Anders a amulet as a gift, it would have been nice to give him one of the kittens, Merrill spoke about. Alternatively, his friend from Amaranthine could have shown up and wanted to return Ser Pounce-A lot to Anders since he left the Wardens. It would have been interesting to see not only his reaction but also the actions of your dog and the cat in the mansion if Anders moves in with you.
****If you choose to spare Anders and runaway with him, on the mage side, he gives you one final kiss.
Outside of these, I would not change much else.
****Get to know Anders more on a personal level. While my Warden was able to know some back round information about Anders, my Hawke new very little other then what was made obvious. I do not like having to read their history in a codex, takes away the feeling of being connected with your companion.
****If the player chooses the rivalry path, they can stop Anders from destroying the Chantry. However, the Chantry still explodes because the Revolutionist stepped in and did. IF Hawke chose, the friendship path Anders would have done it himself.
****The opportunity to have a quest to remove Justice from Anders, this would have given a far more interesting outcome in “The Last Straw.”
****Anders actually moves in with you during Act 2 and you are able to give him the key to the cellar during this time.
****Instead of giving Anders a amulet as a gift, it would have been nice to give him one of the kittens, Merrill spoke about. Alternatively, his friend from Amaranthine could have shown up and wanted to return Ser Pounce-A lot to Anders since he left the Wardens. It would have been interesting to see not only his reaction but also the actions of your dog and the cat in the mansion if Anders moves in with you.
****If you choose to spare Anders and runaway with him, on the mage side, he gives you one final kiss.
Outside of these, I would not change much else.
Modifié par Cantina, 28 avril 2012 - 08:24 .
#11
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 09:02
Gervaise
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It would have been nice to have the option of successfully persuading Anders not to go ahead with the bomb but the Resolutionists step in and it happens anyway, Meredith arrests Anders thinking he is responsible and so you rescue him at the same time as saving the other mages.
I really hated the fact that as a friend you have no option but to tacitly support the bombing of the Chantry. The excuse that he didn't want to involve you always seemed a bit lame, particularly if you had been supporting mages all the way through. Most annoying was talking to him in the Gallows where his speech with you implies that he thinks sparing his life meant you did approve of his actions. Mind you that didn't just apply to Anders. Nowhere was there an acknowledgement that you were trying to prevent an injustice in defending the Circle Mages from the Anulment, not supporting a fullscale mage rebellion and destruction of the Chantry.
I would also have liked to have seen glowy powerful Anders make more of an effort to help our cause after the Chantry bomb. When initially fighting the templars in lowtown after Meredith leaves, Anders stays sulking in a corner until it is over. When we finally confront uber powerful Meredith it would have been a nice touch for Justice to emerge to take her on. It just seemed odd that glowy Justice comes out to try and kill Ella but against Meredith there is nothing.
I really hated the fact that as a friend you have no option but to tacitly support the bombing of the Chantry. The excuse that he didn't want to involve you always seemed a bit lame, particularly if you had been supporting mages all the way through. Most annoying was talking to him in the Gallows where his speech with you implies that he thinks sparing his life meant you did approve of his actions. Mind you that didn't just apply to Anders. Nowhere was there an acknowledgement that you were trying to prevent an injustice in defending the Circle Mages from the Anulment, not supporting a fullscale mage rebellion and destruction of the Chantry.
I would also have liked to have seen glowy powerful Anders make more of an effort to help our cause after the Chantry bomb. When initially fighting the templars in lowtown after Meredith leaves, Anders stays sulking in a corner until it is over. When we finally confront uber powerful Meredith it would have been a nice touch for Justice to emerge to take her on. It just seemed odd that glowy Justice comes out to try and kill Ella but against Meredith there is nothing.
#12
Posté 29 avril 2012 - 03:57
keesio74
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Cantina wrote...
****I would have liked it if they introduced Anders to how he was in Awakening. Then over the course of the game, show the personality shift. Having it just tossed in my lap, made Anders come off as completely different character and it made it difficult to understand this was the same Anders from Awakening.
Yes. I agree completely.
I wouldn't have minded how Anders behaved if I never played Awakening. But because I played Awakening and maxed out 100 friendship with him and Justice, I had a positive impression of both of them and let that impact how I dealt with them (too trusting). I suppose people can change over time but it just didn't feel right with Anders. Heck, he actually supported the concept of the Circle in Awakenings (remember the Wynne quest?). And Justice... normally I would be very worried of someone posessed by a spirit. But I was like "hey, it's Justice, I remember him from Awakening. He's a good dude, no worries". The Justice I know would not support blowing up the CHantry.
#13
Posté 29 avril 2012 - 07:37
Tommyspa
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Short version, the only thing I would change in his development was adding a larger step between his funny to his obsessiveness to his corruption of vengeance into guilt and remorse. Still hard to complain as he's my favorite character so far in DA overall, his arc down full rivalry and siding with the templars was amazing to follow.
#14
Posté 29 avril 2012 - 12:53
sylvanaerie
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I'd fix his borked up dialogue during a rivalry. On one of my playthroughs I rivaled him to 100% but was totally with the mages, releasing the Starkhaven mages, keeping mum about Thrask's daughter, saved Feynriel in the Fade (after sending him to the Dalish), told Ella to go see her parents then get the hell outta Dodge, I fought off the qunari wanting to kill Ketojan instead of turning him over, argued to let Keran keep his job (a mage choice). He even initially refused to do Meredith's quest in Act 3 till she 'mentioned' Bethany in the Circle (she was not a grey warden).
Then when i get to Act 3 and am arguing with him about his quest (I think it's the one where he plants the bomb) he makes the comment that I'm in Knight Commander Crazy's pocket. WTF Anders? He had helped him and mages the entire game and he's supposed to be Meredith's lap dog?
The way I RP'ed this character was, he supported mages for Bethany's sake (he was a warrior), but he really hated...I mean HATED Anders as an example of everything Malcolm had warned Bethany against. He saw Anders as an abomination from day 1, and they butted heads immediately, but he never wavered in his support of his sister and the mage cause.
So apparently, his dialogues are tied up in 'if rivaled Anders assumes you are pro-templar, if friended, you are pro-mage'. There is no option to say "I hate you, but not the ideals you stand for, Anders".
This was the only thing I'd 'change' about how he was written. Frankly, I was mostly satisfied with how he was written in the game, I just excuse all that in my head with how the Justice/Anders merger fubared both personalities. I was sad to see one of my favorite companions go this direction, but I can see the logic behind him doing it.
Then when i get to Act 3 and am arguing with him about his quest (I think it's the one where he plants the bomb) he makes the comment that I'm in Knight Commander Crazy's pocket. WTF Anders? He had helped him and mages the entire game and he's supposed to be Meredith's lap dog?
The way I RP'ed this character was, he supported mages for Bethany's sake (he was a warrior), but he really hated...I mean HATED Anders as an example of everything Malcolm had warned Bethany against. He saw Anders as an abomination from day 1, and they butted heads immediately, but he never wavered in his support of his sister and the mage cause.
So apparently, his dialogues are tied up in 'if rivaled Anders assumes you are pro-templar, if friended, you are pro-mage'. There is no option to say "I hate you, but not the ideals you stand for, Anders".
This was the only thing I'd 'change' about how he was written. Frankly, I was mostly satisfied with how he was written in the game, I just excuse all that in my head with how the Justice/Anders merger fubared both personalities. I was sad to see one of my favorite companions go this direction, but I can see the logic behind him doing it.
#15
Posté 29 avril 2012 - 05:26
Cantina
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Forgot to add one things to my reply:
****Allow the female Hawke to know about Anders previous relationship with Karl.
****Allow the female Hawke to know about Anders previous relationship with Karl.
Modifié par Cantina, 29 avril 2012 - 05:26 .
#16
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 01:07
dahoughtonuk
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The problem is with the snapshots it's too broad brush. Oh I can see that the progression was intended to be natural, but it fails, because there is not enough development. Justice was on the downward slide when we met him in DAO:Awakening. (Subtle there, but he was.)
To me the execution is poor but the idea is good.
To me the execution is poor but the idea is good.
#17
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 05:14
EricHVela
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(To maintain the discussion, I'm going to base this on the assumption that Varric was reasonably accurate about what happened. Otherwise, there's no point in discussing anything that happened in Dragon Age: Kirkwall at all.)
I think it was okay to change Anders. If they had a lot of other characters in Kirkwall that they changed from Origins, I would start to take issue with it.
I don't find it unreasonable to have one character go through a drastic change. Yet if everyone changes so much, then why bother with the previous stories at all?
As for the transition from Awakening to Kirkwall, I'm also okay with the drastic change. It has been from close to a year to a little over a year since Anders' involvement in Awakening. Being an abomination takes far less time to lose one's mind. Anders managed for ~ a year.
(AFAIK, Anders was a real abomination while Wynne was "connected" in a different sense rather than sharing possession of her body and soul.)
EDIT: To be on the original topic:
If I hadn't liked Anders, the alternative I wouldn't mind is Anders being a peripheral character, free from Justice and back to his old Awakening self, rather than a plot-centric character.
I think it was okay to change Anders. If they had a lot of other characters in Kirkwall that they changed from Origins, I would start to take issue with it.
I don't find it unreasonable to have one character go through a drastic change. Yet if everyone changes so much, then why bother with the previous stories at all?
As for the transition from Awakening to Kirkwall, I'm also okay with the drastic change. It has been from close to a year to a little over a year since Anders' involvement in Awakening. Being an abomination takes far less time to lose one's mind. Anders managed for ~ a year.
(AFAIK, Anders was a real abomination while Wynne was "connected" in a different sense rather than sharing possession of her body and soul.)
EDIT: To be on the original topic:
If I hadn't liked Anders, the alternative I wouldn't mind is Anders being a peripheral character, free from Justice and back to his old Awakening self, rather than a plot-centric character.
Modifié par ReggarBlane, 27 juin 2012 - 05:16 .
#18
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 05:51
berelinde
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Nope, literal possession occurred in both cases. Same thing, different kind of spirit.ReggarBlane wrote...
(AFAIK, Anders was a real abomination while Wynne was "connected" in a different sense rather than sharing possession of her body and soul.)
Wynne was possessed by a spirit of faith. Faith is a passive, nurturing thing and is mostly concerned with the wellbeing of an individual. When everything is ticking along, it sits back and lets nature take its course. Wynne is probably a lot more preachy than she used to be, but she still has a sense of self. When the spirit of faith *did* take direct control, Wynne got knocked on her butt and had zero control over the power the spirit was channeling through her. That's what happened in DA:O when your party confronted the Hurlock Omega. She was very upset about her loss of control, if you recall. Most of the time, though, the spirit minds its own business because faith is a private, personal thing that rarely gets involved in the doings of others.
Anders was possessed by a spirit of justice. Justice is *not* a passive thing. It is concerned with the wellbeing of the world. When everything is ticking along, it sits back and lets nature take its course. Anders is a lot more serious than he used to be, but he still has a sense of self. When the spirit of justice *did* take direct control, Anders didn't necessarily get knocked on his butt, but he had zero control over the power the spirit was channeling through him. That's what happened in DA2 during the confrontation with Alrik. Anders, too, was upset about his loss of control. Justice can't sit back and mind its own business because inaction is the antithesis of its nature. Justice *must* act. It *must* make its influence felt. And it does get involved in the doings of others because that's what justice is.
Wynne also did not have that vast pool of hatred for the spirit to drop into when it entered her body. Anders did, and in the process, Justice's perception was changed. That seething hate was always in Anders. He just turned it toward sarcasm and mockery because he was powerless to do anything else.
So no, if Wynne was not an abomination, neither was Anders, and if Anders was, so was Wynne.
According to Wynne, self-awareness was what separated spirit-possessed mages from abominations. She still had her sense of self, so she did not consider herself to be an abomination. Anders possessed self-awareness, as well. He knew that he had changed since Justice moved in, but he still had a sense of self.
And Wynne was very literally possessed by a spirit. It was not some kind of "connection" to the Fade, it was a literal physical possession. ***Asunder spoiler alert!*** At the end of the book, she convinces the spirit that inhabits her to leave and move into Evangeline. The spirit physically leaves Wynne's body and enters Evangeline's, Evangeline is brought back from the dead just like Wynne was, and Wynne dies.
If you want to argue about the nature of spirits and demons, you might have better luck. Faith is almost certainly a spirit rather than a demon. Justice is a little more demon-like because it sticks its nose in other peoples' business a lot more, but it's probably still spirit-like enough to satisfy most people. Vengeance is anybody's guess. If it were my call, I'd put it right on the cusp between spirit and demon, but YMMV.
Anyway, the point here isn't to say "I'm right and you're wrong," it's to say that the lines are a lot blurrier than they look.
#19
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 06:00
EricHVela
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Of course. I get that. It's still open to interpretation.berelinde wrote...
it's to say that the lines are a lot blurrier than they look.
With Anders, it looked like Justice/Vengeance overtook Anders at times. It didn't seem symbiotic by any means. It seemed to me to be the same as a mage giving in to a demon, which is what an abomination is.
As far as I could tell, Faith never took over Wynne.
Yet, that's just perceptions. One could say that Wynne channeled Faith by her own will and so did Anders, but given how Anders go out-of-control, I lean towards the abomination aspect for him instead of the whole "I'm still in control" like Wynne was.
To me, that's reason enough for Anders to change so much since Awakening.
Modifié par ReggarBlane, 27 juin 2012 - 06:02 .
#20
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 06:05
berelinde
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Faith *did* take over Wynne. Once in a cutscene where the party confronts a hurlock omega and again *every single time* she used the Vessel of the Spirit talent. She did not channel the spirit. It was already there. She tells you that herself.
#21
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 06:21
EricHVela
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It's up for interpretation.berelinde wrote...
Faith *did* take over Wynne. Once in a cutscene where the party confronts a hurlock omega and again *every single time* she used the Vessel of the Spirit talent. She did not channel the spirit. It was already there. She tells you that herself.
#22
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 06:27
dahoughtonuk
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Imagine two friends who like each other but continually argue, and are heavily independent minded, between two friend who usually agree but have an occasional argument. It matters less that the second pair cannot go into separate rooms.
Wynne also visited the fade more often. Anders and Justice were tugging against each other, Wynne and Faith were a team. Sometimes one took over for the other but they accepted each other.
Wynne also visited the fade more often. Anders and Justice were tugging against each other, Wynne and Faith were a team. Sometimes one took over for the other but they accepted each other.
Modifié par dahoughtonuk, 27 juin 2012 - 06:28 .
#23
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 07:29
berelinde
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It's stated by Wynne several times. If you want to interpret that as Wynne not having the faintest idea what she was talking about, that's up to you.ReggarBlane wrote...
It's up for interpretation.berelinde wrote...
Faith *did* take over Wynne. Once in a cutscene where the party confronts a hurlock omega and again *every single time* she used the Vessel of the Spirit talent. She did not channel the spirit. It was already there. She tells you that herself.
#24
Posté 28 juin 2012 - 03:32
LolaLei
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I wouldn't have changed him exactly, but I would've had him start out more light hearted (closer to his personality in DA:A) but as time goes on Justice's influence over him begins to change him into someone more serious, then as he comes to fully understand the Mages plight he'd start talking about it more and more until he became the Anders we see in DA2.
I'm not gonna lie, It was quite jarring upon meeting him for the first time in DA2 because his personally had changed so drastically yet we didn't get to see the transition happen in-game.
I'm not gonna lie, It was quite jarring upon meeting him for the first time in DA2 because his personally had changed so drastically yet we didn't get to see the transition happen in-game.
#25
Posté 28 juin 2012 - 03:37
LolaLei
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Staarbux wrote...
I am interested in why Anders wasn't just a brand new character - why did they use a previously established character with background? I assume there's a reason for it but unless they keep personalities/backgrounds consistent it seems odd and just 'fanservice' in a way. Can you imagine if the Cullen-lovers all got their wish and he was an established character for DA3, then became a completely different person. The poop would really hit the fan, wouldn't it?
But then I'm sure this has been discussed many many times...
Damn straight it would!
... I'd still romance him though LOL!
