416 réponses à ce sujet

[BD Manchild]

Zaraki kanzaki wrote...

as i continue to repeat, if you're a lore-stubborn you are able to avoid this thread

No. No, no, no. You do NOT get off that easily. You posted this thread in a public forum, where everyone has the right to express their opinion. Nobody has any right to say that only certain people can post in any thread. That is unbelievably disrespectful to the very idea of these forums. You don't own them; you have no right to dictate who can and can't post in any of your threads.

[Blest HR]

agreed should bring him to mutiplayer great character in single player.

Should be able to dodge as well or I be very disappointed and have dark channel as his ability.

[E71]

No. Very bad idea. I can't believe we have to take the time to state the obvious but Protheans are extinct, please don't try and warp the story.

Also, asking us not to comment if we disagree with the idea would make this thread look like everyone is in favor of having an extinct race brought back to life to fight in multiplayer.

[Rizzo19]

Prothean class would be cool.

[Wesus]

Read my arguements on a few pages b4 this one and then complain after you've read the facts.

[Blest HR]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Erm...doesn't this not make sense lore-wise though?

Since Javik's the only Prothean alive, and Multiplayer has this big hubbub about being intrinsically linked to Single Player...

well there was only 1 marcus in gears of war but you coud all still run round as him. So no reason they can't let you have javik in mutiplayer on this game.

[Zaraki kanzaki]

Blest HR wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Erm...doesn't this not make sense lore-wise though?

Since Javik's the only Prothean alive, and Multiplayer has this big hubbub about being intrinsically linked to Single Player...

well there was only 1 marcus in gears of war but you coud all still run round as him. So no reason they can't let you have javik in mutiplayer on this game.

finally! thank you for support

[The Prime Magus]

Lore is a perfectly good argument. MP is several things, and one of them is tied to a sense of continuity with the Mass Effect universe. You go significantly more out of your way to try and disengage this aspect of the MP experience than to try affirm it. The most tired argument is about Sheperd's decisions and the ending of the game meaning the end of multiplayer, but this is silly and intentionally myopic. We play WWII games still today, but it certainly isn't 1942 anymore. Many people beat ME3...and are still playing ME1. Where is this ridiculous idea of strict and enforced chronology coming from? It is the worst argument made in this endeavor, and its only strength is trying to claim that building galactic control after beating the game is pointless. Even this is stilted and irrelevant, a whole can of worms in its own right about the relevance of the GP, but this feature is only one small aspect of the MP and its only purpose is to impact the SP, not the MP. Ti that extent, the MP exists in, and gets a portion of its charm from, the setting and narrative of the ME universe. You can imagine your team as an elite N7 ops and allies running detailed missions with more or less your standard video game allowances and abstractions. Your characters still fit and aren't very large stretches to make fit, and it imparts a sense of purpose and even some minor elements of narrative. Without that it's just an ordinary death match, which isn't what was intended nor what was delivered here. I'm not saying every game is a story or isn't gamey, but it still relies on that sort of background narrative to be what it is. You can certainly ignore it, but the same cannot be said of attempting to ignore it when it is broken.

Others say that lore can be rewritten, and while this is technically true, this line of thought also greatly undermines the narrative integrity of an established universe. More specifically, the return of the Prothean race flies completely in the face of the tragedy and mystique that makes their entry in the ME universe what it is. Javik was already a very hard reach to introduce and still have any attempt at maintaining this, but his presence as "the last Prothean" is part of that tragic narrative, part of the Prothean's place in that lore and just close enough of a stretch to be debatable if it broke it or not. An entire unit of more Protheans will unarguably break that, cheapening everything. And before the self-ascribed lightning wit claim the lore is already cheapened and broken so why not break it more; then why would you want to break it even more and lose anything that is good in this series? A herd of new Protheans, no matter how you try and reintroduce them(and one would hope for at least more effort in an attempt than "cloning for the heck of it"), is going to stretch that gap beyond reconciliation. It makes no sense and threatens to do more harm, cheapening the very race people want to play as, then it would do good.

[Zaraki kanzaki]

BD Manchild wrote...

Zaraki kanzaki wrote...

as i continue to repeat, if you're a lore-stubborn you are able to avoid this thread

No. No, no, no. You do NOT get off that easily. You posted this thread in a public forum, where everyone has the right to express their opinion. Nobody has any right to say that only certain people can post in any thread. That is unbelievably disrespectful to the very idea of these forums. You don't own them; you have no right to dictate who can and can't post in any of your threads.

i don't want to dictate anything, just say to people that is not agree and that conyinues to repeate the same thing, as i do, but i don't go to other against-prothean thread to say my opinion, i avoid them

[BD Manchild]

The Prime Magus wrote...

Lore is a perfectly good argument. MP is several things, and one of them is tied to a sense of continuity with the Mass Effect universe. You go significantly more out of your way to try and disengage this aspect of the MP experience than to try affirm it. The most tired argument is about Sheperd's decisions and the ending of the game meaning the end of multiplayer, but this is silly and intentionally myopic. We play WWII games still today, but it certainly isn't 1942 anymore. Many people beat ME3...and are still playing ME1. Where is this ridiculous idea of strict and enforced chronology coming from? It is the worst argument made in this endeavor, and its only strength is trying to claim that building galactic control after beating the game is pointless. Even this is stilted and irrelevant, a whole can of worms in its own right about the relevance of the GP, but this feature is only one small aspect of the MP and its only purpose is to impact the SP, not the MP. Ti that extent, the MP exists in, and gets a portion of its charm from, the setting and narrative of the ME universe. You can imagine your team as an elite N7 ops and allies running detailed missions with more or less your standard video game allowances and abstractions. Your characters still fit and aren't very large stretches to make fit, and it imparts a sense of purpose and even some minor elements of narrative. Without that it's just an ordinary death match, which isn't what was intended nor what was delivered here. I'm not saying every game is a story or isn't gamey, but it still relies on that sort of background narrative to be what it is. You can certainly ignore it, but the same cannot be said of attempting to ignore it when it is broken.

Others say that lore can be rewritten, and while this is technically true, this line of thought also greatly undermines the narrative integrity of an established universe. More specifically, the return of the Prothean race flies completely in the face of the tragedy and mystique that makes their entry in the ME universe what it is. Javik was already a very hard reach to introduce and still have any attempt at maintaining this, but his presence as "the last Prothean" is part of that tragic narrative, part of the Prothean's place in that lore and just close enough of a stretch to be debatable if it broke it or not. An entire unit of more Protheans will unarguably break that, cheapening everything. And before the self-ascribed lightning wit claim the lore is already cheapened and broken so why not break it more; then why would you want to break it even more and lose anything that is good in this series? A herd of new Protheans, no matter how you try and reintroduce them(and one would hope for at least more effort in an attempt than "cloning for the heck of it"), is going to stretch that gap beyond reconciliation. It makes no sense and threatens to do more harm, cheapening the very race people want to play as, then it would do good.

Very eloquently put and I agree wholeheartedly.

Modifié par BD Manchild, 01 mai 2012 - 07:01 .

[Wesus]

I love how people like prime magus write a wall but they do not read any good arguements done by several others and me in this thread.

[Zaraki kanzaki]

Wesus wrote...

I love how people like prime magus write a wall but they do not read any good arguements done by several others and me in this thread.

stubborn-lore-addicts

[BD Manchild]

Wesus wrote...

I love how people like prime magus write a wall but they do not read any good arguements done by several others and me in this thread.

They're not good arguments. At all. He also addressed them if you bothered to read his "wall of text".

Zaraki kanzaki wrote...
i don't want to dictate
anything, just say to people that is not agree and that conyinues to
repeate the same thing, as i do, but i don't go to other
against-prothean thread to say my opinion, i avoid them

So because you don't express your opinion in other threads you don't want people to express their opinion in yours? I'm sorry, but I'm really failing to see the point you're trying to make with that argument.

Also, what against-Prothean threads? There aren't any to my knowledge. The subject of Protheans in MP wasn't broached until you brought it up, as far as I can recall.

Zaraki kanzaki wrote...

stubborn-lore-addicts

And it's attitudes like that are what utterly kill your argument. If you can't think of anything other than insulting all those who disagree with your idea, then you really are beyond hope.

Modifié par BD Manchild, 01 mai 2012 - 07:10 .

[Tangster]

BD Manchild wrote...
Also, what against-Prothean threads? There aren't any to my knowledge. The subject of Protheans in MP wasn't broached until you brought it up, as far as I can recall.

http://social.biowar.../index/11192465 

[Zaraki kanzaki]

BD Manchild wrote...

Zaraki kanzaki wrote...
i don't want to dictate
anything, just say to people that is not agree and that conyinues to
repeate the same thing, as i do, but i don't go to other
against-prothean thread to say my opinion, i avoid them

So because you don't express your opinion in other threads you don't want people to express their opinion in yours? I'm sorry, but I'm really failing to see the point you're trying to make with that argument.

Also, what against-Prothean threads? There aren't any to my knowledge. The subject of Protheans in MP wasn't broached until you brought it up, as far as I can recall.

there's a thread made a month ago agaist prothean in MP and i didn't post anything because i respect their opinion

[Mr.Burke]

Zaraki kanzaki wrote...

Mr.Burke wrote...

In my opinion, that ending was not really canon anyway so go right ahead and throw whatever crap in the game that your heart desires. Hell, lets throw in some collectors while we're at it.

as i continue to repeat, if you're a lore-stubborn you are able to avoid this thread

I can see how you thought I was in favor of not having the protheans in dlc, but I was actually agreeing that we should be able to have any character regardless of being canon or not.  At this point I don't even care about protheans or any other character not making any sense in multiplayer, we should just get something that will be fun to play as. 

[BD Manchild]

Tangster wrote...

BD Manchild wrote...
Also, what against-Prothean threads? There aren't any to my knowledge. The subject of Protheans in MP wasn't broached until you brought it up, as far as I can recall.

http://social.biowar.../index/11192465 

Okay, my mistake, and I apologise.

Zaraki kanzaki wrote...

there's a thread made a month ago agaist prothean in MP and i didn't post anything because i respect their opinion

There is such a thing as being able to respect someone's opinion and express why in an articulate manner. So far I haven't seen any convincing arguments for Protheans being MP characters; in fact, most of what I've seen are insults against people who disagree with the idea.

Modifié par BD Manchild, 01 mai 2012 - 07:16 .

[NinthGeorgesw]

You can add Protheans and keep multiplayer true to lore, why does nobody understand that?

[Wesus]

They are well thought arguements, THE only thing that you do is blab bull**** vs THE OP

Please leave this thread if you dont agree with the thread and if your input has nihil value.

Hè didnt say Jack sh*t about my arguements all hè says is bullcrap about javik and that MP should be lore intact. Even LotR games are not lore correct look @ f*cking Conquest.

Halo
GoW
CoD
WoW PVP (makes logical sense to fight alliance vs alliance in an arena in orgrimmar...)
LoL
DotA

Can make a list even bigger than this.

No game with MP is correct to lore in SP.

Will it cheap javik if he gets cloned, no.
Will it cheap javik if we find other cryo chambers, no.

[Zaraki kanzaki]

BD Manchild wrote...

Tangster wrote...

BD Manchild wrote...
Also, what against-Prothean threads? There aren't any to my knowledge. The subject of Protheans in MP wasn't broached until you brought it up, as far as I can recall.

http://social.biowar.../index/11192465 

Okay, my mistake, and I apologise.

no problem bro:lol:

[Havocmasta]

Wesus wrote...

They are well thought arguements, THE only thing that you do is blab bull**** vs THE OP

Please leave this thread if you dont agree with the thread and if your input has nihil value.

Hè didnt say Jack sh*t about my arguements all hè says is bullcrap about javik and that MP should be lore intact. Even LotR games are not lore correct look @ f*cking Conquest.

Halo
GoW
CoD
WoW PVP (makes logical sense to fight alliance vs alliance in an arena in orgrimmar...)
LoL
DotA

Can make a list even bigger than this.

No game with MP is correct to lore in SP.

Will it cheap javik if he gets cloned, no.
Will it cheap javik if we find other cryo chambers, no.

Someone is upset no one takes him seriously.

[Zaraki kanzaki]

Wesus wrote...

They are well thought arguements, THE only thing that you do is blab bull**** vs THE OP

Please leave this thread if you dont agree with the thread and if your input has nihil value.

Hè didnt say Jack sh*t about my arguements all hè says is bullcrap about javik and that MP should be lore intact. Even LotR games are not lore correct look @ f*cking Conquest.

Halo
GoW
CoD
WoW PVP (makes logical sense to fight alliance vs alliance in an arena in orgrimmar...)
LoL
DotA

Can make a list even bigger than this.

No game with MP is correct to lore in SP.

Will it cheap javik if he gets cloned, no.
Will it cheap javik if we find other cryo chambers, no.

i'm starting to think that people want to play MP for not long time, they love the integrity between
 MP and SP, and even though in gow3 there's raam in MP, no one is against it, why BW fan are so stubborn?

[uzivatel]

Blest HR wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Erm...doesn't this not make sense lore-wise though?

Since Javik's the only Prothean alive, and Multiplayer has this big hubbub about being intrinsically linked to Single Player...

well there was only 1 marcus in gears of war but you coud all still run round as him. So no reason they can't let you have javik in mutiplayer on this game.

I do admit I did not play GeoW past the first one (rather surprising since I enjoyed the first one, should buy 2 and 3 some day), but I believe GeoW is in fact not RPG and the MP is completely separate component with no connection to the SP.

[BD Manchild]

NinthGeorgesw wrote...

You can add Protheans and keep multiplayer true to lore, why does nobody understand that?

Not without radically changing the established lore which, as I and others are more than a little inclined to argue, would cheapen it completely. Whatever Bioware could concoct to resurrect the Protheans would be an unbelievably cheap cop-out.

Modifié par BD Manchild, 01 mai 2012 - 07:20 .

[born2beagator]

Its multiplayer. I don't care what the lore nerds want, never got the rage over fictional lore anyways.

give me something that will add to the multiplayer experience.