897 réponses à ce sujet

[nicethugbert]

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Cypher_CS wrote...

Stop saying Synthesis is not discussed before.

Maybe your wild and out of the blue assumptions of what Synthesis is (no free will, cyborg everyone, all that other crap) are out of the blue, but Synthesis - and yes, maybe Synergy is a better word - is talked about in several places throughout the games.
Alluded to by Saren, discussed as applications in other species (Asari reproduction with other species is sort of like Synthesis - without your wild assumptions), talked about throughout the trilogy basically every time you talk about various synthetic augmentations and implants (Biotics, for example), discussed extensively through the Geth and more so with the Peace if you strike it between Geth and Quarian.

So it is NOT out of the blue.

The assumption that it is the only solution for peace is out of the blue.

I remember Saren telling Shepard organic could survive if they make themselves useful to the reapers. Organics will be saved if they serve the reapers.
 
Legion’s name means one of many. Synergy they all work together for a common goal. They share memories and reach group consensus. They are hooked up to a network. It looks like a socialist society. Decisions are based on a group consensus.
Are there other parts of the story that explain more?

When the Geth became alive, they became individuals.  So, to assume that a synthetic life form is Geth or Geth like as you describe is to assume falsly.  Also, organics do not become useful to the reapers nor do they serve them if Shepard chooses synthesis.  The reapers become alive, therefore, free from Starchilds control and no longer have any imperative to harvest the galaxy.

[nitefyre410]

Taboo-XX wrote...

tute wrote...

This is what happens when you have an Uwe Boll impersonator and a guy with an engineering degree that can debate with guys like michio kaku go behind closed doors and write the endings by themselves. If the Weekes "hacked" tweet is to be believed, then Hudson mind, if left unchecked, would go on a roll on deep topics like string theory and quantum physics. i can see him clearly thinking something like synthesis; Walters vision on his interview is more generic/mainstream with the normal.

Oh God. Uwe Boll.

Yeah, he made a comedy about Auschwitz. AUTSCHWITZ.

 

WHAT????!!! 

[Lincoln MuaDib]

Uwe Boll takes Video Games and creates the worst possible films out of them.

Check his Filmography and you'll see what I mean.

He's influencing ME3 endings now?

Eh-heh. That explains a lot.

[Cobra's_back]

[quote]nicethugbert wrote...

[quote]ghostbusters101 wrote...

[quote]Taboo-XX wrote...

[quote]Cypher_CS wrote...

Stop saying Synthesis is not discussed before.

Maybe your wild and out of the blue assumptions of what Synthesis is (no free will, cyborg everyone, all that other crap) are out of the blue, but Synthesis - and yes, maybe Synergy is a better word - is talked about in several places throughout the games.
Alluded to by Saren, discussed as applications in other species (Asari reproduction with other species is sort of like Synthesis - without your wild assumptions), talked about throughout the trilogy basically every time you talk about various synthetic augmentations and implants (Biotics, for example), discussed extensively through the Geth and more so with the Peace if you strike it between Geth and Quarian.

So it is NOT out of the blue.[/quote]


The assumption that it is the only solution for peace is out of the blue.

[/quote]


I remember Saren telling Shepard organic could survive if they make themselves useful to the reapers. Organics will be saved if they serve the reapers.
 
Legion’s name means one of many. Synergy they all work together for a common goal. They share memories and reach group consensus. They are hooked up to a network. It looks like a socialist society. Decisions are based on a group consensus.
Are there other parts of the story that explain more?[/quote]

When the Geth became alive, they became individuals.  So, to assume that a synthetic life form is Geth or Geth like as you describe is to assume falsly.  Also, organics do not become useful to the reapers nor do they serve them if Shepard chooses synthesis.  The reapers become alive, therefore, free from Starchilds control and no longer have any imperative to harvest the galaxy.


[/quote]


Thanks for your thoughtful input to my question.


I really don’t know what becomes of them in the future. It is very vague. I also haven’t seen proof in the story that supports synthesis is even needed. I’m not sure Star Child is correct about everything.

If you believe he is correct then I'm happy for you.

[nicethugbert]

[quote]ghostbusters101 wrote...

[quote]nicethugbert wrote...

[quote]ghostbusters101 wrote...

[quote]Taboo-XX wrote...

[quote]Cypher_CS wrote...

Stop saying Synthesis is not discussed before.

Maybe your wild and out of the blue assumptions of what Synthesis is (no free will, cyborg everyone, all that other crap) are out of the blue, but Synthesis - and yes, maybe Synergy is a better word - is talked about in several places throughout the games.
Alluded to by Saren, discussed as applications in other species (Asari reproduction with other species is sort of like Synthesis - without your wild assumptions), talked about throughout the trilogy basically every time you talk about various synthetic augmentations and implants (Biotics, for example), discussed extensively through the Geth and more so with the Peace if you strike it between Geth and Quarian.

So it is NOT out of the blue.[/quote]


The assumption that it is the only solution for peace is out of the blue.

[/quote]


I remember Saren telling Shepard organic could survive if they make themselves useful to the reapers. Organics will be saved if they serve the reapers.
 
Legion’s name means one of many. Synergy they all work together for a common goal. They share memories and reach group consensus. They are hooked up to a network. It looks like a socialist society. Decisions are based on a group consensus.
Are there other parts of the story that explain more?[/quote]

When the Geth became alive, they became individuals.  So, to assume that a synthetic life form is Geth or Geth like as you describe is to assume falsly.  Also, organics do not become useful to the reapers nor do they serve them if Shepard chooses synthesis.  The reapers become alive, therefore, free from Starchilds control and no longer have any imperative to harvest the galaxy.


[/quote]


Thanks for your thoughtful input to my question.


I really don’t know what becomes of them in the future. It is very vague. I also haven’t seen proof in the story that supports synthesis is even needed. I’m not sure Star Child is correct about everything.

If you believe he is correct then I'm happy for you.
[/quote]

Maybe the catalyst is correct in the sense that the reapers are winning the battle for earth and Shepard is stranded at the citadel bleeding to death and at the mercy of the catalyst.

[Taboo]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

tute wrote...

This is what happens when you have an Uwe Boll impersonator and a guy with an engineering degree that can debate with guys like michio kaku go behind closed doors and write the endings by themselves. If the Weekes "hacked" tweet is to be believed, then Hudson mind, if left unchecked, would go on a roll on deep topics like string theory and quantum physics. i can see him clearly thinking something like synthesis; Walters vision on his interview is more generic/mainstream with the normal.

Oh God. Uwe Boll.

Yeah, he made a comedy about Auschwitz. AUTSCHWITZ.

 

WHAT????!!! 

Problem?

Uwe Boll has no talent and yet still gets financing.

Mac Walters writing reminds me a bit him at times. The same type of gross immaturity. Not in an Autschwitz sense but just in how childish it is.

From what I have come to understand Mr. Walters has had no education in the field of writing?

That would explain this abomination known as Synthesis.

[Cypher_CS]

What would you consider as education in the field of writing?

[Taboo]

Cypher_CS wrote...

What would you consider as education in the field of writing?

Something along the lines of writing concrete projects before and in a large capacity. How many projects does Mr. Walters have under his belt? What type of education does he have? From what I understand he was hired by Bioware because he developed a module for Neverwinter Nights.

I'm bothered by the ending because it goes against what youre supposed to do with a story in quite a few regards. THAT they teach you in High School.

I am merely speculating.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 28 avril 2012 - 07:29 .

[Cypher_CS]

You haven't answered my question.

[Taboo]

I answered your question in my first sentence.


To elucidate: Work experience, college education. A fundamental knowledge of how a narrative is dissected and put back together.

I do not know who wrote the ending with the greatest influence but a lead writer usually has.......quite a bit of input.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 28 avril 2012 - 07:45 .

[Cypher_CS]

Yes, you did state something about experience (not the same as education, but okay) but then you go again asking "What type of education does he have?"

The question remains - what do you consider a suitable education?

[Taboo]

Cypher_CS wrote...

Yes, you did state something about experience (not the same as education, but okay) but then you go again asking "What type of education does he have?"

The question remains - what do you consider a suitable education?

A suitable amount of education depends on how you feel about schooling. Some people are good at what they do without it because they educate themselves with experience. 

I think a basic understanding of the psychological impacts of narrative is nescessary and I learned that in college and high school.

But it all depends on what you think of schooling. I am not aware of the state of the educational system in Canada but I am going to assume that it is better than the ****** poor quality in the United States.

An education can be just as much about work experience as it is about sitting on your butt listening to a professor talk for an hour.

[nicethugbert]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

If you helped the Geth achieve life, then it only stands to reason that you are in favor of synthethis, because if a pure synthetic can be alive, then so can a hybrid synthetic/organic.

What? That makes no sense. If you helped the geth, you believe they're already valid forms of life, and therefore synthesis is not only unnecessary but a violation of organic and synthetic alike.

I don't understand your point. The question is not whether a organic-synthetic hybrid would be alive. It obviously would be. The question is why is it necessary (according to our dealings with the geth, it isn't), and how do we justify forcing a fundamental change on all life in the galaxy without their consent, at the behest of the LEADER OF THE REAPERS?

If your Shepard supported the Geth achieving life then destroying The Reapers is difficult if not out of the question because it would destroy the Geth too, who clearly do not deserve to die.  Does sacrifice of the Geth to destroy the Reapers compare to sacrificing a Batarian star system to delay the Reapers?  That depends on the available choices.

The only two remaining choices are control or synthesis.

Shepard dies and he looses everything he has if he chooses to control The Reapers.  That implies that Shepard's control of The Reapers is in the form of a command or reprogramming.  Also, EDI is not present when the Normandy crash lands if Shepard controls The Reapers.  This implies that he controls all synthetics.  So, he has sacrificed all synthetics by taking free will away from them. 

Note, when The Catalyst tells Shepard that without The Cycle, synthetics will destroy organics, Shepard says, "Maybe."  The peace between The Quarians and The Geth provides hope that conflict can be averted but that same history shows conflict is possible.  That leaves the future uncertain.  Similarly, if Shepard controlls all synthetics via a one time command or reprogramming, future conflict between synthetics and organics is uncertain as the command or reprogramming may become altered or organics may intiate a war.

The only choice that leaves both life and free will preserved is Synthesis, although an initial sacrifice must be made.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 28 avril 2012 - 08:07 .

[Taboo]

nicethugbert wrote...

The only choice that leaves both life and free will preserved is Synthesis, although a sacrifice must be made.

At the cost of what makes them.........them.

Can you imagine playing god and making a descision for EVERYONE?

Unethical. Immoral. Repugnant.

[nicethugbert]

Taboo-XX wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

The only choice that leaves both life and free will preserved is Synthesis, although a sacrifice must be made.

At the cost of what makes them.........them.

Can you imagine playing god and making a descision for EVERYONE?

Unethical. Immoral. Repugnant.

I do not agree.  I see nothing in the game that gives the impression that personality is altered.  Your DNA is merely a mix of organic and synthetic.  It's just a hardware upgrade.

[Taboo]

nicethugbert wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

The only choice that leaves both life and free will preserved is Synthesis, although a sacrifice must be made.

At the cost of what makes them.........them.

Can you imagine playing god and making a descision for EVERYONE?

Unethical. Immoral. Repugnant.

I do not agree.  I see nothing in the game that gives the impression that personality is altered.  Your DNA is merely a mix of organic and synthetic.  It's just a hardware upgrade.

No. The Catalyst says a new lifeform is created. There are no longer humans. There are no longer asari. There are no longer Turians.

It removes the undesirable parts in both species and combines them into a new whole.

Do you understand the political implications in that?

[fluffywalrus]

Taboo-XX wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

The only choice that leaves both life and free will preserved is Synthesis, although a sacrifice must be made.

At the cost of what makes them.........them.

Can you imagine playing god and making a descision for EVERYONE?

Unethical. Immoral. Repugnant.

I think Bioware is, with synthesis, trying to get across that you're solving the organic vs synthetics conflict that somehow resulted in the Reapers being a good idea.

So you add another basic building block to the foundation of all species, like DNA I guess, or whatnot, and that shared component solves the conflict. It need not affect any structural or proccess-related framework in the Geth, or affect the evolutional process humans/turians/asari/etc. can still follow. It gets rid of the dichotomy, nothing elsse that's major.

Of course, if this was what Bioware was aiming for, they lacked the foresight to see that gamers would read into it a lot more, and use prior examples from the series, and from other pop culture references, to fill the blanks.

I personally still think it's a dumb and pretty vile option, but the Star Child AI is there because of the organic/synthetic conflict, and only because of that conflict. By selecting those three options, you're solving that conflict in some form. Nothing else. Which is a huge design issue because it's perpendicular to what the player has experienced through the series, and by association it attaches consequences related to the player's experiences to an entirely separate conflict. And gives you few options, and little context.

Modifié par fluffywalrus, 28 avril 2012 - 08:21 .

[Taboo]

It's an entirely new species.

Bioware has asked me to believe that the best solution to ONE theme in the story is to solve it by removing the undesirable parts in a species.

Furthermore the Star Child present it as the best choice..........with no evidence.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 28 avril 2012 - 08:25 .

[fluffywalrus]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's an entirely new species.

Bioware has asked me to believe that the best solution to ONE theme in the story is to solve it by removing the undesirable parts in a species.

Furthermore the Star Child present it as the best choice..........with no evidence.

It's true, the lack of evidence, discussion of consequences....it really makes synthesis nonsensical.

But I don't believe it creates a new species. The AI says it makes a new form of DNA, or framework. Kind of like how some species are carbon-based life forms. There are millions of different species sharing a similar foundational building block.
As the AI says, it "will combine all organic and synthetic life into a new framework, a new DNA.". That's really all the information he gives. That's not a new species, it's a new type of life, But everyone's bodies are the same, so species differentiation must still exist. Makes more sense that it's just a structural component of what life is. Allowing biodiversity while giving every form of life a similar characteristic that it's built on.

Of course, this doesn't solve the organic vs synthetic conflict, because some forms are more organic or more synthetic. It still doesn't eliminate the fact that synthetic creatures(or at least, mostly synthetic, now) could still be created, and would still know their purpose, while mostly organics would still wander the stars in search of their individualized purpose.

All in all, it's a crap option. Just saying, it's not making a new species. it's adding a blue building block to the already present red, or green, or brown, or purple ones that already existed.

[Taboo]

You change the entire combination when you mess with the code of DNA itself. Adding an "S" to the GTCA it's coding changes the species.

SGTCA is a new DNA type.

It's a new form of life.

We still don't even know if synthetics have DNA.

No one did any research, nor did they appear to take high school biology.

Who derped?

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 28 avril 2012 - 08:52 .

[MakeMineMako]

nicethugbert wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

The only choice that leaves both life and free will preserved is Synthesis, although a sacrifice must be made.

At the cost of what makes them.........them.

Can you imagine playing god and making a descision for EVERYONE?

Unethical. Immoral. Repugnant.

I do not agree.  I see nothing in the game that gives the impression that personality is altered.  Your DNA is merely a mix of organic and synthetic.  It's just a hardware upgrade.

Regardless, it's still forced on everybody. It's a question of free will and individual choice in their own destiny. Something "Synthesis" takes away.

It's also a violation of sorts.

It's just as repugnant and has the same totalitarian feel as "Control" and "Destroy".

Modifié par MakeMineMako, 28 avril 2012 - 08:55 .

[Shaigunjoe]

fluffywalrus wrote...

It's true, the lack of evidence, discussion of consequences....it really makes synthesis nonsensical.

But I don't believe it creates a new species. The AI says it makes a new form of DNA, or framework. Kind of like how some species are carbon-based life forms. There are millions of different species sharing a similar foundational building block.
As the AI says, it "will combine all organic and synthetic life into a new framework, a new DNA.". That's really all the information he gives. That's not a new species, it's a new type of life, But everyone's bodies are the same, so species differentiation must still exist. Makes more sense that it's just a structural component of what life is. Allowing biodiversity while giving every form of life a similar characteristic that it's built on.

Of course, this doesn't solve the organic vs synthetic conflict, because some forms are more organic or more synthetic. It still doesn't eliminate the fact that synthetic creatures(or at least, mostly synthetic, now) could still be created, and would still know their purpose, while mostly organics would still wander the stars in search of their individualized purpose.

All in all, it's a crap option. Just saying, it's not making a new species. it's adding a blue building block to the already present red, or green, or brown, or purple ones that already existed.

Nice points!

It definitly is muddled in the execution, especially in the nitty gritty detalis of how synthesis works, but I think the meaning of it was clear and two fold.

1.  The way to solve the creators and createe purposed eventual conflict is to remove that relatoinship, synthetics will no longer need to be created as synthetics have been in the passed, thus no longer being synthetics at all really.

2.  The way to solve the main versus machine problem is to allow machines to have the same benifit/oppurtunity of cultural diversity that organics enjoy, and allow organics to adapt to the enviornments without relaying on machines.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 28 avril 2012 - 08:58 .

[Taboo]

GTCA coding is the basic building block of DNA.

You change the coding by an "S" you have a new type of DNA. SGTCA

LOL WUT?

[Fingertrip]

It's a game,fiction. It's not real.

Some ppl. )