897 réponses à ce sujet

[Mylia Stenetch]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

The problem with that though is, as I said earlier in the thread (about morality). It is what your interpretation of what is ethical to you (or morality). During time of war, morality and ethics are usually through out the window, and we follow the idea of kill or be killed with become dominant. This is amplified when you are facing genocide of all races in the know galaxy. *You* will take what you think is the best at that moment. If you want to look at the endings with Western Morality and ethics. All ending are horendous for what they are doing, they are taking every right people had and throwing it down the tube.

But in a time when you in your Mary-Sue hands have the gift of God to say who lives or dies of what evolution path comes next, you can become corrupt. This could sway you own ethical opinion of certain things look at the "greater" scheme.

You did not ask the Geth if they want to die after gaining self-awarness. You did not check to see if was okay to dominate the reapers. Just the same you never got consent to make everyone evolve or synthesize.

 

in short the choices are above  our pay grade... unless I was upgraded to God level pay  grade and did not know it.

In a way yes. They take you being a "normal" human being with extreme charisma and determination to stop the reapers. This has been the consitent throughout the entire series, to at the end flip your roles, changing the perspective of your character to an unknown and something uncomfortable to you. While I will commend them for trying something a bit unique, but it fell flat on the face hard.

To expand on this look at the endings to the first two games. They are very much in line with Shepard, where you either save the council or kill the council. It was explained why either needed to happen and you see the consequence.

In two it is the choice to destroy or keep the collector base. You have some explanation on why either needs to be done, and choose from there and gain some closure.

So coming into this we should expect a dues ex character or more an omniscent character to put us in a delema of choice. The problem I have with it, is they tried to make the god like person you and the kid, which breaks the immersion.

Think if your playing D&D as a PC you know it well and rolling it good, all the sudden the DM thrust the reins on you to finish the story without any background, notice or prep work. You are lost confused and angry at the sudden shift in tones. This is what I see in the end of ME3.

Modifié par Mylia Stenetch, 27 avril 2012 - 03:02 .

[liggy002]

Mass Effect was meant to be a celebration of diversity and working out all of our differences in pursuit of a common goal. It wasn't mean to make everyone the same thing and have no diversity.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Linksys17 wrote...

Wow eating a salad would make you a serial killer

ROTFLMFAO  Thank you, it's been one of those days.

Thank you, I knew there was a reason why Bioware *liked* this choice.

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

liggy002 wrote...

Mass Effect was meant to be a celebration of diversity and working out all of our differences in pursuit of a common goal. It wasn't mean to make everyone the same thing and have no diversity.

Yeah, apparently the thing that made organics unique and special and that was going to help them defeat the Reapers is the thing that Shepard willingly sacrifices in the so called best ending.

[Cobra's_back]

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

Mass Effect was meant to be a celebration of diversity and working out all of our differences in pursuit of a common goal. It wasn't mean to make everyone the same thing and have no diversity.

Yeah, apparently the thing that made organics unique and special and that was going to help them defeat the Reapers is the thing that Shepard willingly sacrifices in the so called best ending.

Very good point .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

im commander shep wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

To remove boundaries between species. No longer will words like "human" or "turian" or "geth" will set walls between us. Equality, peace.
I think it's beautiful.

If you blend a human and tech and a turian and tech they will still be different. The only issue that synthesis would possibly solve would be that synthetics maybe would wipe out all organics. (Still there is no reason to think that thsi would ever happen, just stupid star kid logic) All other galactic issues would still exist along with war etc.

There is also no reason why the new organic/synthetic galaxy would not just create pure synthetics again and oh no back to war.

You missed the point By an entire Parsec, there is NO ORGANICS left, nothing,nada, zilch, zip.

With this choice EVERYTHING is homogenized into some FREAKshow, incorporating every lifeform in the entire galaxy, from single-celled amoebas, paramecium, etc, all the way up to and including Gray Whales, or similar on other planets, not too mention of course all PLANT life, EVERYTHING that consumes something, is HUSKIFIED.

No farking THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

[OH-UP-THIS!]

ShepnTali wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Eain wrote...

viperabyss wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


It's a post describing his thoughts one how the endings weren't red, green and blue. The ending videos are labelled Red, Green and Blue. He dissappeared shortly there after.

Actually, I was referring to this one:

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.

And now people are angry at ME3.

This post bascially tells me, as a community manager who's supposed to understand fans' perspective, he utterly, utterly failed at his job.

Actually I called him out on that list and he pretty much immediately got uppity and told me he had no interest in debating anything. What a copout.

He called us basement dwellers in a tweet. Does my two hundred dollar a day minimum mean nothing? I don't even have to work eight hours to be paid.

I laughed. But not because I felt I was better. I laughed because the comment was so contradictory to what he should have been doing.

The employees are people too and deserve to be treated as such. But I won't sit and be insulted either.

Heh, Twitter appears to be more trouble than it's worth.

Ya Think?

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Rob_Nix wrote...

Gamble's answer seems like something an adult would quickly say to a curious child just to make them shut up and go away.

QFT^^^^

[-Skorpious-]

Synthesis is downright despicable on multiple levels -

Giving one man/woman absolute authority over the fate of trillions upon trillions of beings? Check. Reformatting all life in the galaxy without knowing the consequences beforehand? Check. Impeding natural selection, a process vital to a species survival and overall growth? Check. Removal of genetic diversity? Check.

It's really quite disgusting.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Wait........if we all have the same DNA.

Oh........God.

What happens when we reproduce?

And that's another issue with merge(I refuse to call it by that stupid silly name)

Cheetahs have this problem. They are all so inbred now one disease among them could decimate their population.

And Shepard's essence is what fuels the Synthesis.

Seriously? Was this just put on paper and given approval?

The failure of logic.......the stupidity.

Here's another thought for the fire.......................Meet my sister, the Hydrangea, or my little brother, the Oak tree

[d-boy15]

I have no problem if he just like synthasis choice but don't make it's better than other if
you just want players to talk about it. what the point of multi-ending if there is only one
ending that actually good? there is nothing to debate in that case.

Modifié par d-boy15, 27 avril 2012 - 04:19 .

[theflyingzamboni]

They aren't huskified, not really. Husks are made by extensively replacing organic parts with cybernetics/nanotech. It's a combination of what already exists. The synthesis ending says neither organic nor synthetic exists now, it's something completely different.

This is why it bothers me. Having studied my fair share of chemistry, the whole concept is nonsensical. Completely, entirely nonsensical. So, what? Are metals and all other elements now organic/inorganic synthesized hybrid atoms, thus meaning that they can't be used to create pure machines? Oh, wait, individual atoms are always inorganic. By definition. "Organic," as used by scientists, means a molecule that contains carbon (with a few exceptions). Something smaller than a molecule HAS to be inorganic, and a vast number of molecules are as well. Do atoms somehow take on this Synthesis property whenever they combine into molecules, now? Then even a nanobot would be "life."

And "a new DNA?" Really? Elements cannot have DNA, molecules cannot have DNA, because DNA is ****ing made of molecules! And unless the elements are fundamentally altered to have some bizarre, absurd characteristic of life, they can always be used to form something that has no DNA, is pure inorganic, a machine! You cannot have a universe where nothing is inorganic! That is so far beyond science that "suspension of disbelief" cannot possibly cover it! And if pure machines can exist, technological singularity can still happen, and everything that is not pure machine can still be destroyed.

They predicated their favorite ending on something that cannot happen by any stretch of the imagination. The gross violation of anything resembling science is so ridiculous that merely recalling it makes every scientific synapse in my brain scream in agony. The whole basis of Mass Effect's technology is already not in accordance with real science, but it has enough basis and explanation that I can happily accept it and believe everything based off of it. Synthesis goes so far beyond this that it should be categorized as a High Crime Against Science, tortured, and thrown out the airlock. It makes me want to grab the writers by the shoulders, shake them, and yell "What the **** were you thinking?! How could you ever consider this a good idea?! Did you actually think this through?!"

Alright. Rant over. I know it's nothing that everyone hasn't read before, but I had to let it out. Now I need to scrub my brain clean. It feels violated just talking about this.

EDIT: It occurs to me I should say something about the idea of software, as I'm sure they include this in their idea of synthetics. Software is run on hardware. It involves allowing/disallowing the flow of electricity, creating on and off states that cause functions to be performed. Simplistically speaking. As long as you have electricity (has this been "synthesized" to perhaps?) and something with proper circuitry, you can make pure software. And we've already established that that circuitry can be constructed from purely inorganic materials. So no, I will not accept an explanation of Synthesis based on "Oh, it's talking about software." That still doesn't solve the "pure synthetics can still be created" problem.

Modifié par Led Guardian, 27 avril 2012 - 04:54 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

nuculerman wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The destroy ending is the only ending that creates variables. Hudson has also said no more games after ME3.

HAHAHAHAHA.

Not sure what you mean about creating variables.  Every choice creates a solution we can't fully comprehend.

And Hudson has said no more ME games, not no more games set in the ME universe.  It's been wildly speculated a ME MMORPG is going to happen, and ME MP was one of the ways they planned on testing the gameplay.

Well if this gets approved, then this is where I get off, it's been real,...............strange.

[Taboo]

Ericus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

What Synthesis essentially proposes to me is a bastardized Utopia. One created by forcibly removing the things that make the species unique, their diversity. One person was given this choice.......ONE. No one asked the humans, the asari, the krogan, the geth about what THEY wanted. We are given topical information by a Star Child who proposes this is the only solution to this problem. Shepard has no option to even discuss anything. Are you serious Bioware? By removing the undesirable elements we can achieve peace? Do you understand the political undertones in this? 

It's more than just political undertones.  Honestly, does anyone really think that there would be no more war/conflict/violence in the world if everyone's skin colour turned green?  I mean, that'd make us all the same, right?  All the progress we've made to get past social segregation in the last 50-odd years proves that it's not such superficial differences that matter!  As virtually everyone else has said on this board, it's the deeper diversity in our beliefs and cultures that makes life so rich and meaningful.  Unfortunately, that also means there will always be periods of conflict between those beliefs.  In short, Synthesis doesn't solve any problems, it just wallpapers over them.

It's really, really bad when your fans can decipher the ending better than you can.

New Thread tommorow. Highlighting Bioware's artistic failings. 

[Ryoten]

Stanley Woo comes across as not a very friendly guy. Oh and being on topic, Synthesis is just terrible because i see it as giving the Reapers what they want. I believe this has already been said on here but meh.

[Taboo]

Ryoten wrote...

Stanley Woo comes across as not a very friendly guy. Oh and being on topic, Synthesis is just terrible because i see it as giving the Reapers what they want. I believe this has already been said on here but meh.

Get in line to voice your complaint. There are many others.

[KingKhan03]

Synthesis is beyond insane it's like playing the game saying no to Saren fighting the Reapers only to do what they wanted all along.

And don't give me that Shepard's synthesis is Different then Saren's that is complete b/s and there is no proof.

Modifié par KingKhan03, 27 avril 2012 - 04:48 .

[Taboo]

The awful thing is that we don't stand to lose anything in this.

If they fail........thousands of people will just get up and leave and take their respect with them. You can't buy that.

How awful.

[Seracen]

Synthesis may have made sense, in that there could have been a need for it, had the story been written a certain way.

HOWEVER...whoever was in charge of Legion ad EDI's character arcs did a darn good job, proving that synthetics have a soul, emotions, and a right to life in the ME Universe.

Therefore, Synthesis becomes repugnant, grossly inadequate. If we consider Geth-Quarian peace, this whole ending scenario becomes comically redundant (a point which has been made over and over again).

[OH-UP-THIS!]

MisterJB wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
We simply do not know what "Synthesis" entails.  We haven't been given nearly enough information on how it would work, what exactly would be synthesized, which entity is controlling the synthesis process, whether any elements of synthetic or organic life would be discarded in the process, etc.  There are simply far too many variables that we really cannot predict with any reasonable certainty what the ramifications would be.

Choosing Synthesis is nothing more than a gamble, a roll of the dice, in which you are hoping it will work out the way you want it to.

True. But I share the Catalyst's views and therefore, like the concept of Synthesis. As such, I am choosing to remain optimistic about the effects of it.
Hopefully, the Extended Cut will give us a clear view of what it is.

would you like some coffee, or tea perhaps to go along with your speech?

Here let me go kill your dearest cousin, to make that beverage for ya'll.

[Cypher_CS]

IRT OP:
 

Taboo-XX wrote...

Shepard has no option to even discuss anything. Are you serious Bioware? By removing the undesirable elements we can achieve peace? Do you understand the political undertones in this? 

While this sentence is very much a valid point to argue against the endings - it's an argument on mostly presentation and gameplay.
Again, very valid, but you do have some misconceptions of content.

Taboo-XX wrote...


One created by forcibly removing the things that make the species unique, their diversity. 

At what point in development was it deemed the best solution to rewrite the way the universe has functioned for billions and billions of years?

At what point was it deemed ethical for one person to decide what was best for the universe? To play god?

How do you merge synthetic and organics?

How do they reproduce now? Are the usual elements no longer favorable? Are sperm and eggs obsolete?

Why is Joker still limping? His condition doesn't seem to have benefitted by being turned into something else.

Plants are now shown sentient now too. Can I no longer eat vegetables? Fruit?

Do I have to eat? Sleep?

To what extreme is the synthesis? Do I still have free will?

To what degree are the original synthetics affected? Do they grow hair and real feelings? Skin?

Joker's hat is green as well. Are synthetic fibers affected as well? Can I no longer wear certain types of pants because they might find me in them obejctionable?

So many assumptions.
Why do you assume anything unique is removed?
Do you assume this "rewrite" of how everything works actually changes everything or just gives the option to combine things (like interspecies breeding, maybe)?
Do you not see that all three choices have you playing God, for better or worse? So that's a rather moot question.

Exactly, how do you merge? That's something they need to answer (read io9.com's article on XNA, btw, very interesting).
Why do you assume that natural selection and natural breeding is changed? That's never implied.
Again, they need to answer the previous question.
Why do you assume that this Synthesis suddenly made everything Cyborg? Why shouldn't he limp? Even if we assume that Synthesis allows something similar to how Geth and Quarians are cooperating on the Quarians' bad immune system, then there's still the issue of learning HOW to utilize the new... whatever.

Plant's are not shown sentient. They are only shown to have some of that... XNA, for lack of a better term.
Why do assume this means sensience?

Again, what exactly do you assume???

All your complaints basically say "I didn't get it, explain!"
Which is fine. But, it's different from all those assumptions

[Seracen]

BTW, the reason that Synthesis worked in Deus Ex, in my opinion: JC Denton is creating a new for of life, forging a new path for others to follow at their own discretion. Denton is becoming a shepard for those who come after, controlling and safe-guarding the flow of technology.

He isn't necessarily forcing his decision on everyone, not until the sequel. That's why he ends up a potential enemy in Deus Ex: Invisible War. You can't appy THOSE endings to ME3, unless you intend to have Shep be the villain in ME4, or whatever...

Oh man, I think I just threw up in my brain. How abhorrent would it be if they wnt that route? I mean, I can just see it as a giant Shyamalan "twist," to have Shep end up the bad guy in the next game. I can see it now, James Vega leading a battalion of different-but-homogenized soldiers, fighting against his former commander...oh the DRAMA....(puke)...

[bahamutomega]

Khevan77 wrote...

Even superficially Control and Synthesis make no sense. Look deeper, and the absurdity grows. It's like a kaleidoscope of absurdity.

kaleidescopes have more colors.  we only got green, blue and red.  and you have to include the red choice, because it is equally absurd.  just as blue removes the geth and EDI's free will (thus removing their chance for a future) and synthesis fundamentally alters them (somehow) and removes their chance for a future, red eliminaets them completely - no future for synthetics whatsoever.

[MoonLitStars]

I only have one word now in response to the trash I keep finding out about this company and its policies. Bethesda.
http://www.dishonored.com/
Their newest game promises different endings based on "choice". Funny that I trust them 10x more now than Bioware being that they actually respond to fan feed back and don't spit out this artistic integrity nonsense.

[Halo Quea]

Okay so last night my wife and two kids are all huddled around the vid screen, we can see everything as it happens thanks to Diana Allers' broadcast right from the bridge of the Normandy.

We're eager to know what's the progress of the battle when suddenly my wife clutches at her throat. She's trying desperately to breath. I immediately run to her side, the children are terrified. I catch her just as she's about to hit the floor. I begin performing CPR on her but nothing, her body remains limp and lifeless. Then my children begin convulsing as well. Oh my God what's happening?! My two children begin writhing on the floor in pain and gasping desperately for air. My hands trembling, I perform CPR on both of them going back and forth. My God I'm losing my family! What IS happening?!

Then.........I begin to feel a slight burning itch in my throat. It almost feels like clearing my throat with a cough would be enough when suddenly a sharp painful tingling starts moving through my hands, my legs, my neck and face. And then suddenly there's no air to breath, my heart beat is now slowing to a crawl and the world is going black.........

I don't know how much time has past, but I begin to feel the dark sleep that fell over me beginning to lift. I hear the familiar voice of my wife, but she sounds slightly strange. I open my eyes to see my beloved standing over me with intense cold glaring eyes of blue and white. Her once lovely skin is covered with harsh imprints of flashing circuitry. And then I see my children.....my babies. They look almost unreal, with the same cold electric eyes and imprints embedded deeply beneath their skin.

What happened I asked? My wife answers with a sad electric tone in her voice and with bitter knowledge. "The Reapers won she says.......the Reapers won"

My whole point is HOW is a galaxy of organic beings going to receive this sudden change? Will they understand the reasons behind it? Would people be able to read each others minds and gathering consensus like the Geth?

These are just some of the questions that have to be answered before you even get to the immorality of the choice of Synthesis. And this change would move through the entire galaxy. The Krogan who just overcame the Genophage will now lose their identity completely and permanently this time. The Asari were already on the verge of extinction, but whatever chance they had to rebuild their once proud society has been robbed from them. And the story will be the same for the Turian, the Drell the Elcor and the Volus.

And wasn't done to them by the enemy...........it was done to them by someone they thought was a friend.