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What are you implying Bioware? (Synthesize this!)


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#401
Gill Kaiser

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RX_Sean_XI wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's a joke. I cannot fathom the implications. The horror. Who the hell thought this was a good idea?


Remember they didn't make the ending. Not really anyways.

They just stole it from Deus Ex.

In Deus Ex the world was a dystopia and under the control of the Illuminati. The world was already screwed, so forming an AI god with Helios was a legitimate (even preferred) option.

The important differences between Deus Ex's transhumanist ending and ME3 are:

- In the Helios ending, it's only Denton, the player, that is merging. The choice is yours to make.
- It's also important that Helios is working against the antagonist with you; he is not the antagonist himself.
- The alternatives to merging are a to cause a worldwide technological apocalypse, or to allow the Illuminati to continue to manipulate the world for their own ends, even if it means genocide.

ME3's Synthesis ending is as if you decided to merge Bob Page with Helios to form a new psychotic AI, spread it throughout the world's population via the Gray Death, then decided to blow up the world's communications hub AS WELL.

It's just so wrong, I can't even think about it.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 26 avril 2012 - 10:23 .


#402
Iakus

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nitefyre410 wrote...

Why do we need a differcult choice,  to show the cost of the war ... really I can do  that easily.  Billions are dead, Billions more in displaced refugees, huge supply shortages, a break down of the law and order due  riots and supply shortages.   Pirates would have a field day, the Ecomony is shambles. the list could go on. 

The Relays nor  sacrificing the Geth or EDI are needed to  show the cost of the Reaper War.    None of  the choices present  get across the  cost of the anything in any meaningful way. 



I for one would trash the entire relay network with a big smile on my face if it meant not genociding the geth or putting the galaxy's races through a magical genetic blender.

#403
Peranor

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Taboo-XX wrote...


It's a PR thing. They are "Expanding" with info. They are "changing" the endings without changing them.



Precisely

#404
Kunari801

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Reidbynature wrote...

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

Wait, what's this supposed possibility that EDI and the Geth can possibly not be killed off in the "destruction" ending? I thought they weren't changing the consequences of the endings?


They aren't changing the endings, so they'll be labeled "Control" "Destroy" and "Synthesis" but their outcomes can be changed and added too. 

I'd like to see "Control" split into two:   1- A way to just kick the Reapers out (even if it just resets the cycle) but have Shepard lives and 2- Shepard joins the Reapers for permanent control.  

I'd like to see "Destroy" split up too, with high enough EMS you can choose to kill the Reapers and yourself (Thus saving the Geth & EDI) or sacrifice the Geth & EDI to save yourself.  


This would be the best way to do it. Also get rid of the colors red and blue, since people are thinking of them as their respected "alignment" (one thing I always hated). Let's say make the colors all purple. 


It would be interesting if with a high enough assets rating the control ending changed so that Shepard replaced the Catalyst and you have Shepard there permanently in the Citadel as a holographic AI keeping away the Reapers indefinitely.  Then balance that with the destroy ending with a high enough assets rating where he doesn't kill the Geth then it becomes more palatable for a lot of people.

There still no way I can see the  synthesize ending being salvaged, I think it's too fundamentally flawed.


I can't see a way to make Synthesis palatable either.  

#405
Taboo

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anorling wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


It's a PR thing. They are "Expanding" with info. They are "changing" the endings without changing them.



Precisely


You aren't getting NEW endings.

The endings are changing with the expansion.

It took this long to get my point across?

Ugh, my writing is worse than I thought.

#406
Muhkida

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Taboo-XX wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

Wait, what's this supposed possibility that EDI and the Geth can possible not be killed off in the "destruction" ending? I thought they weren't changing the consequences of the endings?


They aren't changing the endings. That means Synthesis, Control and Destroy are still in place.

I've been trying to say this for a about two weeks now.

It took a match to the powder keg for people to notice but I don't care anymore..........


I know the endings won't change, but the results of what the game's end details us (specifically the Catalyst) and what the devs are saying are contradictory.


It's a PR thing. They are "Expanding" with info. They are "changing" the endings without changing them.


Like an author penciling in extra dialogue to the last chapter of a book that's already been published.

Well, there goes the supposed "integrity"

Modifié par Muhkida, 26 avril 2012 - 10:34 .


#407
Kunari801

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Taboo-XX wrote...

anorling wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


It's a PR thing. They are "Expanding" with info. They are "changing" the endings without changing them.



Precisely


You aren't getting NEW endings.

The endings are changing with the expansion.

It took this long to get my point across?

Ugh, my writing is worse than I thought.


No some of us got that info in your other, "What you shoudl know..." thread. 

#408
RocketManSR2

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Kunari801 wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

Wait, what's this supposed possibility that EDI and the Geth can possibly not be killed off in the "destruction" ending? I thought they weren't changing the consequences of the endings?


They aren't changing the endings, so they'll be labeled "Control" "Destroy" and "Synthesis" but their outcomes can be changed and added too. 

I'd like to see "Control" split into two:   1- A way to just kick the Reapers out (even if it just resets the cycle) but have Shepard lives and 2- Shepard joins the Reapers for permanent control.  

I'd like to see "Destroy" split up too, with high enough EMS you can choose to kill the Reapers and yourself (Thus saving the Geth & EDI) or sacrifice the Geth & EDI to save yourself.  


Better yet, paragon/renegade the starchild into taking the Reapers & leaving. Shepard could just say "Give us all the chance to find out for ourselves! Don't force your solution on us! Take the Reapers and return to dark space and watch. Do not interfere in any way. We will show you how wrong you are."

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 26 avril 2012 - 10:34 .


#409
Kunari801

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RocketManSR2 wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

Wait, what's this supposed possibility that EDI and the Geth can possibly not be killed off in the "destruction" ending? I thought they weren't changing the consequences of the endings?


They aren't changing the endings, so they'll be labeled "Control" "Destroy" and "Synthesis" but their outcomes can be changed and added too. 

I'd like to see "Control" split into two:   1- A way to just kick the Reapers out (even if it just resets the cycle) but have Shepard lives and 2- Shepard joins the Reapers for permanent control.  

I'd like to see "Destroy" split up too, with high enough EMS you can choose to kill the Reapers and yourself (Thus saving the Geth & EDI) or sacrifice the Geth & EDI to save yourself.  


Better yet, paragon/renegade the starchild into taking the Reapers & leaving. Shepard could just say "Give us all the chance to prove you wrong. Take the Reapers and return to dark space and watch. Do not interfere in any way. We will show you how wrong you are."  


That's pretty much my thoughts on the "Reset the cycle" part of my suggestion but said in a better way.  :happy:  I was thinking more like "Now, get the hell out of our galaxy!"

Modifié par Kunari801, 26 avril 2012 - 10:29 .


#410
HinduCowGirl

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Taboo-XX wrote...

anorling wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


It's a PR thing. They are "Expanding" with info. They are "changing" the endings without changing them.



Precisely


You aren't getting NEW endings.

The endings are changing with the expansion.

It took this long to get my point across?

Ugh, my writing is worse than I thought.


I think most have been hoping for added endings and clarification of the sucky one that already exist... I my self is one of them who hopes for added ending, atleast a GOOD ending, one that does not end with the demise of the galaxy.

If I wanted the depressing ending, I would just look out the window. Bah to you BioFAIL

#411
Peranor

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Taboo-XX wrote...

anorling wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


It's a PR thing. They are "Expanding" with info. They are "changing" the endings without changing them.



Precisely


You aren't getting NEW endings.

The endings are changing with the expansion.

It took this long to get my point across?

Ugh, my writing is worse than I thought.


Don't worry. I got it :happy:

#412
Seryl

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MisterJB wrote...

Seryl wrote...
Then you are supremely arrogant. I rarely resort to ad hominems on the Internet, but I do think this is apt.

Reread what I wrote about how those past would have pushed the "Remove Homosexuality" button and they would have been just as justified and correct in their line of reasoning as you are. They wouldn't have known what they were doing; they wouldn't have had all the information required to make a decision of that magnitude, but they would have believed themselves to be right. It's pure hubris.

There are myths, legends and all kinds of other tales warning of this sort of hubris and how it always ends badly. History records lots of instances of people doing this kind of thing. The phrase "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" sums up why this is not a decision that people should be tempted to make.

Right or wrong is relative. Yes, to those people removing homosexuality would have made a better world while today, we would call it a hate crime.


Ignoring the problems with "Right or wrong is relative", you're using moral relativism to state that nobody can make a judgement on anything, while at the same time judging that those in the past would
have comitted a hate crime?

However, that still should not affect the decision Shepard has to make in 2187. He is a man of that age bounded by the morals of that age. With Synthesis, he is offered an option of preventing a war between synthetics and organics by bringing both forms of life together in mutual understanding and acceptance and I believe he should take it.


Except that the brat offering him that possibility has no reason to tell the truth. The brat's very existence proves that war probably won't happen. Shepard's own actions throughout the game also proves the certainty of that war suspect.

So, essentially Shepard is offered the POSSIBILITY of avoiding a war that may never happen anyway in exchange for overwriting the free will and choice of every living creature in the galaxy? This seems like a fair exchange?

Javik makes a comment in his "Throw the machine out of the airlock" speech that there was a race in his cycle that implanted themselves
with machinery. The machinery eventually took over the bodies of those
using it and made them a slave race. If that's not an in game rejection
of Synthesis, I don't know what is.

We can't make our decisions based on the morals our grand-grandsons might have but rather on the effects they will have on the world we live in.


Which is precisely why decisions of the magnitude that the Synthesis ending gives us should never be made by anybody. What is correct today may not be correct tomorrow and the person making the choice has no way to tell.

#413
MisterJB

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RocketManSR2 wrote...
Better yet, paragon/renegade the starchild into taking the Reapers & leaving. Shepard could just say "Give us all the chance to prove you wrong. Take the Reapers and return to dark space and watch. Do not interfere in any way. We will show you how wrong you are."

They have been watching for billions of years. Why do you think this cycle will actually prove them wrong?

#414
Kunari801

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HinduCowGirl wrote...
I think most have been hoping for added endings and clarification of the sucky one that already exist... I my self is one of them who hopes for added ending, atleast a GOOD ending, one that does not end with the demise of the galaxy.

If I wanted the depressing ending, I would just look out the window. Bah to you BioFAIL


They aren't changing the endings, so they'll be labeled "Control" "Destroy" and "Synthesis" but their outcomes can be changed and added too

I'd like to see "Control" split into two:   1- A way to just kick the Reapers out (even if it just resets the cycle) but have Shepard lives and 2- Shepard joins the Reapers for permanent control.  

I'd like to see "Destroy" split up too, with high enough EMS you can choose to kill the Reapers and yourself (Thus saving the Geth & EDI) or sacrifice the Geth & EDI to save yourself. 

#415
Taboo

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Well that makes me feel better. I don't think I was ever criticized for being a TERRIBLE writer.

I still don't think it's good enough.

At least it provokes stimulating conversation.

#416
HinduCowGirl

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Kunari801 wrote...

HinduCowGirl wrote...
I think most have been hoping for added endings and clarification of the sucky one that already exist... I my self is one of them who hopes for added ending, atleast a GOOD ending, one that does not end with the demise of the galaxy.

If I wanted the depressing ending, I would just look out the window. Bah to you BioFAIL


They aren't changing the endings, so they'll be labeled "Control" "Destroy" and "Synthesis" but their outcomes can be changed and added too

I'd like to see "Control" split into two:   1- A way to just kick the Reapers out (even if it just resets the cycle) but have Shepard lives and 2- Shepard joins the Reapers for permanent control.  

I'd like to see "Destroy" split up too, with high enough EMS you can choose to kill the Reapers and yourself (Thus saving the Geth & EDI) or sacrifice the Geth & EDI to save yourself. 


I still think it's horrible to have to chose to eradicate the Geth. Why not just change the Reaper code. We were able to do it for the Geth and set them free, so why not just hack Harbingers ass back to into dark space and disable them for good?

#417
IanPolaris

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MisterJB wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...
Better yet, paragon/renegade the starchild into taking the Reapers & leaving. Shepard could just say "Give us all the chance to prove you wrong. Take the Reapers and return to dark space and watch. Do not interfere in any way. We will show you how wrong you are."

They have been watching for billions of years. Why do you think this cycle will actually prove them wrong?


Because this cycle has already done things that no other cycle came close to doing.  Even Javik says that his people never even glimpsed the "finish line".

-Polaris

#418
Dukkhar

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MisterJB wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...
Better yet, paragon/renegade the starchild into taking the Reapers & leaving. Shepard could just say "Give us all the chance to prove you wrong. Take the Reapers and return to dark space and watch. Do not interfere in any way. We will show you how wrong you are."

They have been watching for billions of years. Why do you think this cycle will actually prove them wrong?


Because otherwise it's not a story worth telling. In that case you can just give up as soon as you start ME1.

#419
MisterJB

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IanPolaris wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...
Better yet, paragon/renegade the starchild into taking the Reapers & leaving. Shepard could just say "Give us all the chance to prove you wrong. Take the Reapers and return to dark space and watch. Do not interfere in any way. We will show you how wrong you are."

They have been watching for billions of years. Why do you think this cycle will actually prove them wrong?


Because this cycle has already done things that no other cycle came close to doing.  Even Javik says that his people never even glimpsed the "finish line".

-Polaris

Javik doesn't know what happened prior to his own cycle.
But more important is the nature of what this cycle has done. Shepard can, possibly, unite the galaxy. Or the geth can destroy the quarians and vice-versa.
Even if he brokered a peace, that different nations can come together when faced with a common threat is nothing new. How is that an indicative that peace will last?

Modifié par MisterJB, 26 avril 2012 - 10:43 .


#420
Kunari801

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HinduCowGirl wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

HinduCowGirl wrote...
I think most have been hoping for added endings and clarification of the sucky one that already exist... I my self is one of them who hopes for added ending, atleast a GOOD ending, one that does not end with the demise of the galaxy.

If I wanted the depressing ending, I would just look out the window. Bah to you BioFAIL


They aren't changing the endings, so they'll be labeled "Control" "Destroy" and "Synthesis" but their outcomes can be changed and added too

I'd like to see "Control" split into two:   1- A way to just kick the Reapers out (even if it just resets the cycle) but have Shepard lives and 2- Shepard joins the Reapers for permanent control.  

I'd like to see "Destroy" split up too, with high enough EMS you can choose to kill the Reapers and yourself (Thus saving the Geth & EDI) or sacrifice the Geth & EDI to save yourself. 


I still think it's horrible to have to chose to eradicate the Geth. Why not just change the Reaper code. We were able to do it for the Geth and set them free, so why not just hack Harbingers ass back to into dark space and disable them for good?


If they did as I suggested you wouldn't *have* to eradicate the Geth.  My Shepard would gladly give his life to kill the Reapers so those he cared about --his friends and loved ones-- can live.  

"Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams."  

If my last act ended the Reapers and gave hope and dreams to my friends and loved ones I'd consider that acceptable. 

Modifié par Kunari801, 26 avril 2012 - 10:45 .


#421
Caveatk4

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Linksys17 wrote...

Wow eating a salad would make you a serial killer


So... eating breakfast would make me a cereal killer?

:P

Sorry, couldn't resist.  Will now return the thread to the serious discussion the OP intended it to be.

#422
RocketManSR2

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MisterJB wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...
Better yet, paragon/renegade the starchild into taking the Reapers & leaving. Shepard could just say "Give us all the chance to prove you wrong. Take the Reapers and return to dark space and watch. Do not interfere in any way. We will show you how wrong you are."

They have been watching for billions of years. Why do you think this cycle will actually prove them wrong?


I don't know if it eventually will. Neither do the Reapers/Catalyst. They just take it upon themselves to play god and force their "solution" on other organic species. That is immoral and unethical in so many ways it's not even funny. They never give organic life the chance to find out. It's like their truth or none at all. That is absolutely wrong.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 26 avril 2012 - 10:47 .


#423
Taboo

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Kunari801 wrote...

HinduCowGirl wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

HinduCowGirl wrote...
I think most have been hoping for added endings and clarification of the sucky one that already exist... I my self is one of them who hopes for added ending, atleast a GOOD ending, one that does not end with the demise of the galaxy.

If I wanted the depressing ending, I would just look out the window. Bah to you BioFAIL


They aren't changing the endings, so they'll be labeled "Control" "Destroy" and "Synthesis" but their outcomes can be changed and added too

I'd like to see "Control" split into two:   1- A way to just kick the Reapers out (even if it just resets the cycle) but have Shepard lives and 2- Shepard joins the Reapers for permanent control.  

I'd like to see "Destroy" split up too, with high enough EMS you can choose to kill the Reapers and yourself (Thus saving the Geth & EDI) or sacrifice the Geth & EDI to save yourself. 


I still think it's horrible to have to chose to eradicate the Geth. Why not just change the Reaper code. We were able to do it for the Geth and set them free, so why not just hack Harbingers ass back to into dark space and disable them for good?


If they did as I suggested you wouldn't *have* to eradicate the Geth.  My Shepard would gladly give his life to kill the Reapers so those he cared about --his friends and loved ones-- can live.   "Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams."  



Shepard already died once. Killing him again lessens the impact. He sacrifices himself in two endings. There doesn't need to be three. With a High enough EMS only the Reapers are destroyed. There are already billions and billions and BILLIONS of dead people. That's already mature enough.

#424
IanPolaris

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MisterJB wrote...

Javik doesn't know what happened prior to his own cycle.
But more important is the nature of what this cycle has done. Shepard can, possibly, unite the galaxy. Or the geth can destroy the quarians and vice-versa.
Even if he brokered a peace, that different nations can come together when faced with a common threat is nothing new. How is that an indicative that peace will last?


There is no guarantee but as Starbrat himself admits, no other cycle has (apparently) breeched his inner sanctum either which means that this cycle is different.  It is not a far leap to then conclude that this cycle should be given the benefit of the doubt since the old solution no longer works.

-Polaris

#425
Kunari801

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Taboo-XX wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

If they did as I suggested you wouldn't *have* to eradicate the Geth.  My Shepard would gladly give his life to kill the Reapers so those he cared about --his friends and loved ones-- can live.   "Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams."  



Shepard already died once. Killing him again lessens the impact. He sacrifices himself in two endings. There doesn't need to be three. With a High enough EMS only the Reapers are destroyed. There are already billions and billions and BILLIONS of dead people. That's already mature enough.


We died once and it wasn't even our choice, it was a cut-scene.   Making the sacrifice at the end of ME3 *would* be by our choice and would be meaningful.  

I have no objections if I could Destroy the Reapers and save the Relays, Geth, EDI, and retire with my LI (I love you Kaidan).   

Modifié par Kunari801, 26 avril 2012 - 10:51 .